Winnipeg SCUM Cops take FN Man on a Starlght Cruise

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milo204

the problem is police are around to defend the state and it's institutions first, the rich people and their property second, and the rest of us come in a distant third or worse.  The cops are not meant to be democratic anymore than someone working for any large powerful institution.  They are rule enforcers, period.

The only way to make the cops impact less severe is to change the rules they enforce and the culture they enforce them in, and having citizen oversight of their actions to keep them in line.

The only way it seems to completely get rid of police abuse is to get rid of the state apparatus and institutions that give them the power they need to abuse people.

The man point about this recent case involving Maud to me is that along with the many real complaints, there are many faked and over exaggerated ones as well (as demonstrated by the number of people filing complaints and willing to follow through on them), and that pretty much ensures the status quo continues since this situation provides exactly the perspective and cover cops want: i.e. most claims are bogus, the real ones are dealt with promptly and effectively....which we all know is bullshit.

Aristotleded24

milo204 wrote:
The man point about this recent case involving Maud to me is that along with the many real complaints, there are many faked and over exaggerated ones as well (as demonstrated by the number of people filing complaints and willing to follow through on them), and that pretty much ensures the status quo continues since this situation provides exactly the perspective and cover cops want: i.e. most claims are bogus, the real ones are dealt with promptly and effectively....which we all know is bullshit.

As I said, it's probably the case that the vast majority of complaints filed against police are bogus. The problem is that people who are abused by the police generally don't have the confidence to file formal complaints.

Stargazer

Aristotleded24 wrote:

As I said, it's probably the case that the vast majority of complaints filed against police are bogus. The problem is that people who are abused by the police generally don't have the confidence to file formal complaints.

 

Where to begin, but this (above) is especially problematic. First, please site any statistic anywhere that proves the majority of complaints against the police are "bogus". 

Your other assertion, that people don't file complaints because they lack confidence is, well, seriously, a really really bad analysis of an extremely complex issue.  Lack ot resources (both financial and otherwise), the very real threat of police retaliation, the time and emotional expense of a case that very very rarely goes the way of the complaintant...not too many people are going to do this just for kicks, and certainly not for failed lawsuits.

 

 

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

milo204 wrote:

the problem is police are around to defend the state and it's institutions first, the rich people and their property second, and the rest of us come in a distant third or worse.  The cops are not meant to be democratic anymore than someone working for any large powerful institution.  They are rule enforcers, period.

The only way to make the cops impact less severe is to change the rules they enforce and the culture they enforce them in, and having citizen oversight of their actions to keep them in line.

The only way it seems to completely get rid of police abuse is to get rid of the state apparatus and institutions that give them the power they need to abuse people.

The man point about this recent case involving Maud to me is that along with the many real complaints, there are many faked and over exaggerated ones as well (as demonstrated by the number of people filing complaints and willing to follow through on them), and that pretty much ensures the status quo continues since this situation provides exactly the perspective and cover cops want: i.e. most claims are bogus, the real ones are dealt with promptly and effectively....which we all know is bullshit.

 

Since asses are in Vogue, can we do something about this one?  Milo, you do some good things here but tear it all apart with this.  I've bolded what I object to.  Like Stargazer asked, the onus is on you to substantiate your claim.

 

It really must be a lunar moon.  I don't know whether to "flag as offensive" or "I give up"... 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

This is real weird.  To those that celebrate and get the time off, Happy Holidays.   Remember the forum you're in.  Fuck all you scum that dare denigrate this First Nation space.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Especdially at this time of year for this white, formerly christian dude.  You're a disgrace to my race, no christian, just pitchin your junk.   I'll listen to a little funk you little punk.  You'll celebrate your achievement versus my grievance and call it meritocracy versus equality.  You'll carry on in your small minded world unaware of the politics of your actions.  You'll refuse to see the factions bringing light to truth.  You act so loose.  I'm hunting for moose.  What the fuck you gonna do about that? 

 

Throw some more thinly veiled diatribes around?  That won't go down, clown.  Wake the fuck up and do what is right.  Y'all seem to have some judeo-christian values?  What then are you all about?  Your clout?  Your intelligence amazes me and fazes me at the same time.   How can you be so sublime?  It's a crime. 

