Venezuela right-wing opposition wins control of National Assembly by a landslide

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epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..i see the biggest threat against the assembly is a us intervention. as for maduro his survival depends on the assembly. he's in a corner. he has to "cut a deal" with the assembly which means all kinds of reforms and transfers of power.  this is how things work. like when the powers that be were forced to create elected parliaments. that wasn't a total victory but a step forward. as this will be if it's allowed to. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
he has to "cut a deal" with the assembly which means all kinds of reforms and transfers of power.  this is how things work.

But despite being in a corner for a while now, he's been entirely unwilling to "cut a deal" with the already-elected National Assembly.  And that's how things are supposed to work.  You shouldn't need a brand new Assembly just so you can toss out the one you've already got. 

If Maduro wants to show that he's willing to bend to make things better, couldn't he start with the National Assembly??

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..you have been presenting blockages to the assembly in your last couple posts. i don't deny they exist but to remain focused there you can't see opportunity when it presents itself. none of this  will be easy but i refuse to dwell on those blockages. lets see what comes from the assembly.  lets see if the us can manage an intervention. while the population is polarized now this can change if a third option is presented. you also are making rules of what can and can not be done. what should and should not be done. it's for the people to say.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
none of this  will be easy but i refuse to dwell on those blockages. lets see what comes from the assembly.

Waiting to see what comes of it is probably all we've got.

But I'd like to suggest that I'm not "dwelling" on the stonewalling of the National Assembly, like some sort of long-ago slight or whatever.  I just can't help wondering what's supposed to be different about the "People's" Assembly, if the government is willing to completely disregard the National Assembly, elected by the same "People".

Quote:
you also are making rules of what can and can not be done. what should and should not be done. it's for the people to say.

It's totally not for me, a Canadian, to say.  But it's my understanding that like many nations, Venezuela turns to their Constitution for guidance, and that Constitution is evidently quite clear on matters such as regular elections, recall elections and so on.  I'm not demanding that they do as *I* say.  But I hope they would do as their own Constitution says. 

They can't even pretend that Constitution was written by right-wingers and oligarchs.  It's the one Chavez authored.  Didn't he claim it would last for 100 years, or some such?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..yes waiting is all we have. :) 

..it's been a long time that we figured out that parliaments and their processes are not institutions of democracy. i'm eager to see what the assembly comes out with.  i believe the global left is interested as well. in the martin video they speak of making a new constitution. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

At times, various nations have made choices that, deep down, I couldn't vote for or choose if it were up to me, but since it's not I've just popped popcorn and waited to see how it would play out (example: France banning Niqabs).  So, ya.  We'll see.

Quote:
in the martin video they speak of making a new constitution.

And I still find that ironic.  It's not like Venezuela is still using the old constitution from the 19th century.  Chavez rewrote it -- what did he get wrong that needs to be fixed? 

 

NDPP

Dr Francisco Dominguez - Ep 92  (podcast)

https://store.counterpunch.org/dr-francisco-dominguez-episode-92/

"This week Eric sits down with Dr Francisco Dominguez, national secretary of the UK-based Venezuela Solidarity Campaign to discuss the latest from the Bolivarian Republic as it faces perhaps the worst crisis since Hugo Chavez rose to power..."

 

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Chavez rewrote it -- what did he get wrong that needs to be fixed? 

..not sure if you seen this extraordinary piece i posted in the autonomy thread a short while back. but peruse it at your leisure as you eat your popcorn and obsess on chavez :)

quote:

More than 300.000 users strong, Decide Madrid is consolidating itself as the hegemonic space for participation in the city. It activates a variety of processes, debates, proposals, and projects. Its free software means that any city can adapt Consul to its needs, without any substantial investment, and set up a platform. From Barcelona to A Coruña, from Rome to Paris and Buenos Aires, dozens of institutions around the world have replicated the initial Decide Madrid core, thus setting up what Audrey Tang, Taiwan’s digital minister, calls a "liquid federation of cities". Ada Colau, the mayor of Barcelona, ​​praising the cooperative network of participation cities says: "It is very interesting that in Barcelona we have been able to carry out our first experience of digital participation, Decidim Barcelona, ​​adapting Madrid’s base code. Once we have had a first proposal, we have shared it with many municipalities throughout Catalonia".

