2020 Democratic Presidential Nominee

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NorthReport

If Warren wins how about her choosing Amy Klobuchar as VP, eh!

NDPP

The Jimmy Dore Show

https://youtu.be/_APy8U8yQRk

"Kamala campaign praises Hillary's war-mongering..."

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Thanks for this topic and the informed posts. It makes it easier to navigate through the Dem nominations. I had heard murmurs from my friends in the US that Harris was not as shiny and great as she appeared to be. Is she the one that was a district attorney? Supposedly she was very hard-assed in some of her decisions and not very progressive.

voice of the damned

That's not how we use "Say it ain't so".

The phrase is used to address the person who is accused of doing the bad thing, and expresses sarcastic faith in their innocence, eg. "The Liberals buying an overpriced, sludge-spewing pipeline? Say it ain't so, Justin!" 

In the American case, the people allegedly doing the bad stuff are the DNC, not Gabbard. So you might say "Say it ain't so, DNC!" Though it probably wouldn't work that well, because the DNC isn't the kind of group that anyone really idealizes in the first place. 

https://tinyurl.com/ngbcklr

 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

It seems that "Say it ain't so" originally referred to "Shoeless" Joe Jackson, star baseball player who was involved in the 1919 "Black Sox" bribery scandal. According to this source, it went down like this:

Quote:
“Shoeless” Joe Jackson was involved in the “Black Sox” baseball scandal in which eight Chicago White Sox players were accused of fixing the 1919 World Series. Legend has it that as Jackson was leaving the courthouse, a young fan tugged on his sleeve and, in a voice full of emotion, said, “Say it ain't so, Joe.” When Jackson confirmed the accusation, the lad realized that his idol had feet of clay.

Edited to add: I wrote this before clicking through votd's link. Sorry about the redundancy.

voice of the damned

Michael Moriarity wrote:

Sorry about the redundancy.

Nah, it's okay. Some people might not click on the link, and to understand the emotional import of the phrase, it really helps to know the background story.

NorthReport
laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Murray Head's song about it is one of the most moving ones ever. I never realized the story behind it.

Here is a live version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_rMiTxizg
 

Aristotleded24

Michael Moriarity wrote:
At this point, I think the only viable contenders for the Dem nomination are Biden, Sanders and Warren. Harris has dropped back below 10% in the polls, and seems to have lost the confidence of the major Dem elites, who have decided that Warren is their best bet to stop Sanders.

I expect Biden to be eliminated after finishing third or worse in Iowa and New Hampshire. From there on, it'll be Bernie against Elizabeth, and I think either could win. Interestingly, many polls have shown that Sanders and Warren draw their supporters from quite distinct demographic subsets of the party. Warren's supporters are richer, more well-educated, older, and more white than Sanders' supporters, who include many more millennials and visible minorities.

I think Bernie's ground game may be strong enough to win it for him. He has signed up over a million volunteers who are willing to knock on doors and make phone calls. He has plenty of funding and has set up strong organizations, consisting mostly of local activists, in all the early primary states. I expect him to impressively out-perform the polls. Even so, I only make him about 60% likely to win the nomination.

If Sanders wins the nomination, I think he should, and probably will, choose Warren as VP. This would unite the party effectively because of the demographic breakdown I noted above. If Warren wins the nomination, I think she should choose someone who can appeal at least somewhat to Bernie's supporters, perhaps Julian Castro or Bill DeBlasio. However, I think she would be more likely to choose a centrist like Cory Booker or Pete Buttigieg.

I think either Warren or Sanders would have an excellent chance of beating Trump, but Sanders would crush him, winning all the swing states, and even some considered pretty red.

I agree with much of what you said. Warren is especially advantageous for the Establishment wing because she has convinced people that she is more progressive than she actually is. I would prefer Tulsi Gabbard as the VP pick. Tulsi and Bernie balance each other out quite well when it comes to each other's domestic and foreign policy weaknesses. As a veteran Tulsi also understands how war works, and why it needs to stop. It also shows good judgement from the perspective of choosing someone who can immediately take over if something happens to him, which is unfortunately an issue due to his age. I think Warren loses to Trump in the end.

Misfit Misfit's picture

I actually think the Dems will go conservstive. They need to shift right to attract the soft Republican and independent vote. They will get a candidate with Wall Street and private insurance companies and maybe even NRA backing behind the main candidate to afford the election campaign.

The Bernie Samders vote is not going to switch to the Republicans but the Dems need the soft right wing vote to win.

Elizabeth Warren is also old. I think Beto could surprise some. He is younger and has large corporate backing.

voice of the damned

laine lowe wrote:

Murray Head's song about it is one of the most moving ones ever. I never realized the story behind it.