 

Defend the PoPo all you want, I ain't a GoGo dancer.  I'll call them SCUM until they become what they were meant to be.  Upon Stargazer's recommendations.  I ain't no expert but some of this commentary is fucked up.  Pardon my language.

 

Solidarity.

 

RevolutionPlease

al-Qa'bong

nevermind

milo204

one line you don't like and i'm an ass/scum, and all that other stuff too?  c'mon, whose being disrespectful here?

what i'm saying is that when someone lies and makes an easily refuted claim like Maud did, not only does it trivialize the people who actually DID have to experience that, but it makes it that much harder for the next person who does to come out as well (making it easier for the cops to hurt people).  The fact some people lie about it, for those reasons, is wrong and i think should be denounced.  If you think that's defending the police, i think you're way off.

 

milo204

...and while we're freestylin'

 

" i catch heat when i speak my mind, people get up on me fast, like a butcher kill swine/ you wanna slag me, snitch or flag me, my pitch be perfect like "parole granted"/ i'm state smashin'...  they gate crashin'-no asking/ roll up on ya like a pig all tucked in a blanket/ a pistol to your head if they catch you nappin'/thats the po-lice action i'm tryin' to vanquish/  call my values judeo-christian, while you tha one heading up an inquisition/ So listen/ forget about scrappin'/ we gotta show love so the struggle is strong and long lasting/ and one last thing before i kick the breeze/ when you start a revolution, ya don't say "please."

Stargazer

I think it's a dumb assertion milo, and one you not only can't back up, but one in which you continue to ply.

 

Either throw up the stats that show that most complaints are bogus or apologize for your sloppy analysis.

 

No wonder people get pissed. You types play fast and loose with the solidarity (and the facts).

 

Can it be seen as pro police? Absolutely, and it has as much right to stand unchallenged as that horrible labour thread where everyone dumped on workers for supposedly being lazy and taking days off cause they are lazy workers. Meaning none.

 

Your little rap afterwards, while showing how manly you are for not backing down on your erroneous and pro-police assertion, also makes you look a bit like a fool caught with his pants down. The rappers want their lyrics back for gross abuse of context.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Maysie Maysie's picture

RevolutionPlease, I hear your anger and frustration with the issues in this forum, but you need to dial it back. No personal attacks on milo or anyone else you disagree with.

Everyone, please remember that this is the Aboriginal issues forum.

And also to everyone: If you, personally, are not Aboriginal, to try to be aware of your subject position when engaging in these issues. However much we non-Aboriginal folks think we get it, we have tons of internalized shit to unpack.

PraetorianFour

RevolutionPlease wrote:

 I'll call them SCUM until they become what they were meant to be.

 

So your way to build bridges, educate and approach community policing is to call police scum repeatedly until they change?

 

Good idea.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

It was a bit rhetorical P4 but like I said, dialogue has gotten nowhere in the last century, resistance has.  Shame works better on folks sometimes.

 

Apologies milo204, Happy Holidays.

Stargazer

P4, there is room for both anger (expressed and open anger) and discussion. Anger is a justified response to many who feel paralysed and hopeless to stop these incidents from occurring. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being angry, and expressing anger. It's called being human and while you may not think it is civil, many things in life do not call for civility.

It is a sad state of affairs when threads are consistently hijacked because people are expressing justifiable anger. Scum is and can be an accurate adverb for the institution known as the police. Here is a copy of the Charter. Perhaps if you care to you can justify the blatant abuse of the Charter, by the police. But I think you are a decent person, and would not deny that the police are not our friends.

http://www.efc.ca/pages/law/charter/charter.text.html

Pay special attention to the Legal Rights section, and notice how many of ours are being breached every single day. In particular by agents of the state who are paid to pepper spray, taser, kettle and otherwise abuse regular citizens, who are practising their Charter rights. I haven't even touched on racial profiling and racism within the police. The latter mainly because you are barred from questioning the police on racial discrimination.

Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:

(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Bacchus

Well anger will screw up (c) everytime Stargazer. The minute you throw a rock, overturn a mailbox, smash a window etc, it is no longer 'peaceful assembly' and in they move, nightsticks a swingin

Stargazer

I'm not referring to violence. See how easy you did the leap though Bacchus, from justified anger straight into violence. I know I sometimes find I've done something similar, then I really need to examine why that is so. You'll notice though, no where did I or anyone else in this thread advocate violence. Not once. Something for you to think about.

