NDP caucus present "plan b" if Singh loses by-election - Nathan Cullen or Guy Caron as leader In 2019 election

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

He is good at doing something that an honourable person would not do. I always thought his main interest was himself and not the party.

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

He is good at doing something that an honourable person would not do. I always thought his main interest was himself and not the party.

"His main interest was himself"? Which is why he resigned a provincial cabinet position and ran for a federal party that had never won a seat in Québec in a general election, ever?

The NDP was crazy lucky to snag him and use his talents for a few years, including becoming official opposition. I don't agree with Mulcair's political positions on most issues (primarily because they're indistinguishable from the NDP's), but "self interest" seems like a shaky analysis of his role and motives.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Yes I have often heard that line about him however his behavior now taking the money to dis the party does not support that hypothesis. I was speculating on his motives in light of his behavior not his job search history. He is and was always a liberal so frankly I have never bought the selfless crusader for the cause line.

WWWTT

Unionist wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

He is good at doing something that an honourable person would not do. I always thought his main interest was himself and not the party.

"His main interest was himself"? Which is why he resigned a provincial cabinet position and ran for a federal party that had never won a seat in Québec in a general election, ever?

The NDP was crazy lucky to snag him and use his talents for a few years, including becoming official opposition. I don't agree with Mulcair's political positions on most issues (primarily because they're indistinguishable from the NDP's), but "self interest" seems like a shaky analysis of his role and motives.

Revisionalist history Unionist

Kropotkin pretty much hit the nail on the head. Mulcair left the Charest government because of some kind of cabinet shuffle, not to join the NDP! Mulcair actually pursued or looked into joining the conservatives and the liberals  both at the federal level.

Now I'm sure Mulcair at the time had a very strong grasp/understanding as to what was happening on the ground in Quebec. And clearly he was at least at one time a very good politician and an intellect! I also believe that Mulcair was crucial to the orange wave in 2011 in Quebec (possibly the rest of Canada to?)

But those days are gone and Mulcair can no longer stand/hide behind those past accomplishments anymore. I'm not still entirely sure the NDP should write him off just yet? Mulcair may be up to something that still may be of great value and or help to the NDP? 

From my perspective he appears self centered.

As a side note, Mulcair first joined the federal NDP in 1974, holds French citizenship and probably has the best voice of any politician I have ever heard live face to face!!! Despite my belief that he is a sellfish materialistic person, I still believe that he is a good man! 

pietro_bcc

WWWTT wrote:

Unionist wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

He is good at doing something that an honourable person would not do. I always thought his main interest was himself and not the party.

"His main interest was himself"? Which is why he resigned a provincial cabinet position and ran for a federal party that had never won a seat in Québec in a general election, ever?

The NDP was crazy lucky to snag him and use his talents for a few years, including becoming official opposition. I don't agree with Mulcair's political positions on most issues (primarily because they're indistinguishable from the NDP's), but "self interest" seems like a shaky analysis of his role and motives.

Revisionalist history Unionist

Kropotkin pretty much hit the nail on the head. Mulcair left the Charest government because of some kind of cabinet shuffle, not to join the NDP! Mulcair actually pursued or looked into joining the conservatives and the liberals  both at the federal level.

Now I'm sure Mulcair at the time had a very strong grasp/understanding as to what was happening on the ground in Quebec. And clearly he was at least at one time a very good politician and an intellect! I also believe that Mulcair was crucial to the orange wave in 2011 in Quebec (possibly the rest of Canada to?)

But those days are gone and Mulcair can no longer stand/hide behind those past accomplishments anymore. I'm not still entirely sure the NDP should write him off just yet? Mulcair may be up to something that still may be of great value and or help to the NDP? 

From my perspective he appears self centered.

As a side note, Mulcair first joined the federal NDP in 1974, holds French citizenship and probably has the best voice of any politician I have ever heard live face to face!!! Despite my belief that he is a sellfish materialistic person, I still believe that he is a good man! 

Mulcair didn't leave the Charest government because of some cabinet shuffle.

He was fired as environment minister because he refused to sign off on a plan to privatize Mount Orford National Park to sell off the land to developers to build condominiums... Oh wait, that goes against the established narrative that Mulcair is a right winger. Forget it, sorry for bringing it up.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

There is no doubt that he quit over losing his cabinet post and that seems to have been for very good reason. Given he is a human with complicated motivations I know I will not state that one motivation i.e. losing the prestige and power within the party or saving the park was the deciding factor. I know when I make tough life decisions many thing are taken into account including my family's financial welfare. He recruited the team that swept Quebec and then muzzled and whipped them into his centrist image. Now he is making money while hurting the party he lead. Its not like he is unemployed and desperate for a job.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Former leaders of parties are supposed to be elder statesmen not political commentators trashing their successor.

Good point.

Mulcair may feel badly treated and is trying to return the favour. That would reflect extremely badly on his character and it would prove the point of those who withheld support.


There is a logic in Mulcair's comments here, though...a cold, bitter, vindictive logic, but a logic nonetheless: Mulcair has a vested personal interest in seeing the NDP do badly under his successor...if the party gains seats and votes in a campaign led by the person who succeeded him, even though it is clear that that person played no personal role in his ouster, it means that Mulcair was not indispensible and it vindicates the decision to force him out. 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

IMO it's really the Canadian left which needs to develop a Plan B, though it's too late for 2019.

..i totally agree with this. i supported ashton in the leadership race because of the positions she took. especially her position on movements. since then i've had a chance to listen to her at that big meet with sanders + that was held not to long ago. and then again in a real news interview. at the sanders meet, at the main plenary on the first day, she never even mention the indigenous struggles going on. nor it's victories re pipelines. as for the real news interview she did but only after being prodded. otherwise in both the cases i cite she talks about the libs and cons. this is different when listening to corbyn or even sanders. alternatives flow out of their mouths like water. no prodding needed. they understand the radical changes needed. ashton not so much. she may one day but not now.   

..the ndp leadership is third way. this includes the caucus. this includes the provinces. i've never heard ashton talk about this like corbyn does. she probably wouldn't last long in the party if she did but that is what is going on in the ndp right now. and until that changes there is no use having expectations that a new leader will be different. there needs to be a different path forward. imho.

eta: the person who stole the show at the bernie meet, at least on the day i listened, was the mayor of barcelona ada colau.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i posted this in the unist'ot'en thread but it could be a "plan b" for the left.

A Peoples' Assembly could help First Nations assert their own sovereignty

Canada’s military assault against the Wet'suwet'en nation, the RCMP’s media blackout of the forceful removal of leaders from their land, and the access given to private contractors while the nation’s members were barred is only the latest example of how this country has failed Indigenous peoples and violated their sovereignty. Canada has shown its true colours as a violent petro-state, controlled by corporate interests and perpetuating colonialism for private gains.

Alberta’s premier, Rachel Notley, and Prime Minister Justin Trudeau declared that Kinder Morgan’s Trans Mountain pipeline will be built despite massive opposition from local municipalities, the government of British Columbia, and citizens, but the army was not brought in against them, and B.C.’s premier, John Horgan, was not forcefully removed. Canada has a particular willingness to trample First Nations’ rights.

quote:

Trudeau likes to claim that Canada supports nation-to-nation discussions on important issues, that Indigenous peoples are consulted and that their voices are heard and included in the decision-making process. This is at best a patronizing farce meant to invalidate any future objections. In an emergency meeting between Alberta, B.C., and Canada, Indigenous leaders were never considered for inclusion. As a colonial power, Canada continues to redefine Indigenous peoples’ power in whatever way is most advantageous and convenient to the private interests of the rich.

Canada and its constitution have failed Canadians and Indigenous peoples. Self-determination is a fundamental value of democracy. Ordinary people must have control over the decisions that concern them. We cannot be democrats and accept that the Canadian federation can force the will of oil companies on the peoples of Canada, who are speaking and acting out against this project and others like it.

There is only one solution. We need a Peoples’ Assembly to talk about sovereignty, not just for Quebec, but for Indigenous peoples. We need a new arrangement for people outside of the major power centres of Ottawa and Bay Street to ensure that Canadians can protect their drinking water without their access to health care being threatened.

The only party calling for such an assembly is Quebec Solidaire. As anglophones, we can force this dialogue to reflect the fundamental problems of our society: sovereignty for Indigenous peoples to govern themselves and their land traditionally, power for ordinary people to protect their land, and sovereignty from Ottawa but also from Bay Street and international capitalists.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
Ashton would be the best choice, but the party establishment would work all-out to stop her and, if she was elected, I wouldn't rule it out that they might sabotage her in the way the Labour right sabotaged Michael Foot's chances in the 1983 election if she did win

I'm not at all worried about that happening. After the next election the NDP Establishment will be so thoroughly discredited that any attempt to marginalize Ashton will most likely backfire. Plus, what's left of the NDP Caucus after the election (assuming that the NDP even retains official party status) will be so shell-shocked by the results that they will all rally behind whomever the membership chooses as leader, even if whoever wins the leadership does so without the support of a single sitting MP.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

After the decision to back the Charlottetown Accord and Liberal lies about free trade and the GST the NDP went from 43 seat to 9 in 1993.  The party's central campaign was Ontario focused and they didn't manage to win a single seat East of the Manitoba border. We are about to see the same thing happen again. The only NDP MP's that will be left standing will be the ones like in '93 who have deep personal roots in their communities and can win despite the party not because of it.

Aristotleded24

Further to your point krop, not only has the party failed to break through in Ontario, but the party treats "Ontario" as if it is a monolithic block, when there are just as many differences within Ontario as there are between Ontario and other regions. I've argued many times that rather than focusing on Ontario, that Ontario needs to be the last region that the NDP tries to crack, outside of places in Ontario where the demographics would favour the NDP the same way they would in the other provinces.

Mighty Middle

MPs warned Singh in June that he's through as leader if he can't win Burnaby South

Several senior members of the federal NDP caucus warned NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh back in June that he won't be able to hang on as party leader if he loses next month's byelection in Burnaby South, CBC News has learned.

Two New Democrat MPs, who spoke to CBC News on condition of anonymity, were among a small group of caucus members who met with Singh last summer to tell him that a loss in the Feb. 25 byelection would lead to overwhelming pressure on him to resign. They're among a group of nine NDP MPs who tell CBC News they believe Singh would have no choice but to resign if he doesn't win his seat next month.

"We told him going in, way back in June, when this was being contemplated ... that if you do this, this is all-in. It's not like you hope to win this thing. You have to. Your leadership rides on it," one MP told CBC News.

"That was understood. There may be some revisionist history going on if he doesn't (win)."

A former top NDP strategist agrees.

"It is self-evident. If you lose a byelection, if you can't win in the People's Republic of Burnaby, where can you win?" said Karl Bélanger, former national director of the NDP and former principal secretary to ex-leader Tom Mulcair.

"I think Mr. Singh knows that, and I think he is trying to show to everybody that he's going to win that seat and then lead the party in the next election."

The June meeting took place in a secluded committee room in the basement of Parliament Hill's Centre Block the week the House of Commons adjourned for the summer break.

An 'all-in' gamble

Sources told CBC News that the NDP leader agreed at the meeting that running in the byelection would be an "all-in" gamble. Singh, according to the sources, said he was confident of a win, that he believed he would be in his element campaigning in the community.

"So if he fails at his best, in a part of the country we have to do well in — British Columbia in general and Vancouver in particular — I don't know what their argument is to have Singh stay on as leader," a senior NDP MP said.

Speaking to CBC News Friday, Singh sidestepped questions about what he might do if he loses his byelection bid, insisting that he's in a good position to win.

"I'm not focused on myself and I know if we work hard, we're going to win here," he said. "We're going to win in Burnaby South because people need us."

​If Singh has agreed privately that he can't stay on if he fails to secure a Commons seat next month, that would contradict his public stance on the matter. In an interview with Rosemary Barton that aired on CBC's The National on January 20, Singh insisted he would stay on as leader even if he loses the February 25 vote.

"I will be the leader that leads the New Democratic Party into the 2019 election," Singh said. "I'm confident we're going to do well in this riding. We're connecting with people, we're getting a lot of support."

In total, CBC and Radio-Canada contacted more than half of the 40 members of the NDP caucus. Not all of the caucus members contacted by CBC News replied, but most of those who spoke to CBC say they feel confident Singh will win.

What happens if he loses?

Five declined to comment on what they called a 'hypothetical' scenario. Two caucus members expressed their full support for Singh. Some said they believe the decision to stay or go rests with him.

Caucus members aren't the only ones saying Singh must go if he falls short in Burnaby South. Some non-caucus veterans of New Democrat campaigns agree — although at least one is pointing out that Singh's departure might be the result of a messy process.

