Have issues with Singh as leader? Here are the questions you have to answer:

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture
Have issues with Singh as leader? Here are the questions you have to answer:

If Jagmeet were to stand down as leader, it would likely take at least nine months, maybe a year, to have a new leadership contest.

That would leave a new leader with maybe a year to make an impression before the election.

1) Are Jagmeet's early problems as leader bad enough, in your view, to cost the party that much general election prep time?

2) Is there any possible replacement for Jagmeet that would be able, in THAT short a period of time, to unite the party and help it find a set of practical and radical policies that would appeal to the electorate?

blairz blairz's picture

Excellent points, but in all honesty I really can't imagine feeling less confident than I feel right now. I guess short of an out right palace coup, it might be time for somefolks in the party to at least raise some heat under his feet. His performance on CBC yesterday was pathetic. 

 

lagatta4

I was an Ashton supporter. Singh just doesn't come across as genuinely committed to social justice and to the left.

And no, this has nothing to some kind of Québec aversion to religious garments.

Caissa

I was a Caron supporter. I will hold my nose and reluctantly vote for a Singh lead NDP.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

I saw Mr. Singh on CPAC last night. He spoke of pharmacare and harm reduction for drug users, but did not address economic inequality. Disappointing.

If it turns out that Singh was elected by signing up thousands in a geographically narrow area, perhaps the NDP should think about changing the OMOV system and moving to something like what the Conservatives use.

Mighty Middle

progressive17 wrote:

I saw Mr. Singh on CPAC last night. He spoke of pharmacare and harm reduction for drug users, but did not address economic inequality. Disappointing.

If it turns out that Singh was elected by signing up thousands in a geographically narrow area, perhaps the NDP should think about changing the OMOV system and moving to something like what the Conservatives use.

But he did on CBC Power & Politics. Asked what his number #1 issue will be as NDP Leader, he said starting a movement to put Income Inequality on the national stage.

SocialJustice101

Singh comes accross as a Liberal.   Furthermore, how many working class people will be put off by his Turban?   I expect he will be a liability to the NDP.    A leaderless NDP would do better.

lagatta4

Of course I'll vote NDP federally, unless something more progressive comes along. Alas the Greens are irrelevant, and as for the Bloc ... how can someone like Gilles Duceppe who spent years organising immigrant workers in hotels and hospitals fall into niqab-baiting (I say that as someone who detests the niqab and think it is founded on hatred and erasure of women, not piety, but comparing a niqabi woman to an oil spill is gross racism)...

(I'll let my feminist colleagues of Muslim origin take on the niqab. I'll take on the effing crucifix, and we can all stand against private and confessional schools).

But the question is, will I bother volunteering? This may be an issue for many activists.

pietro_bcc

I don't support Singh as leader, but at the same time I don't think he should step down. A year and ten months out from an election now, it would take a year to have a leadership race so 10 months for a leader to get established isn't enough. In anycase Singh won't leave so this is all moot.

The NDP chose him and they're stuck with him for the next election, I won't be donating or volunteering, but will likely hold my nose and vote NDP.

Pondering

My gosh he only became the leader officially on October 1st. That's barely two months ago and his leadership is already being judged. It seems some of you were looking for an instastar. Have you forgotten the years since Trudeau became Liberal leader. How his numbers soared on nothing but his name then dove when he did nothing for two years? Then soared again?

I think Nikki Ashton is great but right now she doesn't have the politically saavy to win over Canadians. I was supporting Guy Caron because I hoped that as an economist he would have credibility but I don't know if he would have been able to convince Canadians. Angus is old-school politics. Maybe one of them would have done better than Singh in the past 2 months but it is by no means a given.

cco

lagatta4 wrote:

But the question is, will I bother volunteering? This may be an issue for many activists.

I, too, voted for Ashton. Singh was my last choice. Nevertheless, he won. I'm going to put my 2019 efforts into saving the furniture. If we can maintain official party status, we have a chance under the next leader in 2023. There are many good MPs in the Montréal area who deserve to keep their jobs (not to mention the jobs of the staff working in their offices), and I think in good conscience, I'll have to volunteer, unless Singh does something utterly deal-breaking, not merely incompetent.

josh

Not surprised he’s struggled.  He’s mostly style not substance.  If people want that, they already have a party leader to vote for.

