Mulcair Doesn't Rule Out F-35 Purchase

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terrytowel
Mulcair Doesn't Rule Out F-35 Purchase

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terrytowel

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.

I'm SHOCKED. That is NOT the NDP. They should calling for an outright cancellation of this purchase.

As Jack Layton said in 2011

The Canadian military should concentrate on peacekeeping and not making war. And he said that means scrapping the $16-billion F-35 jet fighters deal along greater attention to Canada’s naval needs.

“We need a made-in-Canada defence plan that ensures our defence procurement needs match our domestic security and foreign policy objectives,” Layton said during an early morning election rally at the Fort Hill National Historic Site.

“The New Democrats’ defence priorities will focus our military resource on … defending and protecting Canadians, assisting people when disaster strikes at home or abroad and providing support for peacekeeping and peace building around the world,” he said.

You guys can spin this all you want, the old NDP would never leave open the door to buy these massive fire jets.

As Jack Layton said on 2011

“For five years Stephen Harper has failed to produce the ships we need to patrol the world’s longest shoreline. Canada’s supply ships have reached the end of their operation lives. Instead of focusing on F-35 fighter jets, I’ll get the job done when it comes to building joint support ships for our naval forces,” he said.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/04/08/canadian_military_should_r...

More further proof the NDP is veering right, and abandoning the left. As Justin Trudeau just poached Jack Layton's Military policy, verbatim.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

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terrytowel

Great deflect bagkitty, but you cannot defend the indefensible. Mulcair should be advocating outright cancellation like Layton did. And NOT leaving the door open to purchase the F-35.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Well, as a deflect, it is certain preferable to the old Hollywood trope of a short, sharp slap (although I must admit I was tempted). I would refer you to Lawrence Martin's column (August 25th) over in the Globe. The focus on a specific program (like the F-35s) is certainly eye-catching, but it doesn't address the underlying program with procurement polices as exemplified by previous Conservate and Liberal administrations.

LawrenceMartin wrote:

The approach being considered by the NDP would abandon the Tory plan to purchase hyper-expensive F-35 fighter jets and aim for something more reasonably priced. Among the NDP’s other priorities are search and rescue helicopters, armoured trucks for the army, supply ships for the Navy, more spending on housing and health care for the troops.

A big emphasis would be put on cleaning up the procurement process. While the Tories like to boast of being prudent financial mangers, they have overseen one procurement debacle after another.

6079_Smith_W

x

terrytowel

BagKitty Mulcair is not calling for outright cancellation. But leaving the door open to accept other bids.

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/trudeau-harper-mulcair-battle-ove...

And

"I’m not saying anything should be off the table (F-35)"

Of course we should be looking at other options but if the F-35 can meet those criteria, that’s too but you have to say what they are.

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/mulcair-on-the-f-35/

NDPP

 

F-35 Fighter Jet More Problematic and Costly Than Ever Imagined - Air Force Secretary

https://www.rt.com/usa/311126-f-35-problems-extremely-expensive/

"The F-35, made by Lockheed Martin Corp, is the most expensive US weapons system ever, at nearly $400 billion for a planned fleet of over 2,400 aircraft.

The F-35's shortcomings, involve a series of hardware malfunctions and software glitches that have set the program back more than three years and pushed it some $200 billion over its initial budget, according to CNN. In a mock dog-fight in January, the F-35 failed to turn quickly enough to engage an F-16, the plane it is supposed to replace.

Other problems have included engines catching fire, as well as unreliable engine performance in general. The software system intended to identify maintenance issues was found to give false-positive readings 80 percent of the time."

 

quizzical

hey bagkitty loved your poop scoop link

 

Quote:
The approach being considered by the NDP would abandon the Tory plan to purchase hyper-expensive F-35 fighter jets and aim for something more reasonably priced. Among the NDP’s other priorities are search and rescue helicopters, armoured trucks for the army, supply ships for the Navy, more spending on housing and health care for the troops.

A big emphasis would be put on cleaning up the procurement process. While the Tories like to boast of being prudent financial mangers, they have overseen one procurement debacle after another.

Michael Byers, a defence specialist and former NDP candidate, says that given the resulting shortfalls in military hardware “any government that is serious about completing necessary procurements would therefore incur higher costs.” 