NDPP

CIA Director Confirms US Pushing for A New Gov in Venezuela

https://twitter.com/BenjaminNorton/status/889991477190955009

(After joking about history of CIA coups and fascist death squads...)

NDPP

Canada Calls on Venezuela To Cancel Constituent Assembly

http://ow.ly/wkpu30dWzoj

"The Honourable Chrystia Freeland, Minister of Foreign Affairs, today issued the following statement on the situation in Venezuela...Canada welcomes and supports the important actions taken today by the United States to target leaders of the regime."

'The American Devil's little Canadian helper can always be counted upon...

NDPP

Countdown To War On Venezuela

http://www.moonofalabama.org/2017/07/countdown-to-war-on-venezuela.html

"The US just ordered the relatives of its embassy employees out of the country. Such is only done when imminent action is expected."

 

Strange Fruit: Venezuela Has An Opposition That Nobody Should Support

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/28/strange-fruit-venezuela-has-an-o...

"Which side in the Venezuelan conflict produces 'Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees...a fruit for the crows to pluck'?

I refer, of course, to the fact that in a number of well-documented instances Venezuelan opposition have burned black people alive.

This horrible fact should be enough to decide the issue for those in the United States [or its compliant northern vassal] when they think about which of the two sides to support in the struggle..."

Yet it seems to be not so clear for some people..."

No surprise given past experiences with Canadian support for US-backed Nazis in Ukraine or head-chopping jihadi regime changers in Syria. Let alone their 'heavy lifting' bombing of Libyans. Or support for Israel. That's what a good vassal-state does right?

NDPP

Trans Activist Runs For Venezuela's Constituent Assembly (and vid)

https://videosenglish.telesurtv.net/video/669951/trans-activist-runs-for...

"In the National Constituent Assembly we are going to promote the recognition of the gender identity of transexual and transgender people. And of course the right to no discrimination based on sexual orientation or skin color." - Rummie Quintero

NDPP

Venezuela: 7 Dead in 48 Hour Opposition Strike As UN Calls To Respect ANC Vote

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13268

"The wishes of the Venezuelan people to participate or not participate in this election need to be respected. No one should be obligated to vote, while those wishing to take part shold be able to do so freely, a spokesperson for the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights said in a press briefing."

 

The Guardian's Propaganda on Venezuela: All You Need To Know

https://off-guardian.org/2017/07/27/the-guardians-propaganda-on-venezuel...

"The Guardian comes up with another propaganda piece laden with lies, distortions and omissions..."

 

On The Eve Of The July 30th Constituent Assembly, We Say: US Hands Off Venezuela!

http://iacenter.org/5321/on-the-eve-of-the-july-30th-constituent-assembl...

NDPP

"In case you need more proof that US backs violent Venezuelan opposition:  [US] VP phones rightwing leader."

https://twitter.com/venanalysis

 

Opposition, Activist Call on Liberals to Sanction Venezuelan Government

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/opposition-activist-call-o...

"I'd like Canada to follow the United States in naming and specifically targeting individuals with sanctions, but also as the US has promised, if the constituent assembly does move ahead, there would be serious economic repercussions in terms of more general sanctions, Mr Kent said. NDP foreign affairs critic Helen Laverdiere echoed Mr Kent, saying Canada should consult with allies to respond to the Venezuelan crisis."

bekayne

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/venezuela-national-assembly-election-1.4228090

Later in the day, Maduro's much-touted new voter identification failed to come up in the registry as he promoted the card on live national television.

The president went on state television to encourage Venezuelans to vote, admonishing them to remember to take their national identification cards and their new Patria voter ID cards. After his card was scanned, the screen read "The person does not exist or the card has been cancelled."

If only Trump and Maduro could meet. They'd probably like each other.

