China

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kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Ah.  What's the "issue" du jour?

I thought it was how Chinese corporations work for the people?

I would have thought you'd be ecstatic to hear that (?!)

They exist for THE PEOPLE, kropotkin.

ed'd to ask:

1.  are Canadians actually emigrating to China, and if not, why not?  WWWTT has been making it clear for a while that China is totally awesome, and their government is totally awesome, and if their corporations work for the people then that's just gravy on the cake!

2.  I've never had the sense that you care for Canadian corporations -- you can say, if I got that wrong -- so isn't it at least tempting to move to China, where the corporations will work for YOU?  If you'd rather stay here and bemoan... well, why?  That's like saying "I don't want to move under that awning; I'd rather gripe about the rain", yes?

Magoo I do not agree with any of your stupid statements. I know, I know I just have to understand that in your world view any country not dominated by US banksters is a rogue nation and must be vilified.

Carry on with  your Cold War posts since you seem to be incapable of any other kind of thinking.

 

WWWTT

1.  are Canadians actually emigrating to China, and if not, why not? 

China just increased their family child limit from one to two. Our friends from Bei Hai in southern Guangxi province(fastest growing city in the world by the way) just gave birth to a daughter. Their second child. They now have a boy and girl. 

China isn’t looking for immigrants. Increasing the population isn’t an issue like in Canada or Australia and other countries. That says something in itself now doesn’t it!

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I know, I know I just have to understand that in your world view any country not dominated by US banksters is a rogue nation and must be vilified.

Have I actually said any such thing, tho?

If I google "site:rabble.ca magoo rogue nation" will I really get to read about all those countries that I think need to be dominated by "US banksters"?

Quote:
Carry on with  your Cold War posts since you seem to be incapable of any other kind of thinking.

OK.  And you carry on yammering about "Russophobia", which is just the cold war from the other point of view.

Quote:
China isn’t looking for immigrants. Increasing the population isn’t an issue like in Canada or Australia and other countries. That says something in itself now doesn’t it!

My question wasn't actually about China wanting population increase, it was about Canadians, who don't care for Canadian corporations trying to rob them, and whether they might rather live in a country in which the corporations work for the people!

I'm glad Chinese parents are free to have TWO children now, though.  The Chinese government is not just wise, but generous!  I yearn for the day that people unfortunate enough to live in a country other than China can similarly have a second child -- even if it's another girl!  Why can't all countries permit two children like China??

WWWTT

Actually your comment is a good example of trolling and baiting. 

You keep changing around “what it is you mean”

if I actually tried to answer your question, I would be just taking the bait you set. 

So let ma ask you this Mr. Magoo, how many Chinese people do you think chairman Mao killed?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
So let ma ask you this Mr. Magoo, how many Chinese people do you think chairman Mao killed?

With his own two hands?  I'll go with 'none'.

That's an old "Trivial Pursuit" strategy, though.  When the question is "how many... [whatever]" the answer probably isn't "twenty three" or "one hundred, forty eight" -- it's probably either "zero" or "all of them".  Those are the best guesses, anyway.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
I know, I know I just have to understand that in your world view any country not dominated by US banksters is a rogue nation and must be vilified.

Have I actually said any such thing, tho?

When have you ever posted anything that was not obtuse and subject to change when anyone calls you on its implied contents? Your style is boring, repetitive and annoying but not really all that hard to see through. I just have to call you on it sometimes because it is just so f'ing constantly discussion killing.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I just have to call you on it sometimes because it is just so f'ing constantly discussion killing.

Then discuss around it.  Think of my posts as an ad, and ignore them like you would an ad.  Don't be fragile if you want to change the world.

Jeez, Louise.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

LMAOFROF Thanks Magoo your response made my day. I love it when people prove my point.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

I didn't prove your point.  You proved it yourself by typing "LMAOFROF" -- that makes it clear to all that you must have bested me in rhetorical combat or whatever.  It's the Royal Flush of discussion boards.

Anyway... slow day??

WWWTT

I didn't prove your point.  You proved it yourself by typing "LMAOFROF" --

ya actually you did, and you’re proving his point again because what you’re writing makes no sense. 

Just like when I asked you how many people chairman Mao killed. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
ya actually you did, and you’re proving his point again because what you’re writing makes no sense.

It makes sense, WWWTT.  You just don't agree with it, and that's not the same.

Quote:
Just like when I asked you how many people chairman Mao killed.

And now that you mention it, I'm still waiting on your authoritative answer.  Allow me to guess again:  he killed a million, but Xi Jinping brought them all back to life, and now they're prosperous and happy.

His statue isn't going to carve itself, WWWTT.  Back to work!

WWWTT

It makes sense, WWWTT.  You just don't agree with it, and that's not the same.

lol! You would think that if someone didn’t agree with something, then they would just say “hey I don’t agree with what you’re writing”. But I gues that’s just too easy? Or or or, like kopotkin mentioned earlier, your just playing your games again. 

And now that you mention it, I'm still waiting on your authoritative answer.

The only thing you’re waiting for is the next opportunity to say I’m carving a statue of Xi Jin Ping. After all that’s the only reason you come to this thread. 

I find it kind of funny that there’s Europe descended people that are so jealous and envious of a non European or European descent country of communist China. You have spun this one around so many times that you’ve actually developed your writing style here on babble in this China thread. At least the dark side of your style anyways. 

NDPP

Sick & Tired of US Foreign Policy, Germany is Pushed into the Open Arms of China

https://on.rt.com/962d

"Germany has had enough of American foreign policy. Angela Merkel's visits to Russia and China are a testament to that..."

NDPP

"US goal in Korea is to maintain its military presence and if possible transform DPRK into an extension of its economic/military posture. US decades-long goal is to encircle/contain/conquer China - not promote peace and stability."

https://twitter.com/LandDestroyer/status/999741170849738752

NDPP

President of Russia Interview with China Media Group

http://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/57684

"... Russia and China are neighbours. We have been interacting for centuries and our historical ties and roots go very deep. It is not by chance that in recent decades as neighbors, we have built a relationship that probably cannot be compared with anything in the world. It is truly built on consideration of each other's interests.

He [President Xi] is a very accessible and sincere person. But at the same time he is a very reliable partner. I look forward to good positive relations.

We are not surprised by any restrictions or sanctions. This does not frighten us and will never force us to abandon our independent, sovereign path of development. I believe Russia will be sovereign, or it will not exist at all. And, of course, the Russian people will always choose the first. I think the Chinese people feel the same."

Sean in Ottawa

I think there are some opportunities being missed with China. The Chinese governement is of the opinion that a prosperous middle income group is essential to stability in the country and is bringing its industrial policy in line with higher wages. Many of its interests are more aligned with developed countries than they have been previously.

There was an opportunity to change the direction with Russia 20 years ago and I think this was blown. I beleive there is an opportunity now with China. Shutting out China will create a nationalism and aggression from that government that might be avoided if a different path were to be taken now. Part of the problem here is that the western allies cannot simply address these countries by denying all their security concerns and economic ambitions. Before this gets to a severe stage these could be moderated -- especially where they can be seen to be responses to provocations and aggression from those western allies.

NorthReport

Interesting perspective on why North Korea regime cannot be allowed to collapse

https://www.straight.com/article-224171/gwynne-dyer-china-still-haunted-spectre-tienanmen-square

Sorry article is a bit dated 

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

2009? Kim Jong Il? wtf?

NDPP

China Pledges $20 Billion in Loans to Middle East and Aid For Palestine

https://on.rt.com/99ow

"Beijing has prepared a package of $20 billion in loans and about $106 million in financial aid, for Middle East nations, including Palestine, Reuters reports. China has traditionally played a small role in the Middle East, but has recently been increasing its influence..."

NorthReport
Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

Tom Dispatch has a long, interesting article up by the historian Alfred McCoy. In it, he reflects on the likelihood of China becoming the next global hegemon, a process immeasurably aided by the utter incompetence of Trump.

Alfred McCoy wrote:

China’s bid couldn’t have been more fortuitous in its timing. After nearly 70 years as the globe’s hegemon, Washington’s dominance over the world economy had begun to wither and its once-superior work force to lose its competitive edge. By 2016, in fact, the dislocations brought on by the economic globalization that had gone with American dominion sparked a revolt of the dispossessed in democracies worldwide and in the American heartland, bringing the self-proclaimed “populist” Donald Trump to power. Determined to check his country’s decline, he has adopted an aggressive and divisive foreign policy that has roiled long-established alliances in both Asia and Europe and is undoubtedly giving that decline new impetus.

Within months of Trump’s entry into the Oval Office, the world was already witnessing a sharp rivalry between Xi’s advocacy of a new form of global collaboration and Trump’s version of economic nationalism. In the process, humanity seems to be entering a rare historical moment when national leadership and global circumstances have coincided to create an opening for a major shift in the nature of the world order.

NorthReport

An interesting overview of the internal changes that China has been experiencing 

https://www.theguardian.com/news/2018/sep/06/human-impulses-run-riot-chinas-shocking-pace-of-change

NDPP

Yellow Scare is Back: America's New China Strategy (and podcast)

https://sptnkne.ws/jGwg

"Vice President Mike Pence gave a high profile, hardline speech at the Hudson Institute today that China is the world's greatest military and economic threat, and he risks inflaming an already delicate relationship. In a speech that set a new tone in bilateral relations and seeks to confront China directly, Pence argues that Beijing is a hostile military power to both the US and regional countries and that the Chinese government has meddled in US elections and will do so again. Pence also argued that China's strong economy is a threat to global financial stability..."

Sean in Ottawa

NDPP wrote:

Yellow Scare is Back: America's New China Strategy (and podcast)

https://sptnkne.ws/jGwg

"Vice President Mike Pence gave a high profile, hardline speech at the Hudson Institute today that China is the world's greatest military and economic threat, and he risks inflaming an already delicate relationship. In a speech that set a new tone in bilateral relations and seeks to confront China directly, Pence argues that Beijing is a hostile military power to both the US and regional countries and that the Chinese government has meddled in US elections and will do so again. Pence also argued that China's strong economy is a threat to global financial stability..."

Both China and Russia are dangerous to the US. It did not have to be that way.

In many respects both countries have become more hostile to the US as that country has become more hostile to them.

I think Putin is pretty bad. But I think the US has been a significant contributor to his consolidation of power.  There was a window for Russia to be more open to countries that are now rivals. In many ways it was their hostility that made the current situation inevitable and made the stranglehold he has on that country a reality.

In China it is also true. China has become more extreme and hostile to the world as the world has increasingly been that way to them.

In both cases a reading of history would be helpful.

Russia learned that invaders come from the west. There was a window during which time NATO could have been reformed and Russia a part of that alliance and a relationship for Russia and Europe. Ukraine has also been caught in this: by being accepted while Russia was rejected, fuel was poured on their divisions.

Most North Americans don't know history. The Chinese do study their recent history. They are well aware of what Europe and the US has done to them. This is a country humiliated less than two hundred years ago by the treaty ports as each country participated in a gang-mugging of China. This is a country that will become more dangerous to the US with every bit of hostility and aggression they see coming from the US.

NDPP

Chinese President Tells Military to Prepare For War

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/10/30/chin-o30.html

"In another sign of rapidly rising US-China tensions and the danger of conflict, President Xi Jinping has told his country to prepare for war. His speech last Thursday to the PLA , Southern Theatre Command was a response to the Trump administration's aggressive actions ot just in an intensifying trade war, but overtly readying for military conflict with both China and Russia..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

He was inspecting the troops, not commanding them.

As usual, wsws wants to try to puff that up into Xi sounding the klaxon or something.

NDPP

'Prepare For War', Xi Jinping Tells Military Region That Monitors South China Sea, Taiwan

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/military/article/2170452/prepare-war-xi-...

"It's necessary, to strengthen the mission...concentrate preparations for fighting a war,' Xi said."

 

Battle-Ready Beijing: China Prepares For War as Tensions with US Rising 

https://youtu.be/PnKTtcuNJXo

ps I can't help but notice Magoo, that you and the other members of your little band of right-leftouts never take issue with anything in the WaPo or NYT or Guardian, the worst purveyors of toxic lies and establishment propaganda - fuck even loony Louise Mensch passes muster with you rednecks. No wonder your heads are so full of msm establishment shit and confusion.

NDPP

Given the increased official animus towards China by USA, expect an uptick in Sinophobic propaganda offered up to us by the usual corporate media. And expect also, just as in the case of the western propaganda offensive of several years now against Russia, that many will swallow the toxic shit unquestioningly and anyone who questions it will become a target.

WWWTT

NDPP wrote

ps I can't help but notice Magoo, that you and the other members of your little band of right-leftouts never take issue with anything in the WaPo or NYT or Guardian, the worst purveyors of toxic lies and establishment propaganda

You forgot one NDPP, democracy now, the worst one of them all! There’s one poster here on babble that keeps posting links to these faux left wing very pro war imperialism so called independent news outlet. democracy now is pure garbage.

WWWTT

I’m sure everyone here has heard about the US “perpetual war”. Another thing I’ve noticed is the US propaganda always needs a perpetual enemy.  The US can never go more than a few years without having an enemy the media can use to always rant about and try to scare the public with.  

