NDP=No Difference Party: NDP Convention Fails Palestine AGAIN

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NDP=No Difference Party: NDP Convention Fails Palestine AGAIN

It's Time For the NDP To Stand for Democracy And Human Rights for Palestinians

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/independent-jewish-voices-canada/2018/02...

"A resolution has been submitted to the NDP Convention to update the NDP's policy on Palestine. Despite widespread support - 26 riding associations in six provinces voted to endorse it -- this resolution was assigned an impossibly low priority in the listing of foreign affairs resolutions for discussion at Convention.

It's a familiar pattern from what should be a bygone era when NDP candidates selected by riding associations were swept aside by headquarters because of their views on Palestine. To enable the Palestine Resolution to reach the floor, be discussed and voted on, delegates need to go to the priority-setting panel on foreign affairs early on February 16 at the Convention in Ottawa. 

NDP members across the country who care about democracy and human rights for Palestinians as much as for anyone else need to let Canadian delegates know that the time for change is long overdue. Supporters can follow and share #PalestineResoNDP on social media to help spread the word."

https://twitter.com/hashtag/PalestineResoNDP?src=hash

"Thanks to the anti-democratic ndp national director who prioritized PalestineResoNDP last, and to Jagmeet Singh whose caucus stopped it...Where's the Love and Courage for Palestinians?"

 

 

NDPP

"The NDP establishment narrowly stopped a resolution on Israel-Palestine from being debated at the party's convention this weekend. Resolution called for a settlement boycott, and end to the occupation, and stronger support for Palestinian rights..."

https://twitter.com/iD4RO/status/964889700073984000

NDPP

Massive Defeat For Anti-Israel Forces As Pro BDS Resolution Stalls At NDP Convention

http://www.bnaibrith.ca/massive_defeat_for_anti_israel_forces_as_pro_bds...

"In a massive setback for Canada's anti-Israel camp a resolution aiming to eliminate Israel as a Jewish State will not be voted on by NDP..."

 

"NDP youth delegates Gachi Issa & Sabreina Dahab tell CPAC they want to hear more from leader Jagmeet Singh re Israel/Palestine: 'I think that the conversations are happening - and I just want them to happen here..."

https://twitter.com/CPAC_TV/status/964923076470124544

 

"People who voted for Jagmeet Singh because you thought he was good on this issue, you've been duped. He just organized against us, and you..."

https://twitter.com/mbueckert/status/965030201024483328

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

Support for Palestinian Cause at NDP Convention Blocked by Party Establishment Maneuvering|IJV Canada

Quote:

OTTAWA — Independent Jewish Voice Canada is frustrated by anti-democratic steps taken by the NDP establishment to block a strong resolution supporting Palestinian rights from reaching the convention floor for debate. Instead, a much weaker resolution, which reflects the existing position the party has taken on Israel-Palestine, will be debated.

Despite obtaining the official support of 26 riding associations in six provinces–more than any other resolution–the Palestine Resolution was ranked 37th out of 45 foreign policy resolutions by the Party’s undemocratic prioritization committee. By comparison, the top ten resolutions selected in the same category received a combined total of only 17 endorsements.

When the prioritization was challenged at a re-prioritization session on Friday morning, the resolution was voted down by just eleven votes (200-189).

“In what was an extremely tight vote, NDP members have shown our strongest support for Palestinian rights in history,” said NDP member and IJV spokesperson Geneviève Nevin. “The fervor around this resolution shows the clear split between the party’s grassroots–especially its younger members–and the party establishment.”

The resolution was endorsed unanimously at the Young New Democrats convention on Thursday. It was also supported by MP Niki Ashton, former MP Libby Davies and notable figures, including prominent academic Alain Deneault and activist Rabbi David Mivasair.

“It is clear that the party establishment did not want this resolution to pass, so they ranked it near the bottom of the list and stacked the re-prioritization room with party operatives, including members of the caucus who voted against it,” said Nevin.

Besides the Palestine resolution, which called for banning products made in Israel’s illegal settlements in the occupied West Bank from Canada, a total of twelve other resolutions supporting Palestinian rights were passed by riding associations across the country.

“We are disappointed that the party’s commitment to Love and Courage still does not extend to Palestinians,” continued Nevin. “But we will continue to build the momentum we’ve gained from this tremendous national effort. The party establishment may have succeeded in blocking efforts to support Palestinian rights for now, but they will not be able to hold back the tide of justice forever.”

IJV would like to thank all those who participated in this wonderful effort by supporting it at their riding associations, contacting their MPs, and attending the convention.

For more information please contact:

Geneviève Nevin

g.nevin@ijvcanada.org

Aristotleded24

And of course what little time was alloted for policy discussion was used up by people speaking on the resolutions that everybody already agreed with anyways. I always found that frustrating. If we all agree on the resolution, why not just vote in favour and move on? It's the resolutions where there is no strong consensus that need discussion, debate, and clarification.

josh

What a disgrace.

ReynoldR

Deeply saddened that my party has failed Palestinians.     I question whether we're still the party of Tommy Douglas.   We're certainly not the party whose virtues I preached to my classmates in the 1960s.

NDPP

"Remember the pretend socialist party of Canada that refuses to use the word socialist @NDP, just voted down a resolution on Palestine. What an appalling, fetid disgrace."

https://twitter.com/AndrewMitrovica/status/964934753727037440

WWWTT

SHAME brothers and sisters!!! Sad day for the NDP!

But don't worry brothers and sisters, our true socialist comrades to the east carrying the torch of socialism anti imperialism is on the job and will succeed where so called fake pro social anti imperial so call political paries have failed miserably out of fear of failure!

https://thediplomat.com/2017/12/china-vows-to-play-an-active-role-in-set...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
our true socialist comrades to the east carrying the torch of socialism anti imperialism is on the job and will succeed where so called fake pro social anti imperial so call political paries have failed miserably out of fear of failure!

At first I thought you must mean China, but they've got the fastest growing middle class in the world, two different stock markets, and their millionaires seem to send their kids to Canadian schools, and invest in everything from rare artworks to Vancouver property.

So which "true socialist comrades" are you referring to?  Cuba would be to the South.  Do you mean DPRK?  They identify as "juche".

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Can anybody here actually JUSTIFY the NDP refusing to allow the resolution to even be debated?  What's the point of preventing that?  At this stage of the game, the people who make a big show of being "pro-Israel" are almost all hopelessly right-of-center now-they wouldn't vote NDP if it came of in favor of letting Netanyahu annex the banks of the Euphrates.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

NDP delegates protest ‘watered down’ Palestine policy

Quote:

In the waning hours of the NDP policy convention’s second day dozens of delegates stood in silence with hands raised holding posters proclaiming “Free Palestine” as they protested what some called a “watered down” resolution on Israel-Palestine relations during a tense and lengthy stand-off that involved more procedural wrangling than discussion.

It was the only resolution of 22 discussed Saturday during four hours of debate to garner heated objections on either side. Third up in the last session, the resolution that called on the NDP to condemn violations on “both sides in this conflict” took up nearly the whole hour, mainly with points of order and referrals rather than debate on the substance of the issue.

All microphones on the floor were packed with members wanting to speak to the issue, with charges that those opposed were being blocked from getting their chance to debate on the floor. Several times delegates “called the question” or tried to refer to committee, which members complained was undemocratic and a common tactic to avoid debate. About 60 members stood throughout and later protested at the back of the room after the motion passed.

Sam Hersh said he’s been called a “self-hating Jew” for his stance on Palestine, and argued the “watered down” resolution before the floor did “nothing to substantially address Israel’s “human rights violations.”

“Criticizing the Israeli government is not anti-Semitism,” said Mr. Hersh, who said they had been “blocked every step of the way” in trying to debate the issue.