SocialJustice101

josh wrote:

Not surprised he’s struggled.  He’s mostly style not substance.  If people want that, they already have a party leader to vote for.

Andrew "The Pillsbury Doughboy" Scheer?

lagatta4

Josh, that is exactly how I feel about Singh. I do get the impression that he is brighter than Trudeau, but also a bit vacuous. Actually, despite my misgivings, I probably will volunteer for the campaign, because the direct campaign is for my MP, Alexandre Boulerice, whom I very much want in Parliament.  After all, I certainly didn't like Mulcair.

At least in my riding, pretty much the same people volunteer for the NDP, QS and Projet Montréal...

Andrew Scheer has STYLE????

SocialJustice101

To clarify, I was being sarcasting about Scheer having a style.

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I supported Caron, because I thought he was the most likely to present a credible yet seriously left set of policies. I also thought he would do better than any of the others in Quebec. I rated Singh last on policies, but the fact that he speaks French put him ahead of Angus for me. I was disappointed by Singh's victory, but I will support the party here in Hamilton Centre as I always do.

I don't think it would be a good idea to try to replace Singh before the next election. Also, I am terrible at political prognostication, so perhaps he will catch fire before the election, and do much better than I pessimistically expect.

WWWTT

C'mon Ken Burch why the hell with this thread bro?!?!?!?!?

It's been barley two and a half months since Jagmeet has been leader.The NDP right now is getting black balled by the media at every turn, and now you want to join in on the media stampede to flatten the NDP????

Now Jag wasn't my first choice, but he's the leader now and he has to be given a little more time. This guy says it better.

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/b70f2b25-8f51-48e3-84a5-8c0fcf85c7c1

 

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Let's take a leaf out of the QS book and not get hung up on leadership. Let's hold the NDP's feet to the fire on economic inequality. There are literally hundreds of things we could do as a country and its administrative subdivisions about this.

On the "zero hours" precariat:
There are many of us who work, but cannot rely on a regular paycheck. Sometimes it is good, but much of the time it is bad. My Xmas plans were 40% ruined this year because of this. Here are some ideas:

- Expand the working income tax benefit (WITB) and or EI to take all workers who are expected to be available full time up to a minimum of the minimum wage on a paycheque to paycheque basis. Make employers who cannot or will not guarantee steady work pay premiums on their share of EI contributions (and perhaps even give them a discount if they have been good. I.E. use actuarial science to rate businesses and industries). Make it illegal for governments to raid the EI fund. 

- Atomize university and training courses into hour credits so a person who is temporarily off of work can learn a few things, do homework, practice, and take a micro-test for which there is an educational credit.

- Increase holiday pay to 8% as in France and many other places.

- Repeal laws against sympathy strikes against companies who screw workers.

- Return to rent controls with teeth.

- Dental, pharma, and optical care, as I admit the NDP have been talking about.

- Support for cultural workers. Not just sending SOCAN executives to LA on junkets and glitzy awards shows. Provincial laws that clubs have to pay the musicians' union scale (or if we allow sympathy strikes, no one is going to deliver the beer). A band needs more than just beer for the drummer. But tax and EI and CPP/QPP deducted at source. 

Although society would expect proof you are writing and painting and creating music (perhaps through schools), how about some kind of liveable stipend for doing so? This is a big part of our national heritage.

- Labour standards for couriers, many of whom get $250 a week for 60 hours.

Couillard says he wants to lift 100,000 people who can't work out of poverty in Quebec. What about those of us who can work? Income security for the economically unequal will float all boats. We will shovel the money into local, provincial, and national businesses (who will be taxed) making a virtous economic cycle.

Debater

Pondering wrote:

My gosh he only became the leader officially on October 1st. That's barely two months ago and his leadership is already being judged. It seems some of you were looking for an instastar. Have you forgotten the years since Trudeau became Liberal leader. How his numbers soared on nothing but his name then dove when he did nothing for two years? Then soared again?

