Brexit

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iyraste1313

How about fair trade with any nation, socialist or not? 

the grip of the financial sector could be curtailed. ......

.......Yes agreed, federalism between sovereign nations, autonomous regions, where appropriate and under control of peoples organizations and governance...

But curtailing the multitrillion dollare speculation community? This requires a whole other discussion...they dwarf any Nation`s economy, created by the elite Central banking system and their QE and zero or negative interest rates....this will require bankruptcies en masse...the big banks, the major corporations, most of whom are just speculative trading financial institutions anyway

bekayne
NDPP

The Left and the EU: Why Cling To This Reactionary Institution?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/22/the-left-and-the-eu-why-cling-to-...

"Why is it that so many people who consider themselves left-wing have such difficulty grasping that the EU is a deeply reactionary institution?

Without a doubt, that record is one that should cause those on the left now defending it acute embarrassment, as it starkly contradicts ideals that the left has always wanted to uphold..."

Particularly here where 'the Left' seems consistently confused and reactionary and always ready to support the most pernicious and offensive establishment or imperialist agendas.

6079_Smith_W

Maybe it is a game after all:

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/people-are-desperately-hoping-t...

Johnson has said he is in no hurry. And Cameron did not do it right away.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I'm suddenly thinking of the ending of "Dangerous Liasons".

quizzical

NDPP wrote:

The Left and the EU: Why Cling To This Reactionary Institution?

http://www.counterpunch.org/2016/06/22/the-left-and-the-eu-why-cling-to-...

"Why is it that so many people who consider themselves left-wing have such difficulty grasping that the EU is a deeply reactionary institution?

Without a doubt, that record is one that should cause those on the left now defending it acute embarrassment, as it starkly contradicts ideals that the left has always wanted to uphold..."

Particularly here where 'the Left' seems consistently confused and reactionary and always ready to support the most pernicious and offensive establishment or imperialist agendas.

i know!!!!!! go figure. but these sames so called lefts voted Trudeau so there ya go...

NDPP

'Here's The Twist'

https://youtu.be/kPtT3tJjiAA

"Patrick Young, expert in global financial markets, explains his optimism:

'...And that's why I'm optimistic. Because there are going to be rough seas ahead, but it's much better being out there sailing free than it is to be shackled to the iceberg which is the Titanic of Brussels.

 

6079_Smith_W

Mr. Magoo wrote:

I'm suddenly thinking of the ending of "Dangerous Liasons".

It doesn't entirely add up, because why would he just do this to screw Johnson, knowing he would have to resign? Better to not have called it at all.

But who would be prepared to pull the plug is a very good question.

mark_alfred
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
It doesn't entirely add up, because why would he just do this to screw Johnson, knowing he would have to resign? Better to not have called it at all.

Now I'm recalling the modern-day parable of the frog and the scorpion.  :0

swallow swallow's picture
Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
When asked whether she could imagine the fury of the British people if she stopped them from leaving Europe, she said it was similar to the fury of the Scottish.

"I can, but it's perhaps very similar to the fury of many people in Scotland right now, as we face the prospect of being taken out of the European Union against our will," she said.

Quote:
She also cautioned any future British prime minister against vetoing a new Scottish independence vote.

"I think people in Scotland would find that completely unacceptable," she said.

cco

And now the Red Tory Blairites have picked this weekend to launch their coup. Is it a coincidence that this has happened at the same time Cameron has resigned and polls show Labour under Corbyn neck-and-neck in the polls? The Red Tories aren't afraid of being wiped out in a snap election. They're afraid of an actual left-winger winning, demolishing their carefully constructed argument that the left is unelectable and the only options are flavours of conservatism.

The next few months will be quite instructive for those of us seeking to rebuild the NDP.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

re: #402.  Anyone else notice that Mr. T-Shirt Philosopher has half a haircut?  Nothing weird about that... just sayin'.

mark_alfred

cco wrote:
Is it a coincidence that this has happened at the same time Cameron has resigned and polls show Labour under Corbyn neck-and-neck in the polls?

That's the first I've heard this.  Could you please link a poll that confirms this?

cco

Sure.