Aristotleded24

Ken Burch wrote:
Can anybody here actually JUSTIFY the NDP refusing to allow the resolution to even be debated?  What's the point of preventing that?  At this stage of the game, the people who make a big show of being "pro-Israel" are almost all hopelessly right-of-center now-they wouldn't vote NDP if it came of in favor of letting Netanyahu annex the banks of the Euphrates.

Maybe the motivation was done not so much out of a pro-Israeli bias specifically, but to avoid "divisive conflict" on the convention floor.

The motivation in any case is irrelevant. The bigger issue at play is that there are far more resolutions that come to federal convention than the party can possibly get through in the short time that they meet. There is also an issue with what is the best way to decide which resolutions get priority and which ones don't. Keep in mind that this is a precious balancing act. The convention simply cannot get to all the resolutions, so by definition someone is always going to be unhappy with the result. In 2006, I actually got my constituency association to support a resolution on Net Neutrality, only to see that support among delegates when I attended the prioritization panel was simply not there to help me move it up the queue. How do you manage that? That is also complicated by the fact that the few resolutions that make it to the floor are often widely supported by those there, and time is wasted by delegate after delegate after delegate speaking at the mikes to say, "yay, this is a good resolution." So whether it is on Israel specifically, or Harper's age-of-consent law when I was in Quebec City in '06, the system that's in place tends to weed out the more contentious resolutions.

So, big mess we have on our hands. What do we do about it?

Pondering

Am I the only one who sees massive progress here:

The NDP’s foreign critic has begun challenging Canada's contribution to Palestinian dispossession. Hélène Laverdière has repeatedly criticized the Trudeau government’s silence on Donald Trump’s decision to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem. In response she tweeted, "a devastating day for those who believe in peace, justice and security in the Middle East. Where is Canada’s voice in protest of Trump’s decision on #Jerusalem? I urge Canada to condemn this decision in the strongest of terms."

Laverdière also asked the federal government to condemn Israel’s detention of 16-year-old Ahed Tamimi and hundredsof other Palestinian children who are usually tortured by Israeli forces. Similarly, she has pressed Ottawa to properly label products from illegal Israeli settlements and submitted a petition to Parliament calling "upon the Government of Canada to demand that Israel immediately and completely cease all settlement activities in the occupied Palestinian territory, including East Jerusalem."

http://rabble.ca/blogs/bloggers/yves-englers-blog/2018/02/burying-canada...

I know it isn't a convention resolution but it seems way better than the NDP position under Mulcair. 

NDPP

Almost anything would seem better than Mulcair's  'I am an ardent supporter of Israel in all situations and in all circumstances.'   And 'watered down' has always been what the NDP does best...

Former UN Special Rapporteur Richard Falk on the crimes Singh and other Canadian political party leaders apparently support.

https://twitter.com/BDSmovement/status/964171450860089345

 

Geoff

The NDP's position on Palestine can be summed up in two words: "Sunny ways". We're at one with Trudeau Jr.

R.E.Wood

Niki Ashton isn't happy about it, either:

"We had a well-worded resolution on justice for Palestine that had 37 riding associations supporting it that was buried," said NDP MP, and former Singh rival, Niki Ashton.

"That was very frustrating for a lot of our activists and for me, and I think what we've seen over the weekend is that people aren't willing to put up with that way of doing things. That members want to be heard and want to have a say in what issues have priority."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/challenges-ahead-for-ndp-s-jagmeet-singh...

The reality is that members voted for the status quo with Singh (see Cullen's strong support of Singh during the campaign), who I've never heard say a word about making the party more democratic to members.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I was asked in another thread what were some of the things I'd like changed in the NDP:  this procedure that allows the leadership to bury resolutions it's uncomfortable with is one.  There's simply no good reason for it anymore.

Unionist

What about the leadership ignoring and violating convention resolutions? Or (like the ONDP) removing the convention policy book from the website in order to issue an election platform that contradicts it?

Barring discussion at convention is bad. But the main reason I left the NDP way back when was the futility of passing anything at convention. The big shots carried on currying favour with power, and the members carried on making a million excuses as to why we should keep our mouths shut for the sake of... solidarity? Not airing our dirty laundry in front of the neighbours? Who knows. All I know is that absolutely nothing has changed.