Actually, it's important to remember that Trudeau didn't lose his lead in the polls until the Spring of 2015 when Rachel Notley won the Alberta Election and progressive voters began to coalesce behind Mulcair & the NDP until the Fall of 2015 when Trudeau moved ahead again.

From the time of his leadership win in Spring 2013, Trudeau maintained a lead in the polls for nearly 2 years until Spring 2015.

Plus, Trudeau's Liberals gained support in every by-election in 2013 & 2014, including picking up 2 seats, Labrador & Trinity-Spadina.

So, compared to the Trudeau Liberals in 2013 & 2014, Singh is underperforming.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

I was an Ashton supporter. Singh just doesn't come across as genuinely committed to social justice and to the left.

And no, this has nothing to some kind of Québec aversion to religious garments.

I was also an Ashton supporter and think it would help Singh to add Ashton's agenda to his own.  Her ideas are popular, even if some people were so hostile to her that they resorted to vicious personal attacks on her speech patterns, her personal appearance and their notions of who her supporters were just to stop her.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

My suggestion at this point would be to see if Singh is willing to listen to critique within the party and activism from within and without it.  Just saying it's not clear that pushing him out, at this stage, would lead the party with anyone better and whether anyone who replaced him would have time to make any meaningful impression prior to the election.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

(dupe post. Self-delete).

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT...this thread was meant as an alternative to anti-Jagmeet sentiment, not an endorsement of it.

Rev Pesky

From progressive17:

Let's hold the NDP's feet to the fire on economic inequality.

I agree with pretty much all of your reccomendations, but labour law in this country is provincial jurisdiction, except for those workers who are under federal jurisdiction (which is a very small part of the labour force - and most of which are already covered by union agreement).

As far as Singh as leader goes, in the past I have said the problem with the NDP is not necessarily the leadership. So, I don't think Singh is a great leader, but even if the situation was right for removing and replacing him, that wouldn't solve the party's problems.

Bedrock support for the NDP was originally from farmers and unionized workers. Unfortunately for the NDP, both of those groups have been decimated. Fewer and fewer farmers on larger and larger farms, and manufacturing industries moving out of country, leaving their union workforce unemployed.

I honestly don't know how to solve that situation, and it's apparent to me the NDP doesn't either. The NDP lacks direction, and until they figure that out, they're not going to make any major breakthrough.

josh

The NDP needs to present itself as a clear alternative to the Liberals by moving left.  Instead of trying to replace them.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Andrew Scheer has STYLE????

Work that runway!

And in case you didn't see the video.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Andrew Scheer has STYLE????

Work that runway!

And in case you didn't see the video.

He can really rock a "Dad shirt", I guess.

Mighty Middle

Toronto Sun columnist (and NDP Pundit) Tom Parkin has a beef with the Canadian Press about their story on the Scarborough by-election kick off (in the wrong riding). Jagmeet said it wasn't a kick-off but a "Jagmeet & Greet" where they introduced the candidate.

Parkin tweeting

Only took 37 hours and 25 minutes--Canadian Press has finally issued a correction, admitting it "erroneously" reported the NDP kicked-off a by-elxn campaign from the "wrong riding." The reporter never fact-checked the false and damaging story with NDP media officers.

https://twitter.com/Tom_Parkin_/status/941443998048235520

Damage done. No apology. The original story is still on web sites.

https://twitter.com/Tom_Parkin_/status/941447231751770112

they were presented with incontrovertible evidence their story was wrong yesterday morning. This is an ethical problem.

https://twitter.com/Tom_Parkin_/status/941455016866516994

Pondering

Debater wrote:

Actually, it's important to remember that Trudeau didn't lose his lead in the polls until the Spring of 2015 when Rachel Notley won the Alberta Election and progressive voters began to coalesce behind Mulcair & the NDP until the Fall of 2015 when Trudeau moved ahead again.

From the time of his leadership win in Spring 2013, Trudeau maintained a lead in the polls for nearly 2 years until Spring 2015.

Plus, Trudeau's Liberals gained support in every by-election in 2013 & 2014, including picking up 2 seats, Labrador & Trinity-Spadina.

