8.8 Earthquake and Tsunami in Japan

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al-Qa'bong

What's the Japanese term for "The China Syndrome"?

Papal Bull

Also, the evacuation is very interesting. The Japanese are quite safety conscious and the reactor was due for either a license extension (it was about 40 years old) or decomissioning this month. But with the spread from Daiichi 2 (??) of system failures to other facilities I think the situation is becoming much more dynamic and dangerous as multiple problems will have to be tackled by what is a necessarily limited domestic work force required to deal with this. What worries me is that if a 'worst case' scenario occurs (total meltdown of a core and the inability to work in the facility) and what will happen to the first responders until the infrastructure can be set up for robots to do most of the work.

 

Regardless of this fact, an evacuation of roughly 200'000 people following a huge, huge, huge disaster is somewhat suspect even in lieu of an admittedly (so far) minor radiation leak. It is like they're preparing because there is an elevated chance of a larger radiation leak. Given the mixups in messages between the Japanese nuclear agency and the government regarding the status of the reactors...eh, who the shit knows what's actually going on?

Papal Bull

Boom Boom wrote:

I live right beside the Gulf of St. Lawrence - haven't noticed the water moving more than normal tides, thank goodness.

 

Question: could an earthquake open a fissure deep enough to the molten core of earth? could seawater rush in?

 

A: No. Not really. These are really surface events and I always worry about the Deros who live in the Hollow Earth, which logically precludes the existence of some shambypamby theory of a spinning iron 'core'. What's next? Non-Nordic creationist theories or evolution being taken seriously in the classroom? Everyone knows the All-Father Odin granted the Aesir their life and their strength and that we are sustained by the Worldtree Yggdrasil.

 

Now, for a bit of seriousness

 

Montreal and Vancouver to crumble in major quake

 

Quote:
Vancouver and Montreal are in active earthquake zones. And because both are full of buildings that are not up to modern seismic standards, they would sustain heavy damage in a major tremor which is sure to occur some day.

 

Further interest is this EARTHQUAKE ZONES IN EASTERN CANADA and also THIS

 

Note: Darlington and Pickering (both in the top 20 largest nuclear facilities in the world) and the Gentilly facility in Quebec (1 operational, 1 decom reactor)...plus all of the other research and such reactors in Ontario...all in fairly high density areas.

 

Yay alarmism

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Papal Bull wrote:

Question: could an earthquake open a fissure deep enough to the molten core of earth? could seawater rush in?

A: No. Not really. These are really surface events and I always worry about the Deros who live in the Hollow Earth, which logically precludes the existence of some shambypamby theory of a spinning iron 'core'. What's next? Non-Nordic creationist theories or evolution being taken seriously in the classroom? Everyone knows the All-Father Odin granted the Aesir their life and their strength and that we are sustained by the Worldtree Yggdrasil.

Much appreciated, and thanks for answering in terminology I can understand.Laughing

NorthReport
NDPP

Nuclear Meltdown in Japan  -  by Stephen Lendman

http://www.countercurrents.org/lendman130311.htm

"This is a very serious situation. If the cooling system fails, (apparently it has at two or more plants), the super-heated radioactive fuel rods will melt, and if so you could conceivably have an explosion (that in fact occurred). As a result, massive radiation releases may follow, impacting the entire region. 'It could be, literally, an apocalyptic event. The reactor could blow.' If so, Russia, China, Korea and most part of Western Asia will be affected. Many thousands will die, potentially millions under a worst case scenario, including far outside East Asia...These nuclear plants have to be shut."

Emergency Special Report: Japan's Earthquake, Hidden Nuclear Catastrophe  - by Yoichi Shimatsu

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23676

"So what is being silenced on orders from the Tokyo government? Meltdown is underway...Meteorology is becoming ever more interesting, despite the 'what me worry' attitudes of the global-warming skeptics. A freak of nature called El Nino Variable, if it occurs later this spring, could push the Pacific jet stream northward, meaning Western Canada and more US states could find themselves along a winding stream of radiation fallout from Japan..."

NDPP

Emergency At Onagawa Nuclear Plant: Radiation 700 Times Over Normal

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtYq70-71RI&feature=relmfu

"This is a situation where the risk is very, very substantial.."

France 24 - Live blog: Nuclear Crisis Deepens After Second Explosion

http://www.france24.com/en/20110314-live-japan-nuclear-crisis-deepens-ea...

"The US Seventh Fleet says it has moved its ships and aircraft away from the quake stricken Fukushima Dai-Ichi nuclear power plant on Japan's east coast after discovering low level radioactive contamination.."