"First, a group of party elders would counsel him that the time had come. If he resisted, then a caucus vote — non-binding, but humiliating," said the party strategist, who asked not to be named. "Then a vote by the Federal Council of the NDP.

What happens if he loses?

Five declined to comment on what they called a 'hypothetical' scenario. Two caucus members expressed their full support for Singh. Some said they believe the decision to stay or go rests with him.

Caucus members aren't the only ones saying Singh must go if he falls short in Burnaby South. Some non-caucus veterans of New Democrat campaigns agree — although at least one is pointing out that Singh's departure might be the result of a messy process.

"First, a group of party elders would counsel him that the time had come. If he resisted, then a caucus vote — non-binding, but humiliating," said the party strategist, who asked not to be named. "Then a vote by the Federal Council of the NDP.

"Choosing his time to go gives him the benefit of a graceful exit. Being pushed means it would end sadly. Given the crippled Liberal (byelection) campaign, I doubt it will come to that."

The Liberals recently tapped Richard T. Lee, a former B.C. legislator, to run in the riding after their first candidate, Karen Wang, resigned over a controversial campaign post urging Chinese people to vote for her as the "only" Chinese candidate.

CBC News has learned, however, that the NDP is working on various contingency plans that could take effect if Singh fails in Burnaby South.

Plans B, C and beyond

If, for example, Singh loses and immediately steps aside as leader, one option would be to immediately stage a leadership contest — much like the one that quickly came together in Ontario after Patrick Brown was forced to step down as Progressive Conservative leader over allegations of sexual misconduct.

But the federal NDP is in a very different place now than the Ontario PCs were last year, when they staged the leadership vote that ended up picking Doug Ford as Brown's replacement.

The provincial PCs were leading in the polls at the time; according to the CBC's Poll Tracker, the federal NDP's support stands at just 14.2 per cent nationally. The Ontario Conservatives had amassed a huge warchest by the time Brown left and were easily able to pay for a convention. The federal NDP, meanwhile, continues to struggle with fundraising.

​Another option could see the caucus choose an interim leader. Two names have been suggested in NDP circles as possible caretaker leaders: B.C. MP Nathan Cullen and Quebec MP Guy Caron.

Any interim leader chosen by caucus would have to be approved by the federal council before leading the party into the general election, which would be followed by a leadership race — the only way a permanent leader can be chosen under party rules.

Some caucus members have mapped out what they see as a graceful exit for Singh: offering him the position of deputy leader and Ontario lieutenant and letting him run in Brampton East, an area he used to represent provincially. Singh could subsequently run for the party leadership again, strengthened politically by having secured a seat in the Commons.

Belanger said that if Singh were to lose in Burnaby South and then attempt to hang on as party leader, the only way to remove him would be through a leadership review.

But leadership reviews happen at party conventions — and the NDP has no convention scheduled until after the fall federal election. In order to trigger a leadership review, a special convention would need to be called. It could only be called by the NDP federal council or at the request of a majority of federal riding associations.

One NDP strategist — who also asked not to be named — is skeptical about the special convention option: "Part of me doesn't have the faith in these people to bring a knife to the fight.

"These people have a challenge to face in the fact that this leader received an overwhelming vote from the membership on the first ballot (in the leadership race) and then had that vote reinforced in February 2018 with an overwhelming support from all the membership in a hugely attended convention here in Ottawa, when he got 92.8 per cent (support)."

Bracing for the worst

Former NDP MP and 2012 leadership candidate Peggy Nash said those working on a contingency plan to take effect if Singh loses in Burnaby South are simply doing the obvious.

"I like to play chess and I always think a few moves ahead and I always have back-up plans. I would think that is just good sound management to want to have contingency plans for whatever happens," Nash said.

B.C. NDP MP Don Davies said he's confident Singh will take his seat next month, and that his presence in the House of Commons will strengthen his leadership. "I'm looking to that having a lot of benefits, including on our fundraising, and our general polling numbers," he said. "I think everything will be better once Jagmeet's in the House.

"There's been a lot of attention on what happens if he doesn't win. I think the only fair result of when he does win is that it should put to rest this chatter that's going on."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-caucus-burnaby-south-1.50...