So, compared to the Trudeau Liberals in 2013 & 2014, Singh is underperforming.

That was based on name recognition, dissatisfaction with Harper and an unknown leading the NDP, because Mulcair was not well known across Canada. Singh is in a completely different situation than Trudeau was in during the years preceding the election.

Unlike Trudeau Singh is facing a popular PM in his first mandate and Singh does not have the most popular PM in modern Canadian history as his father.

Singh has literally been leader for only 2 and a half months. When Mulcair was doing poorly posters here were defending him and saying the NDP doesn't flip on leaders.

I see two possible reasons for the NDP's loss of support in the by-elections. People went Liberal because the Liberals are incumbant and it's considered beneficial if your MP is part of the party in power. Two, contrary to polls Singh's turban is a problem. Singh hasn't been around long enough to have a significant impact on the NDP's popularity based on policy or lack thereof.

Cody87

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Andrew Scheer has STYLE????

Work that runway!

And in case you didn't see the video.

LOL.

There's a lot wrong with that video, but am I the only one who was completely distracted from whatever he was saying by waiting for the next "interruption?"

Anyway, back to Singh. I'm probably representative of the demographic the NDP wants to reach (in that I may or may not vote NDP in any given election, including the next one), and I've seen nothing I consider a problem from Singh that would make me reluctant to vote for him. 

What I'm seeing here is a lot of people complaining that Singh isn't pure progressivism distilled into human form. Some reasonable comparisons are being made to Mulcair, who was a liberal, but so far there is one important difference that is being overlooked (I think! - correct me if I'm wrong), and that's leadership style. The issue with Mulcair wasn't that he a liberal, the problem was that he was a liberal and an autocrat. I find it quite disheartening that so many NDP supporters are still stuck in the mindset that the leader needs to personally have all the answers. Singh's job is to sell the NDP and NDP's policies to the general population - it's not to set the policies. Mulcair didn't even try to do that. Mulcair tried to sell Mulcair and Mulcair's policies to the general population. The top job of a party leader is to sell the party - something Trudeau did well last election by making a lot of noise about all the talented recruits he had for the party.

So I guess what I'm saying is, Singh himself doesn't need "substance" (whatever that means) any more than Trudeau did. He just needs to a) sell the NDP, b) surround himself with competent people who have "substance" and are in line with the NDP's values, and c) sell those people. If he goes the Mulcair route and tries to run everything personally, that's a different story - but if he's done so, I haven't seen it yet. Otherwise, get over 2014/15's talking points and put things in perspective. Singh is the fairly elected leader and that should be a good enough indication that he's the best on offer at this time. Running against Trudeau and Scheer, there's no reason for the NDP to betray him unless he betrays the NDP.

SocialJustice101

Mighty Middle wrote:
Toronto Sun columnist (and NDP Pundit) Tom Parkin has a beef with the Canadian Press about their story on the Scarborough by-election kick off (in the wrong riding). Jagmeet said it wasn't a kick-off but a "Jagmeet & Greet" where they introduced the candidate.
Why couldn't they hold the meeting in the soon-to-be-contested riding less than a kilimeter away, especially if the new by-election candidate was in attendance???   I'm very well aware of the media bias, but you really have to question the NDP organizers' thinking here.

WWWTT

Why couldn't they hold the meeting in the soon-to-be-contested riding less than a kilimeter away, especially if the new by-election candidate was in attendance???   I'm very well aware of the media bias, but you really have to question the NDP organizers' thinking here.

Yes and no. I’m sure several riding associations were in attendance and the location was probably just a convenient selection without much thought going into it. Now after seeing how quickly the media jumped into this to manipulate the facts to black ball Jagmeet and the NDP perfectly shows the uphill battle the NDP face! From here on in Jagmeet is going to have to look over his shoulder before he can even fart!

SeekingAPolitic...

