Avi Lewis - Rachel Notley is the "new patron saint of the corporate welfare bums"

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Mighty Middle
Avi Lewis - Rachel Notley is the "new patron saint of the corporate welfare bums"

Saying on this AM Question Period when do we stop pouring money into industries we should be transitioning, and start building programs to put people back to work in the future and not the past.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/video?clipId=1559919

Avi Lewis gets so passionate and worked up over the way Canada is going, the other people on the panel start encouraging him to run for public office!

 

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alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I've been calling Notley a right winger for a couple years just to be laughed at on Babble.

She is proof that the NDP can't be trusted or at least no better than any other party.

What's that slogan again? Liberal/Tory same old story (which is bullshit but I digress) Now it's official Liberal/Tory/NDP same old story. Get used to that slogan.

voice of the damned

alan smithee wrote:

I've been calling Notley a right winger for a couple years just to be laughed at on Babble.

 

More specifically, you've gotten criticized for saying that there is no difference between Notley and someone like Jason Kenney, and when called upon to provide an example besides pipelines, muttering something about how you don't follow Alberta politics that closely.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I've been calling Notley a right winger for a couple years just to be laughed at on Babble.

 

More specifically, you've gotten criticized for saying that there is no difference between Notley and someone like Jason Kenney and when called upon to provide an example besides pipelines, muttering something about how you don't follow Alberta politics that closely.

I don't care much about Alberta. Notley may not be on the same level as Kenney (which isn't saying much since Kenney is a rabid RWNJ) but she is a right winger. Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done. Crickets I am sure. Don't be so butt hurt that the NDP can lean to the right as any other provincial government. She proves the NDP isn't the progressive saviors some here and I'm assuming even yourself, believe they are. I'm sorry,they aren't

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Oil shill is a far better insult to tar her with.  Horgan's LNG plans are as bad. I heard him actually state that the bullshit numbers about the losses to the economy because of the price differential were irrefutable. It had me fuming.

quizzical

fo smithee the improvements to hwys, healthcare and family violence alone are huge. then workers safety and diversification of economy significant.

you fkn rail against your right wing government in QC and condemn Notley for way less. you're a fkn hypocrite at best.

quizzical

oh ya is QC going to refuse its 13 billion it's getting in transfer payments as a continual has not province? money you know coming from the petroleum industry?

ya i thought not. a whole province full of hypocrites feeding at western Canada's expense. and Ontario has nerve to whine they don't get any.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

quizzical wrote:

fo smithee the improvements to hwys, healthcare and family violence alone are huge. then workers safety and diversification of economy significant.

you fkn rail against your right wing government in QC and condemn Notley for way less. you're a fkn hypocrite at best.

Whoa whoa there quiz. The difference is that the 2 crazy right wing governments in Quebec and Ontario came as advertised. Notley is supposed to be an New Democrat but she is a fugazi . THat is why I keep calling her right wing. Because she is when she should be left leaning , it's the NDP right? Or not. She is the hypoctite. I'm not the hypocrite,you are not a hypocrite, Legault and Ford aren't hypocrites they are exactly as advertised.

I get that your province is heavily blue but I'd also call some of the NDP provincial past and present that they decided to go  centre right when in power. Why should I trust the federal NDP? I don't know how they'ds govern but if they are like Notley, why the hell not vote Liberal? Our  federal government is trying to cater to everyone so they rock like a pedulum from one side to the other. I don't know why they'd bother. Pick a side and stick to it.

Alberta and the Prairies are the bluest provinces in Canada. So all the time a New Democrat is elected to form a government, they tend to lean to the right.

I'm just saying that Notley is a right winger. People can disagree but look at some of her policies (or masybe all of them I don't live in Alberta) the proof is in the pudding. Sorry.

voice of the damned

So, can you name some of these right-wing policies, Smithee? On things like labour-law reform, and lgbqt rights, just off the top of my head, the Alberta NDP has been quite progressive. So, how about balancing things off by listing where they're right-wing?

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

So, can you name some of these right-wing policies, Smithee? On things like labour-law reform, and lgbqt rights, just off the top of my head, the Alberta NDP has been quite progressive. So, how about balancing things off by listing where they're right-wing?

Sigh. Enligten me vod. And please back it up. I'll trust you. But who hears the name 'Alberta' and thinks progressive. It's no secret that Alberta is the bluest right wing province in Canada. I could back that up with Ralph Klein and Alison Redford. Their record speaks for itself.

But please enlighten me. Until then she's right wing or at the very least a Big Oil shill (which is not progressive or left wing) Which reminds me, I'm sure you,like others have shit all over the federal Liberals when they are guilty of the same thing AND tried to save the pipelines for Alberta. I think it's BC that is blocking it. Their premier is a real New Democrat,though.  

quizzical

full of shit smithee. she's not right wing and Quebecers are fkn hypocrites just like you.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

quizzical wrote:

full of shit smithee. she's not right wing and Quebecers are fkn hypocrites just like you.

As is all the fiuckwit Cons in your proviunce. Get used to Premier Kenney. I'm not full of shit, you are because if READ WHAT I SAID I said SPECIFICALLY  that Onatrio and Quebec are  now as blue as you. But no. You juswt want to attack. Take a pill and get back to me when you settle down.

voice of the damned

Smithee:

Google "Alberta NDP gay-straight alliance clubs"; "Alberta NDP makes discrimination against trans people illegal"; and Alberta NDP farm safety legislation", just for starters.

And yes, not many people traditionally think "left-wing" when they think Alberta. By the same token, not many people think "socially cosnervative prudes" when they think Quebec, but now I see where you guys are heading for the highest marijuana-use age in the country. So the free-association method of determining the current political outlook in a province doesn't always work.  

 

Mighty Middle

alan smithee wrote:

Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done.

