Brexit

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NorthReport

Quote:
Video evidence has emerged of Nigel Farage saying EU cash should be spent on the National Health Service after Brexit.

The Ukip leader on Friday morning denied having endorsed a pledge to spend Britain’s EU contribution on the NHS just hours after the referendum results came in.

He told ITV’s Good Morning Britain that the pledge came from others in the Leave campaign and that it was their “mistake” to loudly earmark £350 million for the health service during the campaign.

However footage from BBC Question Time on 9 June – just weeks before the referendum –shows the Ukip leader claiming the available cash was higher than £350 million and saying money should be spent on hospitals and GPs.

“Can we just get to the truth of this - £350 million a week is wrong, it’s higher than that,” he told the programme’s audience.

“FACT – absolute fact –  from the official statistics cross-checked from the EU: we pay £55 million a day as a contribution. Some of that is the rebate which doesn’t go but our gross contribution is £55 million a day.”

“We should spend that money here, in our own country, on our own people,” he added.

 

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-eu-referendum-nigel...

NorthReport

Like the NDP in Canada now Labour Party is dead in the water

Furious Nigel Farage to take control of Britain's exit from the EU in Brussels after Vote Leave freezes him out

Nigel Farage has reacted with fury after Vote Leave said it would exclude him from a cross-party committee which will negotiate Britain’s exit from the European Union.

The UK Independence Party leader said that he would use his position as head of the Ukip group in the European Parliament – the biggest group  of British MEPs – to ensure he had a say over the terms of British breakaway from the EU.

Senior Vote Leave sources on Friday made clear that Mr Farage would not be invited to join the committee negotiating the Brexit.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/furious-nigel-farage-to-take-...

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Because Farage was lying, Unionist.

Duh, yeah, I had that figured out. But did the voters? And if they believed they were voting for spending money on themselves instead of Europe, why not oblige them? Isn't that what it means to respect the will of the electorate? Oh yeah, because no one promised that.

Quote:
Regardless of Cameron's motives (and again, this was all about party division for him) the 350 million isn't there just waiting to be reallocated, and it really isn't going to be there once the costs of this start rolling in.

Thanks for forecasting the neoliberal excuses for not improving social services.

Quote:
And it really really isn't going to be there if one of the members of the Union decides to leave.

Is that prediction on the same level as the "expert" predictions about how the vote would go?

NorthReport

----

NorthReport

And so it begins

U.K. wants free trade deal with Canada, high commissioner says

'We'll be strongly pro-free trade outside the European Union,' Howard Drake says

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/uk-canada-free-trade-deal-brexit-1.3652048

NorthReport
6079_Smith_W

Unionist wrote:

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Because Farage was lying, Unionist.

Duh, yeah, I had that figured out. But did the voters? And if they believed they were voting for spending money on themselves instead of Europe, why not oblige them? Isn't that what it means to respect the will of the electorate? Oh yeah, because no one promised that.

Double duh. Obviously they didn't.

And Cameron can't spend money that is not there, any more than he could fly and shoot rainbows out his behind if Farage had promised that. And if it had been an irresponsible promise it would have been wrong for him to do it just to spite the electorate, and he would have been responsible for it.

 

NorthReport

This is what happens when people give up on democracy, on the political system. It is just too corrupt.

To have allowed somebody's rich kid like Cameron to have so much control over the future of one's country, well.......this is the result.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKFTtYx2OHc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_People_(song)

NorthReport

What's the Difference Between England, Britain and the U.K.?

Listen up, would-be Anglophiles: Here's how never to mess up your realms, kingdoms and empires again

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/whats-difference-between-englan...

iyraste1313

from the Independent

Credit ratings agency Moody's has downgraded the UK Government's bond rating from stable to negative in light of Britain's decision to leave the European Union.

The agency warns Britain's economic growth will be weaker, its economic policymaking may be diminished and the government's fiscal strength reduced

      Moody's said: "Moody's expects a negative impact on the economy unless the UK government manages to negotiate a trade deal that largely replicates its current access to the Single Market.

      ...Moody´s that totally corrupt arm of the corporate elite?

