Appeal of Russian organizations in Canada

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ikosmos ikosmos's picture
Appeal of Russian organizations in Canada

I've posted the info on the general Russophobia thread, but perhaps this merits inclusion here.

Quote:
Activists of the Russian community of Toronto, Montreal, and other North American cities will protest against the blanket ban on the Russian National Team of Paralympic athletes from participation in the Rio 2016 Olympics. The decision to ban the athletes demonstrates an absolute disregard for the legal right of people to the presumption of innocence. We cannot allow such blatant attacks on our morals, ethics, and democratic freedoms. Unfortunately, we are witnessing increasing politicization of sports and major sporting events on the planet.

No matter how eloquently officials of the International Paralympic Committee attempt to justify and explain their decision to ban the Russian Paralympians, people around the world understand the real politicization and partisanship behind this unprecedented action. Such restrictions on the participation of the entire team in the Olympic Games cannot disguise the growing Russophobia. We have no doubt that such blatant acts of injustice aim at the denigration and humiliation of Russia through the slandering of her outstanding athletes.

It is our moral duty to our historical homeland to make public our disagreement with this policy of hatred, enmity, and injustice by international sports committees. We are driven by compassion and solidarity with the Russian Paralympic athletes who’ve spent years preparing, overcoming their physical disabilities to earn the right to participate in the greatest international sporting event. They were deprived of their rights with the cruel and inconsiderate decision and without legitimate reasons, other than allegations and insinuations. This is direct and senseless discrimination on a national basis, which we, the citizens of democratic countries, cannot and should not accept as the norm.

On 28 Aug 2016, the United Russian Community of Canada will hold a mass protest in several cities of Canada against the decision of the International Paralympic Committee. We encourage everyone to please come out and join us in voicing support of our Paralympians. They were hit the hardest. Let’s show them our support and solidarity! Please help spread the word about our campaign across the world. People throughout the world should know that we in Canada feel a special responsibility for the unfair and biased report issued by the World Anti-Doping Agency, which initiated and provided the basis for the infamous decision by the IPC.

Together we are the force!

Russian Congress of Canada
Russian Canada
Russian Orthodox Unity of Canada
Russian Friends Group
Communauté Canadienne Culturelle Russophone
Le Monde Russe de Montréal

https://www.facebook.com/events/293947927636974/

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I look forward to hearing about the "mass" protests of a few dozen people. Seriously, why should we Canadians care about this at all?

ETA: from the page -

133interested
66went1.4Kinvited

Heavens. That's quite a mass you've got there.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

Timebandit wrote:
Seriously, why should we Canadians care about this at all?

If you're on a left wing website, then you should also object to "hatred, emnity and injustice" as outlined by the Russian CANADIANS and their organizations. OTOH, if hatred is your bag, try the more right wing sites. They have a lot of that.

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Heavens. That's quite a mass you've got there.

lol. You'll have plenty of chances to mock small demonstrations if you read what's posted on this website. But you might suddenly find yourself outnumbered and under fire. Good luck with that.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

I don't have a problem with demonstrations when they matter, and when there's something they're actually asking for. This one? None of Canada's business, Canada has no influence, there's nothing concrete Canada can do. A total waste of time, energy and digital space. So there are a handful of Canadians who are upset. So what?

FWIW, having Russian ethnic heritage doesn't do squat to make it a Canadian issue, any more than my English forebears make Brexit anything that I have any influence over. Although Brexit is of a whole lot more consequence than whether some athletes get to play a game.

As for being "outnumbered" or "under fire" - I'm assuming you mean that digitally. I'm not overly worried.

Oh, and you're welcome for helping you meet your post quota today.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
as outlined by the Russian CANADIANS

I think you meant RUSSIAN Canadians.

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

OK, but if they were queer Russian Canadians - especially if they were publicly critical of certain domestic law in Russia -  then you'd be more supportive?

