Easy to be pro-China here. Enough already!

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NorthReport
Easy to be pro-China here. Enough already!

Canada suspends travel to China for local staff at Hong Kong consulate

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5800351/canada-hong-kong-travel-suspension/

voice of the damned

I don't care what anyone wants to  say for or against China, but can't these topics all be kept to one thread, maybe two, tops?

bekayne

voice of the damned wrote:

I don't care what anyone wants to  say for or against China, but can't these topics all be kept to one thread, maybe two, tops?

Another day, another China thread. Enough already!

NorthReport

A few minutes ago there were no china threads as you both well know

 

NorthReport

The China Fantasy: How Our Leaders Explain Away Chinese Repression

 

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/134959.The_China_Fantasy

NorthReport
NorthReport

 

Bail out of China while you can, eh!

China’s enormous debt ‘no longer can be ignored,’ analyst says

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/chinas-debt-levels-amid-its-slowing-economy.html

NorthReport

Let freedom reign!

With lights twinkling, a human chain in Hong Kong renews protests

 

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-with-lights-twinkling-a-human-chain-in-hong-kong-renews-protests/

NorthReport

I could not agree more!

- from today's Province letters to the editor

 

Easy to be pro-China here

It's very easy for the "one-China" protestors to speak out when they are safe in Canada, and not under the insidious takeover of the machinations of the oppressive Chinese government.

They aren't facing arbitary detention or imprisonment. They also don't face the uncontrolled brutality of the Chinese police.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

They aren't facing arbitary detention or imprisonment. They also don't face the uncontrolled brutality of the Chinese police.

In Canada the people who face those things are not settlers of any ethnicity. It is indigenous people who feel that kind of iron fist when they protest the theft of their lands by governments beholding to the oil and gas industry.

 

NorthReport

krop,

Your race to the bottom helps no one.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Canada suspends travel to China for local staff at Hong Kong consulate

 

https://globalnews.ca/news/5800351/canada-hong-kong-travel-suspension/

Nobody is actually "anti-China".   Critique of the Chinese government is not opposition to China as a country.  Nor is it a refusal to acknowledge the damaging effects of Western imperialism on the people of China, OR support for the imposition of Western-style "liberal democracy" upon China.   

And threads which are started simply to pass on a "slogan of the day" are of little use in any discussion.

NorthReport

What about the Canadians, eh!

I hope Trump sends Ms Meng to the slammer and throws away the key

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/24/uk-consulate-worker-hong-kong-simon-cheng-detained-in-china-is-freed

NorthReport

How should Canada approach it’s ‘China’ problem

or 

How to deal with a bully!

https://thediplomat.com/2019/08/how-should-canada-approach-its-china-problem/

NorthReport
swallow swallow's picture

NorthReport wrote:

What about the Canadians, eh!

I hope Trump sends Ms Meng to the slammer and throws away the key

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/24/uk-consulate-worker-hong-kong-simon-cheng-detained-in-china-is-freed

Why do you hope Trump sends Meng to jail? She has not committed a crime. 

She, and the Canadians imprisoned in China, should be freed.

NorthReport

As far as I know Trump doesn't send anyone to jail but I was contrasting Ms Meng's rich person's treatment compared to what is secretly happening to Canadians in China which is outrageous.

Maybe the USA will adopt a Chinese justice, or rather a lack of justice, system now, eh!

swallow wrote:

NorthReport wrote:

What about the Canadians, eh!

I hope Trump sends Ms Meng to the slammer and throws away the key

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/24/uk-consulate-worker-hong-kong-simon-cheng-detained-in-china-is-freed

Why do you hope Trump sends Meng to jail? She has not committed a crime. 

She, and the Canadians imprisoned in China, should be freed.

NorthReport

Let’s join forces witb some more our size countries and completely stop trading with China

And start booting these pro-China so-called protestors out

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEJVNU6VNcZfxXqDtfGUQ8QYqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqeP_CjDdg_oCMMTh6QU?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

So North Report where are you and your ancestors from and when are you going back.

I can see you believe in the Canadian Charter right to Freedom of Expression except for people who are pro-China. Interesting take on freedom and democracy.