He was my last choice I wanted Caron.  I still drool over the 300 billion in new revenue over 10 years and pledge to finally rid the country of poverty.  But I have to acknowledge  Singh won that is sad to me because opportunity lost.  Yet more 50 % voted for him in the first round.  I will vote NDP as long as he runs left of Truduea.  I have to respect the wishes of those voted for him regardless I think he will responsible for fiasco of historic terms.  He is the leader until the election failure happens I will not be over critical of his leadership.  It just counter productive at this point, we have to work with the situation as it is.  I think populism is the future sadly Singh has no credibilty as a populist.  You wonder why I think Caron was radical and populist.  300,000,000,000 collected over 10 ten years, the potential to expand the services the state provides was enormous.  

Rev Pesky

From WWWTT:

I’m sure several riding associations were in attendance and the location was probably just a convenient selection without much thought going into it.

Well, I agree with that assessment.

Pondering

SeekingAPoliticalHome wrote:

He was my last choice I wanted Caron.  I still drool over the 300 billion in new revenue over 10 years and pledge to finally rid the country of poverty.  But I have to acknowledge  Singh won that is sad to me because opportunity lost.  Yet more 50 % voted for him in the first round.  I will vote NDP as long as he runs left of Truduea.  I have to respect the wishes of those voted for him regardless I think he will responsible for fiasco of historic terms.  He is the leader until the election failure happens I will not be over critical of his leadership.  It just counter productive at this point, we have to work with the situation as it is.  I think populism is the future sadly Singh has no credibilty as a populist.  You wonder why I think Caron was radical and populist.  300,000,000,000 collected over 10 ten years, the potential to expand the services the state provides was enormous.  

I liked Caron too but Singh may be the better front man. I hope he taps Caron for help with his economic program.

Singh wants to make inequality his number 1 issue. depending on how he approaches it it could be exactly what the NDP needs. Just don't expect him to show all his cards immediately.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

He should tap Caron on economics, Ashton on social movements and young voters, and Angus on old-school Anglo working-class types.

R.E.Wood

Singh's early problems have confirmed to me that he isn't ready for the job of federal leader. His experience is inadequate. He's a poor debater. He comes across as arrogant, while also too often looking like a deer in the headlights, not knowing what he's talking about and resorting to being "offended" about things with a fake Social Justice Warrior veneer. Etc., etc., etc.,... He's a deeply flawed candidate who managed to portray himself as the NDP's version of Trudeau (with massive help from the media, who love a flashy story, and then love a subsequent blood-bath even more), and managed to convince enough people that his flash would equal success, entered the race late and sucked up all the oxygen in the room, and of course he signed up a lot of members in a small geographic area (or two) in order to overwhelm the rest of the voting membership across the country. It worked. Perfectly.

But now we're faced with the current situation, which is disastrous, and I don't think there's a way out of it. Singh is surrounding himself with his own team, and evidence points to internal strife amongst the party and MP's, all of which will lead to further disaster.  The NDP is carrying a huge debt load (5.5 million, last I heard), lacks any clear policy direction, has an invisible leader who's done nothing but goof-up since winning, and blames its failure on members not forking over enough $$$ for them to win. There's still no communication from the party to members other than near-daily fundraising emails. And I have not seen any show of outreach from Singh to Angus or Ashton (or their supporters) since the leadership vote. Of course he put Caron in as House Leader, which was a nice gesture, but I have yet to see the media cover anything that Caron has said or done.

I not only think Singh is incompetent, I now think the party itself (as it is currently constituted) is incompetent, and if I were to bet now I'd suggest that the NDP stands to lose official party status in the next election. It could well be the worst showing ever. As has been stated earlier in this thread, it'll be a "save the furniture" election, and I just hope a few strong MP's survive it (like Boulerice) who could lead and rebuild in the future.

But to answer the initial question of this thread: I don't think there is any way to get rid of Singh before the next election. There's no way he would leave of his own instigation, and there's no way for him to be pushed out (even if a coup were attempted it would just hurt the party's public image even more). He won on a flawed first ballot. I agree with the other poster who suggested the NDP needs to change its OMOV system to something more like the Conservatives have, with regional representation. 

R.E.Wood

But then, what do I know? Apparently the fundraising is going great! Email just in from Jagmeet:

_______,

I just got off the stage at an event in Toronto, and learned that we hit our $50,000 target in less than 72 hours!

This is incredible news, _______. That support is going to help us prepare for upcoming by-elections and give us the tools we need to win.

But we’re just getting started. We need organizers on the ground across the country in 2018, and we only have until December 31 to make sure we have the resources to do it.

Chip in $250 right now and join the thousands of other New Democrats who have helped get us ready for 2018 – and if you do it before December 31 at midnight, you’ll get up to $___* back in tax credits.

If we’re going to form the first NDP government in the history of Canada in 2019, it means our 2018 has to be pretty special – and with your support, _______, it will be.

This is the best time to give, ______. Get $___* back at tax time when you donate $250 before December 31.

With love and courage,

Jagmeet Singh
Leader
Canada’s NDP

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
Singh wants to make inequality his number 1 issue. depending on how he approaches it it could be exactly what the NDP needs. Just don't expect him to show all his cards immediately.

Is it too much to expect him to even show up for the by-election campaigns, which by all accounts he was nowhere to be seen? Even PC Premier Brian Pallister showed up for a by-election campagin in a poor urban Winnipeg riding where a good showing for his party is to exceed 20% of the vote. If he can show up to bolster the morale with his troops, what's Jagmeet's excuse?

Aristotleded24

Pondering wrote:
Singh's turban is a problem.

What are you trying to say here? I hope it's not to pander to racist sentiment and suggest that Singh should not have been selected on that basis. In this part of the country, having dark skin is also a potential liability to running for public office, but we have to be true to our values and be honest about who we are. Running away does nothing to dispel bigotry.

Mighty Middle

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Even PC Premier Brian Pallister showed up for a by-election campagin in a poor urban Winnipeg riding where a good showing for his party is to exceed 20% of the vote. If he can show up to bolster the morale with his troops, what's Jagmeet's excuse?

The NDP had a lack of funds for airfare to send Jagmeet to visit the 3 ridings. Scarborough was local.

JeffWells

lagatta4 wrote:

I was an Ashton supporter. Singh just doesn't come across as genuinely committed to social justice and to the left.

And no, this has nothing to some kind of Québec aversion to religious garments.

This goes for me as well. IMO Singh's victory signalled the irrevocable Liberalization of the NDP, or at least the point at which I can't fool myself any longer about the party's bearing. So essentially for the first time ever I consider myself partyless. There's saddness in letting go, but it's also liberating.

I wish Singh success, but it will be as irrelevent to me as Trudeau's.

Labour, the poor and the Left need a party. The NDP isn't it anymore, and I've finally given up hope that it ever could be again.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Pondering wrote:

 

 

That was based on name recognition, dissatisfaction with Harper and an unknown leading the NDP, because Mulcair was not well known across Canada. Singh is in a completely different situation than Trudeau was in during the years preceding the election.

Unlike Trudeau Singh is facing a popular PM in his first mandate and Singh does not have the most popular PM in modern Canadian history as his father.

Singh has literally been leader for only 2 and a half months. When Mulcair was doing poorly posters here were defending him and saying the NDP doesn't flip on leaders.

I see two possible reasons for the NDP's loss of support in the by-elections. People went Liberal because the Liberals are incumbant and it's considered beneficial if your MP is part of the party in power. Two, contrary to polls Singh's turban is a problem. Singh hasn't been around long enough to have a significant impact on the NDP's popularity based on policy or lack thereof.

I respectfully disagree. Trudeau won because of his populist message and the Liberals progressive platform.

Sure,a lot of people wanted pretty much anyone but more of Harper but it's extremely evident that Canadians were and are ready for  progressive politics and a progressive gov't.

The NDP shit the bed. And I don't think it was because Canadians didn't know Thomas Mulcair...if anything,they knew him well.

The Liberals progressive message will bleed into 2019 with their promise to fight poverty with a national housing plan.

The NDP and Liberals have flipped scripts with the NDP coming across as deeply establishment and the Liberals populist.