She has allowed Safe Injection Sites to open all across Alberta. Conservative government in Alberta would never allow that to happen. Chinese business groups are in court today to fight Notley on this to shut them down.

Jason Kenney has already gone on record saying he opposes these sites, and if he gets elected I wouldn't be surprised if he shuts them all down. It is the province that has the power to fund these sites, not the federal government.

quizzical

Quebecers going to refuse the 13 billion they're being transferred from profits from the western Canada petroleum industry?

ya no they're not nor is any one of the people here railing against pipelines going to advocate keeping their fingers off the "dirty money" funny how it works.

i got no respect. life has improved in AB and still we have people here saying no difference between NDP and UCP.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

Smithee:

Google "Alberta NDP gay-straight alliance clubs"; "Alberta NDP makes discrimination against trans people illegal"; and Alberta NDP farm safety legislation", just for starters.

And yes, not many people traditionally think "left-wing" when they think Alberta. By the same token, not many people think "socially cosnervative prudes" when they think Quebec, but now I see where you guys are heading for the highest marijuana-use age in the country. So the free-association method of determining the current political outlook in a province doesn't always work.  

 

VOD. If you read the Legault thread you will see that it's the Ayn Randist/ Stephen Harper government that just was elected. I said we would have been better off if the PLQ won and it's very true. Thing is, even though Legault's most ardent supporters want that , the entire opposition is against it. The federal government is against it and blood red Montreal will oppose it. That fucxkface is going to have problems doing it because the age for EVERYTHING else is 18. Other provinces is 19. But on this issue,Legoman and his degenerate government will create a black market with a good chunk of customers. That was the whole point of legalization. Keep it out of the hands of kids by taking away the black market cannabis economy.

So expect there to be some unrest. This STUPID and UNINFORMED decision is opposed by almost everyone except Legoman,his degenerate government and their supporeters (who are a clear minority) the populace especially in Montreal is going to react. The debate has started.

The only glimmer of hope is that Legoman will be so far to the right that people will grow tired of them fast. Also remember this, Montreal has not elected a conservative candidate since 1988 including this past election .

Im saying get ready for Premier Kenney and all that progress will vanish into mid-air without much or any fight.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Mighty Middle wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done.

She has allowed Safe Injection Sites to open all across Alberta. Conservative government in Alberta would never allow that to happen. Chinese business groups are in court today to fight Notley on this to shut them down.

Jason Kenney has already gone on record saying he opposes these sites, and if he gets elected I wouldn't be surprised if he shuts them all down. It is the province that has the power to fund these sites, not the federal government.

We've got them too. So far Legoman hasn't said anything about it but the National Assembly is on Christmas break. I'm sure he'll close them or tighten up regulations on them. It is a provincial thing so unfortunately the federal government can't stop it. As for legal cannabis, Legoman wants those stores to close but it's Canadian LAW so he go suck on a dry one.

cco

quizzical wrote:

full of shit smithee. she's not right wing and Quebecers are fkn hypocrites just like you.

Alan doesn't speak for the entire province.

quizzical wrote:

Quebecers going to refuse the 13 billion they're being transferred from profits from the western Canada petroleum industry?

Even after Ralph Klein's death, this right-wing-think-tank-funded myth refuses to go away. That's just not how equalization works. Politicians have certainly made careers on it, to the point where my in-laws in Alberta are convinced they're personally writing cheques to Quebec every year. Quebecers pay federal taxes too. It's not "coming out of Alberta's pocket" any more than EI payments to laid-off oil workers -- or the $4.5 billion to buy Kinder Morgan -- are coming out of Toronto's. The Fraser Institute loves to fudge the numbers by dividing them per capita, ignoring the fact that federal income tax is bracketed (and ignoring the billions a year in subsidies to the oil industry). The myth that the average Albertan pays thousands of dollars a year to the average Quebecer is one that the Reform Party rode into office. That doesn't make it true.

quizzical
Pogo Pogo's picture

alan smithee wrote:
Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done. 
 

I have a soft spot for people who will say the pipeline policy trumps all.  But don't say Notley has not done one progressive thing, it just makes you look dumb.

Stephen Lindsay has put together a pretty exhaustive list. I have picked out some noteworthy ones.

https://fieldofviewweb.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/ndp-accomplishments/

Alberta NDP highlights:

– banned corporate and union donations.

– brought farm safety up to code long overdue and in line with every other employer in Alberta by passing Bill 6(matching safety laws across the country).

– increased corporate tax from 10% to 12%. Less corporate welfare and only applies to profits.

-lowered small business tax by 1% in 2017 so 10% LESS.

– $6.2 billion for energy jobs through the carbon tax program. Another $3.4 billion for rebates. Farms are exempt and large emitters like oil sands are exempt and flight out of Alberta are exempt.

– progressive tax system vs flat tax. Still lowest taxes in Canada and lower than Klein era.

– $35 billion in infrastructure jobs over next 5 years underway. Creating jobs we asked for and need.

– left our healthcare intact and no $1000 yearly fees like the PCs wanted.

– reversed planned PC govt. funding cuts to education, healthcare and public services.

– added beer tax and grant to protect Alberta small brewers. Later added local distilleries and wineries to the deal.

– progressively raising minimum wage to $15/hr lifting people out of poverty.

– added Alberta jobs grant. Alberta pays 2/3rds of any employees training up to $10,000 per individual.

– suing private power companies who colluded and made a secret deal.

– fired the entire board of agriculture financial services after ridiculous spending was discovered.

– passed transgender rights bill.

– passed essential services legislation. Allows strikes and lockouts by public sector workers, while still requiring ‘essential’ public services to be available to the general public during such labour disruptions.

– passed the SHARP program to provide home equity loans to seniors to help repair and stay in their homes.

