US and China went to war and no one noticed.

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SeekingAPolitic...
US and China went to war and no one noticed.

I am disapointed with myself this morning, because this morning I had awakening as to the Trump administration relationship with China and I did not get it at first.  Let me explain.  My perecepsitive has changed on the relationship between China and US, radically.  I was convinced that the conflict between US/China was strictly a commerical one.  Trump is fighting to bring back jobs and narrow the trade imbalance.  Thats how the media represents the conflict as a trade dispute but I was watching one US of the preimere business channels and one of the host educated me to the truth of the matter.  This conflict is a potilical conflict not trade conflict.  If one views this a throught a poltical lens things change and in big way becasue commerical/trade conflict is about mere money but a politcial dispute is about raw power and hegemony.

Once you accept that current issues between China/US are based on questions of hegemony and not money things change.  There is no going back, the US now views China as a threat to its hegemony. Prior administarations thought China as a business problem and gift to US mutlinational Corp. The idea was the China will open its markets and to be dominated by western companies.  And things will be all good, China will play secondary role in global politics.  It will be a nice fit in the American ordered world.  But the Trump adminstration sees the truth of the matter.  China's ambitions are not to secondary power in a American ordered world, they have their agenda and its not to be second to another nation.  I did know if any one heard about a document released few years by the Chinesse about their industrial policy and goals of gaining control of most the stragetic industries in the world.  The plan simply states that China wants to move to producing higher end products, more value added, its how western nations got where are today moving up the value added chain.  Here is short primer.

 https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/business-pmn/made-in-china-2025-p...

I belevie that the Trump adminstration is the first American administration that believes that China is challenger for US hegemony rather than a stragetic partner with on going trade issues.  This means a struggle that will not will sloved until the question hegemony is solved.  The US and China are in a shadow war and we live in a much more dangerous world than many think.  

Those are my thoughts, how do you view the relationship between US/China?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

No American adminstration has ever seen China as a strategic partner. Do you think Trump started the crisis in the South China Seas?  China will be the dominant world power in this century, if there is any globe left after climate chaos takes over completely.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_South_China_Sea_dispute#2015

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
I did know if any one heard about a document released few years by the Chinesse about their industrial policy and goals of gaining control of most the stragetic industries in the world.

The Great Leap Forward?  I've heard of it.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

It is currently the 13th. Imagine a country actually planning the direction of its economy instead of spur of the moment purchases like buying a pipeline from US conmen.

https://www.apcoworldwide.com/docs/default-source/default-document-libra...

http://www.chinabusinessreview.com/understanding-chinas-13th-five-year-p...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Imagine a country actually planning the direction of its economy instead of spur of the moment purchases like buying a pipeline from US conmen.

Or spur of the moment inspirations like "of course the villages can manufacture steel!"

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

To bad our stupidty example is from this year, your Chinese example is from 60 years ago. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

You brought up the five year plans, not me.

Which ones should we feel free to giggle at?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Actually I did not raise five year plans I merely pointed out the current one.

You are free to poke fun at any government that does not submit to US rule. It is after all your most common type of comment so I would expect nothing less.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well, "Understanding China’s 13th Five-Year Plan" kind of implies the other twelve, yes?

WWWTT

Kropotkin wrote

No American adminstration has ever seen China as a strategic partner.

not entirely true. Around ww2 the US helped China. 

Carter administration took a liking (communist China)

but as far as the opening comments goes. I doubt any war has begun 

WWWTT

I'm going to shift my comments in this thread away from "war" for the simple fact it's never going to happen! Just like like me winning the lottery.

I came across this link while searching for something else that I found interesting (this is how the internet sucks the fucking life out of you) that I wanted to share in this thread

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-03-22/why-america-is-so-sca...

I have heard of Hua Wei before. This is them 华为

https://www.huawei.com/ca/

Never realised that America is fearful of a Chinese company? Or even Canada?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-blocks-aecon-sale-china-1.4675353

Now I remember a business rep for local 46 saying that the buyout was actually good news for the construction industry and organised construction workers in Canada (forget the exact reasoning) but a similar buyout happened in Australia and was part of his debate

https://www.afr.com/business/liberated-by-the-chinese-john-holland-bloss...

 

WWWTT

The relationship between China and the US is very complicated in my opinion. There is a Chinese saying "America is China's greatest ally and China's greatest enemy" This ideom pretty much says it all and in a way says nothing or is confusing.

Communism is probably the #1 issue that sours the relation. If had the naitionalists won, then I believe the US imperialism would be the undisputed masters of all the peoples on the earth right now!

Michael Moriarity Michael Moriarity's picture

I posted an article that is very much on point in the China thread, but nobody picked up on it. I think historian Alfred McCoy's observations in that article are quite insightful.

NDPP

I read it in the China thread. Some good stuff.

'While Washington's influence in Asia recedes, Beijing's grows ever stronger'.

'...another nail in the coffin of American global dominion." 

WWWTT

Hi MM

I first glansed over your link in the China thread. Thanks for posting.

This is a long thread that weeves around and is somewhat hard to follow. From it, it almost sounds like Trump is actually helping China establish it's silk road one belt. But on the other hand, Trump can not look so obvious so he slaps frivilous tarrifs to look like he's walking the big talk. 

From my understanding, the tarrif war between US/China has now peaked and won't further escalate.

I suspect that the US imperial empire is in some serious trouble and is looking for a way to save some face so the US can shift focus from foreign to domestic.

I'm sure the huge aggresive development initiatives from China into the UK, Austalia and the too many to mention Asian African countries has caught US imperialism way off guard and has over run US imperialism with absolutely no responce. The US may not even know where to start?

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

You brought up the five year plans, not me.

Which ones should we feel free to giggle at?

The video is kind of a hoot:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTiBgHIWKik