Afghan puppets & their masters are going down 2

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NDPP

IEA Resistance Statement: 'The Negotiation Ploy Boomerangs On the Enemy'

http://www.shahamat.info/english/

"With the passage of time it becomes more and more exposed that the enemy is only trying to create rifts among the ranks of Mujihideen through their publishing false reports of peace talks with the senior officers of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan...

A western writer writes: 'But wait. If we did want to weaken Taliban resolve - and surely we do - and if individual Taliban leaders aren't really sure what the others are doing, then even a fake Taliban talker might do the trick...'"

NDPP

Canadian Forces in New Kandahar Offensive

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/05/afghanistan-canadian-offensive....

"The Canadian Forces in Afghanistan are part of a new battle offensive in a tactically crucial region in Kandahar Province. This is likely the last major offensive by Task Force Kandahar..."

Offensive indeed...and a major war crime as well. They're calling it Op Baawar which is appropriate given the sheep like CF that fight for them..

Fidel

[url=http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/02/wikileaks-ex-taliban-admit-m... Holdout mullah Omar has no desire to topple US-backed pro mujahideen government[/url] Previously the most pro-USA, pro-UNOCAL of the Taliban mullahs only wants a more right wing fundamentalist regime for Pipelineistan

Frmrsldr

I wonder what will happen?

This new offensive could result in Canadian troop casualties.

Like all decisions by Canadian governments over Afghanistan, this is one more in a plethora of bad decisions.

Why have one last kick at the can by engaging in combat and exposing Canadian troops to death and injury when in 2011 their role will be rebranded and they will be redeployed to Kabul where, so we are told by the government, they will be "safer"?

Add to this foolishness the folley that the troops currently in Afghanistan are the Quebec based Royal 22nd ("Vandooze") Regiment, with Quebec and Francophone Canadians being the most antiwar in all of Canada.

I'm really beginning to believe that Canada's military engagement/effort in Afghanistan could turn sour very fast, with its consequent effects on the current Reepicheep government.

Fidel

According to the recent Wikileaks, we are supposed to believe that it is Pakistan that is double dealing with the Taliban. And that the source of corruption is Karzai's government.

Rrrreally?

Frmrsldr

It's a bit long but if you have the time, here's an article that accurately sums up the truth on what's going on in Afghanistan:

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/12/10/obama-pentagon-lies-to-set-th...

 

Fidel

From Former Soldier's link:

Marc W. Herold for RAWA wrote:
All the while Al Qaeda laughs as 9/11 was primarily about weakening the U.S economy, that is, hastening America’s imperial overstretch.(134) Recall Ernesto Che Guevara who close to a half century ago pushed for “One, Two, Three, Many Vietnams.”(135) Abu Mus’ab wrote,

“No reasonable person can deny the United States’ military, economic and technological power… [However, both the U.S.’s] technological research and its military forces depend on the economy. [Consequently], the destruction of its economy will cause the U.S. to disintegrate, collapse, and disappear, just like the Soviet Union.”

A ten year Afghan quagmire serves that end.

The American war in Afghanistan will end after NATO country militaries withdraw. This process began with the Dutch in 2010, the Canadians in 2011 and will accelerate in 2011. No amount of Croatian, Mongolian, Georgian and other such troops can replace the old NATO contingents.

In the end bodies tell the story, America’s lost war in Afghanistan will cease,cut by the scissors of Afghan bodies and mounting U.S. military bodies.

Sounds good to me. I like the idea that a vicious empire will be forced to retreat from its foreign military occupations. Afghans by far are taking the worst of it. Their world is a living hell.

On the flip side, I don't think 9/11 was the source cause of US economic troubles. I think the banking collapse was engineered. Bankers knew beforehand as did the S&L crooks of the 1980s that they were considered too big to fail. They knew that they would be rewarded by policies of socialism for private banks. Fascists have a well established history for deliberately sabotaging the economy. It's what they do in addition to attacking trade unions as a first order of business.

And, will Americans care if perhaps the Taliban end up in Karzai's government after a new deal is struck between them and the Taliban's former backers in Washington? Marc Herold doesn't account for that happening.The Taliban are not creations of the USSR or Filippinos, Vietnamese, or any other country. The Taliban represent just one-fifth of the 1800 resistance groups fighting against the occupation. And personally, I'm not crazy with how friendly they've been with their brutal colonizers in the recent past. I think they could be convinced to swing a deal with their former paymasters. All of the Taliban and pro mujahideen reps in Karzai's government are right wing extremists afterall. They have the most in common with their former employers in Washington and their current controllers in Islamabad. I think the Taliban are still considered assets for the CIA and for their elitist friends in Pakistan continually seeking "strategic depth" in Afghanistan.

margot66

Interesting observation just in from the Canadian Peace Alliance:

 

Richard Holbrooke, the top U.S. Envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, died after emergency heart surgery at the age of 69. His last words, reported by family members and his surgeon before he underwent surgery were: "You have to stop this war in Afghanistan".

