Demonstrations and rallies against bombing Syria

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lagatta4
Demonstrations and rallies against bombing Syria

A friend sent me notice of the demo here (Montréal) today. Anywhere else?

Manif  dimanche 15 avril Carr Philips (Philips Square ) 14h00: Hands Off Syria
Vu la frappe contre la Syrie par les EE.UU, la France et le Royaume Uni en flagrant délit du droit international, il y aura une manif demain/dimanche au Carré Philips (Philips Square) à 14h00, l'organisation Le Mouvement Québécois pour la Paix vient d'annoncer. On n'a pas encore le lien de l'événement sur Facebook, ce qui se fait actuellement. Venez dénoncer cet acte d'agression ainsi que l’hypocrisie du gouvernement canadien qui appuie les agresseurs tout en gardant un silence honteux sue la situation à Gaza.

Given the attack on Syria by the U.N, U.K and France in complete disregard of international law, there will be a demo Sunday (15 April) at Philips Square at 2 PM organized by the Mouvement Québécois pour la Paix, just announced. The link for the Facebook is not yet available but is in the process of being done. Come out to denounce this act of aggression as well as the hypocrisy of the Canadian government which supports the agressors while keeping mum on the killings in Gaza.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Although I was pleased that Canada didn't get involved with these bombings,I was disappointed how they parrot the UN/NATO line. These bombings should have been condemned. The US,France and UK carried out this aggression without any investigation or facts to back them up. In my opinion,this attack was illegal,regardless what the NATO and United nations are saying.

I'd show up to this protest but the weather won't let me. I hope this is a continual and regular protest so I can attend in the very near future.

6079_Smith_W

Funny how everyone is criticizing Trump for warning them well ahead of time that this was coming. That was probably the whole idea, considering that last time they were able to get all their planes tucked away before the bombs hit.

 

lagatta4

Yes, honestly I'm not going either today. I was rather ill this past winter (nothing life-threatening in a developed country with health care) and can't risk getting bronchitis.

There were interviews on Radio-Canada with several Syrian refugee women who detest the régime there but think bombing will only kill more civilians and who are very worried about their families back home.

I expected no better of Trump or May, but Macron disgusts me. I never thought he was in the slighted progressive, but he is behaving in a manner worse than the French right-wing parties did with respect to the war on Iraq. He's really into the old ideas of grandeur.  There are some young French people here protesting against his domestic and foreign policies. And while Trudeau isn't providing any active support so far, he is certainly assenting to this act that will only hurt people in Syria who have suffered so much, under their dictator, Daesh and war.

Paladin1

alan smithee wrote:

Although I was pleased that Canada didn't get involved with these bombings

A Canadian made Bombardier E-11A out of Khandahar airfield was however used to coordinate some of the strikes.

 

Just like our LAVs murdering people with the Saudi's I suppose. We're not really to blame.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Although I was pleased that Canada didn't get involved with these bombings

A Canadian made Bombardier E-11A out of Khandahar airfield was however used to coordinate some of the strikes.

 

Just like our LAVs murdering people with the Saudi's I suppose. We're not really to blame.

That's a lame example to suggest Canada was involved simply because a Bombardier plane was in flight.That's like blaming Germans when someone from England shoots someone in France with a Luger.

Nice effort,though.

Paladin1

Is it lame to point out that while we're not pulling triggers the weapons of war we manufacture and sell still end up used to kill people?

6079_Smith_W

The arms industry is a large part of what drives these wars (and in this case the oil industry, which we are also wrapped up in).

Pointing out those links is fair comment.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

Is it lame to point out that while we're not pulling triggers the weapons of war we manufacture and sell still end up used to kill people?

point being that no canadian soldiers or military was involved. end point. your point is lame and just arguing for the sake of arguing. zzzz!