Which reminds me to write to Alexandre Boulerice and give him shit. After taking gutsy stands on Gaza etc. when Mulcair was capitulating (and when then, as now, the youth wing was being very courageous), he now appears to have been part of the cabal which struck down the Palestine resolution. He either needs more support - or less. Up to him.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It would be one thing if all of this caution were in defence of a clearly socialist or at least clearly social democratic CORE set of values, principles and proposals that were never going to be compromised away, no matter what.

But it's not in defense of a core of ANYTHING.

You get the feeling that a lot of "insiders" in the federal party, so long as the the party won "power" in name and people with a bit of orange accessorizing in their wardrobe got to spend four years being the cabinet, would be fine with a federal replication of what Romanow did in Saskatchewan or with an NDP prime minister lowering him- or herself to imitating Mike Harcourt's despicable attacks on "welfare mothers".  

And would leave corporate efforts to further weaken what remains of the labour movement totally unchallenged.

​And would be perfectly happy to have Canadian troops invading MORE Arab/Muslim countries in more wars for oil.

So long as they got to be part of "the club", it looks as though some of these "insiders" would be just fine with all of that-and with the party's usual tendency to spend more time demonizing the left than it ever does standing up to the neoliberal center-right.

Is there any reason rank-and-file NDP supporters SHOULDN'T harbor such suspicions?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
And would be perfectly happy to have Canadian troops invading MORE Arab/Muslim countries in more wars for oil.

In which wars has Canada recently scored free oil?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
And would be perfectly happy to have Canadian troops invading MORE Arab/Muslim countries in more wars for oil.

In which wars has Canada recently scored free oil?

Strawman.  It's not about "free oil"...it's about the idea that every oil-producing country HAS to be put under control of the West.   Oil(and other extractive-based commodities)were the only real reasons the West militarily intervened in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya.  

Aristotleded24

R.E.Wood wrote:

Niki Ashton isn't happy about it, either:

"We had a well-worded resolution on justice for Palestine that had 37 riding associations supporting it that was buried," said NDP MP, and former Singh rival, Niki Ashton.

"That was very frustrating for a lot of our activists and for me, and I think what we've seen over the weekend is that people aren't willing to put up with that way of doing things. That members want to be heard and want to have a say in what issues have priority."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/challenges-ahead-for-ndp-s-jagmeet-singh...

The reality is that members voted for the status quo with Singh (see Cullen's strong support of Singh during the campaign), who I've never heard say a word about making the party more democratic to members.

Excuse me, did an NDP MP just publicly defend the idea that the party take seriously that the "D" in its name stands for "Democratic?"

Yay Niki! Thank you for standing up for the members and for democratic principles. For far too long elected within the NDP have listened privately when these concerns were raised but carried on publicly as if nothing was wrong. We need people who will stand up for their principles no matter what. That's why Jeremy Corbyn is well respected in Britain because he did just that within his own party when it lost its way.

NDPP

Debate On Israel/Palestine Resolution at 2018 NDP Convention

https://youtu.be/8fTQKXLY0tU

NDPP

The Passing of the Jewish NDP?

http://torontosun.ca/opinion/columnists/opinion-the-passing-of-the-jewis...

"...Before heading down this dark and lonely road, the NDP should examine the fate of other left-wing parties that have taken an anti-Jewish turn."

NDPP

Jagmeet Singh Wants To Talk About 'Vibes and Values' Ahead of NDP Platform   -  by Althia Raj

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/02/21/jagmeet-singh-ndp-policy-convent...

"NDP Leader Jagmeet Singh is value-signalling...On the weekend's more controversial topic of Israel and Palestine, Singh also wanted to talk about his values rather than take a position. He declined to state how he would vote on a motion calling on Israel to end its settlement program and lift the Gaza blockade, and to ban all products in Canada from Israeli settlements."