NorthReport

Krop

Unlike  you I have no problem criticizing China nor do I have problems criticizing Canada however this thread is about China as you well know

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3024261/china-steps-its-presence-russias-former-central-asian-backyard

NorthReport

What are they doing here if they don’t like democracy?

The thread title unfortunately nails it

https://thebreaker.news/business/china-ad-vandalized/

NorthReport
NorthReport
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Canadian media fires Chinese Canadian reporter for not being anti-China. That is the core principal that people fight for when they fight for freedom of expression.

NorthReport

What you meant to say is an anti-democratic pro Chinese government reporter under the protection of Canada’s democracy and freedoms attacks others who want the same freedoms and security 

NorthReport
NorthReport
NDPP

Try this in any American or Canadian city and see what happens...

Watch:

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1165490546883715074

NorthReport

Carrie Lam is just a puppet for the thugs running China. She is useless and needs to step down.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGYABboYXcMXbPHb8MngqpsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqeP_CjDdg_oCMOXg6QU?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Carrie Lam is just a puppet for the thugs running China. She is useless and needs to step down.

https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEGYABboYXcMXbPHb8MngqpsqGQgEKhAIACoHCAowqeP_CjDdg_oCMOXg6QU?hl=en-CA&gl=CA&ceid=CA%3Aen

This article does not say that nor deal with that subject matter. It is a fairly balanced take on the protests and the two sides of the debate.

North Report we get that you hate anything that is not sanctioned by the Washington Post and NY Times. Your posts that only have fake headers are becoming a form of trolling on behalf of the imperial empire. You sir are a brainwashed North American who thinks our system is better than anything else on the planet. I feel sorry for you that you are so indoctrinated that you are not able to avail yourself of the ample opportunity's you have on this board to read and expand your basic understanding of the complex world of international politics.

NorthReport

No kidding!

How China’s repression playbook backfired in Hong Kong

Beijing tried to repress Hong Kong the way it represses the mainland. It backfired.

 

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/8/29/20835183/hong-kong-protests-china-repression-tiananmen-square-beijing-response

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

The legislation would, in essence, link Hong Kong’s judicial system with China’s, allowing the Chinese Communist Party to seize political dissidents there and effectively ending Hong Kong’s tradition of a free and independent judiciary.

This is just bullshit propaganda. Hong Kong's tradition of a free and independent judiciary? They were a colony of the UK with its court system and the Governor was always an appointed English white man who usually wasn't even from Hong Kong.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

North, before you post more about China, please understand a few things:

1) One of the things Chinese people, in and out of government, are most touchy about is the legacy of Western imperialism and meddling in China, and the arrogant Western assumption that the political and economic leaders of "the West"-as well as those who identify with their viewpoint, such as yourself- is entitled to lecture China about democracy and human rights and to do so from a standpoint of inherent moral superiority.  This is why it is imperative to reject the idea that "the West" is the gold standard on any of those issues, and to avoid, if one is to support human rights and democratization campaigns on the terms of the people of those countries who start them, ever endorsing ANY Western efforts to subvert or co-op oppositional movements for "the West's" own purposes.  ALL existing states need radical social, political, and econoimc change, not China and Russia alone with "the West" being presented as the world's "betters".  When people in "the West" single out China and Russia on this, we can actually have the effect of undermining dissidents in those countries, and that is something we should never, under any circumstances do.  If people in "the West" give the Chinese and Russian governments the chance to label dissidents as lackeys of Western imperialism, we are essentially signing their death warrants.

2) If you are going to support democratization in China or Russia-both of which are legitimate causes ot support, if supported on the terms of the Chinese or Russian democracy movement organizers and not on anyone else's terms-you need to be speaking out, with equal passion and relentlessness, for radical change in "the West".  I thought I had been doing that, but it seems that I actually hadn't, and I don't want you to repeat my mistakes on that.   "The West"  needs as much change as anyplace else, after all.