I think I'm beginning to understand the bigotry.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Being gay is a right that participation in a sporting event simply isn't.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

There's no bigotry. It's a sports event, which for me equates it immediately to "couldn't care less" status, first of all. Secondly, there's no point. Who are they protesting *to*? If it's to our federal government, what specifically do they want them to do? Advocate for a team they have nothing to do with? Canada doesn't have a dog in this fight. Not our circus, not our monkeys. Let the very capable Russians manage their own affairs. Isn't that something you demand in every other thread?

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Also, they were set to protest in front of Immigration Canada??? Do Russian Paralympic athletes want to immigrate???

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

What's conspicuously absent from this discussion is any sense that by sytematically cheating, Russia did anything wrong, or has anything to fix.

ikosmos goes on and on about the poor Russian athlete who trained their little heart out and may not be eligible to win a medal, or may not be eligible to compete under the cheater's flag.  But nothing about athletes from other countries who didn't bring home the medal they would have earned if some cheater hadn't called up to the podium.

ikosmos, what should Russia do about this, if anything?  Surrender medals won disgracefully?  Apologize to the world sporting community?  Anything at all, besides sue the IOC/IPC?  Wouldn't the tiniest degree of humble seem appropriate, under the circumstances?

They were poor sports for cheating, but then whining and moaning that their country and their country's athletes are the real victims takes poor sportsmanship to a world record level.

iyraste1313

ikosmos...thank you for this thread...no doubt this will not be the last attack and vs. the Russian organizations in Canada

swallow

Did someone attack Russian organizations in Canada? That would be worth a response. But I'm not aware of it having happened. This thread is about some sort of Olympics athletes thing, isn't it? 

ikosmos ikosmos's picture

There's fuck all evidence. And, I will go out on a limb and say that this will come back and bite the IOC on the ass.

 

Edited to add: There's an unsubstantiated attack on the Russian Para-Olympic team, banning them from participation in the greatest sporting event in the world on spurious and malicious grounds,  ruining years of hard work and dedication by these abled disabled athletes, and all we get here is gloating, contempt, disdain and an ugly enthusiasm to treat with silence the  [Russian] Canadians that [understandably] speak up against this organized cruelty. 

Way to go, babblers.

 

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Russian Paralympics ban appeal rejected by Swiss supreme court

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The Russian Paralympic Committee would have needed to demonstrate it had fulfilled its obligations in upholding... anti-doping protocols, and that its interests in an immediate lifting of its suspension outweigh the International Paralympics Committee's interests in fighting doping and in the integrity of athletics. It did not succeed in this in any way,

Sten Gunnerman

No one likes a hypocrite. All US athletes should therefore be permanently banned from international competition as a consequence of the systemic, years-long, fully substantiated doping of cheating weasels like Lance Armstrong. 

drugged out

6079_Smith_W

The ban was imposed not because of something someone else did, but because the organization itself was involved. So your example doesn't apply.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
All US athletes should therefore be permanently banned from international competition as a consequence of the systemic, years-long, fully substantiated doping of cheating weasels like Lance Armstrong.

I'm pretty sure "all Russian athletes" are not "permanently banned from international competition".

Also, what Smith said.

Sten Gunnerman

My example merely serves to illustrate the rank hypocricy of Americans pointing the finger over doping, and where collective punishment might lead pursuant to the precedent set by this pathetic case. Punishing disabled athletes for something that they have not been proven guilty of is classy indeed, and will do doubt prove highly profitable for those working in the field of sports litigation. 

Unlike you, I do not believe that individuals should be punished for the actions of the organization to which they belong if they have had no hand in said actions, and I am nowhere near alone in this regard.This principle is integral to the legal systems of every civilized nation.

Professor Peter Donnelly, who is the Director of the U of T Centre for Sport Policy Studies, offers some excellent context on the broader policy implications of the case here: https://www.utoronto.ca/news/russian-athletes-innocent-until-proven-guilty

Ron Katz, Senior Counsel in the Entertainment/Sports/Media Litigation Practice Group at Manatt, Phelps & Phillips LLP and Distinguished Careers Institute Fellow at Stanford University nails it: "Mass punishment without regard to guilt is fundamentally opposed to the basic tenets of western civilization. Mass punishment of people who have overcome handicaps to become world-class athletes makes the situation much worse, if that is possible."