These dying words were reported in his obituary in the Washington Post and on major US networks and international news agencies. So why did big Canadian media outlets not event make mention of this in their reports on his death?

-The CBC National News, with Peter Mansbridge, did not refer to this at all. Nor did the CBC.ca online report.

-The Globe and Mail story reports on the Canadian Ambassador to Afghanistan's thoughts on how Holbrooke's death might affect the "peace process," and yet the story fails to mention the dying words.

 

I heard his death announced on several CBC hourly radio news reports. Definitely no mention of Holbrooke's now much better known last words. To be a fair, I haven't tuned in today, and someone may by now have insisted on adding that he said "You have to sto this war in Afghanistan." My own experience with insisting the CBC mention or report on something (like the PHRUSA report on Shebergan prison in Jan 02) can be utterly futile. While five different ways to spell Shebergan may have been a factor, there is only one way to spell what Holbrooke said.

 

Details at http://www.acp-cpa.ca/en/endit2011.htm

margot66

sto=stop, of course, my typo.

Unionist

What are those words supposed to mean, anyway? "We've got to crush the damn upstart insurgents, like, yesterday!"?

I've never heard of a warmonger whose professed aim was not to stop war. Now had he said: "We need to get all the foreigners out of Afghanistan now!", I might have been somewhat more taken aback.

Even Stephen Harper has been declaring, for a couple of years, that Canada has to stop its war in Afghanistan - and in 2011, he is going to do it.

I don't think Holbrooke is the kind of world statesperson whose dying syllables are worthy of much interpretation. I will not mourn his passing.

 

Fidel

I think that if there is a pullout, then the US and-or Pakistan will try to reinstall the Taliban through covert aid and shipments of weapons. It's what they did before and will probably do again in order to prevent an outbreak of democracy in Afghanistan. In the mean time the death and destruction is meaningless. The US Military and their friends in Pakistan have hidden agendas in Afghanistan. This war could last well into the next Republican government in Warshington. They love expensive wars where there can be no winners but warfiteers and Pentagon capitalists alike.

Frmrsldr

I don't think Herr Harper has ever said the word "war" in public when referring to Afghanistan.

On the second last day of the 2008 election, when he was in Vancouver, Harper referred to "... our invasion of Afghanistan..." I think he meant to say "Our mission in Afghanistan." A Freudian slip I attribute to exhaustion.

On the March 1, 2009 CNN interview Herr Harper said, "My own judgement ... quite frankly is we are not going to ever defeat the insurgency."

I could be wrong, and if so, please do prove me wrong.

Perhaps there is something in the House (of Commons) records or in the mainstream media between October 2001 - January 2006 where he praises Canada's involvement in or criticizes the Canadian governments' prosecution of the Afghan war.

NDPP

 a strange thing to say but perhaps he sensed his end was nigh death and damnation too. And heard already the cracklings of the everlasting bonfire - his own and his  evil empire's.

I guess there's nothing left but to try to transform NATO from within...

margot66

Good point, Unionist, but my intent was not to canonize the man.  Rather, it's more like a death-bed confession, and as such fun to add after mush from the likes of Lawrence Cannon, like "a trusted friend of Canada" and "an inspiration to all of us."

"We valued his views and counsel on the many issues that brought Canada and United States together to promote our common values in a world fraught with conflict and fragility."

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/14/holbrooke-praise014.html#socialcomments#ixzz189jL1nuS

So much fun to add after all the unfair-trade-roses have been thrown, the CBC didn't wouldn't couldn't.

And, Unionist, you were far from the only person who didn't think he meant what it sounded like. NBC reported State Department spokesperson PJ Crowley did a glorious dance about what Holbrooke really meant.  At http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/12/14/5649816-holbrookes-last-words

Unionist

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/15/afghanistan-canada-corruption.h..."Who is doing the corruption? You are doing the corruption!": Kandahar mayor to Canadian ambassador[/url]

Quote:

The mayor of Kandahar is complaining that Ottawa's contracting practices are contributing to the culture of misconduct in Afghanistan and expressed similar concerns about the United States and Britain. [...]

[Mayor Hamidi]

He produced an inspection report for Ottawa's $1.9-million project to install solar street lights; up to 40 per cent of the units were not functioning or had been poorly installed, the report indicated.

In one case, shoddy work became a public safety hazard when holes for the light standards were drilled in advance and left unattended overnight last fall, he added.

"They start making holes in the sidewalk, and we said, 'Please don't make the holes because of the security, because they put bomb[s] in them,"' he said.

Sure enough, insurgents planted an explosive, which damaged several businesses and the home of a municipal official.

They're comin' DOWN!!! dooby do down down, come-a come-a down dooby do down down, winning wars is hard tooo do!