NDPP

To The NDP Establishment And Its Organizing Committee

http://www.bdsquebec.ca/?p=368

"...In short, the NDP establishment is in no way different from that of the Liberal Party of Canada or the Conservative Party of Canada or of the US Democratic or Republican parties when it comes to the question of Palestinian rights...Even the weakened amendment, introduced by Helen Laverdiere, representing what is more or less the status quo, was slowed down to have the clock run out so it could not be added. No one is fooled. Your establishment is on the wrong side of history."

NDPP

NDP Dismiss BDS Motion, Reject Jerusalem as Capital at Convention

http://www.cjnews.com/news/canada/ndp-dismiss-bds-motion-reject-jerusale...

"...In a similar turn of events, a resolution condemning 'apartheid' Israel and supporting BDS failed to reach the floor for debate at the Ontario NDP Convention last April."

NDPP

FSWC: Can the Federal NDP Be Saved?   - by Avi Benlolo

https://www.friendsofsimonwiesenthalcenter.com/news/front-line-can-the-f...

"...True, only one resolution made it to the floor at the end of the day and it called for peace, which is nice. And most NDP executives and members likely abhor the radical left which is attempting to turn the party on its head. But the massive number of anti-Israel proposed resolutions cannot be ignored.

They call for the 'labeling of settlement' (Jewish) goods; They denounce the move of the US embassy to Jerusalem; They want to curtail Israel's military and nuclear program; They want to implement economic sanctions against the entire State of Israel and call disputed territories 'illegal' (an effort to criminalize the state).

Since the war against the Jews cannot be won militarily or through terrorism, Israel's enemies are working overtime to hijack political parties, twist their understanding of 'social justice' and launch an economic, pseudo-academic, pseudo-scientific and cultural strangulation of this beautiful island of freedom in the Middle East...It's sad to see this happening to the NDP.

Addendum: FSWC is offering the NDP tolerance training classes either in our classroom or through the Tour for Humanity."

I thought zionist 'tolerance-training' was what the all expense-paid junkets to Israel taken by Jagmeet Singh, Laverdiere and lots of other Canadian politicians was for...?

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NDPP, why are you now posting right-wing propaganda pieces about this issue?  It's especially confusing coming from you.

NDPP

These are powerful voices that have the ears of our ruling elites, the Canadian government and the NDP. It is important to know just what they are saying.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Thought it might be something like that, but wanted to make sure.  Those are scary voices-the one thing that's hopeful is that more and more people in the Diaspora Jewish communities are distancing themselves from what Netanyahu and Co. are doing.  I think it will end up that the last really hard-core defenders of the status quo there are the Christian Zionists-especially the ones who want to jumpstart the Last Days and are heavily into things like rebuilding the Temple-and whose end game is forcing the Jews to choose between conversion or death.

NDPP

I keep hearing that, but the money, influence and support to the Zionist cause still flows from here to Israel in  great quantity, Israeli/Canada 'cooperation' grows on multiple fronts including big business and mutual 'security' and The March For Israel gets bigger every year. And how optimistic can we be when in 2018, after all the obvious  savagery and warcrimes the NDP won't even pass a rather mild BDS motion framed largely by Jews. I don't think Palestinians are prepared to wait until the diaspora is ready to stop supporting Israel either.  As for 'conversion or death' at the hands of the Christians, I wouldn't know, but my suggestion would be not to lose any sleep over it and to choose neither.

NDPP

Convention Provokes Rage Against NDP Machine  -  by Yves Engler

http://yvesengler.com/2018/03/01/convention-provokes-rage-against-ndp-ma...

"...And how did the left wing party respond? When its proponents sought to push it up the priority list at an early morning session before the main plenary the party hierarchy blocked it. In a poorly publicized side room meeting they succeeded 200 to 189.

NDP House Leader Guy Caron mobilized an unprecedented number of current and former MPs; including Murray Rankin, Randall Garrison, Craig Scott, Tracey Ramsey, Alexander Boulerice, Helene Laverdiere, Nathan Cullen and others to vote against the most widely endorsed foreign policy resolution at the convention.