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

MPs warned Singh in June that he's through as leader if he can't win Burnaby South

Several senior members of the federal NDP caucus warned NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh back in June that he won't be able to hang on as party leader if he loses next month's byelection in Burnaby South, CBC News has learned.

Two New Democrat MPs, who spoke to CBC News on condition of anonymity, were among a small group of caucus members who met with Singh last summer to tell him that a loss in the Feb. 25 byelection would lead to overwhelming pressure on him to resign. They're among a group of nine NDP MPs who tell CBC News they believe Singh would have no choice but to resign if he doesn't win his seat next month.

"We told him going in, way back in June, when this was being contemplated ... that if you do this, this is all-in. It's not like you hope to win this thing. You have to. Your leadership rides on it," one MP told CBC News.

"That was understood. There may be some revisionist history going on if he doesn't (win)."

A former top NDP strategist agrees.

"It is self-evident. If you lose a byelection, if you can't win in the People's Republic of Burnaby, where can you win?" said Karl Bélanger, former national director of the NDP and former principal secretary to ex-leader Tom Mulcair.

"I think Mr. Singh knows that, and I think he is trying to show to everybody that he's going to win that seat and then lead the party in the next election."

The June meeting took place in a secluded committee room in the basement of Parliament Hill's Centre Block the week the House of Commons adjourned for the summer break.

An 'all-in' gamble

Sources told CBC News that the NDP leader agreed at the meeting that running in the byelection would be an "all-in" gamble. Singh, according to the sources, said he was confident of a win, that he believed he would be in his element campaigning in the community.

"So if he fails at his best, in a part of the country we have to do well in — British Columbia in general and Vancouver in particular — I don't know what their argument is to have Singh stay on as leader," a senior NDP MP said.

Speaking to CBC News Friday, Singh sidestepped questions about what he might do if he loses his byelection bid, insisting that he's in a good position to win.

"I'm not focused on myself and I know if we work hard, we're going to win here," he said. "We're going to win in Burnaby South because people need us."

​If Singh has agreed privately that he can't stay on if he fails to secure a Commons seat next month, that would contradict his public stance on the matter. In an interview with Rosemary Barton that aired on CBC's The National on January 20, Singh insisted he would stay on as leader even if he loses the February 25 vote.

"I will be the leader that leads the New Democratic Party into the 2019 election," Singh said. "I'm confident we're going to do well in this riding. We're connecting with people, we're getting a lot of support."

In total, CBC and Radio-Canada contacted more than half of the 40 members of the NDP caucus. Not all of the caucus members contacted by CBC News replied, but most of those who spoke to CBC say they feel confident Singh will win.

What happens if he loses?

Five declined to comment on what they called a 'hypothetical' scenario. Two caucus members expressed their full support for Singh. Some said they believe the decision to stay or go rests with him.

Caucus members aren't the only ones saying Singh must go if he falls short in Burnaby South. Some non-caucus veterans of New Democrat campaigns agree — although at least one is pointing out that Singh's departure might be the result of a messy process.

"First, a group of party elders would counsel him that the time had come. If he resisted, then a caucus vote — non-binding, but humiliating," said the party strategist, who asked not to be named. "Then a vote by the Federal Council of the NDP.

What happens if he loses?

Five declined to comment on what they called a 'hypothetical' scenario. Two caucus members expressed their full support for Singh. Some said they believe the decision to stay or go rests with him.

Caucus members aren't the only ones saying Singh must go if he falls short in Burnaby South. Some non-caucus veterans of New Democrat campaigns agree — although at least one is pointing out that Singh's departure might be the result of a messy process.

"First, a group of party elders would counsel him that the time had come. If he resisted, then a caucus vote — non-binding, but humiliating," said the party strategist, who asked not to be named. "Then a vote by the Federal Council of the NDP.

"Choosing his time to go gives him the benefit of a graceful exit. Being pushed means it would end sadly. Given the crippled Liberal (byelection) campaign, I doubt it will come to that."

The Liberals recently tapped Richard T. Lee, a former B.C. legislator, to run in the riding after their first candidate, Karen Wang, resigned over a controversial campaign post urging Chinese people to vote for her as the "only" Chinese candidate.

CBC News has learned, however, that the NDP is working on various contingency plans that could take effect if Singh fails in Burnaby South.