NDPP

West Coast Danger If Japan Nuclear Reactor Meltdown

http://modernsurvivalblog.com/nuclear/west-coast-usa-danger-if-japan-nuc...

"Given the large quantity of irradiated nuclear fuel in the pool, the radioactive release could be worse than the Chernobyl nuclear catastrophe of 25 years ago,' said Kevin Kamps, a nuclear waste specialist.."

aka Mycroft

Check out Blaise Plant's tweets - he's a Canadian musician living in Sendai, near the epicentre.

http://twitter.com/BlaisePlant

Slumberjack

The Guardian

Quote:
Japanese officials say the nuclear fuel rods appear to be melting inside all three of the most troubled nuclear reactors, according to Associated Press.  Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano said: "Although we cannot directly check it, it's highly likely happening."

Meltdown

Quote:
Japan's government and nuclear industry, with assistance from the U.S. military, is in a desperate race to stave off multiple nuclear reactor meltdowns - as well as potential fires in pools of spent fuel.

Quote:
A 1997 report for the Nuclear Regulatory Commission (NRC) by Brookhaven National Laboratory also found that a severe pool fire could render about 188 square miles uninhabitable, cause as many as 28,000 cancer fatalities, and cost $59 billion in damage. A single spent fuel pond holds more cesium-137 than was deposited by all atmospheric nuclear weapons tests in the Northern Hemisphere combined.

 

 

Slumberjack

There is the very real possibility that three of these reactors are now undergoing various stages of meltdown.  This would likely require the evacuation of the entire mid-section of the country.  Tens of millions of people.

NorthReport

Do they have all the international help they need?

 

 

Quote:
The Japanese nuclear safety agency said the sudden drop in water level at reactor No. 2 went unnoticed for a while because their experts were checking the other reactors.

 

 

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1389e282-4de7-11e0-85e4-00144feab49a.html?ftca...

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture
Slumberjack

Where the potential for multiple and catastrophic nuclear reactor meltdowns and environmental capitalism meet.

Quote:
It seems callous to try and look for investing opportunities in the wake of a disaster as colossal as the earthquake and tsunami in Japan. But....

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

That's disaster capitalism for ya. Good thing they can't cause earthquakes, or else we'd have more of them.

NorthReport

I know there are aftershocks, but hopefully there is not another big quake before they get this under control.

Green Grouch

Live feed from Reuters combining news updates and users' commentary and questions. In the past few hours more nuclear watchers (no way of knowing if some have the industry experience they claim) have been weighing in:

http://live.reuters.com/Event/Japan_earthquake2

I live in Ontario now and have always been amazed at the ho-hum attitude to nuclear power throughout this province. In BC it was and hopefully still is anathema. I suspect that here the question of spent fuel disposal is ignored because the southern half of the province is never on the top ten list of destinations... and perhaps after forty years of nuclear power it's just part of the landscape. While I can't pretend the risks of natural disaster here are anything like that of Japan or the West Coast, I still find it mind blowing that a small anti-wind power lobby using very dubious facts can stall out the province's commitments to renewable energy while billions of dollars and basic questions of health and safety re nuclear power are not even discussed.

It's a sucker's bet that Ontario Power Generation will go on the PR offensive any time now....

janfromthebruce

Well the scaremongers are out in force. Sorry about our Candu reactors are not built on fault lines in Ontario, and our reactors are not the same as those built in Japan, Russia or the USA.

 

As for the wind lobby, well personally supporting industrial wind turbines that act as fronts for oil/gas international corporations for carbon credits is quite lame don't you think? And when the wind doesn't blow why they are powered by natural gas, so how green is that?

 

Sorry but I don't have any problems with nuclear in Ontario but I do have problems with industrial wind turbines that are dividing communities, creating a front for the oil/gas industry, loss 20% of their energy as it moves down the line from the rural areas to the cities where the energy is needed. That's just not efficient or very progressive in one swoop.

 

And I'm a long term NDP member so don't suggest that I'm not progressive.

janfromthebruce

Forgot to mention, I live very close to Bruce Power and I don't glow green and nor did any of my children.

Pogo Pogo's picture

janfromthebruce wrote:

Well the scaremongers are out in force. Sorry about our Candu reactors are not built on fault lines in Ontario, and our reactors are not the same as those built in Japan, Russia or the USA.

I think the big catastrophe in Canada is with Dam failure.  Especially in the multiple dam rivers where the dominoes add up to an extreme volume of water.