Maduro made clear in a televised address Saturday evening that he intends to use the assembly to govern without limitation, describing the vote as "the election of a power that's above and beyond every other. It's the super power!"

He said he wants the assembly to strip opposition legislators of their constitutional immunity from prosecution and indicated he is eager to prosecute many more members of the opposition parties that control a handful of state governments along with the National Assembly, providing one of the few remaining checks on the power of the socialist party that has ruled this OPEC nation for nearly two decades.

"The right wing already has its prison cell waiting," the president said. "All the criminals will go to prison for the crimes they've committed."

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The president went on state television to encourage Venezuelans to vote, admonishing them to remember to take their national identification cards and their new Patria voter ID cards. After his card was scanned, the screen read "The person does not exist or the card has been cancelled."

LOL!  How did it confuse him with an opposition supporter??

Quote:

He said he wants the assembly to strip opposition legislators of their constitutional immunity from prosecution and indicated he is eager to prosecute many more members of the opposition parties that control a handful of state governments along with the National Assembly, providing one of the few remaining checks on the power of the socialist party that has ruled this OPEC nation for nearly two decades.

"The right wing already has its prison cell waiting," the president said. "All the criminals will go to prison for the crimes they've committed."

This new Assembly "of the People" hasn't even been voted in yet, and already they've got a mandate.

Anyone want to bet on whether this new Assembly grants Maduro's wishes or not?  I've got a shiny dollar on "they will, and promptly".

 

NDPP

In Celebratory Mood Venezuelans Vote For Constituent Assembly (and vid)

http://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/In-Celebratory-Mood-Venezuelans-Vo...

"At voting stations around the country, there was an air of celebration as Venezuelans demonstrated their excitement and pride at taking the future of their country into their own hands by choosing 545 delegates for different social sectors and territories to rewrite the national constitution in an effort to bring peace and dialogue to the country."

'There is no terrorism that can deal with the will of the Venezuelan people. He who has eyes, let him see..."

 

Venezuela Unrest

https://youtu.be/5Mri7VtJnAc

Diego Enrique Arria Salicetti and Mike Prysner

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
In Celebratory Mood Venezuelans Vote For Constituent Assembly (and vid)

It's understandable if they're feeling celebratory; nobody who believes other than they do ran for this Kangaroo Assembly, and nobody who believes other than they do voted.

Recently, in an "unofficial" poll -- because the government chose to ignore it -- 7.2 million Venezuelans made it clear they're not interested in being ruled by the Chavismo People's Assembly of Righteousness.  I'll be interested to see how many voters the government claims endorsed this.  My guess:  102 million Venezuelans!

NDPP
cco

I remember reading recently that the electoral system for this assembly gave each municipality a single vote, so rural towns with 150 people got the same weight as Caracas. (If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily accept being corrected.)

I know a lot of people on here believe (as I do) in proportional representation, so let me just ask, putting aside the right-wing boycott and the unofficial pseudo-referendum: Does anyone think a similarly designed system, giving equal weight to Red Deer and Toronto, would be a good idea in Canada? Or are we stuck on giving more weight to outcome than to process?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

cco wrote:

I remember reading recently that the electoral system for this assembly gave each municipality a single vote, so rural towns with 150 people got the same weight as Caracas. (If I'm wrong about this, I'll happily accept being corrected.)

I know a lot of people on here believe (as I do) in proportional representation, so let me just ask, putting aside the right-wing boycott and the unofficial pseudo-referendum: Does anyone think a similarly designed system, giving equal weight to Red Deer and Toronto, would be a good idea in Canada? Or are we stuck on giving more weight to outcome than to process?

Maybe you should try google before passing around ridiculous ideas about 150 people having the weight of millions. Here is a quick summary of Venezulan municipalities. They are already used as the basis for their federal electoral regime. I didn't check for the actual number so why don't you do a little research and tell us how far off your 150 people estimate is the actual size of the smallest municipal electoral district. 