Plans B, C and beyond

If, for example, Singh loses and immediately steps aside as leader, one option would be to immediately stage a leadership contest — much like the one that quickly came together in Ontario after Patrick Brown was forced to step down as Progressive Conservative leader over allegations of sexual misconduct.

But the federal NDP is in a very different place now than the Ontario PCs were last year, when they staged the leadership vote that ended up picking Doug Ford as Brown's replacement.

The provincial PCs were leading in the polls at the time; according to the CBC's Poll Tracker, the federal NDP's support stands at just 14.2 per cent nationally. The Ontario Conservatives had amassed a huge warchest by the time Brown left and were easily able to pay for a convention. The federal NDP, meanwhile, continues to struggle with fundraising.

​Another option could see the caucus choose an interim leader. Two names have been suggested in NDP circles as possible caretaker leaders: B.C. MP Nathan Cullen and Quebec MP Guy Caron.

Any interim leader chosen by caucus would have to be approved by the federal council before leading the party into the general election, which would be followed by a leadership race — the only way a permanent leader can be chosen under party rules.

Some caucus members have mapped out what they see as a graceful exit for Singh: offering him the position of deputy leader and Ontario lieutenant and letting him run in Brampton East, an area he used to represent provincially. Singh could subsequently run for the party leadership again, strengthened politically by having secured a seat in the Commons.

Belanger said that if Singh were to lose in Burnaby South and then attempt to hang on as party leader, the only way to remove him would be through a leadership review.

But leadership reviews happen at party conventions — and the NDP has no convention scheduled until after the fall federal election. In order to trigger a leadership review, a special convention would need to be called. It could only be called by the NDP federal council or at the request of a majority of federal riding associations.

One NDP strategist — who also asked not to be named — is skeptical about the special convention option: "Part of me doesn't have the faith in these people to bring a knife to the fight.

"These people have a challenge to face in the fact that this leader received an overwhelming vote from the membership on the first ballot (in the leadership race) and then had that vote reinforced in February 2018 with an overwhelming support from all the membership in a hugely attended convention here in Ottawa, when he got 92.8 per cent (support)."

Bracing for the worst

Former NDP MP and 2012 leadership candidate Peggy Nash said those working on a contingency plan to take effect if Singh loses in Burnaby South are simply doing the obvious.

"I like to play chess and I always think a few moves ahead and I always have back-up plans. I would think that is just good sound management to want to have contingency plans for whatever happens," Nash said.

B.C. NDP MP Don Davies said he's confident Singh will take his seat next month, and that his presence in the House of Commons will strengthen his leadership. "I'm looking to that having a lot of benefits, including on our fundraising, and our general polling numbers," he said. "I think everything will be better once Jagmeet's in the House.

"There's been a lot of attention on what happens if he doesn't win. I think the only fair result of when he does win is that it should put to rest this chatter that's going on."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/jagmeet-singh-caucus-burnaby-south-1.50...

Please do not post whole articles. Just take a part that you want and link. The habit will get this site in trouble.

Mighty Middle

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Please do not post whole articles. Just take a part that you want and link. The habit will get this site in trouble.

OK thanks for the heads up - will do that the next time. My apologies to everyone.

Sean in Ottawa

Mighty Middle wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Please do not post whole articles. Just take a part that you want and link. The habit will get this site in trouble.

OK thanks for the heads up - will do that the next time. My apologies to everyone.

No problem - thanks

josh

People’s Republic of Burnaby?  Isn’t great when a member of a supposed left-wing party regurgitates right-wing talking points.

robbie_dee

I think Jagmeet is going to win the Burnaby byelection. And if anything, all this talk now will help him frame a narrative of this  as a huge victory, when in actual fact the NDP is likely to take a bad loss in Outremont the same day and to continue to limp along into the fall underfunded and behind in the polls. But hey, I could be wrong.

WWWTT

Everyone knows that a liberal majority depends on a weak NDP vote. 

This is all corporate media bullshit. NDP support numbers are probably stronger (how much who knows? hard to tell when the corporate media pay the servants). 

The corporate media is going to repeat their bullshit, continue their biased pundit idiotic rants and publish their servants sketchy polls in an attempt to brainwash Canadian voters right up until the next election.

After months of exposure to faulty polls and the rampant hyperventilating attacks from corporate media pundits, voters will bend to to the pressure unwillingly forced upon them. 

