Minimum Wage

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SeekingAPolitic...

Please forgive me If am bastardizing Marx and Engels ideas.  But idea that working for yourself and producing a commodity as a craftsperson(petty commodity production) has been consistent with modes of production since the birth of the simple exchange economy.  

If I recall correctly Marx used the idea of a horse drawn carriage for further explain the relationship of production.  The role of the craftperson or self employed person was minimaxed to a trivial role as feudalism gave way to capitalism.  Capitalist discovered the specialization of labour was much much more efficient on the factory floor and than craftpersons production.  Its much cheaper and less time consuming to make something in factory than by handcraft.  So the role of the petty commodity production has become trivial in an advanced economy.

So I would agree the craftsperson is not commodity but you still have buy inputs, pay rent, borrow money to maintain a healthy business.  Your exploited in a different way than wage labour. Regardless of who your employer is government or private sector.

Some may think that being a contractor and self employment is the way to go.  I remember but I do not know the current status of the program in the UK.  But the conservatives have tried to transfer the unemployed into self employed(It is or was a major program with lot of government backing).  When I was reading about the program it was ugly reading, I will try to get a update on the scheme.  

SeekingAPolitic...
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Capitalist discovered the specialization of labour was much much more efficient on the factory floor and than craftpersons production.

Perhaps they did.  But that shouldn't have stopped (and seems not to have stopped) craftspersons from doing their thing.

Even in 2018, if you would like to purchase handmade furniture, made by a craftsperson, you can.  Only yesterday I walked past an establishment that sells such crafts -- Hart and Hive, on College St., in Toronto.  They had in their window a lovely, hand-made hallway bench for only $2800.

Quote:
So I would agree the craftsperson is not commodity but you still have buy inputs, pay rent, borrow money to maintain a healthy business.  Your exploited in a different way than wage labour.

Really?  Can't you just cut your own wood, do your crafting in your own home and sell your wares?

If I can own my own home and build a giant model railroad in my basement, why couldn't I also set up a "bespoke" furniture business in that same basement?  Or, for that matter run a hundred other different businesses out of that same basement? 

Pondering

Mr. Magoo wrote:
I'm really not trying to be "anti-labour" here, but what makes labour an exception?

Because labour is an action performed by a person, not a thing.  Law of supply and demand applied to labour leads to serfdom.  Free market capitalists do want labour to be treated as a commodity like any other while corporations are treated as persons

Mr. Magoo wrote:
OK.  But to be fair, if the government had overseen all aspects of rail safety, and Lac Megantic still happened, would you suggest that the government is too lax, and support private oversight?
I don't only blame the industry. The industry lobbied government but it is the government that folded. Perhaps some things can be delivered more cost efficiently by private companies without reducing quality, safety, or worker wages. When that is the case then private companies should be hired.
Mr. Magoo wrote:
Then why do companies who seem obsessed with the bottom line seem to want to hire CEOs and pay them huge amounts?
I don't know. Maybe they are scratching each other's backs. Somehow the 1% is transferring the wealth of nations into their own pockets. This seems to be one of the ways they are doing it.

One thing I've learned from all the talent shows (American's got talent, American Idol, The voice, The launch) is that there are many incredibly talented people out there. Far more than can become stars. There is a lot of luck involved on top of the hard work.  Top CEOs are there because of their connections and family backgrounds. Like Miley Cyrus they didn't have to win a talent contest, they are born to it.

From the 1930s to the 1980s CEO pay was 1 million or under.

From 1978 to 2012 CEO pay jumped 895% to 14.1 million

Worker compensation rose 5.4% over the same period

 <http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/21/opinion/sutter-swiss-executive-pay/index.html>

My gut tells me there is something wrong about that, or maybe it's just my greed. Either way I don't need some complicated argument to tell me that's off. I want me and my friends to get some of that.