In Canada PEI seats are worth 2 to 3 times what an urban areas people get for representation. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipalities_of_Venezuela#Amazonas

Maduro's proposal, approved by the CNE, is for all the country's municipalities to elect one representatives, except for the state capitals, which will have two each, and the Caracas municipality of Libertador, which will elect seven.

https://www.efe.com/efe/english/world/venezuelan-gov-t-proposes-constitu...

I believe that means Caracus all totaled gets 11 seats on the Assembly.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

A rally in Caracas on July 27 in support of the Constituent Assembly elections

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..don't agree with everthing said in this piece but found this interesting and worth sharing.

The Crisis in Venezuela

quote:

Attitude of the Left

If the diagnosis of a reactionary coup is correct, the position of the left should not give rise to disagreements. Our main enemies are the Right and imperialism, and to crush them is always a priority. This elementary principle must be reaffirmed at critical times when what is obvious can become confused.

Whatever our criticisms were of Salvador Allende, our central battle was against Pinochet. Similarly, we adopted a corresponding line of conduct toward the Argentine gorillas of 1955 or the saboteurs of Arbenz, Torrijos and the various anti-imperialist governments of the region. This position in Venezuela today points to the need for common action against the rightist escalation.

When a coup is on the horizon, it is indispensable to single out those who are responsible for the crisis. Those who cause a disaster are not the same as those who are powerless to resolve it.

This distinction applies in the economic field. The errors committed by Maduro are both numerous and unjustifiable, but those guilty of the present damage are the capitalists. The government is tolerant or incapable, but it does not belong on the same plane. Those who commit the monumental error of drawing a line of identity between both sectors[17] confuse responsibilities of a different nature.

The government’s mistakes have been demonstrated in the inoperative system of currency exchange rates, the unacceptable external debt, or in the lack of control over prices and smuggling. But the collapse of the economy has been caused by the affluent who manipulate the currencies, trigger inflation, handle imported goods and limit supplies of basic goods.

The Executive is unresponsive or acts mistakenly for many reasons: inefficiency, tolerance of corruption, protection of the bolibourgeoisie, connivance with millionaires disguised as Chavistas. That’s why it does not cut support to the private groups that receive cheap dollars in order to import dear. But the collapse of production has been carried out by the ruling class in order to overthrow Maduro. Not to recognize that conflict is to display an unwonted level of myopia.

This blindness prevents recognition of another key fact at this time: the resistance of Chavismo to the rightist onslaught. Albeit with methods and attitudes that are highly questionable, Maduro is not surrendering. He maintains the vertical structure of the PSUV, he favours the banning of the critical currents, and he preserves a bureaucracy that strangles responses from below. But unlike Dilma or Lugo he does not give in. His conduct is the exact opposite of the capitulation carried out by Syriza in Greece.

NDPP

Trump is Not the Venezuelan Supreme Court 

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13274

"...The US Empire consists of allied governments like Canada, private media companies and prominent NGOs who all share its delusion that it is entitled to decide which government is a 'dictatorship' that 'must go'. It is a truly formidable and lethal system of misinformation.

Leftists should always have done more to challenge the US Empire on Venezuela during the Chavista era, and to challenge imperialism in general. We really need to step up now."

 

 

josh

epaulo13 wrote:

..don't agree with everthing said in this piece but found this interesting and worth sharing.

The Crisis in Venezuela

quote:

Attitude of the Left

If the diagnosis of a reactionary coup is correct, the position of the left should not give rise to disagreements. Our main enemies are the Right and imperialism, and to crush them is always a priority. This elementary principle must be reaffirmed at critical times when what is obvious can become confused.

Whatever our criticisms were of Salvador Allende, our central battle was against Pinochet. Similarly, we adopted a corresponding line of conduct toward the Argentine gorillas of 1955 or the saboteurs of Arbenz, Torrijos and the various anti-imperialist governments of the region. This position in Venezuela today points to the need for common action against the rightist escalation.

When a coup is on the horizon, it is indispensable to single out those who are responsible for the crisis. Those who cause a disaster are not the same as those who are powerless to resolve it.