NDPP

Richard Holbrooke: From Yugoslavia to the War in Afghanistan

http://davidswanson.org/content/richard-holbrookes-deathbed-conversion

"Shortly before the bombing of Yugoslavia begin in March 1999, Richard Holbrooke delivered the final ultimatum to Milosevic - that if Yugoslavia didn't agree to the Rambouillet text, NATO would begin bombing. The Rambouillet text called for a defacto occupation of Yugoslavia..

Kosovo Prime Minister like Mafia Boss

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/dec/14/kosovo-prime-minister-llike-...

the point being just like Kosovo, NATO[and Canada] has imposed a mafia-like Karzai government on Afghanistan - whether they like it or not. By all accounts they don't.

Afghan Ultraviolence: Petraeus Triples Air War

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/12/afghan-ultra-violence-petraeus-t...

"NATO figher jets and attack planes launched their bombs and missiles on 850 separate missions this November. That's three-and-a-half times the number of attack sorties they flew in November 2009. It's another sign of the bloody turn the Afghan conflict has taken since Petraeus took over. He has unleashed special operations forces, who have killed or captured thousands of militants.

And then there's the metastasizing air war. In the last three months, NATO aircraft have fired their weapons on 2, 5550 sorties.."

Fidel

[url=http://blogs.reuters.com/pakistan/2010/12/11/academics-experts-appeal-to..., experts appeal to Obama to back Taliban talks[/url]

Hawks Ahmed Rashid and US think tankers advise power sharing with America's former right wing proxies, the Taliban.

[url=http://www.milligazette.com/news/175-americans-are-talking-to-the-taliba... ARE talking with the Taliban![/url]

Quote:
Some of the talks are believed to have been held in Kabul itself. NATO troops have reportedly ensured proper logistics to transport these Taliban leaders safely from the Pakistan border to Kabul.
Taliban precious cargo! Handle with care!

Who knew that the Taliban represent the interests of all 1800 insurgent groups and millions of Afghans? It doesn't matter, because our right wing extremists are talking with those right wing extremists about a power sharing arrangements in the event that they can no longer continue the longest and most meaningless war in recent colder war history.

Unionist

Fidel - honestly - do you have any idea how many times you have reported, over recent years, that the invaders are talking to the Taliban?

And now you're quoting yet another shady source which claims that talks have just now "begun" - and they cite no source whatsoever?

Who's the Taliban spokesperson - Rich Little?

The Taliban have publicly stated they will not talk to Karzai until the foreign helpers are gone. You believe Karzai (because his government is allegedly the source of this latest lie). I frankly believe the Taliban on this one.

Let me know when you hear the next rumour.

 

NDPP

Canada Wastes Cash in Afghanistan: Kandahar Mayor

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2010/12/15/afghanistan-canada-corruption.html

"The mayor of Kandahar is complaining that Ottawa's contracting practices are contributing to the culture of misconduct in Afghanistan. 'Who is doing the corruption? You are doing the corruption.'"

Red Cross Says Afghan Conditions Worst in 30 Years

http://uk.reuters.com/article/idUKTRE6BE2K020101215

"Violence in Afghanistan is at its worst since the Taliban were overthrown more than nine years ago...The ICRC has also reported a spike this year in the number of patients with war wounds admitted at the main hospital it supports in southern Kandahar.."

a canucklehead killing zone

US Spy Agencies Paint Grim Picture of Afghan War

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2010/dec2010/afgh-d16.shtml

"The classified intelligence reports contend that large swaths of Afghanistan are still at risk of falling to the Taliban.."

margot66

Taliban Leader in Secret Talks Was an Impostor

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/23/world/asia/23kabul.html?_r=1&hp

 

If the NYT is still to be believed in any way, this is maybe more a Peter Sellers movie than the Yes Men, but it sure sprays.

 

 

"It's not him," said a Western diplomat in Kabul intimately involved in the discussions. "And we gave him a lot of money."

American officials confirmed Monday that they had given up hope that the Afghan was Mr. Mansour, or even a member of the Taliban leadership.

NATO and Afghan officials said they held three meetings with the man, who traveled from in Pakistan, where Taliban leaders have taken refuge.

The fake Taliban leader even met with President Hamid Karzai, having been flown to Kabul on a NATO aircraft and ushered into the presidential palace, officials said.

Fidel

[url=It">http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/30/no-secret-pakistan-t...'s no secret what Pakistan's been doing with the Taliban[/url] July

Tariq Ali wrote:
A source close to the Pakistani military told me last year in Islamabad that US intelligence agents were present at recent talks between the ISI and the insurgents. No reason for anybody to be surprised. The cause, too, is clear. The war cannot be won.

It's hardly a secret that Pakistan never totally abandoned the Taliban after 9/11. How could they? It was Islamabad that had organised the Taliban's retreat from Kabul so that the US and its allies could take the country without a fight. The Pakistani generals advised their Afghan friends to bide their time....

Cold war allies CIA and ISI still arm in arm in the anticommunist jihad. Today it's counter-democracy.

