Sentencing for rapists

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Apemantus

quote:


The moment you start saying that it is better to jail ten innocent people than let one guilty person go because of a relaxed burden of proof is the day I check out of this society.

Really interesting Doc that you spewed that out, as it is rubbish. Of course, the reverse is often advocated - that it is better to let ten guilty people go than jail one innocent person (which I assume is why you turned it on its head).

However, 2 points occur to me.

1. If it meant jailing ten innocents for one guilty, then I too would check out of the society, but that is so extreme a figure that I would actually rephrase it like this. If one innocent person went to prison for every 50 guilty ones, that might be a price I could bear. Why? Because at the moment...

2. Ten guilty people at least seem to be being let go to avoid jailing the one innocent. (The statistics most recently discussed in the UK said that with rape, the percentage of rapists being sent down (for pitifully short sentences) is is minimal, perhaps as low as 1 in 20 or 50 (a lot is supposition, but such is the nature of this one - I can understand that might offend your scientific mind, but alas nowt I can do on that front!)

Sure, there are HUGE dangers in changing the burden of proof, but something does need to be done (and there is a lot that can be done before we get to changing the burden, but I am not discounting the possibility), because at the moment, men are literally getting away with it, nearly all the time, nearly all over the place.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

quote:


1. If it meant jailing ten innocents for one guilty, then I too would check out of the society, but that is so extreme a figure that I would actually rephrase it like this. If one innocent person went to prison for every 50 guilty ones, that might be a price I could bear. Why? Because at the moment...


Most people could bear the 1 in 50 except for the one.

Apemantus

Yeah, and you know what, a few of those 'most' would be the women that are now living as a rape victim, and whose attacker still roams free.

So, given the full choice (rather than the edited version you provided as a blatant troll), I'll take the least worst. Because it is least worst by a big enough margin.

Don't forget having your clear conscience (or however you may wish to describe it) also has a price - as long as you're happy to pay yours, I am only too happy to pay mine.

[img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

peripatetic

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/01/international/asia/01STAN.html]6 Pakistanis Sentenced to Hang for Gang-Rape[/url]

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-pakistan-gang... Rape Victim Satisfied with Verdict[/url]

Michelle

I'm torn on this. I'm against capital punishment, but dammit, I don't feel one bit sorry for those men. If I were that woman, I would be present at each execution, look each man in the eye just before they died, and tell them to take one good last look at my body so they can remember what they're paying for with their lives. Bastards. And then I would probably be haunted by their deaths for the rest of my life, and with remorse for my vindictiveness.

I guess that's why I think punishments should be dealt out by an uninvolved third party rather than directly by the victims.

Pogo Pogo's picture

Some violent criminals are redeemable and we should spend the resources to redeem them. I think a lot though are 'hardwired' to have a violent antisocial nature. With these guys (usually guys), we should keep them away from anything they are a danger to. For some that might mean lifelong restraining orders, for others confinement.

I believe science is working hard to identify hardwire issues. While I am generally okay with this, I am worried on the Orwellian potential. To be told that your hardwiring will kick in when you hit puberty and that necessarily you will need to be segregated from society seem rash. On the other hand do we let timebombs that we can identify walk around.

[ September 01, 2002: Message edited by: Pogo ]

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

quote:


Don't forget having your clear conscience (or however you may wish to describe it) also has a price - as long as you're happy to pay yours, I am only too happy to pay mine.

Could you explain what you mean by this statement. If it some sort of veiled suggestion that I have ever raped a woman you have now completely made the point for not changing the burden. You need proof to convict people of serious violent crimes. Being a man is not proof I or any other [b]specific[/b] man has committed a rape or sexual abuse.

I still think that in theory we all want every perpertrator of violence against others to face severe criminal sanctions. That has always been and will always be a dilema for people who also are wary of the state being able to send an individual to jail without full disclosure of the case against them.

Oh and for the record I believe that sentencing for rape and spousal abuse is too lenient no matter what the gender of the abuser

writer writer's picture

rape and race

oldgoat

Of the threads you're resurrecting writer, I guess I may as well jump in on this one first of all to say no, I'm not going to just close it now for length.

These threads are timely and still have a lot of good life left within them. I also like that they preserve wisdom (and in some cases not) from babblers of yore. If anything underscores that these discussions are useful and timely, take a look at the Duke lacrosse thread I just closed for length.

writer writer's picture
writer writer's picture
writer writer's picture

quote:


[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=005872&p=... do Canadians rape more? It's not our love affair with condoms [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

[/url]

writer writer's picture
writer writer's picture

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000022]Rape and capital punishment[/url] - talk about torture and rape ... brutally raping ... none of that sweet, gentle, love-filled raping us rape victims so fondly recall ...

Some of my favourite progressive turns of phrases - right up there with innocent victims ...

writer writer's picture

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000010]More raping and killing and capital punishment[/url]

writer writer's picture

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=004183]Rape and guns redux[/url]

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=004368]Ge... back to the rape and guns thing[/url]

[ 15 June 2007: Message edited by: writer ]

writer writer's picture
writer writer's picture

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=007709]Some babblers find the rape of a man funny[/url]

writer writer's picture

[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=008836]Pe... like Writer want to offer justifications and excuses for these atrocities.[/url]

remind remind's picture

Just a bump because this is a good list of links for people to book mark so they can learn about women, and rape.

jrose

Over 100 posts, please start another thread

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