      The beginnings of the counterattack!

      bekayne

      NorthReport

      What England needs now is for the London area to become the "Free State of Khan" arising out of the UK's ashes, eh! 

      http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/true-story-free-state-jones-180958...

       

      6079_Smith_W

      Today.

      http://stv.tv/news/stirling-central/1358555-orange-order-parade-set-to-p...

      A friend posted a pic on FB. Not the goons in the bowlers, but a gang of them in black paramilitary.

      Hey, it's all good so long as it serves to undermine Obama, NATO and the one percent, right?

       

      iyraste1313

       

      Pravda: Czechia, Hungary, Slovakia, and Greece are ready to leave EU

      By GPD on June 25, 2016

       

      A referendum on leaving the EU has taken place in Great Britain, where the Brexit supporters gained victory. 52% of the British are reported to have voted for exit. Petr Iskenderov, senior fellow at the Institute of Slavic Studies, told Pravda.Ru about consequences Britain and the whole world face after Brexit.

      How will the changed power balance influence the EU?

      Britain leaves EU. Who’s next?

      First of all, it should be noted that it will happen not immediately, as the parties should implement a number of legal procedures, which will regulate further relationship between London and Brussels. But the consequences will certainly take place. First, eurosceptic mood will strengthen in other EU countries and the same campaigns on organization of suchreferendums may be expected in Central and Eastern Europe, in particular in the Czech Republic, Hungary, and Slovakia, as well as in the Mediterranean, Greece first of all. Second, we can expect yet another referendum in Scotland, as it voted for remain of Great Britain in the EU, and leaders of movement for Scotland’s independence have already declared that they would initiate a second referendum on leaving Britain. Third, there will be change of power balance in foreign policy. Positions of adherents of hard policy towards Russia will evidently weaken, as the Scandinavian countries, the Baltics and Poland were guided namely by Great Britain and the PM Cameron, who declared about his intention to leave.

      Which will be the results in countries, where such referendums would take place? In France, in the Netherlands?

      It is necessary to change the ruling coalition in France to carry out such referendum. It will be possible if National Front achieves success at the coming parliamentary elections. The same is in Germany. A victory of the Alternative for Germany movement is needed to conduct alike referendum. However in Central and Eastern Europe, as well as in Greece, one can carry out referendums under current political conditions, and victory of those who support exit from the EU is possible.

       

      NorthReport

      Wow!  Frown

      The Sun, Not the Rain, Tipped the U.K. Vote

      http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-24/the-sun-not-the-rain-t...

      NorthReport

      Nobody is next, and Brits will now be doing their best to reverse it.

      alan smithee alan smithee's picture

      NorthReport wrote:

      Be careful, be very careful what you wish for.

      Welcome to the world of Farage, Johnson, Le Pen, Trump, etc.

      Brexit and Europe’s Angry Old Men & Women

      And now this. Just as Europeans of my generation were being relieved of those anxious old men, another type stepped onstage: the angry old men.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/24/opinion/brexit-and-europes-angry-old-m...

      Just drop a fleet of nukes on to the planet and get it over already.

      Boris Johnson and Donald Trump...sounds worse than Reagan and Thatcher...and then you throw in that pos LePen..wow.

      We're fucked.

      6079_Smith_W

      Aristotleded24 wrote:

      Which "radio?" The MSM all around the world was in the tank for "Remain," but the MSM hasn't done a good job of telling people what's going on. There are so many issues they're not covering properly, issues like poverty and climate change, and they were caught flat-footed when the economy crashed in 2007-2008. As for Escobar, when he was on The Real News, I found him to be effective in seeing through Obama's BS right at the start. Or I guess we should all accept that Brad Wall is a great guy and a wonderful Premier because the Saskatchewan media says he is.