[url=U.S">http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2010/06/22/u-s-military-funding-the-.... Military Funding the Taliban[/url]

[url=http://www.thenews.com.pk/TodaysPrintDetail.aspx?ID=2635&Cat=13]US funding Taliban insurgency in Afghanistan![/url] Dec 13 McChrystal admits that the Taliban are paid to allow NATO supplies safe passage to keep the phony-baloney war going and everyone gets paid on time! It's a racket! Phony war Just a tiff between two groups of right wing extremists havingminor differences of opinion for now...while the money flows and bodies pile up. They don't care as long US and other taxpaying suckers keep the money and plastic bags flowing, and as long as ordinary Afghan people don't takeover the government without cutting the Taliban/ISI&CIA in for a share of power in Kabul.

[url=http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2010/05/28/afghans-believe-us-is-funding... believe US is funding Taliban[/url] Talking with and funding the Taliban! My-my, who is this special right wing faction of extremists, and what do they want besides US dollars and bosom friendship with Washington and Islamabad?

So we know that our own right wing extremists in Canada and the USA are funding 1/5th of the Afghan resistance in the rightwing extremist group known as the Taliban. What about the other 80 percent of the legitimate resistance? Or will they all be on the outside looking in when the Taliban are officially rubbing elbows with those other freedom fighters in Kabul, the very pro mujahideen government led by the current head US stooge, Hamid Karzai?

Malalai Joya on Nov.11 wrote:
"They will not leave Afghanistan anytime soon. We wish [them] to leave Afghanistan, even now is better than tomorrow, because democracy never comes by war, by cluster bombs, by occupation, by bombings, especially with the support of the sworn enemy of these values. These nine years they shed the blood of their own soldiers, but now they invite these terrorist Taliban under the name of peace to bring them also in power, which makes no sense."

It makes no sense to us. Only the US and the US-backed military dictatorship in Pakistan and their Taliban friends know why it makes sense to all be in bed together. It's just like old times!

Fidel

Unionist wrote:
I frankly believe the Taliban on this one.

And I tend to believe RAWA reports and the word of ordinary people over the lies of a group of right wing extremists and "Afghan Arabs", "former" proxies of Washington. The Taliban mullahs know their way around Houston and Washington far better than any of us.

They've been chatting with the Taliban for years. They don't speak to the political opposition in Kabul. They don't talk to any of the other insurgent leaders representing the other 80 percent of the resistance. No Afghan women are invited to these clandestine talks.

The CIA, MI6, and Saudi "mediators" up until recently have talked only to the Taliban. Everyone knows it, from Tariq Ali and Ahmed Rashid, right wing think tanks in the US, and the women of RAWA know it.

Unionist wrote:
Let me know when you hear the next rumour.

You can verify it with Malalai Joya and the women of RAWA. They are Afghans.

Have you ever been to Afghanistan, Unionist? Florida? Walt Disney World?

There is no Walt Disney World in Afghanistan just poverty and misery after 30 years' worth of US meddling in that country.

You've been saying the Taliban were on the verge of victory for the last six years, and you've been wrong for six consecutive years in a row. Are you going to make it seven? What do you think all of this warmongering will achieve for Afghans on the other side of the world besides nothing?  It's as if you're trying to tell us that two pigs rolling around in the mud are not having the time of their lives and want to take hot showers. Have you ever heard anything so ridiculous?

NDPP

Death of A Courtier, And Other Vile Follies

http://www.chris-floyd.com/articles/1-latest-news/2063-death-of-a-courti...

"Speaking of other shams, Patrick Cockburn follows billions of dollars down the war profiteering hole in Afghanistan where millions face 'food insecurity' this winter -- a full nine years after their 'liberation'.

Unionist

margot66 wrote:

Taliban Leader in Secret Talks Was an Impostor

Cool

That's why I asked Fidel whether the next "Taliban" negotiator was [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sSn3E_Vvc]Rich Little[/url].

 

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Cool

That's why I asked Fidel whether the next "Taliban" negotiator was [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sSn3E_Vvc]Rich Little[/url].

They've been holding illegitimate talks for years.

Two right wing factions, the US Military and Taliban,  are into their 10th year of phony war in addition to the other 80 percent of anti-US insurgents fighting occupation.

You've predicted Taliban victory for the last five or six years in a row. And so far your streak for being completely wrong every year is unscathed. Death and destruction reign merrily in case you haven't noticed.

What difference does it make if the two factions of right wing extremists - the US-led occupation and their "former" proxies in Kabul, the Taliban - were to lay down their weapons today or ten years from now? How much more warmongering from Canadian cheerleaders should Afghans have to endure?  

Unionist

Fidel wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Cool

That's why I asked Fidel whether the next "Taliban" negotiator was [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sSn3E_Vvc]Rich Little[/url].

They've been holding illegitimate talks for years.

Makes it all that much stranger that no one has yet found a single shred of evidence - except for the impostor, of course. Got a date of a meeting? Place? Name of participants? Waiting for Wikileaks to reveal something?

 

Quote:

You've predicted Taliban victory for the last five or six years in a row.