Quote:
Ironically, the same poll also shows Labour level pegging with the Conservatives, with both parties on 32%, which is one of Labour’s best performances in a recent poll.

mark_alfred

Thanks.  I did find a site that has a lot of polls, and yes, things seem close.

http://ukpollingreport.co.uk/voting-intention-2

It's odd though, because when I read of how Labour is doing, news reports don't usually sound too impressed.  The last council elections, for instance, were portrayed as Labour not doing as well as expected.  Yet when I look at the results, I think it looks like they did great.  That's the thing, I'm not too familiar with how things work over there.

josh

Poll out today has Labour and the Conservatives tied.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_King...

NorthReport

Britain is having a political meltdown and Labour instead of seizing the moment has a death wish

NDPP

How Western Military Interventions Shaped the Brexit Vote: Dr Michael Hudson on Brexit (and vid)

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&i...

"...So when people talk about the immigrants to Europe, the Europeans, the French, the Dutch, the English, they're all aware of the fact that Brussels is really NATO, and NATO is run by Washington, and that it's America's new Cold War against Russia that's been spurring all of this..."

 

'Let's Not Be Hasty': Despite EU Push, UK Politicians Say No Need For Quick Brexit (and vid)

https://www.rt.com/news/348475-brexit-no-rush-uk/

"Brexit may take up to 10 years to implement."

 

Yes Minister - Why Britain Joined the EU?

https://youtu.be/37iHSwA1SwE

and why it may take its own sweet time leaving perhaps..

 

wage zombie

cco wrote:

And now the Red Tory Blairites have picked this weekend to launch their coup. Is it a coincidence that this has happened at the same time Cameron has resigned and polls show Labour under Corbyn neck-and-neck in the polls? The Red Tories aren't afraid of being wiped out in a snap election. They're afraid of an actual left-winger winning, demolishing their carefully constructed argument that the left is unelectable and the only options are flavours of conservatism.

This is how it looks like to me too, from way over here.  How self-aware do you think these Blairites are?  Do you think they know that they don't want a left-winger winning, or do you think that they are subconsciously just trying to protect their power and so they are fooling themselves into seeing Corbyn as impotent?

Quote:

The next few months will be quite instructive for those of us seeking to rebuild the NDP.

I'm glad you're on board, too!

NDPP

Cracks in the EU

http://thesaker.is/cracks-in-the-eu/

A messy, protracted and expensive divorce is a likely scenario.

 

bekayne

http://www.vox.com/2016/6/25/12029786/brexit-uk-eu-immigration-xenophobia

Now some pundits are suggesting that the real lesson of Brexit is that ordinary Britons are bearing an unacceptable economic cost from immigration, and that elites should heed that lesson and think about restricting immigration to other Western countries to prevent a similar populist backlash.

There’s just one problem: this narrative isn’t actually true. Data shows that Britain wasn’t suffering harmful economic effects from too many new migrants.

What Britain was suffering from too much of, however, was xenophobia — fear and hatred of immigrants. Bigotry on the basis of national origin.

That’s not something you give into, and close the borders. It’s something you fight.

 

SeekingAPolitic...

Corbyn is not going anywhere.  This "coup" is a last chance for new labour to gain power through a method that does not include the will of the actual membership.  For the most part the MSM is calling for Corbyn to step down but there is one big favour that the media is doing for Corbyn.  By calling it a "coup" it makes the Blairites look power hungry and trying to seize power through a devious method. 

200 000 people signed this petiton to support Corbyn over 2 days.

https://you.38degrees.org.uk/petitions/a-vote-of-confidence-in-jeremy-co...

I just hope that more of the Blairtes rise up because so it gives the Corbyn a target rather than have scheming behind is back and trying to sabotage his leadership.  This was coming the Blairites were waiting for any chance to attack Corbyn.  The one thing I hope that will happen is that Corbyn supporters can run alternative candiates in the ridings of the Blairites for nomination.  I don't know the politics of the UK but I wonder if Corbyn could refuse to sign the nomination papers of the coup plotters?  I wonder if this going too far in political sense, can the Blairies be removed this way.  It would probably look bad on Corbyn if he tries this because it would undermind the meme that Corbyn is all about being the individual and then he will overrule the local membership. 

 

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

Cracks in the EU

http://thesaker.is/cracks-in-the-eu/

A messy, protracted and expensive divorce is a likely scenario.

That's a laugh, as usual. Saker must know that wall mural is about the agreement that is now in tatters following this vote. 

I'd say he is also in fantasy land, but I expect he has a clearer view than some; his mention of NATO and LePen show why he really likes this vote. He has plenty willing to believe the fairy tale, though.

NDPP

"The real reason the Blairites want him out - Jeremy Corbyn is preparing to call for a warcrimes investigation into Tony Blair...

The PLP coup has long been coordinated with those at the Guardian - now a neocon publication."

https://twitter.com/georgegalloway

6079_Smith_W

Yes George, of course.

Quote:

I’ve often wished I could believe in conspiracy theories, because it would make life so much easier. Boyfriend seems to have changed over the years, and not for the better? He’s a lizard wearing boyfriend skin. Late for work in the morning? The Illuminati drained my gas tank!

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/conspiracy-theorists-rejoice-brex...

quizzical

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Yes George, of course.
Quote:

I’ve often wished I could believe in conspiracy theories, because it would make life so much easier. Boyfriend seems to have changed over the years, and not for the better? He’s a lizard wearing boyfriend skin. Late for work in the morning? The Illuminati drained my gas tank!

">http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/conspiracy-theorists-rejoice-brex...

speaking about a "flood of well oiled propaganda" and "(if it does not achieve my aims, it must be wrong)". ffs.

and the ageist comments by her should be cause for her firing.

6079_Smith_W

But in fact there was a strong correlation with age, particularly with the young and old. It is a valid argument.

quizzical

what is valid about it?

6079_Smith_W

Go back to page 8 and look at the breakdown at #215. Over 60 percent of those under 25 voted to remain. Fifty eight percent of those over 64 voted to leave. We can quibble about why, but I'd expect a fair bit of it had to do with that generation's values and illusions around Anglo nationalism.

 

 

lagatta

The plot to oust Corbyn is anti-democratic and offensive: http://labourlist.org/2016/06/the-plot-to-oust-corbyn-is-anti-democratic...

quizzical

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Go back to page 8 and look at the breakdown at #215. Over 60 percent of those under 25 voted to remain. Fifty eight percent of those over 64 voted to leave. We can quibble about why, but I'd expect a fair bit of it had to do with that generation's values and illusions around Anglo nationalism.

i saw the break down and commented on it before.

 

6079_Smith_W

Yup. I know. Doesn't invalidate it. And that was what you asked.

Regardless of the reason, this was a case of the older generations winning over the younger generation which overwhelmingly did not want this.

We are used to seeing these sorts of splits when it comes to drug laws and other regressive measures. Kind of odd to see it defended as something progressive, especially when we all know the racist and xenophobic side of this campaign, and in the reaction to the outcome.

Sorry to say a lot of people young and old, but especially old, bought that line.

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

2008 All Over Again

By Chris Hedges

Great Britain’s decision to leave the European Union has wiped out many bankers and global speculators. They will turn, as they did in 2008, to governments to rescue them from default. Most governments, including ours, will probably comply.

Will the American public passively permit another massive bailout of the banks? Will it accept more punishing programs of austerity to pay for this bailout? Will a viable socialism rise out of the economic chaos to halt further looting of the U.S. Treasury and the continued reconfiguration of the economy into neofeudalism? Or will a right-wing populism, with heavy undertones of fascism, ascend to power because of a failure on the part of the left to defend a population once again betrayed?

Whatever happens next will be chaotic. Global financial markets, which lost heavily on derivatives, are already in free fall. The value of the British pound has dropped by over 9 percent and British bank stock prices by over 25 percent. This decline has wiped out the net worth of many Wall Street brokerage houses and banks, leaving them with negative equity. The Brexit vote severely cripples and perhaps kills the eurozone and, happily, stymies trade agreements such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It throws the viability of NATO and American imperial designs in Eastern Europe and the Middle East into question. The British public’s repudiation of neoliberal economics also has the potential to upend the presidential elections. The Democratic Party will orchestrate a rescue of Wall Street if there is a call for a bailout. Donald Trump and the Republicans, by opposing a bailout, can ride popular revulsion to power....

