NDP leadership race 3

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Stockholm

Jack Layton offered charisma, good looks, organizing ability and lots of policy substance. I want it ALL in a new leader.

Mighty Middle

But will Jagmeet have any bold new ideas other than what the other four are saying? Taxing the rich 5% instead of 1% would be a start. That would be bold.

UPDATE

This just in - Brad Lavigne confirms to Power & Politics that he is part of Jagmeet Singh leadership campaign.

JeffWells

Brad Lavigne, huh? Well, there's another strike against him, as far as I'm concerned.

FYI, there's a live feed on his Facebook page to his announcement. (He hasn't spoken yet.)

https://www.facebook.com/jagmeetndp/?hc_ref=NEWSFEED

 

Mighty Middle

In addition Justin Ling of Vice (who is covering the event) tweeted

"I'm also told Singh also reached out to Karl Belanger, former right-hand guy to Thomas Mulcair, though seems like not much came of it."

UPDATE - Just watching Jagmeet launch and his slogan is Love & Courage. He has four main themes he wants to focus on

Income Inequality

Climate Change

Reconciliation With Indigenous People

Electoral Reform

josh

Love and Courage?   Sounds like the title of a remake of War and Peace.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think he may have stolen the theme from a trio of women. Appropriating their culture is not a good way to start a campaign.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQO033oavic

 

JeffWells

I remain wary but now also underwhelmed. The bulk of his message was platitudes that could have been spoken by any politician running for any party, anywhere. I wasn't expecting hard policy at a launch, but there wasn't much of a vision either, IMO.

Looking forward to the debate.

Mighty Middle

JeffWells wrote:

I remain wary but now also underwhelmed. The bulk of his message was platitudes that could have been spoken by any politician running for any party, anywhere. I wasn't expecting hard policy at a launch, but there wasn't much of a vision either, IMO.

Well Bill Blakie supporters said the same about Jack Layton in 2003, and look how that turned out.

 

Geoff

Whatever one thinks of Jagmeet Singh, I think he will serve the party well by shining a light on the entire leadership race. All candidates will benefit from the increased media exposure that Singh has generated, so far. That's good news, no matter who you support.

R.E.Wood

I missed Jagmeet Singh's live launch, and have struggled to find video of it until now. In this article in The Star they have a "highlights" reel, and I have to say that the optics of his launch are excellent. Extremely professional in both staging and delivery (unlike, for example, Peter Julian, whose launch couldn't have looked worse). Yes, Singh's speech is full of vague platitudes, but presumably more detail will emerge over the course of the campaign.

"Singh brings some style to a rumpled NDP" ... New Democrats are about to find out whether this is a guy in an empty, well-tailored suit, or a man of heft in bespoke threads. Many seem prepared to bet on the latter.

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/05/16/singh-brings-some-style-t...

In that article it's also noted that:

He was able to put more people in one room for his kickoff than the other four leading candidates combined. It was a younger crowd, it was the most diverse crowd at an NDP event I have ever seen in almost three decades of enduring such evenings and, in keeping with the man they came to see, it was a stylish gathering.

So Singh is entering the race with a huge splash. I also find it interesting that it's not just the mainstream media that's taking a shine to Singh, but also right here on the front page of Rabble, Duncan Cameron writes about Singh in glowing terms. 

"Jagmeet Singh brings excitement to the NDP leadership race"

http://www.rabble.ca/columnists/2017/05/jagmeet-singh-brings-excitement-...

josh

Nothing but the superficiality we've all come to love about politics.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

R.E.Wood wrote:

In that article it's also noted that:

He was able to put more people in one room for his kickoff than the other four leading candidates combined. It was a younger crowd, it was the most diverse crowd at an NDP event I have ever seen in almost three decades of enduring such evenings and, in keeping with the man they came to see, it was a stylish gathering.

I wish he would stop enduring such evenings and let someone else report on the race who is not so anti-NDP. the BC NDP won Surrey like they never have in the past. The idea that the NDP is not diverse is absurd. Of course when you get outside our urban areas the crowd does get very white but that is not because only white people support the NDP but because much of rural BC like in other parts of the country are very very white.

My wife read this and asked whether he was the style pages editor?

http://thelinkpaper.ca/?p=63246

 

CanadaApple

I get the sense most NDP members are looking for someone with substance and not just style so I think Singh will have to prove he can do both if he's going to win. 

MegB

Hey Folks,

Last NDP leadership campaign we had all but one candidates on babble to anwer our questions. In the interest of time you each came up with a question for the candidate, a question which was submitted early, to be answered by the candidate in their thread. There was also enough time for some real-time Q&A. I'd like to gauge your interest in doing something like this over the summer in preparation for the October election. So, if you'd like to do this again, let me know. If enough of you are interested, we'll do our best to create lively and diverse discussions with NDP leadership candidates.

Mighty Middle

Thanks Meg B. That is a fabulous idea, look forward to hearing more.

NorthReport

Gurpreet Singh: Beware of those opposed to Jagmeet Singh and his supporters

 

He first got elected as Ontario MPP in 2011 after beginning his career as a criminal defence lawyer. His alternative politics earned him a lot of respect among grassroots activists, especially those belonging to the Sikh community. He has constantly raised the issue of human-right abuses in India. Not only has he been an outspoken voice for political prisoners, but also for victims of the anti-Sikh pogrom of 1984.

That year thousands of innocent Sikhs were murdered across India following the assassination of then prime minister Indira Gandhi by her Sikh bodyguards. Thanks to Singh's efforts, the Ontario legislature recently acknowledged the anti-Sikh violence as genocide.

He has also been talking passionately on behalf of so-called untouchables in the caste-ridden Hindu society in India. In a statement against the caste system and to show his solidarity with victims of caste-based oppression, Singh chose not to display his surname of Dhaliwal—which in India often indicates membership in an affluent community of well-to-do landowning farmers.

His activism is not just confined to his own community. He has been speaking out for Muslims, indigenous groups, women, and the LGBT community. He's never pulled his punches while criticizing U.S. president Donald Trump for his anti-immigrant rhetoric.

He told Straight that he strongly believes in fair trade and not free trade and thinks it’s important to intervene in a situations of injustice anywhere in the world.  

But everyone is not impressed, as he has rubbed apologists of the Indian state the wrong way. Indian agents and their supporters will be keeping an eye on him. At least that is what one of the media reports that appeared on an Indian daily website indicates.

Notably, Singh was denied an Indian visa in 2013 because of his advocacy for the rights of religious minorities in that country. In fact, the attacks on minority communities and untouchables have grown under the right-wing Hindu nationalist government in India. There is a good possibility that the pro-India lobby groups will try their best to defeat him in the leadership race.

Apart from Indian agents, Singh faces a challenge from racists in the alt right who have become emboldened in Canada ever since Trump got elected.  

http://www.straight.com/news/912581/gurpreet-singh-beware-those-opposed-...

R.E.Wood

MegB - that would be great, thank you!

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Yes, I would like to have a chance to ask the candidates a question or 2 here on babble.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..yup. i'm up for that meg.

Mighty Middle

Jagmeet Singh says PM Justin Trudeau "Means Well" but Trudeau is UNABLE to understand issues.

Unlike Jagmeet I guess.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDoXV2sRE_g

quizzical

i agree with him. Justin doesn't understand anything about anyone other than himself and what he wants.

JeffWells

I think saying Trudeau "means well" concedes far too much moral high ground. For one instance: telling Texas oilmen that only a fool would leave all that lovely tarsand in the ground - is that meaning well?

That Jagmeet would say this makes me worry that (a) he doesn't really "get it" himself, and (b) he's not a great political tactician.

Mighty Middle

JeffWells wrote:

I think saying Trudeau "means well" concedes far too much moral high ground. For one instance: telling Texas oilmen that only a fool would leave all that lovely tarsand in the ground - is that meaning well?

That Jagmeet would say this makes me worry that (a) he doesn't really "get it" himself, and (b) he's not a great political tactician.

Jagmeet also said that he jumped into the race because some of Trudeau actions have "offended" (his word) him

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_SJG8tu18U

mark_alfred

Seems in giving support to Palestinian issues (see link below) that Niki Ashton got on B'nai B'rith's shit-list.  https://www.facebook.com/MPNikiAshton/posts/1461778860564017

Stockholm

JeffWells wrote:

I think saying Trudeau "means well" concedes far too much moral high ground. For one instance: telling Texas oilmen that only a fool would leave all that lovely tarsand in the ground - is that meaning well?