– added public servants to the sunshine list for earners over $125,000.

– added new rule that allows victims of violence to end their leases early without penalty to leave an unsafe home.

– froze post secondary tuition and fees for two years.

– passed the predatory lending act.

– Payday lending: Stopped 600 percent predatory interest rates on payday loans to prevent Albertans from spiraling into poverty. Alberta now has the country’s strongest protections and lowest interest rates for borrowers.

– Door-to-door sales: Prohibited misleading, aggressive sales tactics by banning door-to-door sales of energy products and services, including furnaces, hot water tanks, air conditioners, windows, energy audits and electricity and natural gas contracts.

– Electricity price cap: Introduced a price cap to make life more affordable and ensure electricity bills are fair.

– New home buyer protection: Introduced a builder licensing framework to protect consumers as well as the reputation of good builders.

– $239 million for provincial park upgrades.

– spent $647 million fighting Ft Mac fire and getting residence extended EI.

– fixed the Klein power contracts and worked out a very good deal to phase out coal plants and convert them to ng. Costing us nothing. They get paid through a pay structure that uses the money they pay as emissions to buy them out.

– protected the castle wilderness area by creating a provincial park and limiting off-highway vehicles (ohv) use.

– cut CEO pay, bonuses and perks at 23 Alberta corps, agencies and commissions saving $16 million a year. Under the new framework, Guy Kerr, CEO of the Workers’ Compensation Board, will earn $396,720 instead of $896,206.

– passed Bill 202 a Wildrose Bill that allows people to sue for posting sex pics etc.

– passed Bill 12 requires new home builders to be licensed and govt. posts their track record etc for consumers by 2018.

– spending 10 million on the integrated training program which will add 11 new job training programs for unemployed Albertans.

– $1.7 million to upgrade provinces homeless facilities.

– June 2017 NDP fires agriculture boards for corruption and taking bribes and gifts.

– July 2017 $665,000 grant to the Canadian Indigenous Language and Literacy Development Institute will help enhance Indigenous language acquisition for Alberta students by ensuring instructors can acquire training and certification.

– July 2017 NDP provides universal coverage for Mifegymiso. Ergo, supporting greater choice for women when it comes to their reproductive health.

– August 2017 $450K grant to help Hanna amid coal phase-out.

-Capital Power, which will build the 201-megawatt Whitla Wind project 60 kilometres southwest of Medicine Hat.

-EDP Renewables Canada Ltd., which will build a 248-megawatt wind farm at their Sharp Hills project east of Hanna, roughly 50 kilometres north of Oyen.

-Enel Green Power North America, Inc., which will build two projects – the 115-megawatt Riverview Wind Farm and the 31-megawatt Phase 2 of Castle Rock Ridge Wind Power Plant just outside of Pincher Creek.

 

Geoff

Pogo wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done. 
 

I have a soft spot for people who will say the pipeline policy trumps all.  But don't say Notley has not done one progressive thing, it just makes you look dumb.

Stephen Lindsay has put together a pretty exhaustive list. I have picked out some noteworthy ones.

https://fieldofviewweb.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/ndp-accomplishments/

Alberta NDP highlights:

– banned corporate and union donations.

– brought farm safety up to code long overdue and in line with every other employer in Alberta by passing Bill 6(matching safety laws across the country).

– increased corporate tax from 10% to 12%. Less corporate welfare and only applies to profits.

-lowered small business tax by 1% in 2017 so 10% LESS.

– $6.2 billion for energy jobs through the carbon tax program. Another $3.4 billion for rebates. Farms are exempt and large emitters like oil sands are exempt and flight out of Alberta are exempt.

– progressive tax system vs flat tax. Still lowest taxes in Canada and lower than Klein era.

– $35 billion in infrastructure jobs over next 5 years underway. Creating jobs we asked for and need.

– left our healthcare intact and no $1000 yearly fees like the PCs wanted.

– reversed planned PC govt. funding cuts to education, healthcare and public services.

– added beer tax and grant to protect Alberta small brewers. Later added local distilleries and wineries to the deal.

– progressively raising minimum wage to $15/hr lifting people out of poverty.

– added Alberta jobs grant. Alberta pays 2/3rds of any employees training up to $10,000 per individual.

– suing private power companies who colluded and made a secret deal.

– fired the entire board of agriculture financial services after ridiculous spending was discovered.

– passed transgender rights bill.

– passed essential services legislation. Allows strikes and lockouts by public sector workers, while still requiring ‘essential’ public services to be available to the general public during such labour disruptions.

– passed the SHARP program to provide home equity loans to seniors to help repair and stay in their homes.

– added public servants to the sunshine list for earners over $125,000.

– added new rule that allows victims of violence to end their leases early without penalty to leave an unsafe home.

– froze post secondary tuition and fees for two years.

– passed the predatory lending act.

– Payday lending: Stopped 600 percent predatory interest rates on payday loans to prevent Albertans from spiraling into poverty. Alberta now has the country’s strongest protections and lowest interest rates for borrowers.

– Door-to-door sales: Prohibited misleading, aggressive sales tactics by banning door-to-door sales of energy products and services, including furnaces, hot water tanks, air conditioners, windows, energy audits and electricity and natural gas contracts.

– Electricity price cap: Introduced a price cap to make life more affordable and ensure electricity bills are fair.

– New home buyer protection: Introduced a builder licensing framework to protect consumers as well as the reputation of good builders.

– $239 million for provincial park upgrades.

– spent $647 million fighting Ft Mac fire and getting residence extended EI.

– fixed the Klein power contracts and worked out a very good deal to phase out coal plants and convert them to ng. Costing us nothing. They get paid through a pay structure that uses the money they pay as emissions to buy them out.