Mr. Magoo wrote:
I'm not saying we have to be Steve Jobs.  But if you and I know as much as any overpaid CEO, why shouldn't we just start our own company and make a million?  Our company doesn't have to be Apple for us to live very comfortably.
Not everyone is capable of that. Some people are going to sweep floors. They need a living wage too.
Mr. Magoo wrote:
I just think it's interesting that an automated order kiosk at a McDonalds, or a self-serve checkout at Loblaws, or a self-driving taxi would be seen as taking away good jobs, but an industrial dishwasher, a soda machine, traffic lights, ATMs, or self-serve gas pumps aren't.
I don't have a problem with automation. Someone suggested raising minimum wage would increase automation. My response to is there is no need to hold back progress as "make work" projects.

We know that inequality creates societal problems like  poverty, crime, increased use of emergency services and health care.  We don't all have to make exactly the same income. I am sure there are formulas in existence to tell us how big the middle class should be for a society to be peaceful, healthy and happy.

The "free market" is  "might makes right" applied to the economy not some natural self-balancing economic system.

SeekingAPolitic...

Quote:

Capitalist discovered the specialization of labour was much much more efficient on the factory floor and than craftpersons production.

 

Perhaps they did.  But that shouldn't have stopped (and seems not to have stopped) craftspersons from doing their thing.

Even in 2018, if you would like to purchase handmade furniture, made by a craftsperson, you can.  Only yesterday I walked past an establishment that sells such crafts -- Hart and Hive, on College St., in Toronto.  They had in their window a lovely, hand-made hallway bench for only $2800.

You missed.

But idea that working for yourself and producing a commodity as a craftsperson(petty commodity production) has been consistent with modes of production since the birth of the simple exchange economy.

=

Being craftspersons have been around since the dawn of the barter economy.  And they will around into the future because some people as crave status that handcraft provides in a world of increasing automation.   

So the role of the petty commodity production has become trivial in an advanced economy.

=

I live in a community of 40,000 we have nothing in the city that demands something like that kind with a 2800 price point.  Such a business exists because they cater to a very small part of the community.  Marx never said the petty commodity production will stop. My conclusion(not sure what Marx and Engles said) such business becoming increasingly trivial in the economy capitalist economy.

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Really?  Can't you just cut your own wood, do your crafting in your own home and sell your wares?

If I can own my own home and build a giant model railroad in my basement, why couldn't I also set up a "bespoke" furniture business in that same basement?  Or, for that matter run a hundred other different businesses out of that same basement? 

Seeking Response

Sure you can, but some individual in a factory will produce something similar at a fraction of the price and fraction of the time.  Remember your customer are the wealthy because your priced out of other sectors of the market.  Maybe your the lucky few with something a rich person will buy for status.  But even then status usually comes with limited production because of the idea the more production means its no longer rare item.  

Rev Pesky

From Seeking A Politic...

If I can own my own home and build a giant model railroad in my basement, why couldn't I also set up a "bespoke" furniture business in that same basement?  Or, for that matter run a hundred other different businesses out of that same basement? 

You would find that zoning regulations usually prevent you from running a manufacturing business out of your home.

Unionist

What's the going wage for diverting a babble thread? Can you legally do it in a residential area? So many fertile areas of research.

SeekingAPolitic...

Rev Pesky wrote:

From Seeking A Politic...

If I can own my own home and build a giant model railroad in my basement, why couldn't I also set up a "bespoke" furniture business in that same basement?  Or, for that matter run a hundred other different businesses out of that same basement? 

You would find that zoning regulations usually prevent you from running a manufacturing business out of your home.

Let edit my response, I was quoting + answering Magoo.  

 

NorthReport
Unionist

From the article:

Quote:
Canada once had a federal minimum wage, but it was eliminated by the Liberal Chretien government in 1996.

Yes, it was eliminated - with the support of the NDP at the time. The pretext was that this would provide an immediate wage increase in some provinces where the minimum was higher. Two decades later, that short-term opportunism is still unresolved.

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