No, I've predicted that the Afghan people and their insurgency will destroy this latest round of lame-ass invaders, as they did the British and Soviets before them. And they will. In fact, they are.

Quote:
Death and destruction reign merrily in case you haven't noticed.

I thought it was a "phony war"? When the U.S., Canada, and NATO are defeated, the death and destruction will return to the pre-October 2001 levels. Which is what Afghans have been asking for any time anyone asks them the question.

Quote:
How much more warmongering from Canadian cheerleaders should Afghans have to endure?  

 

Good question. Afghans should be spared the kindly successive helping hands of Jean Chrétien, Paul Martin, Stephen Harper, Michael Ignatieff... oh, and Jack Layton, who some Canadians think should be invited over to head up "peace" talks, because the Afghan people are apparently incapable of looking after their own affairs.

 

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Fidel wrote:

Unionist wrote:

Cool

That's why I asked Fidel whether the next "Taliban" negotiator was [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78sSn3E_Vvc]Rich Little[/url].

They've been holding illegitimate talks for years.

Makes it all that much stranger that no one has yet found a single shred of evidence - except for the impostor, of course. Got a date of a meeting? Place? Name of participants? Waiting for Wikileaks to reveal something?

We know, it's really Afghans themselves,  and lefties like Tariq Ali and righties like Ahmed Rashid who don't understand what's been happening in Central Asia throughout this 30 years war. They should defer to you when it comes to cold war and now colder war, because, and afterall, what would they know? They've only lived in that same region of the world for many years. Millions who've lived it are suspicious of the long-time US-ISI-Taliban connection. But Unionist tells us that Afghans just don't know. They are rumor mongering in their own country, and that we should accept the word of right wing extremists on both sides of this phony war. Only right wing extremists in the CIA, MI6, their Saudi royal friends, and the USA's long time proxies, the Taliban, have any integrity.

Unionist wrote:
Fidel wrote:

You've predicted Taliban victory for the last five or six years in a row.

No, I've predicted that the Afghan people and their insurgency will destroy this latest round of lame-ass invaders, as they did the British and Soviets before them. And they will. In fact, they are.

Bad history. It was the criminal mujahideen with the aid of US taxpayers, a US-backed military dictatorship under General Zia, and mercenaries from 40 countries who waged holy old anticommunist jihad against the Sovietskys and PDPA government in Afghanistan. If we can imagine the Russian Tsar and British King aiding US Confederates and right wing militias during a US civil war, then we might have a comparable situation in history. But youre imagining things when you imply that the cold war introduced democracy and freedom to Afghanistan  by 1989. What the USA's proxies did was tear the country apart from stern to stem after 1992 while NATO countries turned their backs on the atrocities committed by their mujahideen and drug trafficking criminal friends.

You say the US Military is on the verge of cutting and running, just like Vietnam. But we should remind you that the US Government did not give up waging economic warfare and vicious sanctions against Vietnam for many years after. Vietnam, in the end, was forced down the capital road.

And we should remind Unionist that the USA supported the Khmer Rouge for many years after 1975.

Did the US Military leave Japan? Korean peninsula? Did they abandon the Philippines or dozens of other countries once their foot was in thed door? No they didn't. So Vietnam was really the exception and not the rule.

Unionist wrote:
Fidel wrote:
Death and destruction reign merrily in case you haven't noticed.

I thought it was a "phony war"? When the U.S., Canada, and NATO are defeated, the death and destruction will return to the pre-October 2001 levels. Which is what Afghans have been asking for any time anyone asks them the question.

 

[url=Afghanistan">http://www.answercoalition.org/march-forward/statements/afghanistan-war-... war myths A statement by March Forward![/url] (U.S.)

wrote:
Myth 1: We are fighting to defeat the Taliban

Myth 2: We are fighting to defeat al-Qaeda.

Myth 3: We’re in Afghanistan to defend women’s rights and human rights.

Myth 4: We are fighting in self-defense.

Myth 5: We are going to leave Afghanistan.

Myth 6: The war in Afghanistan can be won.

Myth 7: The Taliban equals the resistance to the U.S. occupation.

 

Unionist wrote:
Fidel wrote:
How much more warmongering from Canadian cheerleaders should Afghans have to endure?

Good question. Afghans should be spared the kindly successive helping hands of Jean Chrétien, Paul Martin, Stephen Harper, Michael Ignatieff... oh, and Jack Layton, who some Canadians think should be invited over to head up "peace" talks, because the Afghan people are apparently incapable of looking after their own affairs.

 It's not Afghans the left are worried about. It's the 30 years war and constant US meddling with the aid of a succession of US-backed military dictatorships in Pakistan. War crimes have been committed in Afghanistan and fake pretexts for war used to justify the US military occupations of several countries since the start of the 2000s. You might as well suggest that there was no need for war crimes trials at Nuremberg. How else would the world have discovered that operation Himmler was a series of false flag attacks used to justify the start of WW II? Without peace there is only warfiteering. It's too high a price to pay for yet another generation of Afghans. They will only know war and despair as a result.