This distinction applies in the economic field. The errors committed by Maduro are both numerous and unjustifiable, but those guilty of the present damage are the capitalists. The government is tolerant or incapable, but it does not belong on the same plane. Those who commit the monumental error of drawing a line of identity between both sectors[17] confuse responsibilities of a different nature.

The government’s mistakes have been demonstrated in the inoperative system of currency exchange rates, the unacceptable external debt, or in the lack of control over prices and smuggling. But the collapse of the economy has been caused by the affluent who manipulate the currencies, trigger inflation, handle imported goods and limit supplies of basic goods.

The Executive is unresponsive or acts mistakenly for many reasons: inefficiency, tolerance of corruption, protection of the bolibourgeoisie, connivance with millionaires disguised as Chavistas. That’s why it does not cut support to the private groups that receive cheap dollars in order to import dear. But the collapse of production has been carried out by the ruling class in order to overthrow Maduro. Not to recognize that conflict is to display an unwonted level of myopia.

This blindness prevents recognition of another key fact at this time: the resistance of Chavismo to the rightist onslaught. Albeit with methods and attitudes that are highly questionable, Maduro is not surrendering. He maintains the vertical structure of the PSUV, he favours the banning of the critical currents, and he preserves a bureaucracy that strangles responses from below. But unlike Dilma or Lugo he does not give in. His conduct is the exact opposite of the capitulation carried out by Syriza in Greece.

There are so many false analogies in that piece.  This is far more Erdogan than Allende.  Which is not to say I support foreign meddling or the opposition in Venezuela.  

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The errors committed by Maduro are both numerous and unjustifiable, but those guilty of the present damage are the capitalists.

Quote:
Albeit with methods and attitudes that are highly questionable, Maduro is not surrendering.

I've seen quite a number of similar comments from unquestionably "left" sources and they seem to boil down to "Maduro is terrible, but the opposition/capitalism is even worse".

TBH, it seems as though these commenters are much more concerned with "the revolution" than with Venezuelans, otherwise why are "terrible" and "worse" the only two choices for Venezuelans, apparently?

NDPP

Authoritarianism Already Smothers Freedom: It Is Not the Issue in Venezuela

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/31/authoritarianism-already-smother...

"Some say Venezuelan president Nicolas Maduro is authoritarian. Yet an unrecognized authoritarianism is more serious..."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Trump Sanctions Maduro

Over 8 million Venezuelans vote for a National Constituent Assembly, while the US sanctions anyone elected to the Assembly, we discuss the implications with author Steve Ellner and historian Miguel Tinker Salas

quote:

It's unclear how it's going to do that. It's unclear in that context why it was needed to revise the economy or to revise other social contracts. Obviously, the opposition and the foreign governments, particularly those opposed to Venezuela, see it as a game changer because the National Constituent Assembly is a supra body. It can dissolve the National Assembly. It can dissolve the Supreme Court. It can fire the attorney general. So in that sense, it's a supra body. In the end, whatever decisions they make must be brought back to the Venezuelan population for approval. So there is limits to what they can do and expect the population to support them.

NDPP

Venezuela Crisis: Washington Wants 'Its' Country Back   -   by John Wight

https://sptnkne.ws/fbRT

josh
josh

Looks like Little Erdogan has started hauling opponents away.  Kudos to true leftists in the country who have broken with him.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/top-venezuelan-opposit...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

It's fascinating to see how long it takes to hold an election in Venezuela.

For something Maduro doesn't want, like by-elections to replace the MUD representatives he alleges cheated:  forever.  It's been a year and a half now.

For something Maduro REALLY doesn't want, like a recall vote:  ten months, or forever when it's just magically stalled.

For something Maduro DOES want, like a "Constitutent Assembly" stacked with people beholden to him (and including his wife):  three months, start to finish, and they could be sworn in as soon as next week.

This recent rush election is almost as impressive as when the lame duck PSUV National Assembly graciously worked overtime during the holidays to give Maduro the Christmas he wanted before their power expired.

