When people in Colorado Springs say no to a tax increase, they really mean it

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Doug
When people in Colorado Springs say no to a tax increase, they really mean it
Michelle

What a bunch of morons.  That's what biblethumpin'll do to you.  Each thump kills a million brain cells.

E.Tamaran

Colorado Springs is the nerve center of the industrial-milirary complex which is completely funded by tax dollars.Peterson Airforce Base, USAF University, NORAD, Cheyene Mountain, War Games, Matthew Broderick...

Snert Snert's picture

"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? Who of you by worrying, say, about what might happen to your house if it catches fire can add a single hour to his life? And why do you worry about clothes, and law enforcement, and libraries... libraries for Lot's sake!? See how the lilies of the field grow. They do not labor or spin or pay taxes. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?"

"So do not worry, saying, `What shall we eat?' or `What shall we drink?' or `What shall we wear?' or 'How shall we see while driving" For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own, particularly 'round these parts."

RosaL

This is of course more or less the Vatican of the Christian right: headquarters of Focus on the Family and other like-minded groups.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

One of the comments that follows the article:

 

I love anarchy. I'm an anti-tax proponent. I believe in eliminating government services. ALL of them. I want to fend for myself. I don't believe in that liberal hoo-hah notion of "common good" or "public good." That's just liberal speak for welfare.

RosaL

Snert wrote:
"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.  etc

There are good arguments in support of the proposition that the words you are parodying were spoken to Jesus' followers who lived communally, sharing pretty much everything they had. That was why they didn't need to worry and that was how they would be fed. 

RosaL

E.Tamaran wrote:

Colorado Springs is the nerve center of the industrial-milirary complex which is completely funded by tax dollars.Peterson Airforce Base, USAF University, NORAD, Cheyene Mountain, War Games, Matthew Broderick...

Yes, that too. It's not a happy combination Frown

E.Tamaran

Hey, guess what? I got some good weed. 4:20 right now LOLCool

Doug

Snert wrote:
"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. 

 

Shows what they knew about birds.

Boom Boom Boom Boom's picture

I was in Denver a few years ago, lots of rich folk there who I think would not put up with this kind of thing (city services being shut down in Colorado Springs), but who knows.

remind remind's picture

perhaps this action more than anything will discredit the FOTF ijiots?

 

As their little piece of the universe will not be so special shortly.

 

and  safety meeting time is not for another 20 minutes.

Doug
Sven Sven's picture

Actually, there's nothing inherently wrong with the idea of eliminating 12th grade.  Just because we've had 12 grades for a long time doesn't mean it's always going to be the ideal number.  If students could be properly educated in 11 years rather than 12, why not?

The problem is, too many people are not getting educated after even 12 years.  So, maybe that is an argument for adding a 13th grade?!

Snert Snert's picture

Ontario used to have a Grade 13, and dropped it.

Le T Le T's picture

Quote:
Ontario used to have a Grade 13, and dropped it.

 

Yup, and for the same reason. It lead to many more people dropping out or failing. It also lead to faster streaming of students and a curriculum focused almost exclusivley on tech/science/math listen and repeat.

Snert Snert's picture

I was still in school when there was a Grade 13, but I certainly don't remember the curriculum as being somehow focused on math or science.  There were pretty much the same options in G13 as in G12, including several English courses, Geography, and so on.

Stargazer

I think we should just eliminate all high school. Hell, after grade 8 they're ready for university or a good job. Right?

Snert Snert's picture

Well, it's kind of hard to argue that Grade 11 and Grade 12 are somehow crucial, when we allow anyone who wants to to quit school, and those grades, as soon as they're 16.  Not old enough to drive alone or at night, not old enough to buy a drink or a cigarette, not old enough to vote at the federal, provincial or municipal level, and not old enough to get a tiny little tweetybird tattoo, but old enough to decide that they now have sufficient edumacation to make it in the world, evidently!

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I think this will make great fodder for South Park.  This town is beside some of the largest military bases in America.  It is heart warming to know that these are the people who have decided they should enforce their "democracy" on others.  i wonder how much corporate money was involved in buying TV ads to endure that there can be no mutual aid.  The poster quoted above has obviously never read an anarchist writer.

 

Mutual aid is the answer to corporate greed.

RosaL

Snert wrote:

Well, it's kind of hard to argue that Grade 11 and Grade 12 are somehow crucial, when we allow anyone who wants to to quit school, and those grades, as soon as they're 16.  Not old enough to drive alone or at night, not old enough to buy a drink or a cigarette, not old enough to vote at the federal, provincial or municipal level, and not old enough to get a tiny little tweetybird tattoo, but old enough to decide that they now have sufficient edumacation to make it in the world, evidently!