That Jagmeet would say this makes me worry that (a) he doesn't really "get it" himself, and (b) he's not a great political tactician.

Actually its a pretty smart thing to say. Trudeau is still quite persoanlly popular among New Democrats and the main attitude that NDP voters have towards Trudeau is more one of disappointment than hate. Its not a bad strategy to validate that people were not necessarily idiots to have fallen for Trudeau but that he is in over his head, likely dominated by his advisors and we can do better with the NDP under the next leader.

mark_alfred

I'll likely vote for Julian first round because he has good ideas and he seems like a nice guy.  Then Ashton second round.  But I think the contest is already over.  Singh will be the next leader.  Which is fine.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Notably, Singh was denied an Indian visa in 2013 because of his advocacy for the rights of religious minorities in that country. In fact, the attacks on minority communities and untouchables have grown under the right-wing Hindu nationalist government in India. There is a good possibility that the pro-India lobby groups will try their best to defeat him in the leadership race.

Ron Banerjee is going to have to split his time between fighting Muslim prayers on school property, and a Sikh leading the NDP.

josh

mark_alfred wrote:

I'll likely vote for Julian first round because he has good ideas and he seems like a nice guy.  Then Ashton second round.  But I think the contest is already over.  Singh will be the next leader.  Which is fine.

Already over?

Mighty Middle

Stockholm wrote:

 Its not a bad strategy to validate that people were not necessarily idiots to have fallen for Trudeau but that he is in over his head, likely dominated by his advisors and we can do better with the NDP under the next leader.

Conservatives spent millions of dollars and blanketed the airwaves with "Just Not Ready" and "In Over His Head" for two straight years. It didn't work. Even Kevin O'Leary tried it calling Justin "Bambi" "Surfer Dude PM" and "Zoolander PM". The result? O'Leary's negatives were higher than his positives with the general electorate. So under Rona Ambrose, the party have switched tactics and remade themselves the champion of the taxpayer. Aside from O'Leary they have stopped publicy calling Trudeau an airhead.

If Jagmeet wants to pick up where the Conservatives left off and push the narratives "In Over His Head" (but in a softer tone than what O'Leary pushed), come election time the party will be stuck in the political wilderness. Justin as a policy lightweight just does not resonate with the public. Jagmeet could win leadership pushing that, but a general election he would lose seats making issue of Trudeau being a lightweight.

UPDATE This Just In

Jagmeet once again calls Trudeau "Offensive" (this is actually the fourth time). This time it is about marijuana, saying it is "Offensive" Trudeau has not decriminalized at the very start.

He also refused to get into the issue of legalization, saying he will discuss this when he rolls out his full policy. He also refused to answer questions about

Pipeline development

Increased defence spending

Retaliatory trade action against the U.S. over softwood lumber tariffs.

Saying there will be plenty of time for those conversations when he rolls out his full policy platform

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/decriminalize-pot-ahead-of-legalizing-it-...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I think Singh is going to get it from both sides.

From the Right:  "He's a lefty pinko who just might win!"

From the Left:  "He's a wishy-washy centrist who just might win!"

Mighty Middle

Mr. Magoo wrote:

From the Left:  "He's a wishy-washy centrist who just might win!"

Considering he not taking stand on any of the issues he was asked about, what will he talk about at the Debate on May 28th? He says he is going.

quizzical

mm silly questions imv.

he would only be the leader of the party should he win.

his views better be what the party's is don't cha think?

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Considering he not taking stand on any of the issues he was asked about, what will he talk about at the Debate on May 28th?

Who knows?  Maybe bespoke suits.  We'll need to wait and see.

I'm just saying that he's too left for one side, and not left enough for the other, so if he's smart, on May 27, he'll stay at a Holiday Inn Express.

ed'd to add:

Quote:
his views better be what the party's is don't cha think?

Maybe.  Or maybe he only needs to hit a few targets.

In other words, some members might say "his policies don't align all that well with my beliefs, so I won't vote for him", and others might say "his policies align with my beliefs on a bunch of things, and I think he might be able to win a General Election, so I'd rather see half of my beliefs made real than vote for someone else and see none of them made real".

