Presidential Debate 3

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Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

McCain's on Letterman tomorrow night.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

quote:


Originally posted by ElizaQ:
[b]Well look Boom Boom you have to dig down into the amazing and intelligent subliminal messaging that McCain is putting out here. "Joe Six Pack" is now "Joe the Plumber" He got a job! [/b]

And apparently Joe's quit drinking as well.
(Or switched to whiskey.)

Polly B Polly B's picture

At about 51 minutes, McCain has a big Palin-moment when he gets almost incoherent on the topic of Columbia. I had to back it up twice to figure out what he was talking about.

Doug

quote:


Originally posted by ElizaQ:
[b]
McCain on the other hand doesn't seem to get it. There has been more then enough analysis that his aggressive attack style just doesn't play well with the voters that he needs. [/b]

That's been his problem all campaign. Playing to the Republican base rather than to the swing voters that could make him President.

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Joe the Plumber. Who is this mysterious man? Many pundits last night said he won the debate. Some people are saying he may have been a GOP plant as part of a strategy, his brother is a major contributer to an RNC PAC for instance.

Some say he's just an average guy, an undecided voter who just had a question and is now caught in a whirlwind of crazy electioneering, a potential three week icon for the McCain campaign. He was interviewed many times last night and declined to say who he was going to vote for but indications look like he's leaning away from Obama. He seems to have the Repub talking points down quite pat on issues and on CBS for instance he compared Obama to Sammy Davis JR.

Not sure that it matters so much though because if true here is the really funny part... Joe the Plumber may not even be registered to vote and if he truly is just a guy from Toledo Ohio, it's to late to register.

Say it ain't so Joe? What's going on?

The mystery continues...

lol

[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]

Willowdale Wizard

[url=http://www.ua.org/ua_endorses.asp]Guess which union was the first to endorse Obama?[/url]

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

Well I just watched a clip of an interview where Joe called Obama a socialist. I think it's pretty clear what X he's going to mark. If he's can actually mark an X. He says he can, that he is registered. People are still trying to find out where exactly.

It's pretty funny to watch all the 'Joe the Plumber' questions and digging that's going on all over the net right now.

Willowdale wizard: Yeah I read about that last evening. It's very ironic.

Willowdale Wizard

The bottom line from the three debates is that I don't think the American public is going to give the nuclear codes to someone who comes across as cranky/angry like McCain.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

CNN just did an interview with Joe Wurzerburger (Joe the Plumber) who said it's surreal to see his name on national TV. Then, interviewed some young folks who said they weren't going to vote for either McCain or Obama, but instead write in "Joe the Plumber" on their ballots. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

"Joe the Plumber" could get mre votes than Nader if the trend starts to pick up. [img]eek.gif" border="0[/img]

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

CNN: Independent voters give Obama 57% to McCain's 31% as winner of the debate.

josh

quote:


Originally posted by ElizaQ:
[b]
He was interviewed many times last night and declined to say who he was going to vote for but indications look like he's leaning away from Obama. He seems to have the Repub talking points down quite pat on issues and on CBS for instance he compared Obama to Sammy Davis JR.

[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ][/b]


I'm sure he won't vote for Obama because he's afraid of being "punished" by having to pay a few percent more of his income above $250,000 in taxes. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Some average guy.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

McCain said he's not President Bush, but he voted with Bush 95% of the time. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by josh:
[b]

I'm sure he won't vote for Obama because he's afraid of being "punished" by having to pay a few percent more of his income above $250,000 in taxes. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] Some average guy.[/b]


I think that's where his "Obama's Plan is "socialist" comes from. To those on the ' far right' in the US it's perceived that being deathly afraid of anything that remotely speaks of 'socialism' is what the 'average' person thinks and 'if only people would hear understand that's what these policies are then McCain would win by a landslide'.

"Spreading the wealth" is another evil phrase. Hence why McCain brought it up.

Willowdale Wizard

[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlrf32JI708]Obama's campaign has already dealt[/url] with McCain's "you should have run in 2004" claim.