 

jjuares

Another thread courtesy of the Liberal war room. The NDP is promising to take the lowest bid that conforms to our needs. As Terrytowel says that is shocking. They should do what parties usually do: take the bid from the company that has the most ties to the governing party.

quizzical

terry your article you linked to macleans really doesn't support your contentions.

and how many times now have you been asked not to fabricate shit? yet you leave it dropped all over the place here and bagkitty and others have to clean it up or risk ecoli poisoning.

 

Quote:
So we know that they are going to be looking at alternatives but from your point of view, should the F-35 itself be off the table? Should we be only looking now at alternatives to the F-35? 

Thomas Mulcair: You define your need, you define your price range, and then you go to the lowest conforming bidder. I’m not saying anything should be off the table, that’s the mistake the Conservatives made. Even when they got caught in their series of lies the first time and they were derisive and dismissive and they were mocking anybody who dared even question them. And we didn’t know anything about this, how could we even ask questions of a great military genius like Peter MacKay. Now they’re going to have to wear it. Of course we should be looking at other options but if the F-35 can meet those criteria, that’s too but you have to say what they are. They’ve never even done that basic exercise. That’s the real problem here. We have the CF-18’s right now. There’s something called the super…that’s the Hornet. There’s something called the Super Hornet, it’s very close and a lot of the preparatory work is already done. We’ve got teams that are already prepared to do that. That would be one of the first ones I’d look at. There are other planes in the world Tom that could be looked at, but again if we haven’t even defined what our own needs are, how are you going to be able to say that you’ve got the lowest conforming bidder?

 

terrytowel

Another deflection to deivert attention away from the NDP stance to be pro-F-35. WOW and I thought both of you supported peacekeeping and not war. My mistake. Especially now with the NDP pro-F-35 stance. Who would have thought the NDP would be so pro-military jet.

Mulcair said CRYSTAL CLEAR this morning

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.

He is NOT abandoning anything. But leaving the door open to purchase F-35.

There is no dispute no matter how many ways you try to deflect or divert attention.

The NDP is now pro-F-35. PERIOD.

jjuares

terrytowel wrote:

Another deflection to deivert attention away from the NDP stance to be pro-F-35. WOW and I thought both of you supported peacekeeping and not war. My mistake. Especially now with the NDP pro-F-35 stance. Who would have thought the NDP would be so pro-military jet.

Mulcair said CRYSTAL CLEAR this morning

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.

There is no dispute no matter how many ways you try to deflect or divert attention.

The NDP is now pro-F-35. PERIOD.


How is having a fair competition pro- 35?

terrytowel

jjuares wrote:
How is having a fair competition pro- 35?

He should cancel the F-35 purchase. That was NDP policy in 2011.

quizzical

*pulls rubber gloves and boots on to avoid being contaminated by the fabricated shit being dropped everywhere

from the Liberal war room's linked Maclean's article being cut short everywhere in their fabrications....

Quote:
The high-tech stealth jets were a frequent talking point during the 2011 campaign. Since then, however, the federal auditor general has pilloried the government for being less than forthright in telling Canadians the true cost of procurement, and for not doing enough homework before opting for the F-35.

The purchase of the jet was then put on hold while officials conducted additional studies and analyses, while the life of the CF-18s was extended to 2025.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair called the purchase a “completely failed process” that showed a need for a new bidding process.

 

bekayne

So not necessarily F-35s, but F-35s if necessary.

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

and how many times now have you been asked not to fabricate shit? yet you leave it dropped all over the place here and bagkitty and others have to clean it up or risk ecoli poisoning.

If you READ the title of the thread "Mulcair Doesn't Rule Out F-35 Purchase" How is that fabricating?

The article bagkitty provided is from August. We are in September. Things have changed.

Mulcair said CRYSTAL CLEAR this morning

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Thomas Mulcair said today.

As Macleans says "He didn’t rule out purchasing the F-35." How is that misleading? It is the same as the title of this thread?

http://www.macleans.ca/politics/ottawa/trudeau-harper-mulcair-battle-ove...

He is NOT abandoning anything. But leaving the door open to purchase F-35. PERIOD

terrytowel

quizzical wrote:

*pulls rubber gloves and boots on to avoid being contaminated by the fabricated shit being dropped everywhere

from the Liberal war room's linked Maclean's article being cut short everywhere in their fabrications....

Quote:
The high-tech stealth jets were a frequent talking point during the 2011 campaign. Since then, however, the federal auditor general has pilloried the government for being less than forthright in telling Canadians the true cost of procurement, and for not doing enough homework before opting for the F-35.

The purchase of the jet was then put on hold while officials conducted additional studies and analyses, while the life of the CF-18s was extended to 2025.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair called the purchase a “completely failed process” that showed a need for a new bidding process.