NDPP

"Layton went a step further Saturday, saying it would be better to change NATO than to abandon it. 'So we would work to transform it...We are going to work for the transformation of organizations for the future. People in NATO are already transforming it themselves..'" Jack Layton 2004

http://www.ctv.ca/CTVNews/SciTech/20040530/ndp_nato_040529/

Clearly Layton's pro-NATO stance conflicts with the NDP's rumoured anti-war position

Fidel

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:
IEDs are far more effective than no difference party mendacity

And who taught right wing extremists from Central Asia and Saudi Arabia how to make IEDs, car bombs, and to hijack planes?

This is not leftist talk. The language of war and calls for more senseless and phony war belong to the right.

Consider someone else for a change. Consider the millions of people who you say are demanding more war as if 30 years worth of war is not enough.

It's racism in the extreme. It's dirty, phony war. It's one big money laundering operation, and the crooks have gotten away with it for a long time. Too long.

NDPP

I decided to edit that but in truth I think that the very real damage being done to imperialism and US hegemony by the effectiveness of people's resistance in Afghanistan and elsewhere INCLUDING IEDS, is unquestionable. And just as unquestionable is the damage being done to any effective national anti-war movement here by existing connections to ndp mendacity typified by these NATO statements above

Unionist

Fidel wrote:
Consider the millions of people who you say are demanding more war as if 30 years worth of war is not enough.

 

They're not "demanding more war", Fidel. They're waging it. A war for national survival. And that war (along with others around the world) will destroy the U.S. empire, just as it put the final nail in the rotten Soviet empire. And no, they don't need some U.S. experts to teach them how to build IEDs. They've got that down pat. It's the Empire that can't find the IEDs - because the Empire doesn't have the Afghan people on its side.

 

Fidel

The Afghan Arabs are relatively new to Afghanistan. Pakistanis laid blame for the Talibanization of Pakistan on Afghans and vice versa. US taxpayers are still funding the madrassa system today according to US whistleblowers.

30 years later we have leftists calling for more war in Afghanistan. Wars have rarely if ever resulted in more democratic nations than before. The US has bombed dozens of countries and sent US troops to war dozens of times. How many of those countries are more democratic as a result? It took the Vietnamese until the late 1980s and even into the 1990s to purge the last of the US-backed Khmer Rouge from their country and marauding in over the borders from Cambodia and Thailand. By comparison the ISI/CIA controlled Taliban could wage terror on millions of ordinary Afghans for many years to come.

Legitimate peace talks are needed in order to negotiate guarantees from Pakistan's military regime and other countries that they will respect Afghan sovereignty and stop supporting the Taliban and other right wing extremist groups with help from the USA. Otherwise a war without peace negotiations is just a senseless war that results in the meaningless suffering of millions.

A legitimate loya jirga is needed to establish who the Afghans are and not US-backed Afghan-Arabs, criminal warlords whose only support is with western intelligence agencies, the bought and paid-for mujahideen in Karzai's corrupt and criminal regime, and the Taliban and "ex-Taliban", who RAWA describe as the enemies of the Afghan people.

A legitimate  loya jirga is needed to bring Afghan women to the peace talks and to give highest priority to the concerns of ordinary Afghans.

A legitimate loya jirga with UN mediation is needed to establish a road map for peace in Afghanistan after 30 years of war and chaos and meaningless suffering of millions of human beings. Because right now the US-led NATO forcces from more than 25 countries and several more have no exit strategy. They requre adult supervision and guidance from the left. Jack Layton says it is Canada's obligation to use already established diplomatic channels to make peace happen in Afghanistan. Warmongers will not do it on their own.

NDPP

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Resistance Statements: The Negotiation Ploy Boomerangs on the Enemy

http://www.shahamat.info/english/

"The esteemed Amir - ul Mumineen, Mullah Mohammad Omar Mujahid, in his Eid message, re-affirmed the stance of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan regarding talks with the puppet Kabul regime and the American invaders. He made it clear that the solution of the Afghan issues lies only in full withdrawal of foreign forces from Afghanistan. The recent developments as regards our country show the far-sightedness of the Amir, by not responding to the war strategem being launched by the enemy time and time again under the name of peace-talk overtures..

With the passage of time it becomes more and more exposed that the enemy is only trying to create rifts among the ranks of Mujahideen through publishing false reports of peace talks with senior officials of the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan.."

The Shameful Consequences of the Phony Negotiations

The Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan was on its guard against these intrigues of the Americans and their invading Allies. It is determined never to negotiate in conditions where the foreign forces are stationed in the country...

Afghanistan Causes Holbrook's Aorta Tear-Up

Holbrook's goal was to persuade people of Afghanistan and Pakistan to take to the American war to the point that people would believe it was a legitimate war of America; array people against each other in ethnic hostilities and keep people occupied and engaged with deceptive peace slogans..