[url=http://jamesfallows.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/last_words_from_me_... Fallows, in the Atlantic, had some good conclusions:[/url]

quote:

In general-election debates, it's a losing strategy to "rally the base." That's what your own campaign events, and your fund-raisers, and your targeted ads, and your running mate are for. Especially by the time of the second and third debates, the job is to "rally the center." That's where most of remaining persuadable and undecided voters are.

Everything about Barack Obama's approach to this debate, and all debates, was consistent with this reality. Almost nothing about John McCain's approach was:

- Obama took every opportunity to steer questions back from campaign tactics to governing issues. ("It's been a tough campaign, and we have hurt feelings, but what really matters is avoiding four more years of...." All quotes here are from memory and therefore approximate, but true to the general spirit.)

- He took every opportunity to talk about "working together" to deal with those issues, ("The reality is, it's going to take Republicans and Democrats working together.")

- He took nearly every opportunity to suggest encompassing rather than polarizing approaches to the substance of those issues. ("Do we want to reduce the cost of health care or expand the coverage? We've got to do both...")

- He took every opportunity to identify areas where he and John McCain actually agreed on approaches. ("I agree with John..." might have seemed an over-used trope in the first debate. This time, very selectively, it helped in the control-the-center strategy.)

- He took most opportunities to remain calm, to stay above the fray, to seem amused rather than frazzled, not to take personal offense. As mentioned earlier, he was not quite as perfectly self-contained as in earlier performances. But compared with McCain, he was the one -- in a good sense -- who had taken Prozac, while McCain seemed to be in a 'roid rage. And because of this general self-possession -- realizing, for instance, that there was only upside in being gracious about Sarah Palin -- when he decided to bear down, as in the breathtaking "At your running mate's rallies, when someone mentions my name they say 'Terrorist' and 'Kill him,'" it was the more powerful.

If you go down the same list, you can see that McCain did just about the opposite on every one of the counts.

His most effective rhetorical line was that if Obama wanted to run against President Bush, he could have done so four years ago. (For that matter, so could McCain.)

But that was undercut, according to the logic above, by emphasizing tactics over issues, by emphasizing partisan division over conciliation, by body-language contempt for his opponent, and by a demeanor that reinforced the short-tempered and dyspeptic impression from the previous debates.


ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

quote:


Originally posted by Boom Boom:
[b]McCain said he's not President Bush, but he voted with Bush 95% of the time. [img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

Yep he did and right on cue the Dem campaign released an ad pointing that out. McCain couldn't have given them a better bit of film to use.

The transcript

quote:

Obama: "I'm Barack Obama and I approve this message."

*shows the debate clip* McCain: "Senator Obama, I'm not President Bush."

Narrator: "No, but you did vote with Bush 90% of the time. Tax breaks for big corporations and the wealth but almost nothing for the middle class - same as Bush. Keep spending $10 billion a month in Iraq while our economy struggles - same as Bush. You may not be George Bush but..."

McCain: "I voted with the President over 90% of the time, even higher than a lot of my republican colleagues."


Doug

quote:


Ireland's biggest bookmaker Paddy Power said Thursday it would pay out early more than 1 million euros (782,776) on bets that Barack Obama will be the next U.S. president, three weeks ahead of the election.

The Dublin-based bookmaker said it made the "unprecedented decision" to pay on bets taken so far, following Wednesday's final campaign debate between Obama and his Republican rival John McCain, which polls judged the Democrat to have won.

"We declare this race well and truly over and congratulate all those who backed Obama," Power said.


[url=http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081016/od_uk_nm/oukoe_uk_bookmaker_obama_od... you have it.[/url]

500_Apples

Btw McCain talked a lot about Canada. He said we threatened to sell our oil to China if the USA would renegotiate NAFTA. Is this true? I don't recall that happening.

I think McCain also talked about our health care system.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

quote:


Originally posted by 500_Apples:
Btw McCain talked a lot about Canada. He said we threatened to sell our oil to China if the USA would renegotiate NAFTA. Is this true? I don't recall that happening.