Russia was recently resurrected from the closet after a good dusting off as the new enemy meddling in US elections (more like a big waste of time coin toss). 

Is China the new enemy we’re all supposed to be afraid about now?

voice of the damned

NDPP wrote:

Yellow Scare is Back: America's New China Strategy (and podcast)

https://sptnkne.ws/jGwg

Haha! Freakin' Sputnik is accusing OTHER people of whipping up racial panic?  

https://tinyurl.com/yalzxam2

https://tinyurl.com/y8nltwjv

 

 

 

 

voice of the damned

WWWTT wrote:
You forgot one NDPP, democracy now, the worst one of them all!

It's a bit more than just one poster. Babble, as an institution, regularly publishes the writings of Amy Goodman, the host of Democracy Now.

Which kind of makes me wonder what you're doing on this site. Not that I want you to leave, but coming to babble and telling everyone that Democracy Now is the worst media outlet in existence is a little like eating at McDonalds every day, and telling everyone around you how horrible french fries are.

WWWTT

French fries are bad for you? Maybe a bad comparison since I like fries once and a while.

I know very well that Rabble publishes stuff I disagree with. Didn't know about the relationship between Amy Goodman and Rabble. This makes things a little more problomatic. From some quick reading, Amy is an environmental activist. Also know from reading that Democracy Now has a pro warish liberalish agenda.

This circumstance is like when the NDP supported Libya bombings. Are we to shut our mouths up when the NDP starts acting like imperialists? I regret nothing I've written. In fact, this site needs NDPP and WWWTT to remind everyone that we're not all in a group hug on the same page.

Mobo2000

This site needs NDPP and WWWTT for lots of reasons.   I'm very glad you both are here and regularly posting.   I feel the same about lots of other babblers, even ones I regularly disagree with.   I appreciate there is a wide range of opinion here, and that the tone of the discussion has gotten more respectful over the past year.   No group hugs necessary!

MegB

Mobo2000 wrote:

I appreciate there is a wide range of opinion here, and that the tone of the discussion has gotten more respectful over the past year. 

It has. In the early pre-Facebook years it was a mess and we lost important voices to the general mayhem and bare knuckle fighting that was the mainstay of babble. We try to maintain a balance of progressive perspectives and not everyone will pass the purity test some set out. It would be a pretty boring place if we all agreed all the time.

voice of the damned

And just to reiterate, I was not in any way, shape or form calling for WWWTT to leave babble. I just thought it was kind of odd that someone who thinks that Democracy Now is "the worst...purveyor[ ] of toxic lies and establishment propaganda" would find rabble an amicable venue to frequent.

Admittedly, if rabble decided that they were going to partner with, say, Sputnik News(showcased above), I would probably stick around the forums, due to the ongoing connections I've established with various posters and discussions. My opinion of the site would pretty much go into the shitter, mind you.

NDPP

Canada's Engagement With East Asia: Report of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development -- Michael Levitt, Chair

https://ourcommons.ca/DocumentViewer/en/42-1/FAAE/report-20

"...The Government of Canada should pursue a strategy that blends law enforcement and intelligence approaches with targeted development assistance in order to increase its engagement on counter-terrorism with partner countries in East Asia.'

'Canada's economic relationship with China is critical to Canada's long-term prosperity. As Canada seeks to diversify its eonomic relations away from an over reliance on the North American market maintaining and increasing two-way trade and investment with China offers opportunities on a scale not available elsewhere. The Committee is of the view that economic relations with China are a necessity and should be a key priority not only for Canada's foreign policy in East Asia but globally.'

'As James Boutiler noted, Canada is 'trapped between a commitment to liberal values and the practicalities of forging economic relationships with increasingly unsavoury policies in Asia..."

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

This seems a bit Big Brotherish.

Bloomberg News wrote:

China’s plan to judge each of its 1.3 billion people based on their social behavior is moving a step closer to reality, with Beijing set to adopt a lifelong points program by 2021 that assigns personalized ratings for each resident.

The capital city will pool data from several departments to reward and punish some 22 million citizens based on their actions and reputations by the end of 2020, according to a plan posted on the Beijing municipal government’s website on Monday. Those with better so-called social credit will get “green channel” benefits while those who violate laws will find life more difficult.

The Beijing project will improve blacklist systems so that those deemed untrustworthy will be “unable to move even a single step,” according to the government’s plan. Xinhua reported on the proposal Tuesday, while the report posted on the municipal government’s website is dated July 18.