NDPP

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Kind of odd to see it defended as something progressive, especially when we all know the racist and xenophobic side of this campaign,

 

 A somewhat different take you took on the  'racism and xenophobic side' when the Nazi oligarchy was installed in Ukraine eh Smith? Blairism's Canadian variant is alive and thriving here in case nobody noticed by the way.

BrexitPhobia  -  by Raheem Kassam

http://breitbart.com/london/2016/06/27/leave-voters-suffer-widespread-ab...

"Mainstream news organisations have spent the weekend attending English Defence League and far-right rallies in order to try and portray Brexit voters as racists. Channel 4's 'coverage' of the subject almost exclusively uses images from nationalist rallies to represent the pro-Leave camp..."

 

jjuares

epaulo13 wrote:

2008 All Over Again

By Chris Hedges

Great Britain’s decision to leave the European Union has wiped out many bankers and global speculators. They will turn, as they did in 2008, to governments to rescue them from default. Most governments, including ours, will probably comply.

Will the American public passively permit another massive bailout of the banks? Will it accept more punishing programs of austerity to pay for this bailout? Will a viable socialism rise out of the economic chaos to halt further looting of the U.S. Treasury and the continued reconfiguration of the economy into neofeudalism? Or will a right-wing populism, with heavy undertones of fascism, ascend to power because of a failure on the part of the left to defend a population once again betrayed?

Whatever happens next will be chaotic. Global financial markets, which lost heavily on derivatives, are already in free fall. The value of the British pound has dropped by over 9 percent and British bank stock prices by over 25 percent. This decline has wiped out the net worth of many Wall Street brokerage houses and banks, leaving them with negative equity. The Brexit vote severely cripples and perhaps kills the eurozone and, happily, stymies trade agreements such as the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It throws the viability of NATO and American imperial designs in Eastern Europe and the Middle East into question. The British public’s repudiation of neoliberal economics also has the potential to upend the presidential elections. The Democratic Party will orchestrate a rescue of Wall Street if there is a call for a bailout. Donald Trump and the Republicans, by opposing a bailout, can ride popular revulsion to power....


I am sure the bankers will be well looked after. Meanwhile everything in Britain will be more than expensive due to the falling pound. Millions around the globe will see their pensions, RSP's take a hit. As always, in the end the poor will pay.

6079_Smith_W

NDPP wrote:

 A somewhat different take you took on the  'racism and xenophobic side' when the Nazi oligarchy was installed in Ukraine eh Smith? Blairism's Canadian variant is alive and thriving here in case nobody noticed by the way.

I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but do you really want to get into that? If you want some reminders, perhaps we should take it over there

As for "blairism" maybe we should our stories straight. The guy who is trying to call for Blair to be investigated is in the Remain side. And it is Boris Johnson who is calling for new free trade agreements.

 

cco

wage zombie wrote:

How self-aware do you think these Blairites are?  Do you think they know that they don't want a left-winger winning, or do you think that they are subconsciously just trying to protect their power and so they are fooling themselves into seeing Corbyn as impotent?

The most charitable interpretation I can give is that the Blairites think a Corbyn government would be so awful that the party would never form government again. This isn't the interpretation I actually subscribe to -- I think, as I said above, that they know exactly what they're doing and are afraid of an actual left-winger succeeding -- but it's at least slightly possible.

6079_Smith_W

Posted something. Couldn't find a corroborating source. It gets pulled until I do.

 

josh
alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I thought the EU was a disaster waiting to happen when it was conceived.

Break up the EU. Bring back the kroner,the marks,the francs and the lire. Give the countries their full independance again.

The only bright side is this gives a huge blow to the idea of a North American Union with Canada,the US and Mexico and a new currency,etc...

I wouldn't want the US and Mexico writing up our social and economical policies...er,any more than they already are,of course.

jjuares

cco wrote:
wage zombie wrote:

How self-aware do you think these Blairites are?  Do you think they know that they don't want a left-winger winning, or do you think that they are subconsciously just trying to protect their power and so they are fooling themselves into seeing Corbyn as impotent?

The most charitable interpretation I can give is that the Blairites think a Corbyn government would be so awful that the party would never form government again. This isn't the interpretation I actually subscribe to -- I think, as I said above, that they know exactly what they're doing and are afraid of an actual left-winger succeeding -- but it's at least slightly possible.