As I said. Your logic would be blaming Germany everytime someone gets shot with a Luger. Or blaming the US for any crime in Canada involving a glock.NEXT!

cco

lagatta4 wrote:

I expected no better of Trump or May, but Macron disgusts me. I never thought he was in the slighted progressive, but he is behaving in a manner worse than the French right-wing parties did with respect to the war on Iraq. He's really into the old ideas of grandeur.

French governments appear to feel that France has the unlimited right to military action in any country that was once part of the French Empire. Françafrique, Levant edition.

Paladin1

alan smithee wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Is it lame to point out that while we're not pulling triggers the weapons of war we manufacture and sell still end up used to kill people?

point being that no canadian soldiers or military was involved. end point. your point is lame and just arguing for the sake of arguing. zzzz!

As I said. Your logic would be blaming Germany everytime someone gets shot with a Luger. Or blaming the US for any crime in Canada involving a glock.NEXT!

 

Maybe you're right sir.

I think it's more like suggesting Russia has any part to blame in WW2 for supplying Germany tanks and airplanes to train with in the 1930's.

 

Quote:
Or blaming the US for any crime in Canada involving a glock.NEXT!

Or filing a lawsuit against Bushmaster (Ar15s) for the Sandy Hook shooting?

NDPP

Better late than never.

Here's two examples of the effects of bombing by the  US-led 'Global Coalition' of which Canada is a proud member.  Far superior and infinitely more impressive than Russian or Syrian efforts, which clearly pale by comparison.

https://youtu.be/qJDu7cKFA6M

And Iraq too:

https://youtu.be/qO-sO0tV9fE-Mosul, Iraq

"Two Auroras were deployed to the Middle East as part of Canada's response to ISIL in November 2014, along with dozens of special forces troops, six fighter jets and a refueling plane.

Using high-powered cameras and sensors, the Aurora's gathered data about possible ISIL targets for attacks and air strikes in Iraq and then, after the mission was expanded, inside Syria."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/surveillance-plane-crews-strained-after-th...

"An existing severe and epidemiological situation is in Raqqa. Until now, thousands of corpses are decomposing under the ruins of the city. The city is 70% wiped off the face of the earth as a result of the [Coalition] bombing..."  RF DefMin

Op IMPACT: 'The Canadian Armed Forces remains committed to the Global Coalition efforts."

As well, a punishing sanctions-siege, vigorously urged by all parties and especially the NDP is still very much in effect and continues to strangle Syria.  The sanctions must be lifted and Canadian humanitarian aid must immediately be forthcoming to the Syrian state to help alleviate the agonies the Canadian regime and the studied indifference have helped to inflict. 

Pence Thanks Trudeau For Support of Strike in Syria

https://globalnews.ca/video/4144971/pence-thanks-trudeau-for-support-of-...

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Daesh is being converted from a government to a mercenary force. It is more profitable anyway. You get in, murder to order, take hostages for ransom, loot, and get out. You don't have to waste time governing people when you can just kill them with all these nifty weapons.

Russia insists that its airforce base in Syria is for strategic operations against the Islamic State, according to a deal signed between Russia and Syria. This means that Assad gave Russia the authority to bomb Syria.

The West is trotting Trudeau out to claim the "Responsibility to Protect" doctrine, I believe invented by Tory Blair, which states that NATO has the right to bomb anywhere in the world on the pretext of protecting civilians.

This is the essence of the centrist Liberal doctrine. We have to commit violence, devastation, and destruction in the name of the Greater Good. After all, the cleanup will make the GDP go up. Just like in the Athabaska Tar Sands!

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Paladin1 wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Paladin1 wrote:

Is it lame to point out that while we're not pulling triggers the weapons of war we manufacture and sell still end up used to kill people?

point being that no canadian soldiers or military was involved. end point. your point is lame and just arguing for the sake of arguing. zzzz!

As I said. Your logic would be blaming Germany everytime someone gets shot with a Luger. Or blaming the US for any crime in Canada involving a glock.NEXT!

 

Maybe you're right sir.