But you CUT OUT the rest which clearly states

He didn’t rule out purchasing the F-35.

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Mulcair said.

 

terrytowel

bekayne wrote:

So not necessarily F-35s, but F-35s if necessary.

But 2011 NDP policy was outright cancellation.

jjuares

terrytowel wrote:

quizzical wrote:

*pulls rubber gloves and boots on to avoid being contaminated by the fabricated shit being dropped everywhere

from the Liberal war room's linked Maclean's article being cut short everywhere in their fabrications....

Quote:
The high-tech stealth jets were a frequent talking point during the 2011 campaign. Since then, however, the federal auditor general has pilloried the government for being less than forthright in telling Canadians the true cost of procurement, and for not doing enough homework before opting for the F-35.

The purchase of the jet was then put on hold while officials conducted additional studies and analyses, while the life of the CF-18s was extended to 2025.

NDP Leader Tom Mulcair called the purchase a “completely failed process” that showed a need for a new bidding process.

But you CUT OUT the rest which clearly states

He didn’t rule out purchasing the F-35.

“An NDP government would start the process over, make sure we define what we need for our military, and then we go to the lowest conforming bidder that has the product that meets our needs,” Mulcair said.

 


Yeah that's right. I am glad you added the second part. He is going to go with the lowest bidder. How shameful of Mulcair everyone knows he should go with the highest, This is pure unmitigated Liberal bullshit.

Sean in Ottawa

Once again NDP communications being stupid and cute.

In its place, the Liberals said they would launch an "open and transparent competition" to buy more affordable planes to replace Canada's aging CF-18 jets. Trudeau said the money saved by scrapping the F-35 procurement would go primarily to increasing spending on the Royal Canadian Navy.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-trudeau-scrap-f35-h...

what the NDP is doing is screasming at the Liberals even when they articulate the same policy the NDP advocates or one so close that the over-the-top reaction from the NDP is embarassing.

This is how the NDP is blowing this election.

The facts: Both the NDP and Liberals are promising to scrap the F-35 and replace them with a better option.

Undecided voters are becoming disgusted wit this kind of tactic from the NDP.

The Liberals are copying a number of NDP positions in their run from the left. The correct response form the NDP should be to welcome them to the right position. Once in a while the NDP can quesiton if the Liberals can be trusted perhaps but to outright demonize and ridicule a position that is almost identical to the NDP position is stupid.

Sometime you can shut up and get out of the way as well. The Liberals and Conservatives are going to fight on this. There was no need to enter into this debate with a difficult-to-understand position. Harper was going to call Trudeau irresponsible. Why would Mulcair on this point when his position is hardly any different.

This is another indication that the NDP brain-trust is out of control and out of touch.

Is Mulcair trying to organize a Horwath type collapse to allow the Liberals to outflank him on the left?

This after that stupid poll communications.

This week the NDP has reverse Midas -- everything they touch turns to shit. Maybe they need to take a day off and come back less cutet, more direct and focusing on what matters. Calling Trudeau stupid on everyting -- even what the NDP base supports -- is a losing strategy.

If anyone is listening in the NDP HQ -- send me your address and I'll send you an alarm clock. Wake the F up.

This defeat the NDP is going to suffer on Oct. 19th will hurt badly becuase it is so absolutely unnecessary and totally self-inflicted.

***

And let's look at the language because it is so important. Trudeau says he would end the F-35 procurement program. Trudeau has not entirely ruled out F-35s in a new procurement program -- just the program which, as it stands, ought to be scrapped. No daylight between Trudeau's current position and Mulcair's.

 

terrytowel

Everything that Sean in Ottawa has said I agree with 100% While NDP partisans are twisting themselves in a pretzel to try and defend this policy, it driving other left-leaning  voters to the Liberals because of their outright cancellation of the F-35. Thomas Mulcair should of just echoed Trudeau stance. But to be different he left the door open for an F-35 purchase. Which is contrary to NDP policy to promote peacekeeping over military action.

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

Everything that Sean in Ottawa has said I agree with 100% While NDP partisans are twisting themselves in a pretzel to try and defend this policy, it driving other left-leaning  voters to the Liberals because of their outright cancellation of the F-35. Thomas Mulcair should of just echoed Trudeau stance. But to be different he left the door open for an F-35 purchase. Which is 100% contracy to NDP policy to promote peacekeeping over military action.