      It was the noon show and the afternoon show, but that old MSM shill Noam Chomsky says the same thing. This is going to push Britain toward North America, not away from it. Not sure what he thinks about Brad Wall, if that is relevant.

      http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/What-5-Leading-Leftists-Think-Abou...

      mark_alfred

      Re:  post #308

      I feel there's some parallels in Britain to the situation here, with "somebody's rich kid" like Cameron (or Trudeau) being supposedly on the side of good (centrist neoliberalism) vs those of a more reactionary side (Trump, Farage, and if Trudeau's popularity wanes then likely someone in Canada will step into this role at some point).  Meanwhile, Labour and the NDP kinda wallow on the sidelines not capturing many people's imagination.  Rabble has an article on this (a good article, though simply preaching "listening" is a bit of a cop-out -- certainly Notley and some working class types at the NDP convention were not listened to in their call to not accept the Leap motion -- IE, there's signs that working class people in Windsor were none too pleased).  Anyway, interesting that Farage and Trump are seen as the voice of commoners (begin the fanfare now).

      josh

      NorthReport wrote:

      Wow!  Frown

      The Sun, Not the Rain, Tipped the U.K. Vote

      http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-06-24/the-sun-not-the-rain-t...


      Nothing new. The Murdoch press helped swing the 1992 election with their Nightmare on Kinnock Street

      josh

      NorthReport wrote:

      Like the NDP in Canada now Labour Party is dead in the water

      Furious Nigel Farage to take control of Britain's exit from the EU in Brussels after Vote Leave freezes him out

      Nigel Farage has reacted with fury after Vote Leave said it would exclude him from a cross-party committee which will negotiate Britain’s exit from the European Union.

      The UK Independence Party leader said that he would use his position as head of the Ukip group in the European Parliament – the biggest group  of British MEPs – to ensure he had a say over the terms of British breakaway from the EU.

      Senior Vote Leave sources on Friday made clear that Mr Farage would not be invited to join the committee negotiating the Brexit.


      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/furious-nigel-farage-to-take-...


      What does that have to do with the Labour Party? And keep on shilling for the EU, the entity that crushed democracy in Greece and sentenced the Greek and Spanish people to an unending 20% plus unemployment rate.

      epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

      After Brexit, European Left Calls for 'Massive Political Opposition'

      In the tumultuous aftermath of the UK's vote to leave the EU, the European left is responding with a mix of reason, measured reassurances, and righteous defiance.

      Left Unity, a populist UK political party, released a statement early Friday morning that criticized the right-wing organizers of the Leave campaign and vowed to "step up the fight against neo-liberalism here—opposing all cuts, defending the NHS [National Health Service], fighting for decent housing—and across Europe."

      quote:

      "Under these conditions, it's even more important that organizations and activists redouble their efforts to oppose toxic trade deals, corporate power grabs and above all defend the rights and dignity of migrants," Dearden said.

      Left Unity concluded its message by calling for a "massive political opposition to neo-liberalism, against austerity and poverty" throughout the continent.

      "We watch the advance of the left in Europe—particularly where there is newfound cooperation and unity in Spain and Portugal—with our hearts filled with hope," the group said. "But we also watch with grave concern the rise of the far right across Europe as well as in Britain. We need urgently to consolidate our forces against this growing tendency."

      In Spain, the leftist party Podemos responded to the vote by saying, "We need to end austerity to end this disaffection and this existential crisis of the European project. We need to democratize decision making, guarantee social rights and respect human rights."

      Paladin1

      I don't see what the issue is. The majority voted to leave. Maybe it will spur Scotland to do the same, or maybe Quebec here in Canada.

      NorthReport

      You make therm sound like prisoners. Last time I checked you can leave the EC.

      josh wrote:
      NorthReport wrote:

      Like the NDP in Canada now Labour Party is dead in the water

      Furious Nigel Farage to take control of Britain's exit from the EU in Brussels after Vote Leave freezes him out

      Nigel Farage has reacted with fury after Vote Leave said it would exclude him from a cross-party committee which will negotiate Britain’s exit from the European Union.

      The UK Independence Party leader said that he would use his position as head of the Ukip group in the European Parliament – the biggest group  of British MEPs – to ensure he had a say over the terms of British breakaway from the EU.

      Senior Vote Leave sources on Friday made clear that Mr Farage would not be invited to join the committee negotiating the Brexit.


      http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/25/furious-nigel-farage-to-take-...

      What does that have to do with the Labour Party? And keep on shilling for the EU, the entity that crushed democracy in Greece and sentenced the Greek and Spanish people to an unending 20% plus unemployment rate.

      montrealer58 montrealer58's picture

      Using classical liberal economics of austerity, the rich get richer and the poor get thrown out on the street. The old neoliberal right is now 'centre', and what is to the right of that becomes like fascism. 