– protected the castle wilderness area by creating a provincial park and limiting off-highway vehicles (ohv) use.

– cut CEO pay, bonuses and perks at 23 Alberta corps, agencies and commissions saving $16 million a year. Under the new framework, Guy Kerr, CEO of the Workers’ Compensation Board, will earn $396,720 instead of $896,206.

– passed Bill 202 a Wildrose Bill that allows people to sue for posting sex pics etc.

– passed Bill 12 requires new home builders to be licensed and govt. posts their track record etc for consumers by 2018.

– spending 10 million on the integrated training program which will add 11 new job training programs for unemployed Albertans.

– $1.7 million to upgrade provinces homeless facilities.

– June 2017 NDP fires agriculture boards for corruption and taking bribes and gifts.

– July 2017 $665,000 grant to the Canadian Indigenous Language and Literacy Development Institute will help enhance Indigenous language acquisition for Alberta students by ensuring instructors can acquire training and certification.

– July 2017 NDP provides universal coverage for Mifegymiso. Ergo, supporting greater choice for women when it comes to their reproductive health.

– August 2017 $450K grant to help Hanna amid coal phase-out.

-Capital Power, which will build the 201-megawatt Whitla Wind project 60 kilometres southwest of Medicine Hat.

-EDP Renewables Canada Ltd., which will build a 248-megawatt wind farm at their Sharp Hills project east of Hanna, roughly 50 kilometres north of Oyen.

-Enel Green Power North America, Inc., which will build two projects – the 115-megawatt Riverview Wind Farm and the 31-megawatt Phase 2 of Castle Rock Ridge Wind Power Plant just outside of Pincher Creek.

 

Pogo, thank you for reminding folks of the impressive list of accomplishments under Notley's watch. I wonder how many of these policies will be reversed if the Conservatives return to power. (You remember the Conservatives, the idiots who blew the Heritage Fund and left Albertans without a pot to 'you-know-what-in' now that the economy has gone pear-shaped.) 

I'm not a supporter of the tar sands, so I appreciate that people are diasappointed with the Alberta government's determination to keep the bitumen flowing. However, it's one heck of a leap in logic to say the Alberta NDP is no different from the UCP. Your summary of what the NDP government has achieved is proof of that.

WWWTT

I love Rachel Notley! What she has done for the people of Alberta is nothing less than miraculous 

What the hell do some people want from her? She has done the best with what she has to work with. 

 

swallow swallow's picture

quizzical wrote:

full of shit smithee. she's not right wing and Quebecers are fkn hypocrites just like you.

She's not right-wing, no. There are plenty of left-wingers who have developed oil resources, it's not a left-right issue.

Signed,

A Quebecer, aka a "fkn hypocrite" apparently. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pogo wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done. 
 

I have a soft spot for people who will say the pipeline policy trumps all.  But don't say Notley has not done one progressive thing, it just makes you look dumb.

Stephen Lindsay has put together a pretty exhaustive list. I have picked out some noteworthy ones.

https://fieldofviewweb.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/ndp-accomplishments/

Alberta NDP highlights:

– banned corporate and union donations.

– brought farm safety up to code long overdue and in line with every other employer in Alberta by passing Bill 6(matching safety laws across the country).

– increased corporate tax from 10% to 12%. Less corporate welfare and only applies to profits.

-lowered small business tax by 1% in 2017 so 10% LESS.

– $6.2 billion for energy jobs through the carbon tax program. Another $3.4 billion for rebates. Farms are exempt and large emitters like oil sands are exempt and flight out of Alberta are exempt.

– progressive tax system vs flat tax. Still lowest taxes in Canada and lower than Klein era.

– $35 billion in infrastructure jobs over next 5 years underway. Creating jobs we asked for and need.

– left our healthcare intact and no $1000 yearly fees like the PCs wanted.

– reversed planned PC govt. funding cuts to education, healthcare and public services.

– added beer tax and grant to protect Alberta small brewers. Later added local distilleries and wineries to the deal.

– progressively raising minimum wage to $15/hr lifting people out of poverty.

– added Alberta jobs grant. Alberta pays 2/3rds of any employees training up to $10,000 per individual.

– suing private power companies who colluded and made a secret deal.

– fired the entire board of agriculture financial services after ridiculous spending was discovered.

– passed transgender rights bill.

– passed essential services legislation. Allows strikes and lockouts by public sector workers, while still requiring ‘essential’ public services to be available to the general public during such labour disruptions.

– passed the SHARP program to provide home equity loans to seniors to help repair and stay in their homes.

– added public servants to the sunshine list for earners over $125,000.

– added new rule that allows victims of violence to end their leases early without penalty to leave an unsafe home.

– froze post secondary tuition and fees for two years.

– passed the predatory lending act.

– Payday lending: Stopped 600 percent predatory interest rates on payday loans to prevent Albertans from spiraling into poverty. Alberta now has the country’s strongest protections and lowest interest rates for borrowers.

– Door-to-door sales: Prohibited misleading, aggressive sales tactics by banning door-to-door sales of energy products and services, including furnaces, hot water tanks, air conditioners, windows, energy audits and electricity and natural gas contracts.

– Electricity price cap: Introduced a price cap to make life more affordable and ensure electricity bills are fair.

– New home buyer protection: Introduced a builder licensing framework to protect consumers as well as the reputation of good builders.

– $239 million for provincial park upgrades.

– spent $647 million fighting Ft Mac fire and getting residence extended EI.

– fixed the Klein power contracts and worked out a very good deal to phase out coal plants and convert them to ng. Costing us nothing. They get paid through a pay structure that uses the money they pay as emissions to buy them out.

– protected the castle wilderness area by creating a provincial park and limiting off-highway vehicles (ohv) use.

