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NDPP

'Situation Unseen In Decades' (and vid)

https://on.rt.com/8so3

"German president on failed coalition talks..."

NorthReport

Who does a better job of delivering  Fake News: the Russians or Donald Trump

Cody87

NorthReport wrote:

Who does a better job of delivering  Fake News: the Russians or Donald Trump

Is this in reference to NDPP's article from RT on Merkel's failed coalition talks?

Are one of these sources good enough?

https://globalnews.ca/news/3870022/germany-angela-merkel-coalition-colla...

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/angela-merkel-s-rule-doubt-german-coa...

http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/11/20/germany-merkel-coalition-coll...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/germany-coalition-talks-fail-angela-merkel-...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/collapse-of-german-coalition...

I'm not quite sure that fake news means what you think it means. If you keep overusing the term, you may find it doesn't have quite the impact you'll need it to when real fake news comes along.

NDPP

US Neocon Wars Open Pandora's Box in Europe

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/11/28/us-neocon-wars-open-pandoras-box...

"The dreaded scourge of instability has now reached the heart of the empire..."

NorthReport

Germany's Social Democrats OK talks on a new Merkel govt

http://nationalpost.com/pmn/news-pmn/german-social-democrats-mull-talks-...

NorthReport
josh

This Sunday, 600 Social Democratic Party delegates will vote on whether to go ahead with coalition talks. A no vote could send Germans back to elections, potentially signal the political demise of Ms. Merkel, and portend months more uncertainty. Even a yes vote would be no guarantee: Any final coalition agreement will also need the approval of a majority of party members.

For the Social Democrats, the issue is not tactical, however. It is existential.

. . . .

Having rallied behind the neoliberal policies of their center-right rivals for the past two decades, center-left parties have been obliterated from the Netherlands to Poland. But it is the example of Austria that comes up most: There, a longstanding coalition between conservatives and Social Democrats recently gave way to a coalition of the conservatives with the far right.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/19/world/europe/angela-merkel-germany-spd.html?smid=tw-share

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

If they go into coalition with Merkel, they will never again have a distinct identity and will never again win an election in Germany.  The AfD will be, in effect, the official opposition and that can't lead to anything but the AfD perpetually gaining in support.

At this stage, I'd say the only hope for any part of the Left in Germany surviving would be for both SPD and Die Linke to dissolve and a new Left party to be formed whose policies would reflect anti-austerity Occupy values, while avoiding any connection to either the right-wing SPD tradition of Gerhard Schroeder or Helmut Schmidt(neither of whom should ever have been in the SPD) OR any part of the GDR past(I suggest this because Die Linke is held back by its refusal to expel the tiny, powerless, irrelevant faction within it who came out of the SED and are nostalgic for the pointless repression of the Warsaw Pact era).  
 

 

 

josh
Rev Pesky

Welcome to the world of proportional representation.

6079_Smith_W

Ken Burch wrote:

At this stage, I'd say the only hope for any part of the Left in Germany surviving would be for both SPD and Die Linke to dissolve and a new Left party

But they aren't the same, and they haven't been the same since they split just over 100 years ago (over some of the exact same issues they face today).

On the broader issue, I don't know enough about the situation there to have an opinion on whether this coalition is a good or a bad thing. It may well be that there is no point in driving another fight that will only have the same result. But while we are focused on the divide on the left, this is also a divide on the right. It not, Merkel would have had her majority.

Besides, there is a long history of these coalitions. It no more means erasure of party identity than the existence of factions within a party means erasure. But sometimes it is what is necessary to govern.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

 

 

But they aren't the same, and they haven't been the same since they split just over 100 years ago (over some of the exact same issues they face today).

On the broader issue, I don't know enough about the situation there to have an opinion on whether this coalition is a good or a bad thing. It may well be that there is no point in driving another fight that will only have the same result. But while we are focused on the divide on the left, this is also a divide on the right. It not, Merkel would have had her majority.

Besides, there is a long history of these coalitions. It no more means erasure of party identity than the existence of factions within a party means erasure. But sometimes it is what is necessary to govern.

I know that SPD and Die Linke are different-although it's simplistic to treat Die Linke as simply the successor to the old KPD or the SED-it contains a lot of people who started on the left wing of the SPD, and various independent leftists.  Almost nobody in the party, other than the 100 fossils in the Communist Platform group, are anywhere close to being Marxist-Leninists.

What I'm saying there is that both the SPD-due to its decades long slide towards the postion somewhere between Blairism and the CDU its leaders usually inhabit on the political spectrum now-and Die Linke, due to the fact that people can't let it go that it still has a trivial handful of members who started in the SED, an infinitismally small faction who have no influence over what the party does or stands for-are essentially discredited in the eyes of the German electorate-are both permanently stagnant, neither has any possibility of ever gaining additional popularity in the future, and that therefore a party that is Left but not exclusively or specifically associated with either of them, a party that encompasses anti-globalization and social movement values as much as anything else, is the only way forward.

And another SPD coalition with the CDU-CSU would guarantee that there would never be another SPD victory at any future German election.  There's no way the party could be junior partners with the CDU-CSU for this long a time and still be seen by the electorate as a possible alternative government OR as a party with any remaining meaningful differences with the CDU-CSU.  It goes without saying that, since the SPD will always be powerless in such coalitions, Merkel will never against make any concessions to anything even close to social democratic values.

There's also the fact that the Greens won't work with Die Linke because they're still in a snit about the GDR era-an era that nobody even close to Die Linke's leadership played any signicant role in,  which has no chance of ever being re-created-even thought this refusal makes the election of any sort of progressive government mathematically impossible.

At this stage, I'd say the only hope for any part of the Left in Germany surviving would be for both SPD and Die Linke to dissolve and a new Left party not dominated by either should be formed.

One more CDU/CSU-SPD coalition and the SPD will be reduced for the rest of eternity to the pathetic position of every other social democratic party on the european mainland-a rump party, always in third or fourth place at best, no longer even pretending to seek any real alternative to the status quo, simply there to occasionally hold three of four cabinet seats in which they administer the austerity policies just as savagely as the right-wing parties in the coalition they're in.

6079_Smith_W

The Sparticists also started out as part of the SPD, so it is simplistic, and not. Again, especially since some of the issues are not all that different than in 1914.

But more importantly, how is that proposal any different than the one you are warning about - assimilation with the CDU? There have been SPD-CDU  (and SPD-Linke ) coalitions before, and parties and factions within parties still exist.

Ultimately I think the proof of any desire for a grand coalition on the left is whether there is even critical mass for it at all. But the more immediate question is whether there is anything to be gained by a new election, and if not, how to proceed.

And secondly, considering that all parties bled voters to the AfD - with the only difference in that trend a small gain for Die Linke in the former BRD states,  how do either the SPD or Linke  hope to change that simply by putting aside their differences and huddling together? Seems to me it means someone sacrificing their principles.

It might be a bit more realistic for all parties to deal with those differences on an issue-by-issue basis.

 

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