And the very next day, babble posters will be here posting comments along the lines “see, see that! The polls are right! The pundits are right. Always right!”

bekayne

Ok, so when the NDP is low in the polls it's a plot to discourage NDP supporters. And when they're high in the polls? I guess it's a plot to lull them into a false sense of security.

WWWTT

How often are the NDP hi in the polls? Because the way you wrote your comment, the NDP are 50% hi in the polls and 50% low.  

Spare me the bullshit. 

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

How often are the NDP hi in the polls? Because the way you wrote your comment, the NDP are 50% hi in the polls and 50% low.  

WWWTT why are so many NDP MPs going to the media and talking to reporters about this? At both CTV and CBC?

WWWTT

The anonymous NDP MPs?

brookmere

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

* re-posts entire article immediately preceding *

Please do not post whole articles. Just take a part that you want and link. The habit will get this site in trouble.

Indeed.

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

The anonymous NDP MPs?

and the article did say there were SIX NDP MPs that spoke to CBC. So why are these six NDP MPs going to the media with their complaints?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

josh wrote:

People’s Republic of Burnaby?  Isn’t great when a member of a supposed left-wing party regurgitates right-wing talking points.

This is Belanger proving he knows nothing about BC. Everyone I know from the NDP in Burnaby has always called it the Socialist Republic of Burnaby. The Capital Hill area was called Red Hill in the thirties and forties but it is now where millionaires live. No one alludes to "People's" anything except outsiders who are left liberals and afraid of real socialists like Robinson and Siksay.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

kropotkin1951 wrote:

josh wrote:

People’s Republic of Burnaby?  Isn’t great when a member of a supposed left-wing party regurgitates right-wing talking points.

This is Belanger proving he knows nothing about BC. Everyone I know from the NDP in Burnaby has always called it the Socialist Republic of Burnaby. The Capital Hill area was called Red Hill in the thirties and forties but it is now where millionaires live. No one alludes to "People's" anything except outsiders who are left liberals and afraid of real socialists like Robinson and Siksay.

Krop, we used to call it the People's Republic of Burnaby. We stopped calling it this after Burnaby City Council started allowing demovictions of renters in low rise apartment blocks in Metrotown in 2015.

Aristotleded24

We can blame the media or the NDP MPs for their disloyalty or try and find any other scapegoats. The fact is that by electing Singh knowing that he was without a seat, the party did this to itself. It's very challenging when your leader does not have a seat, and that is something to take into account. Sure there were some successes with Alexa McDonnough and Jack Layton, but things don't always turn out that way. Having do devote resources in an uphill battle to elect your leader and having your leader tied down locally when your leader needs to be seen across the country is very taxing for a party.

WWWTT

Mighty Middle wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

The anonymous NDP MPs?

and the article did say there were SIX NDP MPs that spoke to CBC. So why are these six NDP MPs going to the media with their complaints?

I’ve noticed that the imperialist corporate media has started using the term “anonymous” lately (last few years or so?). I understand their explanation, to protect sources. Also remember police doing this when getting search warrants, charge and convict innocent people. But ultimately someone who hides behinds the cloak of anonymity has zero rights and may not even exist!

So therefore, the ICM claims of six “anonymous” NDP MPs coming forward is probably a fabrication, lies!

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

So therefore, the ICM claims of six “anonymous” NDP MPs coming forward is probably a fabrication, lies!

what about former NDP MP Peggy Nash being quoted as saying it is "good sound management" to have this plan B.

WWWTT

Hi Mighty Middle. Post the link and I'll read it. Thanks!

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

Hi Mighty Middle. Post the link and I'll read it. Thanks!

I'll do better - Peggy Nash on camera saying it is "good sound management" to have this plan B.

Jagmeet Singh's leadership on the line in B.C.'s Burnaby South byelection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxi2VD_dsBQ

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The NDP has taken internal power struggles to a new low. Under the cover of caucus solidarity they muzzle their MP's on issues that they were active on before getting elected and then allow this kind of backstabbing in public.

bekayne

WWWTT wrote:

I’ve noticed that the imperialist corporate media has started using the term “anonymous” lately (last few years or so?). I understand their explanation, to protect sources. Also remember police doing this when getting search warrants, charge and convict innocent people. But ultimately someone who hides behinds the cloak of anonymity has zero rights and may not even exist!