Actually my point is BOTH of them have left the door open and BOTH are calling for scrapping the procurement program as it is and starting over.

Calling someone who has the same position as you stupid is -- well -- stupid.

terrytowel

jjuares wrote:
Yeah that's right. I am glad you added the second part. He is going to go with the lowest bidder. How shameful of Mulcair everyone knows he should go with the highest, This is pure unmitigated Liberal bullshit.

No he should of said what Jack Layton said in 2011. Outright cancellation.

“The New Democrats’ defence priorities will focus our military resource on … defending and protecting Canadians, assisting people when disaster strikes at home or abroad and providing support for peacekeeping and peace building around the world,”

Jack Layton 2011

terrytowel

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Everything that Sean in Ottawa has said I agree with 100% While NDP partisans are twisting themselves in a pretzel to try and defend this policy, it driving other left-leaning  voters to the Liberals because of their outright cancellation of the F-35. Thomas Mulcair should of just echoed Trudeau stance. But to be different he left the door open for an F-35 purchase. Which is 100% contracy to NDP policy to promote peacekeeping over military action.

Actually my point is BOTH of them have left the door open and BOTH are calling for scrapping the procurement program as it is and starting over.

Calling someone who has the same position as you stupid is -- well -- stupid.

Trudeau said he was goinig to SCRAP F-35 fighter jet program. Mulcair is leaving the door open to purchase F-35.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-trudeau-scrap-f35-h...

quizzical

imv you don't read Sean's posts to well terrytowel and in your haste your making claims  Sean didn't say.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

jjuares

Terrytowel, let's get this straight the F-35 should be excluded from the bidding process because......

terrytowel

jjuares wrote:
Terrytowel, let's get this straight the F-35 should be excluded from the bidding process because......

Of what Jack Layton said on 2011

"Instead of focusing on F-35 fighter jets, I’ll get the job done when it comes to building joint support ships for our naval forces,”.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/04/08/canadian_military_should_r...

quizzical & bagkitty you can joke all you want but if Mulcair doesn't be more FORCEFUL on this issue and advocate outright cancellation on the F-35, he will lose votes to those who oppose war.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I agree with terry. Canada should be peacekeepers not war mongers. We shouldn't be buying F-35 or any other war machines.

It's time to pull out of NATO and make Canada a neutral country.

terrytowel

alan smithee wrote:

I agree with terry. Canada should be peacekeepers not war mongers. We shouldn't be buying F-35 or any other war machines.

It's time to pull out of NATO and make Canada a neutral country.

EXACTLY. That has been the NDP position as it has been for DECADES. Yet we have Mulcair being open to purchasing F-35?

jjuares

Now that I look at Trudeaus position it's even stupider than I first believed. He is going to buy cheaper airplanes. I didn't see any mention of process. He certainly could buy cheaper ones. Just place a machine gun on a used Cessna for example. Without a process all things can be considered. Now I believe the f-35 would probably lose any fair process and I wish the Liberal gov. Under Chrétien hadn't got us involved in this process at all. The CF-18's are coming to the end of their life span and something has to be done and hopefully that will involve a sophisticated bidding and procurement plan to find a replacement. If Justin wins that sounds like that won't be the case and he will be selecting the appropriate plane.

Sean in Ottawa

terrytowel wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

terrytowel wrote:

Everything that Sean in Ottawa has said I agree with 100% While NDP partisans are twisting themselves in a pretzel to try and defend this policy, it driving other left-leaning  voters to the Liberals because of their outright cancellation of the F-35. Thomas Mulcair should of just echoed Trudeau stance. But to be different he left the door open for an F-35 purchase. Which is 100% contracy to NDP policy to promote peacekeeping over military action.

Actually my point is BOTH of them have left the door open and BOTH are calling for scrapping the procurement program as it is and starting over.

Calling someone who has the same position as you stupid is -- well -- stupid.

Trudeau said he was goinig to SCRAP F-35 fighter jet program. Mulcair is leaving the door open to purchase F-35.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-election-2015-trudeau-scrap-f35-h...

As I said both are -- Trudeau is scrapping the procurement program -- he has left the door open for a new program to come to the same jet if it turns out to be the best thing.

jjuares

terrytowel wrote:

alan smithee wrote:

I agree with terry. Canada should be peacekeepers not war mongers. We shouldn't be buying F-35 or any other war machines.

It's time to pull out of NATO and make Canada a neutral country.

EXACTLY. That has been the NDP position as it has been for DECADES. Yet we have Mulcair being open to purchasing F-35?