Quite honestly I'm excited with the direction is going. So far a majority of Canadians still are buying what the Liberals are selling. Scheer is a wiener who will only do well in the Prairies. Singh just doesn't have a left wing message,he's coming across like a classic 90's era Liberal.

brookmere

Mighty Middle wrote:
The NDP had a lack of funds for airfare to send Jagmeet to visit the 3 ridings. Scarborough was local.

Singh could have hit up a few of his campaign donors for the money. Even better, he could have hosted a fundraiser in Surrey.

robbie_dee

Jeez, people Jagmeet has only been on the job a couple of months. I’m disappointed that he didn’t seem to get more of a “bump” to start out but Scheer is not doing much either. I think it’s just that Trudeau remains pretty popular, particularly among people in the NDP’s voting “universe”. IMO the ideological differences between the four candidates were quite overstated, and I don’t think ideology is the reason for the NDPs poor performance in any case. Ride this out. Keep talking to your neighbors. Volunteer. Donate money if you are able. It looks like this may be a long slog but none of us joined the NDP because we thought it would be easy. Jagmeet won the leadership fair and square, by a convincing margin, under the rules we all agreed to in advance. We have to go forward with him. We can reassess after the next election.

WWWTT

We can reassess after the next election.

Agreed! Now's not the time for second guessing. Now's the time to strategize and analyze the best way moving forward.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mighty Middle wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Even PC Premier Brian Pallister showed up for a by-election campagin in a poor urban Winnipeg riding where a good showing for his party is to exceed 20% of the vote. If he can show up to bolster the morale with his troops, what's Jagmeet's excuse?

The NDP had a lack of funds for airfare to send Jagmeet to visit the 3 ridings. Scarborough was local.

Pretty sure he gets paid enough to buy plane tickets out of his own salary if necessary, and somebody could put him up at their house overnight if it came to that.  And the only place he have had to fly to was B.C.-if it came to that, you can DRIVE to the Maritimes probably or take Via Rail.  It would look very "common touch".

Mighty Middle

Ken Burch wrote:

Mighty Middle wrote:

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Even PC Premier Brian Pallister showed up for a by-election campagin in a poor urban Winnipeg riding where a good showing for his party is to exceed 20% of the vote. If he can show up to bolster the morale with his troops, what's Jagmeet's excuse?

The NDP had a lack of funds for airfare to send Jagmeet to visit the 3 ridings. Scarborough was local.

Pretty sure he gets paid enough to buy plane tickets out of his own salary if necessary, and somebody could put him up at their house overnight if it came to that.  And the only place he have had to fly to was B.C.-if it came to that, you can DRIVE to the Maritimes probably or take Via Rail.  It would look very "common touch".

Visiting a riding is not as simple as just buying a plane ticket, there are other costs as well. I think the Party assessed whether it was worth the funds to spend on a campaign they knew they were going to lose and opted to not spend anything as money seems to be really tight.

Sitting NDP MPs are being docked expense money from Board of Internal Economy for the Satallite Offices. Every dollar the Board of Internal Economy docks from an NDP MP, they in turn submit a claim for reimbursement from the Party.

https://www.hilltimes.com/2017/11/06/ndps-court-challenge-boie-decision-...

Plus there are legal fees the NDP is paying to fight this in court. On top of that they are about 5.5 Million in debt and now paying Jagmeet a salary.

So they need to be careful with their money, and sending Jagmeet off to tour in ridings they knew they were going to lose, didn't seem cost effective to the NDP.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It would look very "common touch".

It would look very "The NDP is broke".

Mighty Middle

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
It would look very "common touch".

It would look very "The NDP is broke".

Optics is everything and when you send the leader out to campaign there are certain "trappings" that must be associated with a leader (the right car to drive up to the event for instance). That is why I said it is not as simple as buying a plane ticket. There are other costs as well.

brookmere

Mighty Middle wrote:
Optics is everything and when you send the leader out to campaign there are certain "trappings" that must be associated with a leader (the right car to drive up to the event for instance).
God forbid that the leader of the NDP spend a day living like the ordinary voter. GQ might not invite him back for another spread.

In any case I don't think it's about money. I suspect that the candidates in the other 3 ridings might not have been openly supportive of him in the leadership campaign, or maybe he just does't feel like appearing in contests he can't win.

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