When a right wing social democrat sits as leader the left supports him/ her in the name of party unity. However, god forbid someone on the left actually becomes leader you can bet that the favour is not returned and the right makes the leader"s life miserable.

mark_alfred

epaulo13 wrote:

They Want Their Party Back

quote:

Both outcomes would be such a gross affront to the party's democracy that it is difficult to see how they could carry it off. This is clearly a scorched earth strategy, intended to destroy Labour’s electoral chances in the likely event that there is a snap election, by sinking it into a deadly internal battle.

Um, why do you have a link to "apple.com" in this post?  Specifically, the link anchor "Both outcomes would be such a gross affront to the party's democracy that it is difficult to see how they could carry it off," ends up being a link to apple.com.  What's with that?  Are these Blairites also Apple users

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

The real reason that Leave "won" is because of the anti-democratic decision to go with FPTP voting.

All those voters who might otherwise have marked Remain as their second choice had their will denied.

Left Turn Left Turn's picture

[url=https://ricochet.media/en/1251/is-another-europe-still-possible]Is another Europe still possible?[/url]

Quote:

Brexit, some optimists would say, can open the doors for the United Kingdom to become more democratic and practise greater social solidarity than it ever could under the aegis of the EU. The lack of support for the left indicates that the contrary is actually more probable: a domino effect in the rest of Europe, as other eurosceptic parties make gains, much to the joy of the Marine Le Pens of this world.

In the face of a rapidly disintegrating EU, can the European left make a case for viable reforms? Will it be able to capture the mood of those left behind by Europe? Or are we condemned to relive what happened in Central and Eastern Europe, as suggested by Czech political scientist Jaroslav Fiala?

After Brexit, is another Europe possible? Time is running out for progressives.

But for now, do as I do: exchange a few dollars for pound sterling and make yourself a good cup of tea. We are not out of the woods yet.

NorthReport

Welcome to the new world - just like the 100 year old world

Cameron condemns xenophobic and racist abuse after Brexit vote

PM says government ‘will not tolerate intolerance’ after reported spike in hate crimes and abuse after EU referendum

 

David Cameron has condemned “despicable” xenophobic abuse after the EU referendum as figures suggested a 57% increase in reported incidents.

The country would not stand for hate crime, the prime minister told MPs.

“In the past few days we have seen despicable graffiti daubed on a Polish community centre, we’ve seen verbal abuse hurled against individuals because they are members of ethnic minorities,” Cameron said.

“Let’s remember these people have come here and made a wonderful contribution to our country. We will not stand for hate crime or these kinds of attacks, they must be stamped out.”

Police believe there has been an increase in hate crimes and community tensions since last week’s referendum. Initial figures show an increase of 57% in reported incidents between Thursday and Sunday compared with the same days four weeks earlier, the National Police Chiefs’ Council said – 85 incidents were reported compared with 54 during the earlier period.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/27/sadiq-khan-muslim-counci...

NorthReport

This is now Project Betrayal – and we are all victims

The blame falls entirely on the Tories for this referendum – and on Boris Johnson for his despicable campaign. Did the voters take back control? No

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/27/project-betrayal-v...

iyraste1313

I am sure the bankers will be well looked after...

...this smacks of total complaceny and faith in a collapsing system....what with the USA Treasury nearing 20 trillion in debt?

With the global speculative community more than doubling its debt since 2008, and with a recession world wide with trillions of corporate junk bonds? 
No! such compacency is totally unwarranted....I´ve been watching the collapsing banking system for some time now...this latest is just the latest shock to a desperately panicky situation....banking leveraging is out of control...meaning serious cost saving and deflationary actions in the works...

Have people not been following the increasing bankster layoffs?

The banks are in big trouble....bail ins are in the cards...the final catalyst to mass bank runs

No! This time the system will run its natural course...chaos awaits us! 

Better be prepared! Politically of course!

NorthReport

German leaders furious at UK's reluctance to invoke Article 50

'The political parties, the political leaders, the commentators and a big, big majority of the people want this process to start yesterday'

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/article-50-brexit-eu-refe...

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