– cut CEO pay, bonuses and perks at 23 Alberta corps, agencies and commissions saving $16 million a year. Under the new framework, Guy Kerr, CEO of the Workers’ Compensation Board, will earn $396,720 instead of $896,206.

– passed Bill 202 a Wildrose Bill that allows people to sue for posting sex pics etc.

– passed Bill 12 requires new home builders to be licensed and govt. posts their track record etc for consumers by 2018.

– spending 10 million on the integrated training program which will add 11 new job training programs for unemployed Albertans.

– $1.7 million to upgrade provinces homeless facilities.

– June 2017 NDP fires agriculture boards for corruption and taking bribes and gifts.

– July 2017 $665,000 grant to the Canadian Indigenous Language and Literacy Development Institute will help enhance Indigenous language acquisition for Alberta students by ensuring instructors can acquire training and certification.

– July 2017 NDP provides universal coverage for Mifegymiso. Ergo, supporting greater choice for women when it comes to their reproductive health.

– August 2017 $450K grant to help Hanna amid coal phase-out.

-Capital Power, which will build the 201-megawatt Whitla Wind project 60 kilometres southwest of Medicine Hat.

-EDP Renewables Canada Ltd., which will build a 248-megawatt wind farm at their Sharp Hills project east of Hanna, roughly 50 kilometres north of Oyen.

-Enel Green Power North America, Inc., which will build two projects – the 115-megawatt Riverview Wind Farm and the 31-megawatt Phase 2 of Castle Rock Ridge Wind Power Plant just outside of Pincher Creek.

 

[

Thanks for enlighening things for  me Pogo. I get it, she has accomplished a lot of positive work.

I painted her a right winger because of her being a huge Big Oil shill. It's the kind of thing that would make a lot of people take shots at if it were anyone else.

So Trudeau is trying to help Alberta with the pipeline by nationalizing the failing project is a Conserative move?  I could point to a few good things Trudeau has done although the list would be much much shorter.In the end, Alberta will be bailed out and Big Oil will win. I predict that to happen in 2019 before the elections.

I just don't see why it's fine to take shots at any hypocrite that pulled the same stunt and conducted themselves as a right winger regatdless of their other positive policies. Sorry. I'm really not trying to get people riled up but mostly all I knew about Notley was her threatening BC a while back. I found that to be hard right behavior.

It's sad people know how to change attitudes on certain policies according to what colour the party is. Is that really that 'dumb' ?

I take back calling her a right winger. But as I said she comes across that way with her Big Oil rhetoric and shilling.

BTW, when did I say the NDP are no different than UCP? Kenney is a far right asshole that will take away the positive things she has done and he'll no doubt be a huge, shameless Big Oil tool. Kenney is a POS. The UCP and NDP are not the same. Never said that. 

quizzical

Smithee you're always shilling for justin and the liberals but you don't call him a hypocrite or right wing and he bought a pipeline. oh right he just bought Quebec votes for 13.1 billion a year for the next 5 years.

you're not authentic and you're inconsistent.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

quizzical wrote:

Smithee you're always shilling for justin and the liberals but you don't call him a hypocrite or right wing and he bought a pipeline. oh right he just bought Quebec votes for 13.1 billion a year for the next 5 years.

you're not authentic and you're inconsistent.

 

I'm pretty sure I mentioned that the feds are a pedulum swinging from one side to the other. That's how the Liberals work. They try to cater to everyone. I also said that they should pick a side and stick to it. Obviously these facts are conveniently on your blind spot. I suggest you go back to my previous comments and actually read them instead of attacking me. I don't remember attacking you.

And I think it was cco that debunked your figures. I think you should go back and read his post. It's totally lost on you that your constant talk about how all transfer payments go to Quebec. was a Reform Party falsehood to anger Albertans shilling it for political gains in the Prairies. And you are now shilling that same falsehood. You want to suggest I am right wing? Nice try.

BTW, the Liberals bought that pipeline to benefit your province. Not mine. Moving on.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Geoff wrote:

Pogo wrote:

alan smithee wrote:
Name me ONE progressive thing Notley has done. 
 

I have a soft spot for people who will say the pipeline policy trumps all.  But don't say Notley has not done one progressive thing, it just makes you look dumb.

Stephen Lindsay has put together a pretty exhaustive list. I have picked out some noteworthy ones.

https://fieldofviewweb.wordpress.com/2018/09/30/ndp-accomplishments/

Alberta NDP highlights:

– banned corporate and union donations.

– brought farm safety up to code long overdue and in line with every other employer in Alberta by passing Bill 6(matching safety laws across the country).

– increased corporate tax from 10% to 12%. Less corporate welfare and only applies to profits.

-lowered small business tax by 1% in 2017 so 10% LESS.

– $6.2 billion for energy jobs through the carbon tax program. Another $3.4 billion for rebates. Farms are exempt and large emitters like oil sands are exempt and flight out of Alberta are exempt.

– progressive tax system vs flat tax. Still lowest taxes in Canada and lower than Klein era.

– $35 billion in infrastructure jobs over next 5 years underway. Creating jobs we asked for and need.

– left our healthcare intact and no $1000 yearly fees like the PCs wanted.

– reversed planned PC govt. funding cuts to education, healthcare and public services.

– added beer tax and grant to protect Alberta small brewers. Later added local distilleries and wineries to the deal.

– progressively raising minimum wage to $15/hr lifting people out of poverty.

– added Alberta jobs grant. Alberta pays 2/3rds of any employees training up to $10,000 per individual.

– suing private power companies who colluded and made a secret deal.

– fired the entire board of agriculture financial services after ridiculous spending was discovered.

– passed transgender rights bill.

– passed essential services legislation. Allows strikes and lockouts by public sector workers, while still requiring ‘essential’ public services to be available to the general public during such labour disruptions.