      Then some neo-fascists can come along and prey on 'elites' while deliberately confusing the masses. What they do not want us to know is they are simply there as an alternative austerity government. Meanwhile Trump gets more 'presidential'...

      Jeremy Corbyn is right when he said that Conservative austerity had paved the way for the Brexit vote (

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/sturgeon-seeks-urgent-br...

      ). However he failed to bargain with Cameron to get concessions against austerity in exchange for the support of the Labour Party. He had the bargaining power to say that he would not have brought Labour along with Remain while conditions in the UK remain so bad for so many traditional Labour supporters. Many of them are voting UKIP as a protest, and I am sure they certainly voted Brexit as a protest.

      Labour now has the chance to sieze the opposition to the neoliberal status quo which at the same time will quell UKIP and other forces of the far right.  

      Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

      Remain supporters seem to want a do-over.

      Quote:
      More than two million people have signed a petition calling for a second EU referendum, after the vote to leave.

      It has more signatures than any other on the parliamentary website and as it has passed 100,000, Parliament will consider it for a debate.

      ...

      The petitions website states it was set up by an individual called William Oliver Healey, and says: "We the undersigned call upon HM Government to implement a rule that if the Remain or Leave vote is less than 60%, based on a turnout less than 75%, there should be another referendum."

      mark_alfred

      Re:  post #326

      That's just silly.  It was obvious for a while that it would be close.  If 50%+1 was the standard by which a side could win, and since Leave achieved this standard, then that should be respected.

      iyraste1313

      from Rabble`s article.....

      racist "blame the immigrants for neoliberalism" tendency we've seen grab hold.....

      ...this really is missing the point and the reason why the left has dropped the ball!
      Globalization is a failure for the mass populations...so desperate to find alternatives...and there is a left decentralist socialist alternative...but where is it being enunciated?

      This is why the right movements are gaining ground, why the working classes, the precariots are abandoing the social democratic lefties...they have no solutions to globalization! They don`t reject the system of finance capital ad nauseum!

      Which is mirrored in these rabble threads

      Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

      Well, in all likelihood, it was referring to the free movement of EU citizens throughout the EU, rather than some loopy "one worldism" thing. 

      And it's probably a good thing, too.  Not unlike the way that Canadians can freely travel between provinces.

      Paladin1

      Just took a look at your link and noticed the protester with the sign "No Borders"

      Safe to assume her house doesn't have locks?

      mark_alfred

      iyraste1313 wrote:

      and there is a left decentralist socialist alternative...but where is it being enunciated?

      What is this alternative?  Is it closing trade deals and having high tariffs for more local production?  Or fair trade with other socialist nations only rather than free trade with any nation?  Or something else?

      6079_Smith_W

      @ Paladin.

      A bit less like not locking your doors. More like getting rid of your house altogether, along with your job, your friends,  and everything else, which is what many Europeans and Britons are going to have to do because of this.

      Or in Northern Ireland, having your house blown up.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/northern-irish-pea...

      josh

      mark_alfred wrote:

      iyraste1313 wrote:

      and there is a left decentralist socialist alternative...but where is it being enunciated?

      What is this alternative?  Is it closing trade deals and having high tariffs for more local production?  Or fair trade with other socialist nations only rather than free trade with any nation?  Or something else?


      Go back to the pre-"trade" deal era. Median wage growth was higher in the late 40s to late 80s era than in the GATT/ Maastricht era.

      6079_Smith_W

      And the question of a new referendum, or how to deal with this one, is no longer academic; it will be debated.

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

      Maybe they'll treat the gasoline and matches a bit more carefully this time.

      As for leave kicking up a fuss:

      Quote:

      Nigel Farage warns today he would fight for a second referendum on Britain in Europe if the remain campaign won by a narrow margin next month.

      The Ukip leader said a small defeat for his leave camp would be “unfinished business” and predicted pressure would grow for a re-run of the 23 June ballot.