Well, it would be counter-productive to actually educate them, but it does keep them off the street at a time of high unemployment. 

Polunatic2

Quote:
Hell, after grade 8 they're ready for university or a good job. Right?
Or prison.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Snert wrote:

Well, it's kind of hard to argue that Grade 11 and Grade 12 are somehow crucial, when we allow anyone who wants to to quit school, and those grades, as soon as they're 16.  Not old enough to drive alone or at night, not old enough to buy a drink or a cigarette, not old enough to vote at the federal, provincial or municipal level, and not old enough to get a tiny little tweetybird tattoo, but old enough to decide that they now have sufficient edumacation to make it in the world, evidently!

Yup those teenagers should be chained to their desks and told they have to go to school.  I am sure their learning outcomes from being forced to go after 16 will really improve. Our dropout rates are a function of many things not lest of which is that kids from poorer families have to way the cost benefit analysis.  

if they are not really academically gifted they might make it through an undergrad degree if they stay in school.  That will leave them $30,000 or more in debt and qualified to do the same jobs as if they had a grade 11 education.  Of course that is only the majority of the poorer students who will go to university.  There is always the other group who hang out with the rich kids and end up with good jobs from their connections but many people have a reflex vomit response to toadying to the wealthy.

Stargazer

Drop out and work for the man. Good plan.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Mortgage your future on the hopes of getting a better job working for the man.  Hard choice when the debt is certain and the rewards are uncertain.  

The problem is we are not giving our young people a good plan.  We need to give our students the opportunity to get higher education if they have the academic ability without amassing debt loads that are crushing.  That is the only sane thing to do as a society if we want an educated workforce not expect young people to carry an unreasonable financial burden.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
Yup those teenagers should be chained to their desks and told they have to go to school.

 

That's pretty close to what we do from age 5-15.

 

Fortunately, at 12:01 am on your 16th birthday a miracle occurs and you now have the good adult judgement to make decisions that will affect your entire future. Well, excluding all of those that I noted above, like buying a beer.

 

Quote:
but many people have a reflex vomit response to toadying to the wealthy.

 

Is this getting uncomfortably autobiographical? Or else where did this little piece of weird come from? I don't recall a whole lot of "toadying" from high school, nor was I aware that as someone from a blue collar family, I was expected to "toady", nor that "toadying" could have been my ticket to easy street.

Stargazer

Stargazer wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Mortgage your future on the hopes of getting a better job working for the man.  Hard choice when the debt is certain and the rewards are uncertain.  

The problem is we are not giving our young people a good plan.  We need to give our students the opportunity to get higher education if they have the academic ability without amassing debt loads that are crushing.  That is the only sane thing to do as a society if we want an educated workforce not expect young people to carry an unreasonable financial burden.

 

That's why we should have universal education, or reinstall the grant system, at the very least.

BTW, I'm unsure why we should think that life without the option of education is good. Isn't it bad enough that the right equates education with "liberal elites"? Why in the world would we be jumping on the same bandwagon? I'm not saying education is the answer to everyone's problem but it sure does help to have some education no? I mean, at least a high school education.We do have to deal with reality here.

Has anyone else not entertained the very real possibility that should this become more common (eliminating grade 12, etc.) the people who will be affected most are those from the lower class? Are we seriously naive enough to think that school in poor areas won't be the first to turf grade 12. Hey, if the budget is over the next year, maybe they can eliminate grade 11! Wow, so cool huh?

Stargazer

dp

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
Are we seriously naive enough to think that school in poor areas won't be the first to turf grade 12.

If cutting Grade 12 is to be a response to financial difficulties then I guess it wouldn't really suprise me if the poorest areas did so first.
But my bet is that it would be done across the province, not school by school (as when we dropped Grade 13) and perhaps private schools would try to fill the gap for those who could afford them.

Michelle

Which would be another huge problem, wouldn't it?  In that case, it would really be ensuring that only the rich are educated and get into post-secondary programs.

Doug

Pretty much. I can very easily see colleges deciding that the Utah diploma just isn't good enough so students applying must take other courses - which the colleges would be happy to allow them to pay for.

Stargazer

Exactly Michelle and Doug.

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:

Pretty much. I can very easily see colleges deciding that the Utah diploma just isn't good enough so students applying must take other courses - which the colleges would be happy to allow them to pay for.

 

I forgot we were talking about Utah.  I suppose they could use their "extra" year to teach them about evolution and the dinosaurs and such.  Probably wouldn't hurt regardless.

G. Muffin

Haven't read the thread, Snert, and I don't intend to. What extra year? You want to teach Utans? I don't think so. Thetans, maybe.