Whya re babblers so obsessed with the UK?

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swallow swallow's picture
Whya re babblers so obsessed with the UK?

?

voice of the damned

Um, talking about the politics of a country means you're obsessed? I'm not sure I'd really concur with that defintion.

If you're saying we don't need as many threads about the UK as we have, I might go along with that. But there is a tendency among at least a couple of posters here to multiply threads about one topic, so that's sort of the way it is.

 

 

voice of the damned

And if you're looking for reasons, besides idiosyncratic interest, why the UK warrants attention, well, we're talking about the nation that bequeathed us our parliamentary system, more or less started the Industrial Revolution, pretty much invented liberalism as we know it, used to rule close to half the planet, gave the world its lingua franca, and lent us the concept and word "Thatcherism" to describe the dominant economic ideology of the last forty years.

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

My own reasons for posting about the UK are as follows:

1)I genuinely admire Jeremy Corbyn and the things his supporters and him fight for, and believe they would have won every electoral test since 2015 had it not been for the endless sabotage campaign his party's MPs have waged against him and against those who stand with him;

2)It's my conviction that Labour not only cannot win any future elections if it abandons what the Corbyn movement stands for and reduces itself, once again, to Blairism-as its opponents in the PLP are obsessed with forcing it to do-but that it will likely fall apart as a party altogether, since there is no good reason for Labour to revert to being the second party of war and austerity;

3) It genuinely angers me that this man and these people have been slandered and vilified, have endlessly been accused of vile things that everyone with a functioning central nervous system knows they could not possibly have been guilty of, and know that there is no way any greater good can ever be served by what Corbyn's opponents within the party have done to him and to his supporters from day one;

4) And on Europe, it is clear to me that it isn't possible for Corbyn to do what his opponents in the party demand, and put what all of them know to be a hopeless fight to overturn Brexit while the Tory government remains in power ahead of all other concerns in the universe, without splitting the party for all time; therefore I can see no valid reason for the relentless pressure being placed on this man on this issue;

5) I don't want to see Labour become a party no young voter will ever support again.  That is what would have to happen if the PLP got its way and imposed as "moderate" as leader.  Young voters in the UK will never trust a Labour leader who defends the Iraq War, is fine with austerity, and wants Labour policy-making to be the sole preserve of cynical middle-aged reactionaries who think Labour shouldn't be about anything other than alternating with the Tories in the administration of permanent sameness.

 

 

swallow swallow's picture

Thanks. It just surprises me that the politics of a European offshore island attracts so more attention than, say, Thailand or India or Indonesia or Brazil. 

Misfit Misfit's picture

voice of the damned wrote:

And if you're looking for reasons, besides idiosyncratic interest, why the UK warrants attention, well, we're talking about the nation that bequeathed us our parliamentary system, more or less started the Industrial Revolution, pretty much invented liberalism as we know it, used to rule close to half the planet, gave the world its lingua franca, and lent us the concept and word "Thatcherism" to describe the dominant economic ideology of the last forty years.

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

You forgot sticky hot toffee pudding with custard.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Misfit wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

And if you're looking for reasons, besides idiosyncratic interest, why the UK warrants attention, well, we're talking about the nation that bequeathed us our parliamentary system, more or less started the Industrial Revolution, pretty much invented liberalism as we know it, used to rule close to half the planet, gave the world its lingua franca, and lent us the concept and word "Thatcherism" to describe the dominant economic ideology of the last forty years.

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

You forgot sticky hot toffee pudding with custard.

And, er...THIS:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spotted_dick

josh

Why not.

swallow swallow's picture

Now a thread on English food I could get behind. 

What's worse, semolina or bread pudding? 

MegB

swallow wrote:

Now a thread on English food I could get behind. 

What's worse, semolina or bread pudding? 