He raised it as a possibility, because China was interested in investing in the oil sands, and a pipeline to the west coast. I don't know what happened, maybe Harper put the kibosh on these ideas?


quote:

I think McCain also talked about our health care system.

Yes, but not in a favourable light. He said if we follow Obama's plans for health care reform, we'd (the USA) end up like Canada and England.
[img]rolleyes.gif" border="0[/img]

contrarianna

Truthdig unearths video source of McCain's best debate ideas.
[url=http://www.truthdig.com/avbooth/item/20081015_debate_preview_batman_vs_t...

josh
Bookish Agrarian

Why am I reminded of Mr Burns?

Doug

quote:


Originally posted by Bookish Agrarian:
[b]Why am I reminded of Mr Burns?[/b]

Exxcelllent!

Briguy

That's harsh. McCain pulled a common "walking the wrong way to get offstage" mistake, made a grimace about his own mistake, and it gets captured and distributed to every corner of the internet.

McCain has a bad plan, a bad record, and bad intentions; will finish the job of destroying the US economy; wants a love-in with Colombian dictators; wants to extend the endless war into Iran, North Korea, and maybe Venezuela; has Bible Spice as his running mate. Yet this picture is going to lose him more votes than any of his foolish positions and decisions.

Polunatic2

Looks like Joe the Plumber may be related to Charles Keating's son in law, Robert M. Wurzelbacher Jr., who did time along with Charlie for the S&L swindle that McCain encouraged & benefited from.

[url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F0CE7DE123CF930A25751C1A... 1993 article[/url]

[url=http://steveyoungonpolitics.com/say-it-isnt-so-joe-wurzelbacher-not-a-re...'s not a registered plumber in Ohio[/url]

One thing that Obama didn't dare challenge last night was McCain's "soldier to school" plan where returning soldiers could become teachers without having to go through all the rigamarole of getting a teachers certificate. So on the one hand, McCain wants to fire bad teachers, on the other, he wants to militarize the classrooms using unqualified teachers. But who can argue with that. They're got to support their troops.

[ 16 October 2008: Message edited by: Polunatic2 ]

ElizaQ ElizaQ's picture

[url=http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/10/factoid-of-... of the Day. Joe the Plumber has now done more press conferences then Sarah Palin[/url]

josh
M. Spector M. Spector's picture

quote:


John McCain said it. Right out loud in the third debate.

“Obviously, we had to take Saddam Hussein out of Kuwait or it would've threatened the Middle Eastern oil supply.”

The first gulf war was about defending access to oil after all. McCain reiterated the theme later on, as he has in past debates, when he said that we need to “eliminate our dependence on the places in the world that harm our national security.”

What he didn’t say out loud is that the current war, the one in Iraq, is also about defending access to oil and other energy resources. This war has cost us $656 billion and counting. Our country has a long history of using military intervention to secure energy resources.

Indeed, according the latest report by the National Priorities Project (NPP), [b]the US will spend around $100 billion of our defense budget this year alone defending access to fossil fuels worldwide. That figure does not include what is spent on the Iraq War,[/b] which, when included, will add an additional $100 billion.

That’s $200 billion dollars that could be spent, in one year alone, on alternative energy resources and infrastructure, on renewable energy subsidies that will help create green collar jobs for working America. - [url=http://www.counterpunch.org/smith10172008.html]Source[/url]


Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

Joe the Plumber? How about [url=http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_brother_calls_911_to_complain_1023.... the Brother?[/url] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

excerpt:

Early this week, Sen. John McCain's brother Joe, while in Alexandria, VA, called 911 because he was irritated with traffic. When the operator asked him if he was really calling the emergency line to complain about highway conditions, Joe McCain responded, "F--k you" and hung up.

ETA:

President Jimmy Carter has a brother Billy who caused him a bit of embarrassment. I hope Joe McCain is another "Billy". [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]

[ 24 October 2008: Message edited by: Boom Boom ]

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