But of course that is not Justin's position. He wants to choose a cheaper plane and presumably do the selection himself.

terrytowel

I go back to Jack Layton position in 2011

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/04/08/canadian_military_should_r...

That should be Mulcair position. He will lose votes over this, by even flirting with buying any jets.

 

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

Okay, we have heard from Towlie and Smithee... perhaps we have a ponderous posting in our future.

As to the SUBSTANCE of le Dauphin's promise, is that a pinky swear? or like his papa's promise about wage and price controls? or Chretien's vow about the GST? or Martin's promise to scrap NAFTA? or any other red-bookish promise the Liberals have made in the past?

The Liberal campaign is based on everyone forgetting the Liberal record. News flash, the Liberal Party was not magically transformed on April 14, 2013 -- it has a history to answer for and a significant part of that history is lying to the electorate during campaigns.

Sean in Ottawa

jjuares wrote:
Now that I look at Trudeaus position it's even stupider than I first believed. He is going to buy cheaper airplanes. I didn't see any mention of process. He certainly could buy cheaper ones. Just place a machine gun on a used Cessna for example. Without a process all things can be considered. Now I believe the f-35 would probably lose any fair process and I wish the Liberal gov. Under Chrétien hadn't got us involved in this process at all. The CF-18's are coming to the end of their life span and something has to be done and hopefully that will involve a sophisticated bidding and procurement plan to find a replacement. If Justin wins that sounds like that won't be the case and he will be selecting the appropriate plane.

But the truth is both want to exam ine another process and hope to save money with a new process. Neither is completely ruling out F-35s if a new process goes there.

That said I think we should redefine the need to not include these kinds of missions. A plane that can be used over Canada for our defense would cost less and that is what we need to do. And if the NDP does not want to run a deficit -- the F-35 is exactly the type of program that needs to go.

I am shocked at Mulcair's response from a communications point of view. It is an over-the-top attack on a position that is very similar to his own. there ought to have been at least some civility over a position this close to the NDP position and one that NDP supporters might better understand and support more than the dog's breakfast Mulcair is making NDP policy on this.

Mulcair and Trudeau, if they want to look like they are capable of governing, ought to look at each other's programs and find some things they can be polite about. Voters could well turn to the Conservatives in disgust. Both are playing this stupid game and both can lose for it. Their programs are close enough that it would not be hard to find things to like in both. This hard line hostile auto reject of the other's positions is sickening.

We ahve seen this from Trudeau and today the pettiness and stupidity is with Mulcair. Pretty sad that he could think this is a winning strategy.

And yes, I am hearing from people who have previously promised to support either the NDP or the Liebrals say they are being alienated by this crap. Some may go CPC, some may vote for whichever one they think is being the least "assholeish" and some may not vote. Two out of three helps Harper.

terrytowel

Again I agree 100% with Sean in Ottawa

And to bagkitty well you can read this http://rabble.ca/comment/1527191#comment-1527191

jjuares

Trudeau plans on buying a cheaper jet. Presuming he is going to go with a bidding and procurement process in which capabilities are spelled out it seems he is excluding the F-35. Now under NAFtA he could open the gov. up to a potential lawsuit. I know of no legitimate process in which you can exclude a company beforehand. Perhaps he could manipulate the process by dropping some specifications to get the price low enough to exclude the F-35. The F-35 competitors are not without their own problems and over runs so this may not seem as easy as it seems.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

The 1990's are long over. I can prove it with the fact that my hair isn't long anymore and you can't smoke in bars anymore.

Always back to the 'red book' How about we lament the 1980's too?

I don't give a fuck if you're red or orange,Trudeau or Mulcair. We shouldn't be buying war machines.PERIOD.

Once again I will reiterate -- Canada must leave NATO and become a neutral country.

What is there to misunderstand?!

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I kind of feel like this whole thread is my fault.

Quote:
You really seem to be hitching a tiny little dog to a great big wagon of hope here, terrytowel.  You should look for a better gotcha.

jjuares

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

jjuares wrote:
Now that I look at Trudeaus position it's even stupider than I first believed. He is going to buy cheaper airplanes. I didn't see any mention of process. He certainly could buy cheaper ones. Just place a machine gun on a used Cessna for example. Without a process all things can be considered. Now I believe the f-35 would probably lose any fair process and I wish the Liberal gov. Under Chrétien hadn't got us involved in this process at all. The CF-18's are coming to the end of their life span and something has to be done and hopefully that will involve a sophisticated bidding and procurement plan to find a replacement. If Justin wins that sounds like that won't be the case and he will be selecting the appropriate plane.