3) Whatever degree of freedom and democracy that exists in any Western society exists, not out of anything intrinsic to "the West", but was forced ON the West from below, by heroic dissenters and courageous activist movements which were vilified as a threat to the existing order in every country where they functioned.  If there is any freedom in "the West", it is in SPITE of its leaders and its existing political, social, and economic structures, and whatever freedoms we thought we could count on in "the West" are now under moral threat from racism, fascism, nationalism, and the social traumas caused by unrelenting economic austerity.   This is another reason that, while it is legitimate to carefully support democracy activists on their own term, it is necessary to be wise and tactful in how that is done.

 

NorthReport
NorthReport
NDPP

Nothing like the good ole Graun for keeping us up to snuff and informed on the latest machinations of the evil Chinese commies, or 'the rat-faced Russian dictator', Ukraine's 'revolution of dignity',  'the rapist' Julian Assange who helped Putin put his puppet Trump  in the White House and more! No wonder  babblers are so damned savy and progressive!

Mobo2000

Well said on post 33 Ken, especially agree with point 3.

NorthReport
NorthReport
kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Every rally I have every gone to has had right wing assholes call it a rent-a-crowd. We put tens of thousands on the steps of our legislature and that is what the politicos said about us.

Your views North Report are supported by most right wing imperialists both here and abroad.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

2) If you are going to support democratization in China or Russia-both of which are legitimate causes ot support, if supported on the terms of the Chinese or Russian democracy movement organizers and not on anyone else's terms-you need to be speaking out, with equal passion and relentlessness, for radical change in "the West".

3) Whatever degree of freedom and democracy that exists in any Western society exists, not out of anything intrinsic to "the West", but was forced ON the West from below, by heroic dissenters and courageous activist movements which were vilified as a threat to the existing order in every country where they functioned.  If there is any freedom in "the West", it is in SPITE of its leaders and its existing political, social, and economic structures, and whatever freedoms we thought we could count on in "the West" are now under moral threat from racism, fascism, nationalism, and the social traumas caused by unrelenting economic austerity.   This is another reason that, while it is legitimate to carefully support democracy activists on their own term, it is necessary to be wise and tactful in how that is done.

Thanks Ken, well said.

laine lowe laine lowe's picture

Bravo Ken! You really did spell it out perfectly.

 

NorthReport
NorthReport
NorthReport
Unionist

Ken Burch wrote:

1) One of the things Chinese people, in and out of government, are most touchy about is the legacy of Western imperialism and meddling in China, and the arrogant Western assumption that the political and economic leaders of "the West"-as well as those who identify with their viewpoint, such as yourself- is entitled to lecture China about democracy and human rights and to do so from a standpoint of inherent moral superiority.  This is why it is imperative to reject the idea that "the West" is the gold standard on any of those issues, and to avoid, if one is to support human rights and democratization campaigns on the terms of the people of those countries who start them, ever endorsing ANY Western efforts to subvert or co-op oppositional movements for "the West's" own purposes.  ALL existing states need radical social, political, and econoimc change, not China and Russia alone with "the West" being presented as the world's "betters".  When people in "the West" single out China and Russia on this, we can actually have the effect of undermining dissidents in those countries, and that is something we should never, under any circumstances do.  If people in "the West" give the Chinese and Russian governments the chance to label dissidents as lackeys of Western imperialism, we are essentially signing their death warrants.

2) If you are going to support democratization in China or Russia-both of which are legitimate causes ot support, if supported on the terms of the Chinese or Russian democracy movement organizers and not on anyone else's terms-you need to be speaking out, with equal passion and relentlessness, for radical change in "the West".  I thought I had been doing that, but it seems that I actually hadn't, and I don't want you to repeat my mistakes on that.   "The West"  needs as much change as anyplace else, after all.

3) Whatever degree of freedom and democracy that exists in any Western society exists, not out of anything intrinsic to "the West", but was forced ON the West from below, by heroic dissenters and courageous activist movements which were vilified as a threat to the existing order in every country where they functioned.  If there is any freedom in "the West", it is in SPITE of its leaders and its existing political, social, and economic structures, and whatever freedoms we thought we could count on in "the West" are now under moral threat from racism, fascism, nationalism, and the social traumas caused by unrelenting economic austerity.   This is another reason that, while it is legitimate to carefully support democracy activists on their own term, it is necessary to be wise and tactful in how that is done.