– passed the SHARP program to provide home equity loans to seniors to help repair and stay in their homes.

– added public servants to the sunshine list for earners over $125,000.

– added new rule that allows victims of violence to end their leases early without penalty to leave an unsafe home.

– froze post secondary tuition and fees for two years.

– passed the predatory lending act.

– Payday lending: Stopped 600 percent predatory interest rates on payday loans to prevent Albertans from spiraling into poverty. Alberta now has the country’s strongest protections and lowest interest rates for borrowers.

– Door-to-door sales: Prohibited misleading, aggressive sales tactics by banning door-to-door sales of energy products and services, including furnaces, hot water tanks, air conditioners, windows, energy audits and electricity and natural gas contracts.

– Electricity price cap: Introduced a price cap to make life more affordable and ensure electricity bills are fair.

– New home buyer protection: Introduced a builder licensing framework to protect consumers as well as the reputation of good builders.

– $239 million for provincial park upgrades.

– spent $647 million fighting Ft Mac fire and getting residence extended EI.

– fixed the Klein power contracts and worked out a very good deal to phase out coal plants and convert them to ng. Costing us nothing. They get paid through a pay structure that uses the money they pay as emissions to buy them out.

– protected the castle wilderness area by creating a provincial park and limiting off-highway vehicles (ohv) use.

– cut CEO pay, bonuses and perks at 23 Alberta corps, agencies and commissions saving $16 million a year. Under the new framework, Guy Kerr, CEO of the Workers’ Compensation Board, will earn $396,720 instead of $896,206.

– passed Bill 202 a Wildrose Bill that allows people to sue for posting sex pics etc.

– passed Bill 12 requires new home builders to be licensed and govt. posts their track record etc for consumers by 2018.

– spending 10 million on the integrated training program which will add 11 new job training programs for unemployed Albertans.

– $1.7 million to upgrade provinces homeless facilities.

– June 2017 NDP fires agriculture boards for corruption and taking bribes and gifts.

– July 2017 $665,000 grant to the Canadian Indigenous Language and Literacy Development Institute will help enhance Indigenous language acquisition for Alberta students by ensuring instructors can acquire training and certification.

– July 2017 NDP provides universal coverage for Mifegymiso. Ergo, supporting greater choice for women when it comes to their reproductive health.

– August 2017 $450K grant to help Hanna amid coal phase-out.

-Capital Power, which will build the 201-megawatt Whitla Wind project 60 kilometres southwest of Medicine Hat.

-EDP Renewables Canada Ltd., which will build a 248-megawatt wind farm at their Sharp Hills project east of Hanna, roughly 50 kilometres north of Oyen.

-Enel Green Power North America, Inc., which will build two projects – the 115-megawatt Riverview Wind Farm and the 31-megawatt Phase 2 of Castle Rock Ridge Wind Power Plant just outside of Pincher Creek.

 

Pogo, thank you for reminding folks of the impressive list of accomplishments under Notley's watch. I wonder how many of these policies will be reversed if the Conservatives return to power. (You remember the Conservatives, the idiots who blew the Heritage Fund and left Albertans without a pot to 'you-know-what-in' now that the economy has gone pear-shaped.) 

I'm not a supporter of the tar sands, so I appreciate that people are diasappointed with the Alberta government's determination to keep the bitumen flowing. However, it's one heck of a leap in logic to say the Alberta NDP is no different from the UCP. Your summary of what the NDP government has achieved is proof of that.

One thing that I think is harming Notley's chances is that her advisors keep telling her to repeat the worst mistake of the Dexter government in Nova Scotia-that is, to underplay the most progressive things she has done and to try to appeal to those voters(and I'm not sure this is a group of voters who actually EXIST) who would vote for a provincial NDP party, or the federal party for that matter, but ONLY if that provincial section or the federal section makes a show of looking much further to the right than it actually is, and much more inhospitable to its own left wing than it actually is.  That was the type of voter Dexter, and Bob Rae in Ontario once he'd won power, or Mulcair federally were obsessed with appeasing that type of the voter, and in the end all three chose to run what they had to have realized were doomed campaigns rather than deviating from that universally futile strategy.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..syryza is/was a left party, as was the socialist party they replaced, as was the spanish socialist party. they all eventually adopted the neoliberal agenda. as does the ndp..along with a few reforms. i admit the party is still the lesser of the evil but to call it left just because it is left of libs or cons is debatable. it is a capitalist party in that it's policies support a continuation of market and corporate dominance.

..by crying out that the notley gov is right wing caused a diversion from the thread topic. arguing that ignores the damage caused by the tar sands project that far outweighs all the good. the damage to alberta, to canada and to the world.

..as does the cry by the panelist distracts. in the opening thread the cry that lewis runs for public office. as if doing so is the way things get done. if that were true we wouldn't be having the many crisis' we face today.  

Pogo Pogo's picture

I agree.  Don't blame political parties for not leading the charge, they never will.  If you want change, you change peoples minds and build the support from below.

quizzical

  i got no respect for this guy now. mom thinks the sun rises on him. 

imv he's just another Ontarian big on themselves.

Sean in Ottawa

There seems to be two predominent views from the left:

1) you need to hold to whatever ideal they want you to and if you do not then you should go down to defeat and be replaced by something worse if necessary. Being idiologically pure is the priority.

or

2) you should push as far in the right direction as you can while still having a hope to retain enough support from your constituency to have power to make a difference tomorrow.

Notley is an extreme longshot to retain power and this is in large part due to how far she has gone. This is not the same as what happened in Nova Scotia where the NDP lost due to not going far enough.

Sure we can disagree with the policies of Alberta as a province if we want but to demonize the person who has pushed the hardest in several generations towards an alternative point of view does seem off. In the context Notley's positions are as good as they could be.