Fascinating what Venezuela CAN do when it wants to.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..while it may be fair to compare maduro to erdogan it is premature to say the outcome will be the same. that the assembly is in his pocket. that a third option can't be presented. 

quote:

GEORGE CICCARIELLO-MAHER:  Sure. I think there are a wide range of what you could understand to be critics, left-wing critics, of the Maduro government—some of these figures, of course, that you’ve heard about, but also, I think, more importantly, on the grassroots level. You know, we need to be very clear about the fact that this is a—this is a revolutionary process that has brought in a great range of participatory social movements and revolutionary grassroots organizers. But for the most part, these are people that have not broken with the government, but are really trying to push and figure out a way to press the government to the left, to encourage a renovation of the commitment to grassroots democracy. These are people who organize in these things that are called communes, where people are directing and managing, you know, production on the local level, in local grassroots democracy, and trying to figure out a way to leverage this government, to press it to the left, and to do so in a very difficult situation of crisis, in which Maduro has been erratic, to be perfectly clear, on the one hand, supporting grassroots organizers, supporting this sort of ferment at the grassroots level, while trying to stabilize the political and economic system in ways that really—that are really distasteful, I think, to many, turning to foreign capital, turning to foreign corporations for investments. And so there’s this tense contradiction that’s going on amid this crisis, and many on the left are dissatisfied, of course. Many Venezuelans are certainly dissatisfied with the state of the economy. And so, you know, the question is really how to stabilize the economy, how to move forward, and how—from the perspective of these left-wing sectors, how to deepen this process, how to, you know, create a situation in which Venezuela can become more socialist, not less, and not turn back simply to the old neoliberal capitalism that failed in the past.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well,  make what you will of it, but I've seen it suggested that Maduro can't lose with the Citizens' Assembly.

If (as anticipated) they serve at his pleasure and grant his wishes then he can (as anticipated) fight tooth-and-nail on their behalf, as "the voice of the PEOPLE".

And if, as you seem to hope they do, they put the people's wishes before his, he has only to do a brief "mea culpa" and say "it's not time" and have the Supreme Court nullify them.

I'm not sure how much sense it really makes to expect them to do anything Maduro doesn't want them to do. 

And I have to wonder what socialist or progressive or just useful thing they're supposed to demand that's not currently an option for Maduro (aside from things currently not compatible with their Constitution, like abolishing powers of immunity).  If the CA is going to say, for example, "we demand only ONE official exchange rate for everyone"... Maduro could do that right now.

NDPP

Trump Imposes Sanctions on Maduro After Venezuelan Constituent Assembly Elections

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/08/01/sanc-a01.html

 

CPR News, July 31, 2017

https://cprnews.podbean.com/e/cpr-news-july-31-2017/

Toni Solo on Venezuela

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin’s announcement that the sanctions will freeze Maduro’s assets in the US and prohibit US citizens from doing business with him is the next step in a deliberate series of escalating measures against the Venezuelan government.

LOL!  The joke's on them, then!

Maduro would NEVER have assets in the U.S., the country he blames for all of his country's woes.

Nor would he EVER want to do any business with the U.S., the country he blames for all of his country's woes.

This is like telling a vegan that they're not allowed to eat suet.

NDPP

US Ignores Saudi Beheading of 14 Activists, Labels Venezuela Dictatorship Despite Elections

http://theantimedia.org/us-trump-saudi-activists-venezuela/

 

"What is the #1 US Interest in Venezuela?"
https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/892675208901005312

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
US Ignores Saudi Beheading of 14 Activists, Labels Venezuela Dictatorship Despite Elections

So if they can ignore SA's obvious authoritarianism, they should at least be fair and ignore Venezuela's, too?

FWIW, I think they should speak out against SA, and I think they should stay 1.5 arm's lengths from Venezuela, but this smacks of someone who got pulled over for running a red light arguing that just the other day he saw someone else run a red without being pulled over.

NDPP

RExxon Tillerson's Petro-Imperially Perfect Regime Change Threat

https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/08/03/rexxon-tillersons-petro-imperial...