Why would the party establishment risk turning off so many young activists exactly the sort of members new leader Jagmeet Singh claims he wanted to attract? 

A quick look at some of the more prominent supporters of shutting down debate suggests an answer..."

Owned by Israel: NDP='No Damn Palestine!'

Pondering

Because they want to win the next election. 

josh

LOL.  Really?  And what other human rights and tenents of international law are they willing to sacrifice in order to do that.

 

 

Pondering

josh wrote:

LOL.  Really?  And what other human rights and tenents of international law are they willing to sacrifice in order to do that.

None at all. They don't have the power to actually do or change anything and if they don't get elected they never will. Even once elected they are there to represent the interests of all Canadians. 

I strongly support BDS and I don't think the government has any business condemning it but it is up to activists to promote until there is majority support because the government represents all Canadians. 

Otherwise you are sacrificing everywhere advancement could be made for symbolism. 

I'm concerned about the world. I want us to be charitable. If we could put peacekeepers between the Israeli and Palestinians I would support it wholeheartedly. Having said that Canada is the jurisdiction where the Canadian government has ulmost unlimited power to do good.

Do you think FNs would advance faster under the NDP or another party? There are many groups and issues right here in Canada that the NDP would have the ability to radically impact if they won power. 

Activists exist to pressure government. 

josh

Represent all Canadians?  What does that mean exactly?  By failing to take action against Israeli violation of international law they are, ipso facto, not representing some Canadians.

JKR

Where does it state that the government must represent the interests of all Canadians instead of just the interests of the Canadians that vote for them?

R.E.Wood

NDPP wrote:

Convention Provokes Rage Against NDP Machine  -  by Yves Engler

http://yvesengler.com/2018/03/01/convention-provokes-rage-against-ndp-ma...

I'd just like to point out the article also notes that "Niki Ashton was the only MP to support re-prioritizing the Palestine Resolution."

The only one. Good for her - she has the courage of her convictions. Maybe she could lead a breakaway party.

josh

Just before the convention the President of the Windsor-Tecumseh Federal NDP, Noah Tepperman, sent out an email to all riding associations calling on them to oppose Palestine resolutions. In it he claimed, “boycotts based on religion, nationality or place of origin directly contravene the spirit of inclusiveness to which we in the NDP are committed.”

So I assume the NDP opposed the boycott of South Africa in the 1980s?

Pondering

JKR wrote:
Where does it state that the government must represent the interests of all Canadians instead of just the interests of the Canadians that vote for them?

Legally, once elected, the government represents all Canadians. Individuals, including the PM, may or may not have personal biases nevertheless their job is to balance what is best for Canada as a whole. 

NDPP

Important to hear Gideon Levy on Israel, because Canadian and NDP support for Israel originate from very similar sources. Thanks to CMOT for posting it.

#267 Gideon Levy: The Zionist Tango - Stop Left, Live Right (and vid)

http://rabble.ca/comment/5367491#comment-5367491

"I can tell you in the US,  as an Israeli, we don't have a bigger enemy than the Jewish lobby."

JKR

Pondering wrote:

JKR wrote:
Where does it state that the government must represent the interests of all Canadians instead of just the interests of the Canadians that vote for them?

Legally, once elected, the government represents all Canadians. Individuals, including the PM, may or may not have personal biases nevertheless their job is to balance what is best for Canada as a whole. 

What law requires the government to balance what is best for Canada as a whole?

NDPP

Canada's Pretend Socialists

https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/canada-pretend-socialists-1802...

"...It was a shameful but not unexpected exhibition by Canada's party of pretend socialists, who feign respect for international law and human rights as long as they don't apply to the Palestinians. Canada's pretend socialists can rationalize and obfuscate until their party's signature orange turns blue, but 'balanced approach' is also a polite euphemism for complicity."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
What law requires the government to balance what is best for Canada as a whole?

"The Law of Re-Election".