Afghanistan is not a land and country where you can attain implementation of your deceptive and devilish schemes; nor is it practicable that the indigenous people of the region would ever ignore the current occupation and existence of 150,000 troops on their soil...May the Americans kneel down here on this soil and face historical rout..'"

"To end we want to tell the CIA concocters of conspiracies that the Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan is not a foundation the leaders of which you can buy with money or decieve with phony processes and fatuous slogans - their personalities are overwhelmingly with the Islamic faith and real Afghan spirit.

They have a strong resolve to forge ahead with the Jihad and face off with the enemy. Either they will lay down their lives or compel the enemy to flee Afghan territory. .'"

Canada is not and can never be an honest broker in AFghanistan. Out Now!

 

 

Fidel

Jon Rappoport in September wrote:
[url=http://arcticcompass.blogspot.com/2010/06/war-in-afghanistan.html]An apocryphal story[/url] tells of a Taliban leader in the mountains where Afghanistan meets Pakistan, looking at his wrist and saying to a Western visitor: "You have the watches, but we have the time." That may be the Taliban's most powerful weapon against the Americans.

As long as it's working toward an end, then I suppose it has purpose. I don't know. Perhaps I am too hard on Unionist and NDPP.

NDPP

Definitely Wink

Frmrsldr

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

Islamic Emirate of Afghanistan Resistance Statements: The Negotiation Ploy Boomerangs on the Enemy

http://www.shahamat.info/english/

 

What does this tell us?

This tells us that the Mansour imposter was a CIA/U.S. military plant.

When WikiLeaks(?) or the mainstream media released this story, the U.S. military (in the form of Gen. David Petraeus) gave us the plausible deniability story that they had been "duped", suggesting that U.S. intelligence about the Taliban is not as good as the insurgents' intelligence about U.S./NATO/ISAF activity in Afghanistan.

Frmrsldr

Here is an overview of the Afghanistan and Pakistan Annual Review:

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/20008-afghanistan-and-pakistan-an...

margot66

Obama slays me.  But wait, this isn't him. It's some group that was set in motion by him.

 

("The Afghanistan and Pakistan Annual Review was directed by President Obama in December 2009 to be a National Security Staff (NSS)-led assessment of our strategy in Afghanistan and Pakistan.")

 

The funniest part so far, and thanks for the link, Frmrsldr, is this:

 

p.3 "improved civilian stabilization activities, the development of critical energy and other infrastructure, and a robust flood response and recovery effort - which NATO directly assisted."

 

The dronefield vs the hundreds of thousands flooded out, the idle Badgers in Afghanistan, all that unused useful stuff in Afghanistan. Does the "development of critical energy and other infrastructure" mean the future pipeline through Herat and Kandahar rather than Iran?

 

There's a great window to the hearts and minds stuff at

http://www.shahamat.info/english/, the link NDPP provided earlier. Oodles of dodgy math but awfully funny points to bring up if being force-fed turkey with dingy music.

 

By the way, I did not write "Taliban Leader in Secret Talks Was an Impostor".  It was the NYT headline.  Amazing grocer?

 

margot66

Oops it was the US, not NATO drones. All the same to the pitch linked to above.

 

http://pulitzercenter.org/articles/pakistan-flood-why-us-not-winning-hea...

 

In a story that has received almost no attention in the United States, the U.S. military has infuriated the Pakistani public by allegedly breaching the Indus River and flooding a Pakistani village in order to protect a strategic airstrip used to launch unmanned drone attacks.  Two prominent Pakistanis, Feryal Ali Gauhar - a human rights activist - and Ali Sethi - an author - have independently drawn attention to such reports. Pakistan's former Prime Minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali similarly alleged that the Indus river embankments in upper Sindh was covertly breached to save the US-run Shahbaz Airbase at the expense of heavily populated Jaffarabad and adjoining districts. "I believe there was American pressure on the authorities to safeguard the Shahbaz airbase," he told Pakistan's Dawn newspaper. Many Pakistanis also believe that U.S. forces supervising an airbase in the Jacobabad district of Sindh province denied permission for the airstrip to be used to deliver much-needed relief to submerged areas where 700,000 people were trapped.

margot66

http://isilenti.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/afghan_proverb_by_latuff2.jpg

 

Latuff poster/cartoon of your quote about watches and time, Fidel.

 

 

 

 

My favourite Latuff is War is Business. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b3/War4.gif

 

He gives it all away, but likes to be thanked and to see photos of how you may have used his stuff.

Fidel
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

[url=http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=53900]Brutal U.S. tactics put the lie to claims of trying to win over the population[/url]

Quote:
The most prominent of those tactics was a large-scale demolition of homes that has left widespread bitterness among the civilians who had remained in their villages when the U.S.-NATO offensive was launched, as well as those who had fled before the offensive.

The unprecedented home demolition policy and other harsh tactics used in the offensive suggest that Gen. Petraeus has abandoned the pretense that he will ever win over the population in those Taliban strongholds.