"Recently"? Are you kidding? "Deep Throat" was recent?

Aristotleded24

kropotkin1951 wrote:
The NDP has taken internal power struggles to a new low. Under the cover of caucus solidarity they muzzle their MP's on issues that they were active on before getting elected and then allow this kind of backstabbing in public.

Once again, the party keeps taking lessons for success from Manitoba. They've learned that openly calling for your leader to step down in public is a great way to end your political career on the spot.

Mighty Middle

"We were not the type of party to go out and air our dirty laundry to the public," says Tom Mulcair on NDP members recently voicing criticisms about the party to the media. "That's a reflection of how dire things are."

https://twitter.com/CTV_PowerPlay/status/1091460180586287104

cco

Coming from the guy who imposed iron-fisted discipline on MPs and staffers to avoid leaks, that's pretty rich. As if it was some kind of long-standing rule of party culture that snitches get stitches, and the fact the NDP isn't currently practicing democratic centralism is a sign of weak leadership.

WWWTT

Mighty Middle wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

Hi Mighty Middle. Post the link and I'll read it. Thanks!

I'll do better - Peggy Nash on camera saying it is "good sound management" to have this plan B.

Jagmeet Singh's leadership on the line in B.C.'s Burnaby South byelection

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zxi2VD_dsBQ

You’re full of shit!

They edited  that clip to next to nothing. There’s no mention of any “plan b”

I suspect this plan b horse shit is another icm fabrication to try and scare away voters from the NDP 

bekayne

Mighty Middle wrote:

"We were not the type of party to go out and air our dirty laundry to the public," says Tom Mulcair on NDP members recently voicing criticisms about the party to the media. "That's a reflection of how dire things are."

https://twitter.com/CTV_PowerPlay/status/1091460180586287104

He's spent most of his adult life in the culture of the Quebec Liberal Party, so how would he know?

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

They edited  that clip to next to nothing. There’s no mention of any “plan b”

I suspect this plan b horse shit is another icm fabrication to try and scare away voters from the NDP 

The full quote (from Peggy Nash ON CAMERA) is

"I would think that is just good sound management to want to have contingency plans for whatever happens,"

A contingency plan is sometimes referred to as "Plan B," because it can be also used as an alternative for action if expected results fail to materialize. Contingency planning is a component of business continuity, disaster recovery and risk management.

https://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/contingency-plan

WWWTT

Thanks for confirming you’re full of shit!

The icm sounds real desperate 

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

 

Thanks for confirming you’re full of shit!

The icm sounds real desperate 

So define for everyone what "contingency plans " means.

WWWTT

Like I said before Mighty Middle you’re full of shit!

This plan b crap is probably icm fabrications. Just because the media searched Peggy Nash out and run it by her doesn’t mean The NDP was all freaked out by Jag losing his seat

WWWTT

Like I said before Mighty Middle you’re full of shit!

This plan b crap is probably icm fabrications. Just because the media searched Peggy Nash out and run it by her doesn’t mean The NDP was all freaked out by Jag losing his seat

Mighty Middle

WWWTT wrote:

Like I said before Mighty Middle you’re full of shit!

This plan b crap is probably icm fabrications. Just because the media searched Peggy Nash out and run it by her doesn’t mean The NDP was all freaked out by Jag losing his seat

Now you are bashing Peggy Nash

R.E.Wood

WWWTT doesn't like the message about "Jag" (you know it's pronounced "Jug", right, so it sounds a little less cool when you shorten it), so he shoots the messenger and the entire concept of anonymous sources. Typical... Sounds a lot like how Trump deals with Fake News... which, BTW, is the truth he just doesn't like. Doesn't change the reality. The NDP and "Jag" are in serious trouble and the MP's know it, and are talking to the media about it! Burying your head in the sand and blaming it on some kind of "imperialist media" conspiracy not only doesn't make the party's situation any better but defies reality.

 

ETA: I truly dislike the acrimony amongst members on here lately, particularly in dealings with WWWTT and Montgomery, both of whom are extraordinarily antagonistic to others. Chill out. If we are all intending to be on relatively the same side (and we are, aren't we?) then we should pick fights with each other less often and focus on what matters, like the future of the NDP and left/progressive politics in Canada. 

WWWTT

No actually what I’m doing is going against the advice I try to practice, ignoring trolls. 

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