Green Grouch

Defensive much, Janfromthebruce? I'm not interested in derailing a thread that's looking at 10,000 people dead, so if you want to start a thread on the benefits of nuclear, go for it. In the meantime, I never said you're a glowing green regressive, etc. I did say that I find people in this province generally do debate wind power and don't debate nuclear. And I stand by that.

NorthReport

It sure sems hard to get clear information about what is really happening at the nuclear plant - it must be terrifying for the Japanese people.

Third explosion - this time at No 2 reactor

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/japan/8382139/Japan-crisi...

Jingles

Never believe anything until it's been officially denied.

NorthReport

Right.

 

-------------------------

 

 

Japan faces catastrophic radiation leak, warns people to stay indoors

 

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/japan-faces-catastrophic-radiation-l...

Doug
NorthReport

'The French government were very wise to tell their citizens to leave the area, but there are 42 million other people living there.'

 

 

 

http://news.google.ca/news?pz=1&hl=en&ned=ca

West Coast Greeny

Listening to NHK right now.

Fire at the #1 nuclear reactor, and radiation levels around the #3 reactor have now reached 0.4 Sv, enough to be considered dangerous to human health. Outside the reactor in the evacuation zone, radiation levels are in the microSv range - higher than normal, but not yet dangerous, levels. Something akin to a CT scan, I heard.

0.1 Sv - Temporary infertility

0.5 Sv - White blood cell count drops

1 Sv - Nausea sets in

2-3 Sv - Loss of hair

3 Sv - LD 50 - 50% of those exposed to this level of radiation for one hour can be expected to die.

Experts are now saying this crisis is worse than 3 mile Island, but not a Chernobyl like event. 

And just as I say that, half the nuclear rods at the power plant are currently exposed. #Ohfuck

NorthReport

 

Radiation Exposure Could Curtail Workers' Efforts

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/15/science/15workers.html?partner=rss&emc...

Doug

Death does tend to curtail one's efforts.

NDPP

The Idiocy and Hubris of Engineers: Will GE Get Whacked...?

http://www.thiscantbehappening.net/node/509

"GE, the company that boasts that it 'brings good things to life', was the designer of the nuclear plants that are blowing up like hot popcorn kernels at the Fukishima Dai-ichi generating plant...In fact, the design of these facilities - a design which, it should be noted, was also used in 23 nuclear plants operating in the US in Alabama, Georgia, illinois, Iowa, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Nebraska, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Pennsylvania, and Vermont -- appear to have included serious flaws, from a safety perspective.

GE may end up having to change its motto to 'GE brings death to things'..."

NDPP

RT: Fourth Blast Hits Japan Nuclear Plant - Media (and vid)

http://rt.com/news/officials-explosion-fukoshima-claims/

"A fourth explosion has rocked the Fukushima nuclear plant on Tuesday at Unit 4 of the facility, the Japanese Kyodo news agency reports. The agency also reported high levels of radiation at Unit 3, which was hit by a blast on Monday. 'The information coming from Japan concerning the situation of its earthquake-damaged nuclear stations, is extremely insufficient and irregular,' claims the Russia Roseatom nuclear corporation group, which is monitoring the situation...

Philip White of the Citizen;s Nuclear Information Center told RT that 'you cannot rule out at this stage a full-scale worst case scenario, and of course there are other nuclear plants in danger as well..."

Japan Blast Spreads Radiation into Air

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/170010.html

"The IAEA says fire at a Japanese reactor fuel storage pool has released radioactivity into the atmosphere. Local media report that Iodine and Cesium have been detected in the capital Tokyo and nearby areas. Officials say the radiation levels in Saitama near Tokyo have risen to 40 times higher than normal levels.."

NDPP

'Explosion Heard At Japan Nuclear Plant'

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/169974.html

"The Japanese government says an explosion has been heard at another reactor of an earthquake damaged nuclear power plant, issuing evacuation orders to local residents. According to Japan's Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency the explosion was heard at the Number 2 reactor of Fukishima Number 1 nuclear power plant at 6:10 AM, local time on Tuesday...

'The level seems very high and there is still a very high risk of more radiation coming out,' Kan added."

Tokyo Electric to Build US Nuclear Plants: The No BS Info...   - by Greg Palast

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23710

"The carcinogenic isotopes that are released at Fukushima are already floating to Seattle with effects we simply cannot measure. Heaven help us."

 

 

NDPP

Radiation Blowing Towards the West Coast of North America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY9zNNSaZis&feature=player_embedded#at=60

We Are Change Vancouver - information

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I'd like to see Canadians open their homes to displaced Japanese (and Haitians), and the Canadian government grant access to Canadian medicare - for as long as necessary to deal with this crisis, free.