I think it's more like suggesting Russia has any part to blame in WW2 for supplying Germany tanks and airplanes to train with in the 1930's.

 

Quote:
Or blaming the US for any crime in Canada involving a glock.NEXT!

Or filing a lawsuit against Bushmaster (Ar15s) for the Sandy Hook shooting?

If we/'re talking guns and if one of us is an  apologist for guns,that not being me, I still stand with what i said in the case of blame . No,the AR15 is not to blame for these shotings. It's easy access to weapons like that and the actions of individuals who are to blame,if you want me to be honest.

I think weapons of war shouldn't be accessible to the public. But I don't think the makers of such weapons are responsible for their misuse and lax accessibility. Just like a Canadian made plae used by another country to boomb another country can't be blamed on Canada or Canada being involved for such a reason.

I think my analogy of someone in England  shooting someone in  France with a Luger. It would be a huge and bogus stretch to blame Germany or claim Germany was involved because that weapon was made in Germany. Same applies with soomeone in anoother country bombing someone in another country with a Canadian made plane does not mean Canadian involvement or complicity. It's hyperbolic and incredibly false.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..from denver socialists

lagatta4

Yes, the main point of demonstrations here and in the countries involved in the attacks should be no attacks and refusing any support to them. It is fine to discuss responsibilities of the US, UK, Russia or any other power, but not to let such debates detract from the need to mobilise public support against any participation in or support to this imperialist adventure, which will do nothing to help the Syrian people and might even contribute to shoring up Assad's power. Except in Kurdistan, left and democratic opposition forces have pretty much been crushed by both Assad's dictatorship and the murderous Daesh theocracy.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Are the Denver Socialists wanting us to demonstrate against US and Russian imperialism? I see they have appropriated the Ulster Free Presbyterian Proctologist Fan Club red fist as well. It looks like they may be connected with "International Socialists" which is the upshot of the original adventurist Socialist Workers' Party (or SWP) of the UK. They used to lead "Anti Nazi League" demonstrations in Britain and then go and have drinks with the fascist skinheads in the National Front. "You know, they are really not such bad people. A little misguided, but not bad..."

These lovely Socialists want to put proletarians in the line of fire of the domestic state monopoly by wanting us to demonstrate on their behalf, on causes they barely understand, and have even less desire to. "Come and demonstrate against something far away little lambs, which we are guaranteed never to affect, and which will give us political power. Then we can oppress you even better than before."

"Oh really? Where do I sign up? I know you have my best interests at heart. You have done so much for me in the last 30 years. My wages have gone down from $800 a week in 1980 (at 22) to $600 a week in 2018 (at 59), not even considering inflation. Don't worry though. I am making my age in ways you do not want to know.

My rent used to be 10% of my income. Now it is 30%. Being old, I don't have as many mouths to feed, as the mouths are thankfully feeding themselves. I now have to financially consider whether to go out on a bender. Used to be you could get 10 small draught for $2. Which is probably good for my health, but I should still have the money to do other things. Like save up for when I am even more decrepit than I am now. Yet I will always be a good Stakhanovite worker, whatever your vile ideology is. Faster Faster. Vite Vite. Yalla Yalla! I don't care if I drop dead on the job, because there is nothing in this world living for, and financially it would be better for me as I would not have to suffer the grinding poverty of Canadian old age. Death might just be non-existence, which would be the biggest blessing of all. 

All there is to live for is War, Conquest, Empire, Slavery, Religion, Democracy, Revolution, War, Conquest, Slavery, Religion, Democracy, Revolution, etc. All of which are designed to keep me down and in fear of my life, so I will do whatever the Quebec national socialist state monopoly capitalist party of the day wants. Threaten separation so I can worry if my boss will pull out lock stock and barrel. But don't worry the national socialist unions in Quebec will be fine. As I am not de souche, I will never get into one of those. I have been told I have the wrong kind of last name.