But the truth is both want to exam ine another process and hope to save money with a new process. Neither is completely ruling out F-35s if a new process goes there.

That said I think we should redefine the need to not include these kinds of missions. A plane that can be used over Canada for our defense would cost less and that is what we need to do. And if the NDP does not want to run a deficit -- the F-35 is exactly the type of program that needs to go.

I am shocked at Mulcair's response from a communications point of view. It is an over-the-top attack on a position that is very similar to his own. there ought to have been at least some civility over a position this close to the NDP position and one that NDP supporters might better understand and support more than the dog's breakfast Mulcair is making NDP policy on this.

Mulcair and Trudeau, if they want to look like they are capable of governing, ought to look at each other's programs and find some things they can be polite about. Voters could well turn to the Conservatives in disgust. Both are playing this stupid game and both can lose for it. Their programs are close enough that it would not be hard to find things to like in both. This hard line hostile auto reject of the other's positions is sickening.

We ahve seen this from Trudeau and today the pettiness and stupidity is with Mulcair. Pretty sad that he could think this is a winning strategy.

And yes, I am hearing from people who have previously promised to support either the NDP or the Liebrals say they are being alienated by this crap. Some may go CPC, some may vote for whichever one they think is being the least "assholeish" and some may not vote. Two out of three helps Harper.


But Sean unless I am misreading this Trudeau is excluding the F-35 from the process. Now I believe the F-35 is the wrong plane. For example for pilot safety we should pick a two engine plane to fly over the North. But politicians shooting off their mouths on which plane to choose is not a neutral and professional way to make these choices.

terrytowel

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I kind of feel like this whole thread is my fault.

Quote:
You really seem to be hitching a tiny little dog to a great big wagon of hope here, terrytowel.  You should look for a better gotcha.

Mr. Magoo well you can read this http://rabble.ca/comment/1527191#comment-1527191

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

terrytowel

bagkitty laugh all you want, but you can read this http://rabble.ca/comment/1527191#comment-1527191

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Mr. Magoo well you can read this http://rabble.ca/comment/1527191#comment-1527191

terry, I was concern-trolling when you were still in short pants.  Don't try to play a player.

jjuares

terrytowel wrote:

bagkitty laugh all you want, but you can read this http://rabble.ca/comment/1527191#comment-1527191


You keep bringing up Jack's four year old comment as if that is definitive. Are you saying that Jack was proposing that the Air Force not have any jets? Because if in fact he was opposing that it is fine. However, not one of the three holds anything close to that position. Harper wants the F-35, Justin wants something else and to exclude the f-35 from consideration and Mulcair wants an open process. They all want a new plane though.

terrytowel

I go back to Jack Layton position in 2011

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2011/04/08/canadian_military_should_r...

That should be Mulcair position. He will lose votes over this, by even flirting with buying any jets.

 If you support Mulcair jet buying policy, fine. But he will lose votes.

bagkitty bagkitty's picture

As to the need for new jets (from an article on the Sukhoi T-50, Russia's "response" to the F-35):

"There is no mission and no adversary for such plane(s)," Russian defense analyst Konovalov says. "It would be more expedient to fit modern avionics to older generation jets." (emphasis added)

WHY IS TRUDEAU NOT DEMANDING FITTING MODERN AVIONICS TO OLDER GENERATION JETS?

SHOCKED, I AM, ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!

terrytowel

jjuares wrote:
[You keep bringing up Jack's four year old comment as if that is definitive. Are you saying that Jack was proposing that the Air Force not have any jets? Because if in fact he was opposing that it is fine.

What I am saying is that Mulcair should have followed Layton policy from 2011. Jack Layton advocating scrapping the F35 program and build warships instead.

terrytowel

bagkitty wrote:

As to the need for new jets (from an article on the Sukhoi T-50, Russia's "response" to the F-35):

"There is no mission and no adversary for such plane(s)," Russian defense analyst Konovalov says. "It would be more expedient to fit modern avionics to older generation jets." (emphasis added)

WHY IS TRUDEAU NOT DEMANDING FITTING MODERN AVIONICS TO OLDER GENERATION JETS?

SHOCKED, I AM, ABSOLUTELY SHOCKED!

 But bagkitty if you are pro-F-35 that is fine. I'm not. As Jack Layton said we shouldn't even be buying F-35 fighter jets at all.

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