Here is a live version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hc_rMiTxizg
 

Thanks. I'd never heard that song before. My only experience of Murray Head was One Night In Bangkok. A rather different piece of music.

Aristotleded24

Misfit wrote:
I actually think the Dems will go conservstive. They need to shift right to attract the soft Republican and independent vote. They will get a candidate with Wall Street and private insurance companies and maybe even NRA backing behind the main candidate to afford the election campaign. The Bernie Samders vote is not going to switch to the Republicans but the Dems need the soft right wing vote to win. Elizabeth Warren is also old. I think Beto could surprise some. He is younger and has large corporate backing.

That's absolutely ridiculous. Why would right-wing voters vote Democrat when they already have a Rebublican party offering what they want? Why would left-wing voters vote at all if what they want isn't on the ballet. Witness the failure of Senators Joe "I want to help Trump build his wall" Donnelly or Claire "Bernie is a scary socialist." IT's the exact reason the Clinton campaign failed last time. McKaskill. Stacy Abrams did much better in Georgia by exciting her own base.

Us educated people treat politics as happening on a straight line, and all parties have to do is move somewhere along that line and magically they will pick up more votes. People's minds don't work that way. They have complicated reasons for voting. The reason Democrats appear to have to move right has nothing to do with that. It's because the Republicans are adamant in their positions, while the Democrats appear to waver when there is criticism. The former appears courageous, and people respect that. Sanders actually got a Fox News panel to cheer for his Medicare for All plan. I would take my chances with someone like that than someone trying to be all things to all people any day of the week.

Misfit Misfit's picture

It’s like the Liberals and Conservatives have lots of money during elections because they cater to the large corporations and get the large corporate donations. The Democrats do the same.

Hillary Clinton lost because she didn’t get the soft and swing votes that she needed in the rust belt. They need that this time.

Hey, I like Bernie Sanders but he may not have won the last election either if he had won the Democratic primary.

He had strong Democratic support in the red states because there was a strong anti-Hillary Clinton sentiment working against her but that doesn’t necessarily transcend into a major election victory.

 

 

Aristotleded24

Misfit wrote:
It’s like the Liberals and Conservatives have lots of money during elections because they cater to the large corporations and get the large corporate donations. The Democrats do the same.

Hillary Clinton lost because she didn’t get the soft and swing votes that she needed in the rust belt. They need that this time.

Hey, I like Bernie Sanders but he may not have won the last election either if he had won the Democratic primary.

He had strong Democratic support in the red states because there was a strong anti-Hillary Clinton sentiment working against her but that doesn’t necessarily transcend into a major election victory.

Of course there are red states that would not have gone for Sanders in the general election. They would not have gone for any Democrat. That doesn't mean that Sanders couldn't have made a difference in other states. Why did Hillary avoid Michigan and Wisconson on the campaign trail? Just holding Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Ohio would have kept Trump out of the White House. Maybe even throw in a few wild cards like Indiana, and the Democrats still hold.

I've got far more respect for Republicans than centrist Democrats. Yes I vehemently disagree with what the Republicans want to do, but at least they want to do something, I know what they want to do, and they fight hard to do it. The centrists? They have no backbone. They just say what they think will win, and their anit-Trump hysteria is off the charts even though on public policy issues, what they propose is either identical to Trump's public policy agenda or they crack and vote with Trump just because people said mean things about them being too far to the left. Sanders, on the other hand, sounds like a person, not a politician. You might not agree with him, but even Trump voters respect the fact that he is honest about what he believes and has been courageous by consistently advocating the things he believes in regardless of what others may say.

Aristotleded24
NDPP

Paul Street sums the corporate Dems up nicely here I think...

"...The reigning corporate Democrats would rather lose to the right, even to a proto-fascist white nationalist and eco-exterminist right, then lose to the left, even to a mildly progressive social democratic and environmentalist left within their own party. How else explain their insistence on promoting the ridiculous, arch-corporatist, imperialist and dementia-plagued right-wing gaffe machine Joe Biden in the long march to the 2020 Democratic presidential primaries...?"

Notes on Inauthenticity in a Creeping Fascist Nuthouse

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/08/23/notes-on-inauthenticity-in-a-cre...

 

Aristotleded24

NDPP wrote:
Paul Street sums the corporate Dems up nicely here I think...

"...The reigning corporate Democrats would rather lose to the right, even to a proto-fascist white nationalist and eco-exterminist right, then lose to the left, even to a mildly progressive social democratic and environmentalist left within their own party. How else explain their insistence on promoting the ridiculous, arch-corporatist, imperialist and dementia-plagued right-wing gaffe machine Joe Biden in the long march to the 2020 Democratic presidential primaries...?"