In other words, I think some people might rather support an electable candidate who does at least some of what they want than support a candidate who's unlikely to ever win and can therefore not do any of what they want, even if they're in total agreement.

Mighty Middle

quizzical wrote:

mm silly questions imv.

he would only be the leader of the party should he win.

his views better be what the party's is don't cha think?

 

How do NDP voter gage what his policies are if he won't discuss where he stand on the issues? For instance Peter Julian is opposed to Kinder-Morgan, despite Rachel Notley being for it. Where does Jagmeet stand on this? We don't know as he refused to answer.

josh

It's a joke.  Singh has offered nothing of substance on economic issues.  He shouldn't have to wait for a debate.

SeekingAPolitic...

So far, for me its.

1.Caron--If he pulls of his guarnteed income thing, I need no longer us the local food bank.

2.Ashton--I want vote for her(heart is with her) but Caron is offering cash in my pocket, my leftist beliefs are strong but I do not like relying on a food bank to survive. 

3.Julian--He seems be a nice man.  I would no quams voting for him in the general election.

 

quizzical

mm why are you conflating the AB NDP with the federal party?

magoo my point was the NDP are more than the sum total of the leader. sure leaders can have their own platform within the policy but it's not like they've the power of veto or anything.

i'm not even sure we should have a "leader" per se.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
magoo my point was the NDP are more than the sum total of the leader. sure leaders can have their own platform within the policy but it's not like they've the power of veto or anything.

OK.  But then why should "his views better be what the party's is don't cha think?"??

You seem to be saying that he's only one of many bricks in the wall.

Quote:
i'm not even sure we should have a "leader" per se.

I believe your incantation may have just summoned Unionist.  But it's still fair to wonder, if an NDP with no leader won the popular vote, who would be PM?  It would seem silly to suddenly elect or appoint just one person, if there's no need for a leader.  But if not one person, who?

Mighty Middle

quizzical wrote:

mm why are you conflating the AB NDP with the federal party?

Because the Trudeau and Rachel Notley support Kinder Morgan. If Jagmeet wants to be PM, what is his stance on Kinder Morgan as it is a FEDERAL issue, and they are working with Notley to push it through.

So if he is PM would he kill Kinder Morgan like Peter Julian wants to do? That is why it is relevant as it is a Fed-Alberta issue

quizzical

Mr. Magoo wrote:
Quote:
magoo my point was the NDP are more than the sum total of the leader. sure leaders can have their own platform within the policy but it's not like they've the power of veto or anything.
OK.  But then why should "his views better be what the party's is don't cha think?"??

You seem to be saying that he's only one of many bricks in the wall.

Quote:
i'm not even sure we should have a "leader" per se.

I believe your incantation may have just summoned Unionist.  But it's still fair to wonder, if an NDP with no leader won the popular vote, who would be PM?  It would seem silly to suddenly elect or appoint just one person, if there's no need for a leader.  But if not one person, who?[/quote]

his ideology shouldn't be too far from the party policy i'd think. and he is only 1 voice.

imv the leader shoud be more like a chair of the various committees of a non-profit. hence the per se

mark_alfred

So far in the leadership campaign Angus hasn't taken any firm stances on anything either, and he's leading significantly in fundraising.  So, not taking firm stances doesn't mean not winning.  Quite the opposite.  Usually those who role out firm stances do so in the hope that it will help them overcome deficiencies.  Note that Topp last time had a slew of policy positions drawn up, and he lost.  Or in the Liberal race, Deborah Coyne had a whack of policies, and no one cared -- JT came through quite easily.  So, either Singh or Angus, and I'm thinking most likely Singh, will win.  And the reason it would be one of these two is that when they speak they're not boring (or, at least, they're not as boring as the rest are).  I personally would prefer Julian or Ashton, but I'm guessing it will be Singh.  And I figure Singh will be fine.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
Considering he not taking stand on any of the issues he was asked about, what will he talk about at the Debate on May 28th?

Quote:
Who knows?  Maybe bespoke suits.  We'll need to wait and see.

"Jagmeet!-the suits bespeak for themselves!"