NorthReport

Pressure mounts for Canada to push back against China in largely one-sided feud

Two former ambassadors and Andrew Scheer are among those calling on the Liberal government to abandon its non-confrontational approach and take stiffer action

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/pressure-mounts-for-canada-to-push-back-against-china-in-largely-one-sided-feud

NorthReport

 

Pressure mounts for Canada to push back against China in largely one-sided feud

Two former ambassadors and Andrew Scheer are among those calling on the Liberal government to abandon its non-confrontational approach and take stiffer action

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/pressure-mounts-for-canada-to-push-back-against-china-in-largely-one-sided-feud

Sean in Ottawa

This pressure seems to be skipping over what Canada should be doing.

The Trudeau government has been pathetic with diplomacy towards China. It has insulted it time and again including just last week confusing it with Japan. Trudeau has not spoken respectfully to China throughout this or shown any tact, understanding or any public efforts to put the Canadian position in a good way.

Without having tried this, Canada trying to out muscle much larger China is arrogant and stupid and will have nothing but negative effect.

Certainly Canada could consider AFTER good diplomacy, sending messages in other ways but not before.

It does not help that Canada has tried diplomacy with the US -- not always good but certainly better and more of it. Canada is not standing up at all to the US.

I think Canada should stand up a bit to the US and explain respectfully its position to the Chinese at the highest levels -- meaning the PM to get involved directly and even go there if he can.

China has been trying to get Canada's attention and the PM is rebuffing them.

NorthReport
NorthReport

On and on it goes. Where it stops nobody knows!

https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.5119333

 

NorthReport

.

 

NorthReport

Many Canadians do not realize what they are dealing with when it comes to economic trade with China. Unless Canadian negotiators are extremely firm in their economic dealings with their Chines counterparts the Canadians will be crushed.  Do some research on a Chinese company called HD Mining that operates or has operated in Canada and you will get my drift. 

NorthReport

It's about time. Let's get moving on this.

Canada calls on U.S. to take action in China dispute

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-calls-on-u-s-to-take-action-in-china-dispute-source-1.4409265

WWWTT

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

This pressure seems to be skipping over what Canada should be doing.

The Trudeau government has been pathetic with diplomacy towards China. It has insulted it time and again including just last week confusing it with Japan. Trudeau has not spoken respectfully to China throughout this or shown any tact, understanding or any public efforts to put the Canadian position in a good way.

Without having tried this, Canada trying to out muscle much larger China is arrogant and stupid and will have nothing but negative effect.

Certainly Canada could consider AFTER good diplomacy, sending messages in other ways but not before.

It does not help that Canada has tried diplomacy with the US -- not always good but certainly better and more of it. Canada is not standing up at all to the US.

I think Canada should stand up a bit to the US and explain respectfully its position to the Chinese at the highest levels -- meaning the PM to get involved directly and even go there if he can.

China has been trying to get Canada's attention and the PM is rebuffing them.

agreed

NDPP

The New York Times And its Uyghur 'Activist'

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/05/09/uygh-m09.html

"...The US has longstanding ties to right-wing separatist organizations based on Chinese minorities - Tibetans as well as the Uyghurs - that it helped to create, fund and in some cases arm. As the US, first under President Obama and now under Trump, has escalated its diplomatic, economic and military confrontation with China, the 'human rights' of Uyghurs has been increasingly brought to the fore.

Washington's aim, at the very least, is to foment separatist opposition in Xinjiang, which is a crucial source of Chinese energy and raw materials as well as being pivotal to its key Belt and Road Initiative to integrate China more closely with Eurasia. Such unrest would not only weaken China but could lead to a bloody war and the fracturing of the country. Uyghur separatists, who trained in the US network of Islamist terrorist groups in Syria, openly told Radio Free Asia last year of their intention to return to China and wage an armed insurgency. 

The NYT is completely in tune with the aims behind these intrigues - a fact which is confirmed by its promotion of Uyghur 'activist' Rushan Abbas. She is a key figure in the Uyghur organizations that the US has supported and funded..."

NorthReport

HD Mining anyone?

The Sprout: Rising tensions

“I think one of the things we see increasingly around the world is that the Chinese government is not following the same kinds of rules and principles that the large majority of democracies follow in regards to rules-based order, in regards to international relations,” Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said during a media appearance in Paris on Thursday

https://ipolitics.ca/2019/05/16/the-sprout-rising-tensions/

NorthReport

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