      Farage told the Mirror: “In a 52-48 referendum this would be unfinished business by a long way. If the remain campaign win two-thirds to one-third that ends it.”

      www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/nigel-farage-wants-second-referendum-7985017

       

      josh

      6079_Smith_W wrote:

      And the question of a new referendum, or how to deal with this one, is no longer academic; it will be debated.

      https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215

      Maybe they'll treat the gasoline and matches a bit more carefully this time.


      Yes, they should be forced to vote over and over again until they vote the way the financial elite want.

      josh

      6079_Smith_W wrote:

      @ Paladin.

      A bit less like not locking your doors. More like getting rid of your house altogether, along with your job, your friends,  and everything else, which is what many Europeans and Britons are going to have to do because of this.

      Or in Northern Ireland, having your house blown up.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/northern-irish-pea...


      Chicken Littleism.

      6079_Smith_W

      No, but I think it is reasonable to expect something slightly better than two percent to precipitate something that is going to have this kind of effect. Nigel Farage said exactly the same thing, and I expect if David Cameron had been thinking there was any chance it might turn out this way he would have  been a bit more cautious as well.

       

      epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

      ..real debate is not tolerated. only lies and fear are allowed. real debate needs to be carved out from the bottom up.

      eta: this is one of those rare moments when change can take place for the good. people could grab hold and take risks.

      6079_Smith_W

      josh wrote:
      6079_Smith_W wrote:

      @ Paladin.

      A bit less like not locking your doors. More like getting rid of your house altogether, along with your job, your friends,  and everything else, which is what many Europeans and Britons are going to have to do because of this.

      Or in Northern Ireland, having your house blown up.

      https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/24/northern-irish-pea...

      Chicken Littleism.

      What part? Anyone who used to have an EU passport will no longer. That means everyone goes home, including Britons.

      And regarding Northern Ireland, that is a ridiculous thing to say. Do you really need a 101 on the Troubles?

      As the article says, English nationalists, it turns out, wouldn’t give the froth off a pint of real ale for the Irish peace process.

      josh

      The economic impact.

      Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

      Quote:
      No, but I think it is reasonable to expect something slightly better than two percent to precipitate something that is going to have this kind of effect. Nigel Farage said exactly the same thing, and I expect if David Cameron had been thinking there was any chance it might turn out this way he would have  been a bit more cautious as well.

      Woulda, shoulda, coulda.

      Personally, I've always been OK with a supermajority for huge and far-reaching decisions, but neither side seemed to be pushing for that, and I'm not a Brit, so nunna my business.

      6079_Smith_W

      Well they are now, and they are legally bound to debate it.

      josh

      Have no use for Farage, but he's right when he said today that this is not the best two out of three.

      Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

      Quote:
      Well they are now, and they are legally bound to debate it.

      But not legally bound to debate it with gusto, or in good faith.

      Wasn't the U.S. government similarly "legally bound" to recognize the petition to deport Justin Bieber, because it too had some number of signatures?

      NorthReport

      Is the Labour leader not able to show some healthy leadership - what a golden opportunity he has at the moment.

      6079_Smith_W

      If he said that he is talking out of both sides of his mouth. Just weeks ago he said a narrow win would require a second referendum. See #334 above.

      And Magoo, I think they might debate this with a spirit more fitting to the petition's intent.

      NorthReport
      NorthReport

      Scotland Starts Toward Independence Vote to Keep EU Ties

      http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-25/scots-leaders-prepare-...

      Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

      Quote:
      And Magoo, I think they might debate this with a spirit more fitting to the petition's intent.

      You don't feel like maybe the honest intent of this was to have it debated, and (potentially) a resolution passed BEFORE the actual referendum??

      The fact that people are still signing it a month later is because (as the site says) petitions stay available for six months, not because it's never too late to move the goalposts if you have sour grapes.

      Paladin1

      Hopping over to Quebec to get some beer after the LCBO closes seems different from crossing borders in EU. I'd imagine there's different rules and laws for each country? I traveled a bit (Hungary, Germany, UK, Belgium, Luxembourg, Slovinia, Austria etc.) and it didn't seem too too drastic but there was still a cultural difference between countries.

       

      So with this decision UK people will have their travel plans drastically changed?

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