I take your point, though.  Certainly the elected government "represents" us in the sense that if they sign something, we live by it, and if they screw up on the world stage, we can't get much traction saying "that doesn't represent me because I didn't vote for them".

But I agree no government has any special duty of care to throw in some sops to appease the other side.

JKR

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
What law requires the government to balance what is best for Canada as a whole?

"The Law of Re-Election".

I take your point, though.  Certainly the elected government "represents" us in the sense that if they sign something, we live by it, and if they screw up on the world stage, we can't get much traction saying "that doesn't represent me because I didn't vote for them".

But I agree no government has any special duty of care to throw in some sops to appease the other side.

And I agree that "the law of re-election" is what leads governments to govern in the interests of voters. Unfortunately FPTP does not require a majority of voters to support a government's re-election. The Conservative election machine operators have been open in saying that they target approximately just 29% of the electorate because that's all they need in order to win a false FPTP majority government. The Conservatives have developed a sophisticated data system in order to bring out their core vote and suppress the vote of the rest of the electorate that make up a clear majority of voters. The Conservatives love FPTP because it allows them to win FPTP elections by just appealing to a minority of voters while the majority splits the vote. This is why their number one priority is keeping FPTP.

Rev Pesky

From JKR:

Unfortunately FPTP does not require a majority of voters to support a government's re-election. The Conservative election machine operators have been open in saying that they target approximately just 29% of the electorate because that's all they need in order to win a false FPTP majority government.

Two questions for you.

​1. Has there ever been a majority government in Canada that had fewer votes than a losing party?

​2. Has their ever been a majority government in Canada that achieved their majority with 29% of the popular vote?

JKR

Rev Pesky wrote:

From JKR:

Unfortunately FPTP does not require a majority of voters to support a government's re-election. The Conservative election machine operators have been open in saying that they target approximately just 29% of the electorate because that's all they need in order to win a false FPTP majority government.

Two questions for you.

​1. Has there ever been a majority government in Canada that had fewer votes than a losing party?

​2. Has their ever been a majority government in Canada that achieved their majority with 29% of the popular vote?

 

1. Here in BC in 1996 the BC NDP won a "majority" government even though they received fewer votes than the BC Liberals. In Quebec in 1998 the PQ won a "majority" government even though they received fewer votes than the QLP. Also in Quebec in 1996, the Union Nationale won a "majority" government even though it received fewer votes than the QLP. I'm not that ancient so I don't remember if there were any "wrong winner" elections before that. In other FPTP  countries there have been many FPTP "wrong winner" elections.

2. The 29% statistic was for the entire electorate not the popular vote. So for example, in 2011 the Conservatives won a "majority" government with the votes from just 24.3% of the electorate and just 39.6% of the popular vote. I used that statistic to show that under FPTP a majority government does not have to represent anywhere near the majority of the electorate in order to maintain majority rule. The upcoming provincial election in Quebec could see a party win government with just a third of the votes or even less, because many parties there are doing well at once. This may be why the four opposition parties in Quebec currently support electoral reform as FPTP only seems to regularly produce true majority governments when there are only two majour parties competing.

cco

Rev Pesky wrote:

​1. Has there ever been a majority government in Canada that had fewer votes than a losing party?


Yes.
Quote:

​2. Has their ever been a majority government in Canada that achieved their majority with 29% of the popular vote?

JKR said "29% of the electorate", i.e. including those who stayed home, so Stephen Harper's 2011 majority win, where he took 39% of 61% of the voters, for a total of 24%, qualifies easily.

ETA: Oops. Left this tab open from last night, then delivered the most delayed cross-post ever.

josh

NDPP wrote:

Important to hear Gideon Levy on Israel, because Canadian and NDP support for Israel originate from very similar sources. Thanks to CMOT for posting it.

#267 Gideon Levy: The Zionist Tango - Stop Left, Live Right (and vid)

http://rabble.ca/comment/5367491#comment-5367491

"I can tell you in the US,  as an Israeli, we don't have a bigger enemy than the Jewish lobby."

Only quibble is that I would describe it as the Zionist lobby.

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