The "proletarian vanguards", of which many have never done an honest day's work in their life, also want for us to be surveilled by the state, so we can be listed as agitators, not helping our employment prospects at all. Why? To keep us in a state of misery, so they will always have ideological fodder in their quest to make their leader the new Pharaoh, and for them to get to sweep up the gold dust in the mills.

Compare this completely impotent mewling to the real practical public uprising against the oil industry in Canada. Public pressure is affecting the debate greatly, and it has even slightly changed the behaviour of the slavemasters. There is no centralized ideological coordination, as socialists would want. Tactically it is better, because they can't advance against us if they don't know where we are coming from. People are coming up with points and others are running with it. The reason it is so effective is that we are not caged into pens by the ideology people so their Pharaohs can do evil deals with the Pharaohs in the business.

Ideology like socialism comes from the slavemaster class. Engels owned a factory, so he could observe his slaves and write about their plight to assuage his guilt. "But remember Karl, make the demands so ridiculous and impractical that capitalism will always win. That way my grandchildren can still cash in, and they can subsidize more people like you to increase instability and crisis, and more profit for us." "Yes sir. When's the next money coming in?"

How would a proletarian have time to come up with all that ideology shit? Work, sleep, and with any spare time analgesia so we can forget about our vile existence. 12 beers on Saturday, 8 on Sunday, and none for the rest of the week.

The slavemasters want to replace the masters, and they think they can do that by claiming they are the "vanguard of the proletariat". Whenever they do rise to power, conditions for the proletariat become even worse than under capitalism. A capitalist government will bottleneck demonstrators. A socialist government will just move in with tanks and kill them all. Read up on the Kronstadt Rebellion. If you strike against socialists, they will not bargain with you. They will just kill you. A capitalist boss will deal. That is what he does. A socialist boss just dictates, like a Pharaoh. The funniest expression is "Dictatorship of the proletariat", said with a completely straight and earnest face. We are the dictators of the proletariat, and if they do not do what we say, we will just kill them with Gatling guns. We have found a Gatling gun works much better than a red flag.

Socialists are frauds, and their whole ideology is based on a fraud that they are representing proletarian interests, when all they want to do is line their own pockets with gold, obtained, as usual, by slavery of the proletariat.

But of course what they say in this instance is true, as you often get out of hypocrisy. America and Russia and Brazil and China and India and the EU and Australia and Canada are all Empires. Britain made three of them, hence it is known as the Mother Country.

Their share of global GDP approaches 100%. Look at a map also, and you can come to no other conclusion. All of the rest of the world is comprised of client states of these Empires.

How do they hold themselves together? By telling proletarians they are all in business for their benefit and the Greater Good. Tell some truth and give a bit of good analysis, and then come out with proposals which kill, devastate, deplete, desertify, impoverish, and otherwise oppress, all in the name of the proletariat, with the red fist flying with the hammer and sickle and the swastika and the cross of Jesus Christ. Whether it calls itself National Socialist, Soviet Socialist, Democratic Socialist, Social Democrat, Communist, Trotskyist, Libertarian, Christian Democrat, Conservative, Liberal, NDP, BQ, CAQ, SQ, etc.

The bombing in Syria is over for now. What exactly is a demonstration going to do? Stop a past event? Flay me with a wet noodle.

Why not use your rabble-rousing to organize workers who are getting fucked every day by governments, bosses, landlords, shopkeepers, and banks? Because that would raise the living standards of the workers, which you are violently opposed to. Because to do so would eliminate your reason for existence. If we had more economic power, we could embargo the imperialists and hurt them in the only place they care about.

Sorry for another reactionary right-wing rant.

lagatta4

National Socialist unions? I worked for the CSN for years, organising workers for one thing, writing for another. It certainly had its fault and wound up divesting itself of many of the "radicals", including lagatta. But it sure as hell wasn't "National-Socialist", as in Nazi. Unless you think the Scottish Socialist Party and the Catalonian left are Nazi groups.