Slumberjack

janfromthebruce wrote:
 And I'm a long term NDP member...

I could have guessed.

janfromthebruce

I agree Pogo

 

Pogo wrote:

janfromthebruce wrote:

Well the scaremongers are out in force. Sorry about our Candu reactors are not built on fault lines in Ontario, and our reactors are not the same as those built in Japan, Russia or the USA.

I think the big catastrophe in Canada is with Dam failure.  Especially in the multiple dam rivers where the dominoes add up to an extreme volume of water.

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

janfromthebruce

I was responding to your opinion where you brought in Ontario's nuclear program and in which it appeared you were derailing the thread. You find it mind blowing - dubious facts - really - so you support corporate oil/gas backed turbineswhich are green wash? ok!

And basic health and safety are always discussed - do you have proof they aren't or is that just your opinion? Anyway,  I am not interested in derailing but when someone appears to put out "disinformation based on opinion and not fact, and then tries to suggest that I am defensive, well take a hike, Green Grouch

 

"I live in Ontario now and have always been amazed at the ho-hum attitude to nuclear power throughout this province. In BC it was and hopefully still is anathema. I suspect that here the question of spent fuel disposal is ignored because the southern half of the province is never on the top ten list of destinations... and perhaps after forty years of nuclear power it's just part of the landscape. While I can't pretend the risks of natural disaster here are anything like that of Japan or the West Coast, I still find it mind blowing that a small anti-wind power lobby using very dubious facts can stall out the province's commitments to renewable energy while billions of dollars and basic questions of health and safety re nuclear power are not even discussed.

It's a sucker's bet that Ontario Power Generation will go on the PR offensive any time now...."

 

Green Grouch wrote:

Defensive much, Janfromthebruce? I'm not interested in derailing a thread that's looking at 10,000 people dead, so if you want to start a thread on the benefits of nuclear, go for it. In the meantime, I never said you're a glowing green regressive, etc. I did say that I find people in this province generally do debate wind power and don't debate nuclear. And I stand by that.

______________________________________________________________________________________ Our kids live together and play together in their communities, let's have them learn together too!

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Meanwhile, here's Kinsella (excerpt):

 

"Over on Rabble -- the website where NDP policy gestates -- ominous mutterings can be found suggesting a Chernobyl-style collapse could happen here, too, with a "radioactive cloud" settling on citizens."

 

(there's more, but you get the idea)

NDPP

The Nuclear Danger: Nuclear War and Nuclear Power: Conference Montreal, March 18

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=23477

"a conference on nuclear war, nuclear power plants and the unfolding catastrophe in Japan with Dr. Helen Caldicott, Friday, March 18, Montreal.."

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://yourheartsontheleft.blogspot.com/2011/03/nuclear-meltdown-is-not-... meltdown is not an alternative to global warming[/url]

Slumberjack

Kinsella wrote:
"Over on Rabble -- the website where NDP policy gestates --

As grotesque as the sausage machine renderings are in the various NDP threads that continue to flourish here, for the most part at least, none of that can be unfavourably compared with Warren Kinsella's offerings.  The larger humour of course would be the goonish Sun readership crawling out from under the rocks for a visit.  Well, not so much actually.

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Quote:
The explosion Tuesday at Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant has elevated the situation there to a "serious accident" on a level just below Chernobyl, a French nuclear official said, referring to an international scale that rates the severity of such incidents.

The International Nuclear and Radiological Event Scale -- or INES -- goes from Level 1, which indicates very little danger to the general population, to Level 7, a "major accident" in which there's been a large release of radioactive material and there will be widespread health and environmental effects.

"It's clear we are at Level 6, that's to say we're at a level in between what happened at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl," Andre-Claude Lacoste, president of France's nuclear safety authority, told reporters Tuesday.

[url=http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/03/15/japan.nuclear/#]CNN[/url]

Slumberjack

For something nearing the scale of a Chernobyl incident, CNN appears to be doing it's best to bury the worst scenario news articles from the main page as the incidents occur, while still being able to claim that they're covering it.

Catchfire Catchfire's picture

I wish NDP policy "gestated" here.

NDPP

Worse Than a Meltdown  - by Mike Whitney

http://www.counterpunch.org/whitney03152011.html

"The situation in Japan is dire. It's grave and it doesn't suite anyone's purposes to downplay it..."

 

When Greed Goes Radioactive  - by Ron Jacobs

http://www.counterpunch.org/jacobs03152011.html

"With the event at that plant, [Fukushima] the world was once again graphically reminded to the danger of nuclear power. The question is, can we the citizens of the planet, successfully mobilize against a corporate effort to impose this expensive, inefficient, dangerous and ultimately deadly form of power generation..?"