"Because we own the world and what we say goes - especially in our own hemisphere. Capice?' Nobody should doubt that Tillerson is signaling Washington's willingness to carry out a coup in Venezuela..."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Venezuela's constitutional assembly votes to remove chief prosecutor

Quote:
Ortega is a longtime loyalist who broke with Maduro's government amid widespread protests in April over what she said was his breaking of Venezuela's constitutional order. 

"You're welcome, Mr. President!"

voice of the damned

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
US Ignores Saudi Beheading of 14 Activists, Labels Venezuela Dictatorship Despite Elections

 

So if they can ignore SA's obvious authoritarianism, they should at least be fair and ignore Venezuela's, too?

FWIW, I think they should speak out against SA, and I think they should stay 1.5 arm's lengths from Venezuela, but this smacks of someone who got pulled over for running a red light arguing that just the other day he saw someone else run a red without being pulled over.

Well, let's say that the red-light laws in your town are treated as a dead-letter, EXCEPT for when the driver is one of a handful of guys known to have slept with the police chief's wife, ie. targeted enforcement, not random, as you seem to imply in your example. That might be a closer comparison to the double-standard going on re: Venezuela/Saudi Arabia. 

6079_Smith_W

What the U.S. or any other country does here is actually a side issue.

Does Trump's hypocrisy justify Maduro's removal of Orgeta from her position?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

What the U.S. or any other country does here is actually a side issue.

Does Trump's hypocrisy justify Maduro's removal of Orgeta from her position?

Why does Trump have any bearing on the internal affairs of a sovereign state and why does the US think it has the right to try to undermine the Venezulan government?

It appears that US backed rich people are causing the worst of the problems by engaging in behaviour that you and most other "progressives" on this board have decried when similar things were done by the Black Bloc at the Olympics . I will grant you that the Black Bloc's targets were inappropriate corporate targets like Starbucks and empty police cars while the Venezuelan freedom fighters prefer clinics and police stations and government buildings including taking potshots at all the really evil people who fuel the totalitarian system. 

What lens does one see the world through is the question for most of these discussions. My lens starts with a rejection of the idea that the US ands NATO are the judges, juries and enforcers of a global justice system.  Strange how all systems that arise that have no checks and balances built in lead to tryanny. The idea that the NATO oligarchy should be running around the world imposing sanctions willy nilly on every country they disagree with is the antithesis of the 50 years of trade negotions that gave us rules like GATT and then WTO. We have truly entered into a state of constant war with the NATO oligarchy seeking to control all the resources they can.

I see the violence in Venezuela and the support our governments give the violence makers and I wonder what Canada would be like if we allowed foreign governments to fund and arm dissident groups in Canada that are currently having their rights trampled by our own democratic state. The Venzuelan people are the only ones  that need to be involved in the debate about how to rule their country. If any Canadian was to appeal to a foreign power to help them in a campaign to illegally and criminally influence internal Canadian politics I would consider them a traitor. I suspect that is why the divide is so great in that country. 

6079_Smith_W

What I asked was this:

What bearing does Trump's double standard on the two countries have on the fact Maduros new  rubber stamp legislature removed the prosecutor (formerly a supporter) who is investigating corruption in his government?

Of course the U.S. isn't the judge. I am more concerned with the fact Ortega IS the judicial official, and she came to work this morning to find it surrounded by the national guard.

Sorry, but "Oh look, a squirrel" isn't an answer.

NDPP

Venezuela Suspends AG Pending Investigation

https://t.co/9gJFZjtDsk

"...Ortega is accused of lying about the alleged 'lack of legitimacy of origin' of 33 judges of the judiciary, to whom she gave the go-ahead in 2015. She is also being investigated for ongoing opposition protests, which has since claimed over 100 lives. Ortega has been suspended from her duties until a verdict is reached."