As well, you can disagree all you like but her argument is not without any merit: an attack on the producer is not going to reduce demand and the consequences of use of a product that is not completely replaceable.

Notley is attempting to mitigate as much as possible and to refine in Alberta as much as possible.

The locations of a pipeline must be subject to agreement where it passes but clearly Alberta has a right to be frustrated being boxed in and the argument against it being the preference to use similar foreign product. The debate is not about the safety of pipelines alone (which it could be) but instead the idea that restricting Alberta from producing will somehow reduce demand and cornering her could somehow produce better policies from alberta. Neither is true.

Notley is frustrated in part becuase she knows that even if there were 100% safe, perfect pipe many people would not allow it.

I think we keep leaving what I think is the real issue which is consumption. We don't seem to want to address that. The irony now is Eastern provinces against a pipeline wanting to cut back on any carbon tax proposal, energy conservation proposal or alternative energy funding. This is hypocrisy. Eastern provinces are increasing taking the position that they do not support anything green except opposing Alberta.

Alberta is in the same position as other countries: we complain about -- pollution in China yet we do little to stem the consumption of products creating that pollution. If the problem is consumption, as I think it is, a fair share of the pollution in China is rightfully ours.

We export jobs, pollution with the manufacturing, along with any sense of responsibility as consumers.

I think the emphasis on Alberta oil is not going to save the world. The emphasis ought to be on the consumption end. But that might actually cost us rather than Alberta or China. The real uncomfortable truth is that we want to consume as always and have somewhere else take the blame for our consumption -- like our garbage.

The venom against Notley is really driven by fear of having to take responsibility for our own shit.

The problem with global warming is not mostly what North America produces and sells to the world: it is what we consume here, much of it imported. If the east want a better environment change the order:

1) Cut consumption drastically while supporting alternative energy and new investment in Alberta for when oil is no longer in as high demand.

2) Worry about the Alberta production when we can be less hypocritical in our position.

Or we can continue to consume as we have, destroy the world, damage the Alberta economy and the most progressive government they have ever elected, elect regressive governments in the east, and feel good as we all go down the shitter.

No question that there are extermely inappropriate places to route a pipeline. But some are better than others. Sure a world where there aren't any is something to work towards: the way to that world is stopping consumption not NIMBY reactions. Yes, use of oil is inherently dangerous to the environment.

So instead of the rest of Canada just seeking to block in Alberta using foreign oil -- how about proposals from the rest of Canada for a better pipeline route than the ones on the table? Maybe a safer pipeline? Maybe more refining in place to reduce the volume being transported? Bringing enough East to take off dependency from foreign oil? Saying stop leave it in the ground while we import more and more is not reasonable. It is also not reasonable to turn our backs on the most progressive government in Alberta history to see it replaced by the UCP.

At least those who want to say that no pipelines should exist should support the radical consumption reduction policies that will cost them as well, and that would be less hypocritical. Those people can be respected at least.

Sorry in advance for the shitstorm that will come from pointing out that the East cannot have it both ways.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..there is a broad understanding on the left that capitalism is the root cause of our injustice and ecological crisis. that is what is not being addressed by the ndp including notley. the demand for pipelines is not mitigating the damage being done by the tar sands it's encouraging expansion at a faster rate. to say that the left has ignored consumption is inaccurate in my opinion. but like stopping corporations and governments from addressing extraction is incredibly difficult so is getting them to fund mass transit and other alternatives to the extent needed.

..it took the indigenous folk and support from their allies to stop trans mountain. it bodes well for us to understand this extraordinary event. indigenous folk stand against colonization, the invasion of their territory, their rights, their economy. as the way to actually interfer in what corporations and governments want to do to us. to it's citizens. to it's population. to the world. you want to understand how to change the world..understand this first. because changing the world is not just an intellectual exercise. it's actually doing something that matters.    

Pogo Pogo's picture

Blaming capitalism is giving consumers a pass they don't deserve. Manufacturing and transporting is done with goal of having products consumed. We need to work from the bottom up and stop consumption. Saying we need to dismantle capitalism first is tilting at windmills when we don't have time to waste on fruitless adventures. 

That said if we erode our consumption attitudes from the bottom up, much of the system will collapse anywise.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i posted at least 2 studies not so long ago that stated that something like 70 or 80 % of the carbon is created by 100 corporations. so we can focus, if we want on those corporations and change the way they do business.

..capitalism is not just commerce. it is neoliberalism. it is how decisions are made. it is trade deals. how money is spent. it is who we elect. it is what is being offered to consumers. it is media. it is environmental laws. it is colonization. cities are built around the car. while i agree the transformation of has to occur from the bottom up we no longer have the time to wait for that to happen before we change the economy..according to the latest un reports. we must do all of this simultaneously.

..so it's not a case of giving anyone a pass. everything must change.

Pogo Pogo's picture

https://medium.com/the-phoenix-project/a-usetarian-manifesto-simple-living-to-save-the-planet-4c593c887a7e

I think we will have to disagree on what the priorities are for me consumption is everything. That is why I think we need to move to a progressive consumption/wealth tax from our current income/no wealth tax. We need to declare war on consumption and once we do that anything that gets in the way will be cast aside.  Not as a mass movement against the system, which is destined to failure.  Rather it needs to grow from small groups teaching each other and learning to ignore/defeat the consumption messages.

Yes there are a few corporations burning the most carbon.  But they are doing it to provide consumables for people.  In the end consumption is about consumers, everything else is just a link in the chain.