We'll see you in court.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
My example merely serves to illustrate the rank hypocricy of Americans pointing the finger over doping, and where collective punishment might lead pursuant to the precedent set by this pathetic case.

Why would it lead to an entire nation being barred from competition if that nation itself didn't cheat?

Do you understand the difference between Lance Armstrong and his doctor doping, and a country's Ministry of Sport doping?

Quote:
Unlike you, I do not believe that individuals should be punished for the actions of the organization to which they belong if they have had no hand in said actions, and I am nowhere near alone in this regard.This principle is integral to the legal systems of every civilized nation.

Oh, gosh.

So if everyone on the Toronto Blue Jays cheats except the catcher, that catcher should still go on to the World Series?  Is that basically what you're saying?

If an athlete cheats, that athlete should be disqualified.

If a team cheats, that team should be disqualified (YES!  Even if one guy wasn't in on it!)

But what shall we do, then, when a country cheats?  IIRC, some of these clean athletes didn't want to simply compete as clean independent athletes -- they wanted their cheater's flag to fly if they won.  What should we do in that case?  If they can't compete as a representative of a cheating country, but they don't want to simply compete as a clean individual, what's really left?

NorthReport

Let's have several Olympics:

1 - for the Americans to compete amongst themselves as they appear to be in a league by themselves
2 - for the athletes who use drugs whether before, now, or in the future
3 - for the rest of the non American, non-doping athletes
4 - the Para Olympics

The problem is what to do about the Para Olympic athletes who use drugs

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The problem is what to do about the disabled athletes who use drugs

Or not even just that.

A fascinating gambit for some paralympians -- those with a spinal cord injury, who use a wheelchair -- is to clamp off their urinary catheter.  This "backs up" their urine output, stimulates autonomic dysreflexia, and jacks their blood pressure through the roof -- then it's "go time".

Sten Gunnerman

Do you understand that the judgement against Russia is based solely on the testimony of the chief perpetrator in the affair and "other witnesses who came forward on a confidential basis"? That shit won't fly in a court of law.

Do you understand that the "investigators" did not actually go to Russia to investigate? Nice work.

Do you understand that people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty?

Keep your anti-Russian McCarthyite paranoia under your tinfoil hat where it belongs so it won't hurt any more disabled athletes.

NorthReport
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Do you understand that the judgement against Russia is based solely on the testimony of the chief perpetrator in the affair and "other witnesses who came forward on a confidential basis"? That shit won't fly in a court of law.

Good thing it's not a court of law.

Quote:
Do you understand that the "investigators" did not actually go to Russia to investigate? Nice work.

They didn't dust Russia for fingerprints??

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Do you understand that people should be presumed innocent until proven guilty?

This wasn't a ban on individuals, it was a ban on countries.

But hey, Sten, how's your first real day of babbling going?

Seems you joined up here about three and a half years ago, said nothing, and got woken in time to have strong feelings in this thread, and only this thread.  Do you have any recipes to share, or anything??  Or have you just been lying in wait until the inevitable day that Russia would be done wrong by?

Sten Gunnerman
NorthReport

Ya see, that's the thing. No one said anything about the Americans not doping, and Canadians well remember Ben Johnston but none of that shit cones anywhere close to the state sponsored wholesale Russian doping does it? Do you really believe lefties supporting bad actions is good for the cause comrade?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:
Ya see, that's the thing. No one said anything about the Americans not doping, and Canadians well remember Ben Johnston but none of that shit cones anywhere close to the state sponsored wholesale Russian doping does it? Do you really believe lefties supporting bad actions is good for the cause comrade?

Some of us lefties like to see the evidence before we presume that athletes who compete for countries even those that are on the NATO enemy's list are all guilty by association. 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/feb/01/russians-hail-triumph-of-j...

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Are they all cleared, or just some?

bekayne

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Are they all cleared, or just some?

I think it was 28 out of 39

6079_Smith_W

Not cleared. Insufficient evidence, and there will likely be an appeal. Frankly I am less concerned about this than the fact that they nailed the architects. In the case of athletes how is anyone to know that they weren't coerced into going along with it?