 

US Condemns Venezuela Opposition Leaders' Return to Jail, Hints At Regime Change

https://venezuelanalysis.com/news/13283

"US President Donald Trump has released an official statement condemning the Maduro administration as a 'dictatorship' for the first time, after right-wing politicians Leopoldo Lopez and Antonio Ledezma were returned to prison Tuesday. Authorities say both men had violated the conditions of their house arrest."

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Anyone want to bet on whether this new Assembly grants Maduro's wishes or not?  I've got a shiny dollar on "they will, and promptly".

Just quoting myself here, from about a week ago.  I even got the "promptly" part right -- the new Citizen's Assembly convened on a weekend for this!  They didn't even make Maduro wait until Monday!

And while I totally get that a revolutionary government needs to silence dissent, I can't help thinking that given all the skepticism surrounding this new supra-legislative assembly, it might have been good PR for them if their first order of business addressed hunger, or crime, or medical care, or the economy, rather than an immediate rush to purge the quislings and traitors. 

Honest to Gord, it's like they said to themselves "what do the naysayers think we're going to do once we have unlimited powers?  Whatever it is, let's do exactly that!"

NDPP

Democracy On Display in Venezuela, 'Fake News' On Display in US

https://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/13286

"One of the most common lies...claimed that the vote in Venezuela gave Nicolas Maduro 'almost unlimited power', a claim which is simply a baldfaced lie. The election accomplished one thing and one thing only - electing members of a new Constitutional Assembly. That Constituent Assembly will propose changes to the Venezuelan Constitution, which will then be voted on by the entire population. What these changes will be is unknown, as is whether they will be approved afterwards."

 

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
ne of the most common lies...claimed that the vote in Venezuela gave Nicolas Maduro 'almost unlimited power', a claim which is simply a baldfaced lie.

Technically correct.  The Citizen's Assembly doesn't directly change Maduro's rights or powers.  At the same time, if they continue to grant his wishes, it's literally even BETTER for him because he can have whatever he wants (e.g. get rid of a troublesome thorn in his side) while at the same time being able to stand aside and say "it wasn't me who did this, it was THE PEOPLE!"

The "tell" was that even before the vote, Maduro was already saying things like "The right wing already has its prison cell waiting".  The new Assembly hadn't even convened yet, but MAGICALLY, Maduro already seemed to know what "the people" would be doing.  Again, "You're welcome, Mr. President".

Quote:
The election accomplished one thing and one thing only - electing members of a new Constitutional Assembly. That Constituent Assembly will propose changes to the Venezuelan Constitution, which will then be voted on by the entire population. What these changes will be is unknown, as is whether they will be approved afterwards."

Except that evidently, their power is not restricted to merely proposing changes (to be later ratified) to the Constitution.   We've just seen the first order of business, and it wasn't the Constitution.

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

..good discussion on real news re the voting processes that just took place.  

Controversy Over Venezuelan Vote Count

The CEO of the company that sold and operates the voting machines in Venezuela says that there was a discrepancy of 1 million votes between the turnout figures announced by the CNE and those recorded by his systems. TRNN correspondent Gregory Wilpert and labor and human rights lawyer Dan Kovalik discuss the implications. Shortly after this interview, CNE president Lucena said the pronouncement was irresponsible and is considering legal action against Smartmatic.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Venezuela is truly fucked because the former ruling elite that has for years been screaming that the constitution is flawed and needs replacing have now become the champions of the constitution they were so anxious to rip up. Of course that constitution includes the means of changing it and that is what the government is doing. The right wing oligarchy and their thugs in the streets said no way we will engage in changing a flawed constitution we instead are going to try to cause chaoas in the streets and disseminate anti-government propaganda to feed the North American media and then call on foreign powers to intervene and overthrow our opponents.

If the Venezuealan opposition leaders were Canadian they would be in jail awaiting trial on charges of treason, sedition and various charges under the anti-terrorism law. But we should just forgive them the brutal indiscretions of inciting to riot and the actions of thier supportrs like murderous race based attacks being conducted by idle rich kids from the "fashionable" neighbourhoods. After all they are fighting for the freedom of the rich to rule unfettered by the rabble.

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