I don't like the UK SWP - sorry if I'm not following those things closely, I thought the ISO had broken with them. But I agree with the call to the demo.

I think you just hate everyone.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The anti Socialist rhetoric doesn't belong in this forum or this site (Rabble) Newsflash,rabble is a socialist media. I thought everyone knew that,I guess I am wrong.

That talk is suited for lamestream media sites and forums.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
he anti Socialist rhetoric doesn't belong in this forum or this site (Rabble)

Certainly anti-Socialist rhetoric must include anti-Socialist screeds from Conservative sources.

Does it also include "socialists" ripping on other socialists for not being "real" socialists?  Do they have a welcome home here?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
he anti Socialist rhetoric doesn't belong in this forum or this site (Rabble)

Certainly anti-Socialist rhetoric must include anti-Socialist screeds from Conservative sources.

Does it also include "socialists" ripping on other socialists for not being "real" socialists?  Do they have a welcome home here?

You're asking a dumb question. Maybe you don't know which comment I'm referring to. Let me enlighten you.

Post #17

These lovely Socialists want to put proletarians in the line of fire of the domestic state monopoly by wanting us to demonstrate on their behalf, on causes they barely understand, and have even less desire to. "Come and demonstrate against something far away little lambs, which we are guaranteed never to affect, and which will give us political power. Then we can oppress you even better than before."

If socialists want to bicker at each other,fine. But ripping Socialists for being Socialists is a whole other story.

It's the kind of tripe that belongs on talk radio,lamestream newspapers and Corporate TV comment sections. I don't think there's a place for it here. My opinion. If your opinion is different that's your entitlement.

Maybe you should have an idea of the context behind my comment before trying to make me out as a fool. Without doing that,you make yourself out a fool.

Paladin1

alan smithee wrote:

If we/'re talking guns and if one of us is an  apologist for guns,that not being me, I still stand with what i said in the case of blame . No,the AR15 is not to blame for these shotings. It's easy access to weapons like that and the actions of individuals who are to blame,if you want me to be honest.

I agree with you.

Quote:
I think weapons of war shouldn't be accessible to the public. But I don't think the makers of such weapons are responsible for their misuse and lax accessibility. Just like a Canadian made plae used by another country to boomb another country can't be blamed on Canada or Canada being involved for such a reason.
Weapon of war as a descriptor can be ambigious but I agree with what you're saying kind of sort of. A balance between what's socially acceptable to use and what's designed to assault a stronghold or defend a position etc.. etc..

Many people seem to disagree with you about Canadas responsibility when selling weapons of war to other countries. We've sold small arms (like guns people carry) to Saudi Arabia and friends and those guns have turned up in the hands of ISIS and used against our allies (and us). I think it was the Philipeans maybe that told us to go fuck ourselves in a helicopter deal. We were selling helicopters and tried to force them to sign an agreement stating they would not put weapons on the helicopters. They bought other helicopters.  We can feel righteous about ourselves that our Canada made helicopters won't (or, may not be) complicit in people being killed BUT we're also losing out when it comes to employment and international sales. (is it worth it if we have to give, say, bombidier another billion dollar bailout?)

Recently read an article about Germany selling lepoard tanks to turkey with the clause that they do not use the tanks against kurds. Turkey wants the tanks upgraded by germany but germany is saying no you're not using them how we agreed.

So big take away question is should Canada try and put these clauses on business deals when selling weapons and weapons of war or even vehicles to other countries?

 

Quote:
I think my analogy of someone in England  shooting someone in  France with a Luger. It would be a huge and bogus stretch to blame Germany or claim Germany was involved because that weapon was made in Germany. Same applies with soomeone in anoother country bombing someone in another country with a Canadian made plane does not mean Canadian involvement or complicity. It's hyperbolic and incredibly false.

Fair enough, you could be right and I could be wrong.  I thought my example of Russia letting Germany train with tanks and planes was likewise a good analogy.