 

Brian White

I will just note that Chernobyl affected Finland and Ireland. (I was there at the time)  Heavy rain followed and took the radioactive dust down and concentrated it is some areas. It ended raindeer farming for some of the soumi people and a few areas of ireland had a 3 or 4 year ban on sheep farming.

Ireland would not have expected to get hit because normally the wind blows the other way and it is a hell of a long way away from Chernobyl. 

So we should not be too complacent here in BC. It might well come this direction and it might well arrive in a downpour.

I feel very sad for the Japaneese people that all this is happening to them.

My cousin lives there with his Japaneese wife.  (Well south of the most affected area but still they got powerful tremmors)

NDPP

Democracy Now: Japan Facing Biggest Catastrophe Since Dawn of Nuclear Age (and vid)

http://zcommunications.org/japan-facing-biggest-catastrophe-since-dawn-o...

"There are 23 reactors in the US that are identical or close to identical to the first Fukishima ractor. Now that exposure of fuel is about as bad as it gets. It means that those fuel rods, superheated fuel rods, could melt if they are exposed to water, which they're trying to pour in there. It could create radioactive steam, conceivably blow off the containment and result in another Chernobyl and a horrific, horrendous release of radiation that could, and in fact would, come to the US [and Canada] within a week or so, as the Chernobyl radiation...

This is about as bad as it gets. And we are not 100 percent sure we're  getting fully accurate information. Radiation releases are ongoing and probably will only get worse.."

NDPP

'This Could Easily Become Chernobyl on Steroids - Get the Children Away from The Reactors': Democracy Now (and vid)

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/3/15/get_the_children_away_from_the

"Japanese anti-nuclear activist Aileen Mioko Smith and nuclear engineer Arnie Gundersen question whether Japanese officials are doing enough to protect civilians from radiation. This could easily become 'Chernobyl on Steroids'. It is likely that volatile Plutonium is being released right now. Within about 5-10 days the plume will hit [Canada and] US.."

Fidel

[url=http://www.680news.com/news/national/article/197886--harper-says-not-nec... Harper: I can do nothing. We are impotent in Ottawa long time.[/url] Says Canadians safe from nuclear mess in that real G8 country in the Pacific. Thank goodness for that, says head of our Northern Puerto Rico. It's a wonder Steve's entourage of overpaid do nothing cultists aren't over there now trying to sell them some nuclear reactors.

al-Qa'bong

Ze French must know something their Areva/Cogema people haven't told Stevie-boy.

Quote:

La France se prépare à "l'arrivée éventuelle" d'un nuage radioactif à Saint-Pierre et Miquelon avec des mesures de prévention "compte tenu des rejets massifs attendus", a affirmé mardi 15 mars la ministre de l'Ecologie Nathalie Kosciusko-Morizet.

"Aujourd'hui il n'y a pas de risque majeur. Ceci dépend d'une part de l'ampleur des rejets au Japon, et d'autre part des déplacements atmosphériques", a-t-elle expliqué à l'Assemblée nationale. "Les courants atmosphériques passent relativement peu facilement d'un hémisphère à l'autre et si notre territoire était exposé ce serait plus probablement Saint-Pierre et Miquelon que nos territoires du Pacifique", a-t-elle poursuivi.

le Nouvel Obs

 

Wait a minute; what lies between Japan and St. Pierre et Miquelon?

 

Sarko doesn't appear too worried about France itself, though.

 

Quote:

"La France est le pays qui a le secteur nucléaire le plus sécurisé et c'est d'ailleurs pour cela qu'on a perdu des appels d'offres aux Emirats. On était plus cher parce qu'on apportait plus de sécurité", a expliqué le chef de l'Etat cité par deux participants.
Le président Sarkozy faisait allusion à l'échec français dans un appel d'offres fin 2009 aux Emirats Arabes unis, pour un contrat de 20,4 milliards de dollars portant sur la fourniture de réacteurs EPR.
"Il a ensuite disserté sur l'EPR (centrale nucléaire nouvelle génération) pour dire que 'ça résisterait à tous les missiles et que même si un (Boeing) 747 tombait sur le chapeau d'une centrale nouvelle génération, le réacteur résisterait grâce à un système de protection à double coque'", a précisé un responsable UMP. "Il faut donc raison garder", a dit le chef de l'Etat.

 

Sarkozy : Il n'est "pas question de sortir du nucléaire"

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