 

Why does anger immediately freak people out and become immediately associated with violence, especially when that anger comes from women, POC, 'Nish people...?

 

Anger from the Others scares people.

 

 

Bacchus

Its not really a jump, when you talk about anger then the right to peaceful assembly.  When Im angry and protesting, I often feel like I have to DO something to demonstrate my anger and sometimes feel like shouting it or waving a sign doesnt underscore it enough.

And its not really the 'others' that I was thinking of. I was actually thinking of the WASP protesers at the G20 torching cop cars and smashing windows

Bacchus

And dont get me wrong, I mean it in the context of the police(or those controlling them) waiting for their 'excuse' to pounce. The G20 is an apt example since the people they chose to pounce on were not the same as those torching and smashing the previous day

Stargazer

I am positive that the police didn't need provocation to do what they did during the G20. They knew this, thus the abandoned police cars, lack of name tags, and general police abuse of rights that occurred. It wouldn't have made any difference if we saw no "violent protesters". The police would have been kettling, bashing heads, throwing journalists in jail, tearing limbs off amputees, and on and on.... otherwise defending the rich.

 

The anger I was speaking of is the justifiable anger of those who have experienced police abuse.

Stargazer

oops double post

milo204

@revolutionplease, apology accepted graciously.

@stargazer, i did not state that "most" complaints were false here, go back and read what i actually said, that was aristotle in another post.  I said i think there are probably "many".  I'm not stating a hard fact or stat, just speaking from my experience of reading stories like maud's over the past 20 years.  i could be wrong, maybe it's just "some" or "a few"...my point is there are enough false complaints to give the media a chance to exploit the crap out of it (like they are now doing in the winnipeg press) to sow doubt in the minds of people that police brutality is a serious ongoing issue, which ensures it is going to continue.

I fail to understand how that is "pro police"...isn't it pro police to play down/ignore the significance of false claims like mauds which end up giving cops cover to beat people?  Already the media is taking a lashing (including aptn) for focusing on this and taking the complaint seriously (as I did here on rabble) before it was proven false.  I've experienced police harassment myself, and have friends who have been victims of beatings and other violence at the hands of winnipeg police.  We are angry at police, but we're also angry with cases like maud's, and i don't see any contradiction there.

Also, since when are you the hip hop authority in here? "manly"? "abuse of context"? and i'm a fool.  Perhaps if you respond in rhyme i might see where you're coming from.....

Stargazer

Since you failed to understand my entire last few posts, I doubt a duel with rap is going to prove much of anything.

Aristotleded24

Bacchus wrote:
Well anger will screw up (c) everytime Stargazer. The minute you throw a rock, overturn a mailbox, smash a window etc, it is no longer 'peaceful assembly' and in they move, nightsticks a swingin

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=St1-WTc1kow]Sure, Bacchus[/url]

Bacchus

Nobody believes its always police Provocateurs everytime Aristotle

Aristotleded24

Even assuming that there were no provocateurs at the G-20 in Toronto, vandals did a great deal of damage for quite a long time without the police intervening, and that happened in clear view for everyone to see. It's not just activist types who are unhappy with the way the police (mis)handled the G-20.

Bacchus

I dont disagree but I also think that they (the police) laid out the bait and they (the activists, black bloc etc) took it most eagerly.

 

Idiots on both sides

Aristotleded24

How did the activists take the bait? In the Montebello case, they clearly refused to take the police bait. In Toronto, the police clearly abdicated their responsibility to protect the affected properties. The police are going to do whatever they are going to do, there's no point pretending "activists" have any control over them.

Bacchus

They took the bait by burning the cop car. And really it was only bait in that they didnt guard it like anyone wouldnt stand guard over their car all the time.  There were no plnated activists by cops at the WTO in Seattle yet look what happened.

The activists are going to do whatever they are going to do, there's no point pretending "cops" have any control over them.

Bacchus

I was there at the followup protest in front of the cop headquarters. There was lots of police prescence but no one did anything to give them an excuse for a response. Clearly if it was all secret cop agents for the G20 they would have acted here too. A perfect excuse to further demonstrate that the protesters 'deserved' it. It didnt happen and we were unmolested.

Aristotleded24

Bacchus wrote:
They took the bait by burning the cop car. And really it was only bait in that they didnt guard it like anyone wouldnt stand guard over their car all the time.  There were no plnated activists by cops at the WTO in Seattle yet look what happened.