Notes on Inauthenticity in a Creeping Fascist Nuthouse

">https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/08/23/notes-on-inauthenticity-in-a-cre...

Exactly. It's also true that the candidates themeslves do not hate each other nearly as much as their supporters hate each other.

NDPP

Of course not. It's a club, a mafia crime family. Like WWF, only the schmucks take it seriously...

https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2018/04/barbara-bush-funeral-four...

"American presidents come and go, the vital interests of America remain." - Bill Clinton - (ex US president and 'Lolita Express' frequent flyer).

Ward

Why is #GoogleAndrewYang  the number 1 Twitter trend?

NorthReport
NDPP

The Democratic Presidential Debate: A Million Miles From American Social Reality

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/09/14/pers-s14.html

"The presidential debate held in Houston Thursday night was a three-hour demonstration of the vast distance between the Democratic Party and the American working class..." Must Read!

ABC News Democratic Debate 2019

https://youtu.be/2UWVO0Trd1c

Streamed live on Sept 12, 2019. The word 'Russia' is conspicuous by its absence - yet another indication that false narrative has completely collapsed.

NDPP

Michael Hudson: Break Up The Democratic Party?

https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/09/13/break-up-the-democratic-party/

"...But here's the trick that the TV debates sweep under the rug: It is not the voters who are empowered to choose the Democratic Party's candidate. That privilege belongs legally to the Democratic National Committee (DNC). Since stacking the political deck in 2016 to serve up [Crooked] Hillary Clinton as nominee, it has put in place rules, that will enable its Donor Class members, superdelegates and other lobbyists for the One Percent to repeat the trickery once again in 2020.

The problem facing the Democratic National Committee today remains the same as in 2016: How to block even a moderately left-wing social democrat by picking a candidate guaranteed to lose to Trump, so as to continue the policies that serve banks, the financial markets and military spending for Cold War 2.0.

Now is the time to start thinking about what do do if and when the DNC presents voters with neoliberal Hillary 2.0, prefering to lose with Biden or his clones than to win with Bernie. I think the only effective response will be to boycott the Democratic Party..."

NDPP

Biden's Brain is Swiss Cheese and It's Creepy That We're Not Talking About It

https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1173411445771358208

"I've typed out transcript of what Biden actually said, verbatim. Try to read through it slowly, resisting the instinct to mentally reframe it into something more coherent..."

If the DNC has its way, Joe Biden could be the answer to 'After Trump, what will USA do for an encore?'

NDPP

CrossTalk: Dem vs Dem

https://youtu.be/x7rUyvG36tQ

"The Democrats want to recapture the White House in a bad way, [but]... they would rather lose to Republicans then let progressives take over the party."

NorthReport

- today's RT's talking points?

NorthReport

Hunter Biden’s Perfectly Legal, Socially Acceptable Corruption

Donald Trump committed an impeachable offense, but prominent Americans also shouldn’t be leveraging their names for payoffs from shady clients abroad.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/09/hunter-bidens-legal-socially-acceptable-corruption/598804/

NorthReport

My hunch/concern is that Warren has a better chance of beating Trump

Useful Idiots: Nathan Robinson on Key Differences Between Sanders and Warren

In the latest episode of ‘Useful Idiots’ podcast, the Current Affairs founder and editor discusses why it’s time to stop underplaying the two progressive candidates’ differences

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/matt-taibbi-podcast-nathan-robinson-891003/

NorthReport

Joe Biden faces the Trump fusillade. Are he and his campaign up to it?

 

Some of Joe Biden’s supporters are voicing growing concern that his campaign is not prepared to weather the dual political rip currents suddenly reshaping the 2020 race — an onslaught of attacks on his family from President Trump and a tightened contest for the Democratic nomination.

Several allies, including top financial backers, are weighing whether to create a super PAC to independently defend Biden and go after the president, who has repeatedly accused the former vice president of corruption and whose campaign last week launched a $10 million ad blitz aimed largely at attacking Biden.

Other supporters caution that a more aggressive approach could cut against Biden’s above-the-fray appeal and warn him against losing sight of Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.), whose steady march in popularity has eroded Biden’s standing and given her narrow leads over him in several recent polls in early-voting states.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/joe-biden-faces-the-trump-fusillade-are-he-and-his-campaign-up-to-it/2019/09/28/3c30dfaa-e164-11e9-8dc8-498eabc129a0_story.html

NorthReport
NorthReport

 

Would Warren Or Sanders Move To The Center Against Trump?​

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/would-warren-or-sanders-move-to-the-center-against-trump/

NDPP

WATCH: 'The LGBT Town Hall Went Great For Biden Huh...'

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status/1182461026010308610

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Here's an edited version of AOC's endorsement of Bernie this afternoon. The force is strong with this one.

josh

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