You nailed it, my friend. Thank you.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Unionist wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

1) One of the things Chinese people, in and out of government, are most touchy about is the legacy of Western imperialism and meddling in China, and the arrogant Western assumption that the political and economic leaders of "the West"-as well as those who identify with their viewpoint, such as yourself- is entitled to lecture China about democracy and human rights and to do so from a standpoint of inherent moral superiority.  This is why it is imperative to reject the idea that "the West" is the gold standard on any of those issues, and to avoid, if one is to support human rights and democratization campaigns on the terms of the people of those countries who start them, ever endorsing ANY Western efforts to subvert or co-op oppositional movements for "the West's" own purposes.  ALL existing states need radical social, political, and econoimc change, not China and Russia alone with "the West" being presented as the world's "betters".  When people in "the West" single out China and Russia on this, we can actually have the effect of undermining dissidents in those countries, and that is something we should never, under any circumstances do.  If people in "the West" give the Chinese and Russian governments the chance to label dissidents as lackeys of Western imperialism, we are essentially signing their death warrants.

2) If you are going to support democratization in China or Russia-both of which are legitimate causes ot support, if supported on the terms of the Chinese or Russian democracy movement organizers and not on anyone else's terms-you need to be speaking out, with equal passion and relentlessness, for radical change in "the West".  I thought I had been doing that, but it seems that I actually hadn't, and I don't want you to repeat my mistakes on that.   "The West"  needs as much change as anyplace else, after all.

3) Whatever degree of freedom and democracy that exists in any Western society exists, not out of anything intrinsic to "the West", but was forced ON the West from below, by heroic dissenters and courageous activist movements which were vilified as a threat to the existing order in every country where they functioned.  If there is any freedom in "the West", it is in SPITE of its leaders and its existing political, social, and economic structures, and whatever freedoms we thought we could count on in "the West" are now under moral threat from racism, fascism, nationalism, and the social traumas caused by unrelenting economic austerity.   This is another reason that, while it is legitimate to carefully support democracy activists on their own term, it is necessary to be wise and tactful in how that is done.

You nailed it, my friend. Thank you.

You are welcome.  This is what I have always believed on these issues.  My assumption had been that people knew my views well enough to be aware of that, but apparently I hadn't communicated all of this well enough.  Apologies for not having expressed all of that fully enough in the past.

The positions I take on this are reflective of my presence on the internationalist, anti-authoritarian libertarian socialist left-it's horrifying that I expressed myself unclearly enough to make anyone think that I've somehow turned into a right-wing "anticommunist" social democrat at this stage of my life.

 

Red Winnipeg

kropotkin1951 wrote:

So North Report where are you and your ancestors from and when are you going back.

I can see you believe in the Canadian Charter right to Freedom of Expression except for people who are pro-China. Interesting take on freedom and democracy.

Wait. You are PRO-China??

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Red Winnipeg wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

So North Report where are you and your ancestors from and when are you going back.

I can see you believe in the Canadian Charter right to Freedom of Expression except for people who are pro-China. Interesting take on freedom and democracy.

Wait. You are PRO-China??

I am a deep sleeper agent for the CPC. I spent 17 years on this board waiting for them to activate me and finally the moment has come.

Unionist

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Red Winnipeg wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

So North Report where are you and your ancestors from and when are you going back.

I can see you believe in the Canadian Charter right to Freedom of Expression except for people who are pro-China. Interesting take on freedom and democracy.

Wait. You are PRO-China??

I am a deep sleeper agent for the CPC. I spent 17 years on this board waiting for them to activate me and finally the moment has come.

WHAT??? Who authorized you to self-disclose? Did you miss the latest memo? We only sent out 2 of the 3 trigger keys. You've now officially blown a lengthy and expensive mission. Honestly, the "talent" they're sending us these days... You leave us with no option but to invoke the [secret] China-Canada Extradition Treaty and have you shipped home for, um, reassignment. Please confirm receipt in the usual fashion. If you can remember it.

Bec.De.Corbin Bec.De.Corbin's picture

"Too little, to late" I really hope they don't go down that rabbit hole... the military will fuck them up in the end if they keep at it.

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