That conference was shut down, the leaders were not prepared for the public backlash.

Bacchus wrote:
The activists are going to do whatever they are going to do, there's no point pretending "cops" have any control over them.

Wrong. The cops have control. They're the ones who make the decision about arresting protestors, and they had the choice to stop the vandalism or let it go on.

And yes, some activists are idiots and will do stupid things. Guess what? Policing brings you into contact with idiots on an almost daily basis, and it is the responsibility of the police to remain professional and reasonable no matter what the provocation.

Bacchus

Which depending on their orders, sometimes happens.

 

And dammit where have you been? Dont you know you have to be there to comment on my comments when Im arguing with you?

 

Doesnt anybody know the way things are supposed to be Laughing

Seriously though, I think you can place blame on both sides but ultimately its the rulling rulers that are to blame. As they try to squelch or emasculate opposition, the opposition is basically forced to become ever more creative to get their message and ideas across leading to more maneuvering by the ruling rulers through which the cops are but one weapon in their armory.

remind remind's picture

Bacchus wrote:
...through which the cops are but one weapon in their armory.

Historically, the Freemasons have been but yet another weapon, or perhaps they have actually been orderers up the weapons themselves.

Bacchus

What does that have to do with the cops?

Papal Bull

Mason conspiracies in 2010?

 

When will people learn that the Masons are generally too inebriated to pull of world-controlling feats of evil these days?

Maysie Maysie's picture

The Stone Cutter's Song: We do.

al-Qa'bong

remind wrote:
Historically, the Freemasons have been but yet another weapon, or perhaps they have actually been orderers up the weapons themselves.

 

I have no idea what this means, but masons are apparently scary people.

 

This guy talks about the threat of the Freemasons quite a lot.

 

Quote:

He goes deeper into today's headlines than anyone else dares to go.

He de-programs the brainwashed simply by uncovering the truth.

Get a whole new perspective to what's happening in the world every Saturday night with the Spaceman on A View From Space.

 

Bacchus

Maysie wrote:

The Stone Cutter's Song: We do.

 

Freemasons actually love this bit!

remind remind's picture

Papal Bull wrote:
 When will people learn that the Masons are generally too inebriated to pull of world-controlling feats of evil these days?

When will people learn that  that phoney inebriated persona is a load of nonsense?

sknguy II

I realize that starlight cruises are the symptom of a complex social deformity, but from starlight cruises to police mandates, the G20 summit, and then to freemason caricatures. Surely this makes the top ten for thread drift records? I enjoy reading the posts but this kinda takes away for the original topic.

Sorry for the thread drift.

Honestly though, these cruises have and do occur. I just can't understand how someone who is capable of perpetrating such an act can sleep at night. The day I do something like that is the day I stop being a cop. Common sense shouldn't need "strict new rules" to enforce or "bold new approaches" to policing. Policing should simply be about returing to a mandate of sanity and normalizing relationships.

PraetorianFour

sknguy II wrote:

 

Honestly though, these cruises have and do occur. I just can't understand how someone who is capable of perpetrating such an act can sleep at night. The day I do something like that is the day I stop being a cop. Common sense shouldn't need "strict new rules" to enforce or "bold new approaches" to policing. Policing should simply be about returing to a mandate of sanity and normalizing relationships.

 

I'm amazed at the stupidity of cops [and others] sometimes when it comes to doing stupid things in public. You KNOW everyone has a cell phone and they have cameras on them.  When I was training people for the G20 summit I told them every day. Anything you do WILL be caught on camera. Whatever you do make sure you are being professional at all times, following the rules and don't fuck around. If you are detaining someone on the ground and he's being an asshole don't give him a shot because you can- it WILL be caught on tape and you're in the wrong, period.

 

Yet we see evidence of it everywhere. I'm very glad for the cameras but you would think sooner or later people would realize they will be on youtube within minutes.

Stargazer

Those cameras were a joke. Footage will only be used against the people, not the police. And despite the fact they were only supposed to be up for the G20 - they still remain exactly where they were placed.

PraetorianFour

I mean camera phones and to a lesser extent cameras in police stations and police cars.

Caissa

A guy takes two weeks holidays and misses some good material. I just want to say how much I enjoyed reading Stargazer's post at #44.

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