The New York Times first reported the large-scale demolition of houses in a Nov. 16 story that said U.S. troops in Arghandab, Zhari and Panjwaii districts had been using armoured bulldozers, high explosives, missiles and airstrikes in "routinely destroying almost every unoccupied home or unused farm building in areas where they are operating".

margot66

Canadian troops had nine armoured bulldozers to play with in the area US troops are now destroying, Badger AEVs.  Descriptions and lots of mighty bulldozer photos at

http://casr.ca/bg-leopard-badger-aev.htm

margot66

I'm surprised there's anything significant left to destroy there. This has been going on for years. Keeping Vancouver safe.

 

Are there any raisin drying towers left? So important to the income, productivity, pride, and culture, they are a terrible loss. Most Canadians have never tasted properly shade-dried raisins, the glory of Kandahar. Former glory of Kandahar, alas.
 
I remember a NATO general describing these amazing structures as "fortresses with walls too thick for ordinary ammunition to penetrate, and slits for shooting through".
 

Except in grape drying season, I imagine a raisin tower would be considered an "unused farm building". Same crashing ignorance was applied to karezes.

Frmrsldr

Obama's claims of Afghan progress convince no one.

Jason Ditz wrote:

The administration's claims seem to have been designed as a media-friendly collection of sound bites at the end of a disastrous year of war, but topping off such a terrible year of violence with a claim of non-specific progress must inevitably be doing serious damage to their credibility.

http://news.antiwar.com/2010/12/17/obamas-claims-of-progress-convince-no...

Fidel

Malalai Joya wrote:
[url=http://www.malalaijoya.com/dcmj/joya-in-media/571-malalai-joya-speaking-... long as the troops will be there bombing[/url], and their government giving dollars and also power to these terrorists it will be more easier for [the terrorists] to eliminate the democratically minded people of Afghanistan who are the alternative for the bright future,” she said. “The few democratic parties we have, modern parties, intellectuals we have - they are eliminating them. So leave Afghanistan.”

And while carrying on with this phony war on terror, why not eliminate democratically minded Afghans while we're going? Four more phony wars!!

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

Fidel wrote:
Consider the millions of people who you say are demanding more war as if 30 years worth of war is not enough.

 

They're not "demanding more war", Fidel. They're waging it. A war for national survival. And that war (along with others around the world) will destroy the U.S. empire, just as it put the final nail in the rotten Soviet empire.

This is also false. The ISAF forces alone represent troops from 36 countries. In your often cited example of US helicopters fleeing Vietnam, there were mainly US troops fighting indigenous NVA and VC. The US covertly and overtly supported the Khmer Rouge for many years after 1975 in order to destabilize Vietnam and Cambodia.

Dirty war in Afghanistan of the 1980s was mainly a proxy war between the US and mercenaries from about 40 countries versus the Afghan PDPA government forces from 1989 to 1992, almost three years after the Soviets withdrew. The PDPA comrprised of Afghan men and women volunteers kept fighting against the US-backed mujahideen who were armed to the eye teeth for two years after the Soviet Union collapsed.

And then they tore the country apart over the next ten years with US financed terrorism while NATO countries turned their backs to it all. And some of those same anticommunist jihadi "freedom fighters" are there in Karzai's government and others pretending to be opposed to the pro mujahideen Karzai kleptocracy today. RAWA says they are all the same right wing extremists.

The IED training came from the CIA in Virginia. Even after 9/11, the US stepped up [url=http://articles.latimes.com/2009/nov/15/world/fg-cia-pakistan15]covert funding to Pakistan's army intelligence agency[/url] who in turn control and support the Taliban with covert training in terrorism. The IED training certainly has come in handy, but terrorism using IEDs is not Afghan - the IED training came from the CIA and US Military as have various techniques for car bombing and hijacking planes. Let's be truthful about these nitty gritty details. I know it's recent history and probably too embarrassing for some to admit to, but it's real history nonetheless.

Unionist

Fidel wrote:
In your often cited example of US helicopters fleeing Vietnam, there were mainly US troops fighting indigenous NVA and VC.

Let's not forget Soviet helicopters and tanks biting the dust in Afghanistan.

Unionist

Thanks for your photo of the "Afghan puppets & their masters going down", Fidel.

I prefer my photos of Afghans to yours, though, for reasons that most enemies of imperialism will understand.

 

Fidel

Ronald Raygun and right wing "freedom fighters" in the good old days. Now they are part of the kleptocracy in Kabul and others running the phony war from the other sordid end of things.

[img]http://inquirer.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/c12820-32.jpg[/img]

lol

[url=http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/51/104.html]Real Afghan history according to Canadian John Ryan[/url]

I don't think rabble should be advocating a warmongering point of view. I think that such racist, pro war, and what essentially amounts to moral support for prolonging America's 30 year-long dirty war in Afghanistan belong with the political right. Veiled warmongering has little to do with a left wing anti-war movement.

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