WWWTT

@Pogo and epaulo

i agree with both of you. The pursuit of materialism/consumerism is an evil that many if not most people don’t recognize 

the government must educate people against me me materialism. The government also must reign in corporations and provide incentives for green renewables 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

pogo

..txs. if i may. what you call for, the war on consumption won't happen in a vacuum. from what i understand of change it will begin with where the resistance is at. where the struggle is at. the resistance seems to be a broad coalition that has been formed is forming under the banner of a just transition. at the heart of it is indigenous rights. so, in a way, its not a matter of what i believe or what you believe or what sean or quizz believes. it's where the resistance is at.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

WWWTT wrote:

@Pogo and epaulo

i agree with both of you. The pursuit of materialism/consumerism is an evil that many if not most people don’t recognize 

the government must educate people against me me materialism. The government also must reign in corporations and provide incentives for green renewables 

..which government is that wwwtt? :)

WWWTT

Federal and provincial in Canada 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..they won't do that. so an alternative needs to be found. in my world view it will come from the bottom up.

Pogo Pogo's picture

epaulo13 wrote:

..they won't do that. so an alternative needs to be found. in my world view it will come from the bottom up.

  On this we agree completely.  Plop in Margaret Mead quote ...

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think that if you want to stop our planet destroying consumerism you have to cut off its lifeblood. Everything people like about our media is paid for by advertising in one form or another. Corporations have the most sophisticated propaganda mills driving the consumption mania gripping the world.  Imagine if Canadians were not inundated by non-stop buy, buy, buy. Then instead of being sold they might consume only when they needed something.

I call Notely an oil shill. The problem with all the anaysis is that the oiligarchy has ramped up the production in the last decade and with shale oil has caused a glut on the market. In my wildest dreams the Chinese start pulling out of the tar sands and make it known that they will not be buying the product.

Pondering

Individually reducing consumption has been the plan for about the last 50 years. How's that working for us? It is a classic rightwing argument that we should act individually. I'm not a big consumer, I don't have enough money for that, but everything I buy is still overpackaged. The buses I ride use fossil fuels. I can't do anything about that as an individual. I can go on demonstrations or use my vote.

The Liberals promised free public transport but Legault won. As an individual, or even as a group of individuals, there is little we can do without government cooperation.

I have no control over planned obsolescence. I have an iphone4 I got when a relative got a new phone. It is more powerful than what I need. I'm sure it can handle any application thrown at it. Unfortunately when I try to get apps like for the buses I am told the system is outdated, I need 10 or above. On black friday my daughter said I should order google home mini because it was 55% off which brought it down to about 35$. So I did. It can't be controlled through a laptop. For some reason Google Home only works on tablets and phones, but not my phone.

So, I got an old tablet from my niece which does work. It isn't ideal because it won't sync with my phone. I really want to switch phones but I can't justify it. I'm going to wait but no more than a year and probably less if I can find a second hand android phone.

True, I did not have to get a google home mini, but my not getting a google home mini is not going to save the planet. That's like saying a single drop of water will contribute to creating a pond. It's only true if enough other people contribute. If they don't then I am just wasting my effort.

Acting individually can alert people to the issue but only acting collectively will have an impact. Government is the organization we created to act collectively. It is hijacked by the wealthy but it is still the only organization we have to act collectively.

It is in our nature to accumulate the things we want but that isn't the problem. We could all have all the things we want as average individuals. Having stuff in general isn't the problem. Without planned obsolescence, disposable furniture, etc. we could all be living very well.

It's true that we waste too much food in Canada as individuals but it is restaurants and food stores that waste in large quantities. Food is not what contaminates landfills. If there were nothing but food going in we would call it compost. Recycling is picked up but that isn't the stuff that contaminates our environment. It's the toxic stuff that needs to be picked up separately for disposal. The food I throw out would not otherwise be shipped to Africa.

Acting individually can help spread the word but to have an impact we must act collectively. The classic neoliberal/right wing answer to everything is to tell people to act individually.

WWWTT

 

epaulo13 wrote:

..they won't do that. so an alternative needs to be found. in my world view it will come from the bottom up.

Communist government of China is doing a huge chunk of what I described!

 

Mighty Middle

If Rachel Notlety gets defeated as Alberta Premier, would the NDP be able to speak with one voice on the pipeline? Because it seems the only way to have a consistent narrative on both the federal and provincial level, is for her to be removed from the conversation.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mighty Middle wrote:

If Rachel Notlety gets defeated as Alberta Premier, would the NDP be able to speak with one voice on the pipeline? Because it seems the only way to have a consistent narrative on both the federal and provincial level, is for her to be removed from the conversation.

Which pipeline?  The BC NDP supports some pipelines and fracking to provide the gas to fill it.

Mighty Middle

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Which pipeline?  The BC NDP supports some pipelines and fracking to provide the gas to fill it.

Sorry for not being clear - Transmountain and Keystone XL

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Sorry you missed the subtlety of my question. So I'll try again. Who cares about only one pipeline, its not like any any them are part of a climate chaos prevention plan. 

Mighty Middle

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Sorry you missed the subtlety of my question. So I'll try again. Who cares about only one pipeline, its not like any any them are part of a climate chaos prevention plan. 

Ah okay, gotcha!

Pogo Pogo's picture

Pondering wrote:
Individually reducing consumption has been the plan for about the last 50 years. How's that working for us? It is a classic rightwing argument that we should act individually. I'm not a big consumer, I don't have enough money for that, but everything I buy is still overpackaged. The buses I ride use fossil fuels. I can't do anything about that as an individual. I can go on demonstrations or use my vote.

I don't think for a moment we do this on the honor system.  We need to bring MADD level shame to overconsumption and conspicuous consumption.  We need to change our tax system to a progressive universal consumption/wealth tax.  We need to tax carbon and we need limit supply. 

You say we have been talking reducing consumption for 50 years.  I question that.  In the last 50 years the emphasis has been growth and expansion of the economy. Frugality and minimalism has lived in the shadows.

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

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