 

R.E.Wood

Well, Singh certainly keeps getting a lot of attention in the press, and as vacuous as a lot of it has been so far at least it's serving the purpose of bringing the NDP leadership campaign into a broader spotlight. CBC has a new article on him focused on his race/religion, while The Star dwells more on his social media presence and policy direction:

JAGMEET SINGH ON HOT TOPICS

On his style as defence from racism:

“I started wearing colours as a way to disrupt people’s negative stereotypes, or maybe just their assumptions. … When you dress in a well-fitted suit, well-tailored, it acts as armour to insulate you from these types of stereotypes.”

On the NDP:

“We need to be bold and unapologetic. I think that far too often New Democrats apologize for wanting to make people’s lives more just and more fair.”

On calling out Donald Trump:

“To have credibility on the international stage, we need to be strong on our beliefs when it comes to human rights. We need to have consistency on our beliefs of justice. We can’t pick and choose when it’s easy.”

On NAFTA:

“We have to look at the interests of Canadians. Does it benefit the everyday Canadian or does it benefit an elite, small portion of Canadians?”

On his vision for Canada:

“I want to see a truly inclusive Canada, and I mean that in every way, in every sense of the word. Inclusive in the sense that every Canadian, every person, can realize their dreams.”

https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2017/05/20/jagmeet-singh-the-social-...

As Jagmeet Singh steps forward, is Canada ready for a non-white federal leader?

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/wherry-jagmeet-singh-1.4119920

 

cco

Singh's interview on Question Period today was utterly substance-free. On every policy question, he either said "I haven't launched my platform yet" or "our position is clear" (without giving one). He sure did well on the "So, how awesome are you?" questions, though.

mark_alfred

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DANnzgiVoAEhL_J.jpg

New poll from Probit (actually Ekos).  Given how unreliable social media links are, here's a description.  Angus 31%, Ashton 24%, Julian 14%, Caron 11%, Singh 11%, Stogran 3%.  The poll was done before Singh entered, so I expect subsequent polls would show him with higher numbers.

CanadaApple

Niki Ashton has come under attack from  B’nai Brith

 

New Democrat MP Niki Ashton, who has come under fire from B’nai Brith Canada for comments and actions it sees as supporting Palestinian terrorists, says she is obligated to "speak out in the face of injustice."

Michael Mostyn, B’nai Brith Canada’s chief executive officer, said the Jewish advocacy group is upset Ashton — who is running for the federal leadership of her party — attended a rally in Montreal remembering the Nakba. Ashton also posted photos on her Facebook page showing her in front of posters depicting the likeness of Ahmad Sa’adat, the jailed leader of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP).

josh

Nice to see Ashton standing up to the bullies.

cco

I was there when Ashton spoke at CJPME's office. I'm not sure if that's what they're describing as the "Nakba rally", or if said rally had happened earlier in the day, because B'nai Brith's description is utterly unrelated to anything I experienced. Israel wasn't even the most-discussed subject at CJPME that night; far more people criticized Turkey's slide into authoritarianism and its oppression of its Kurdish population.

In an era when most NDP MPs, let alone leadership candidates, seem afraid of being photographed with a Palestinian and falling victim to the inevitable ensuing smear campaign, Niki's courage and willingness to publicly take a position on the issue, as well as to engage the grassroots, inspire me. She stayed for hours, talking to everyone there. I've worked with enough politicians who regard the voters as inconvenient obstacles to their careers. I've never felt any of that arrogance from her. Indeed, her campaign has served as a bit of an antidote to my typical profound cynicism.

Stockholm

mark_alfred wrote:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DANnzgiVoAEhL_J.jpg

New poll from Probit (actually Ekos).  Given how unreliable social media links are, here's a description.  Angus 31%, Ashton 24%, Julian 14%, Caron 11%, Singh 11%, Stogran 3%.  The poll was done before Singh entered, so I expect subsequent polls would show him with higher numbers.

That appears top be a poll of NDP "supporters" as opposed to "members" rendering it totally meaningless and really just a test of name recognition among people who vote NDP

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Pretty funny, though, that Singh could still be ahead of Stogran, and tied with Caron, without even having entered the race.

Could have been fun if the pollster had said "Ok, same question, but this time if you want to you can include Bernie Sanders".

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