English cooking has improved a lot over the years. As a kid my mother cooked the way her English Mum taught her - everything boiled to a uniform shade of grey to be as tasteless as possible. Though I do recall having liked bread pudding.

bekayne

So what's roast beef and Yorkshire pudding? Chopped liver?

bekayne

voice of the damned wrote:

And if you're looking for reasons, besides idiosyncratic interest, why the UK warrants attention, well, we're talking about the nation that bequeathed us our parliamentary system, more or less started the Industrial Revolution, pretty much invented liberalism as we know it, used to rule close to half the planet, gave the world its lingua franca, and lent us the concept and word "Thatcherism" to describe the dominant economic ideology of the last forty years.

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

"Soccer" or "The Beatles" would have been valid answers as well.

Mobo2000

I'm going to insert the obligatory Monty Python reference here:

ARTHUR: How do you do, good lady? I am Arthur, King of the Britons. Who's castle is that?

WOMAN: King of the who?

ARTHUR: The Britons.

WOMAN: Who are the Britons?

ARTHUR: Well, we all are. We are all Britons, and I am your king.

WOMAN: I didn't know we had a king. I thought we were an autonomous collective.

DENNIS: You're fooling yourself. We're living in a dictatorship: a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes--

WOMAN: Oh, there you go bringing class into it again.

DENNIS: That's what it's all about. If only people would hear of--

ARTHUR: Please! Please, good people. I am in haste. Who lives in that castle?

WOMAN: No one lives there.

ARTHUR: Then who is your lord?

WOMAN: We don't have a lord.

ARTHUR: What?

DENNIS: I told you. We're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week,...

ARTHUR: Yes.

DENNIS: ...but all the decisions of that officer have to be ratified at a special bi-weekly meeting...

ARTHUR: Yes, I see.

DENNIS: ...by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,...

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: ...but by a two-thirds majority in the case of more major--

ARTHUR: Be quiet! I order you to be quiet!

WOMAN: Order, eh? Who does he think he is? Heh.

ARTHUR: I am your king!

WOMAN: Well, I didn't vote for you.

ARTHUR: You don't vote for kings.

WOMAN: Well, how did you become King, then?

ARTHUR: The Lady of the Lake,...

[angels sing]

...her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water signifying by Divine Providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur.

[singing stops]

That is why I am your king!

DENNIS: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.

ARTHUR: Be quiet!

DENNIS: Well, but you can't expect to wield supreme executive power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

ARTHUR: Shut up, will you? Shut up!

DENNIS: Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.

ARTHUR: Shut up!

DENNIS: Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system! Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

ARTHUR: Bloody peasant!

DENNIS: Oh, what a give-away. Did you hear that? Did you hear that, eh? That's what I'm on about. Did you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

MegB wrote:

swallow wrote:

Now a thread on English food I could get behind. 

What's worse, semolina or bread pudding? 

English cooking has improved a lot over the years. As a kid my mother cooked the way her English Mum taught her - everything boiled to a uniform shade of grey to be as tasteless as possible. Though I do recall having liked bread pudding.

What I've heard is that British food was as bad as it was for such a long time was that the Industrial Revolution destroyed the peasant class in England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales-that it's the peasant class in any country which does the great cooking and without that you get...well, mushy peas, I guess.

bekayne

Anyone for swan?

Image result for porterhouse blue swans

WWWTT

voice of the damned wrote:

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

I call BS!

Britain screwd the world over, but somehow has veto powers at the UN? How is that important?

Big waste of time going no where country.

 

WWWTT

swallow wrote:

Thanks. It just surprises me that the politics of a European offshore island attracts so more attention than, say, Thailand or India or Indonesia or Brazil. 

I think this fact just shows that babble has limited background posters.

NorthReport

Oh come on, you have to like their command of the English language, and the many creative ways it is used in their commercials for example!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

NorthReport wrote:

Oh come on, you have to like their command of the English language, and the many creative ways it is used in their commercials for example!

You're saying that it's impressive for the English to have a command of the English language-a language they invented?  Wouldn't it be kind of terrifying if they didn't have such command?

voice of the damned

WWWTT wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

I call BS!

Britain screwd the world over, but somehow has veto powers at the UN? How is that important?

Big waste of time going no where country.

 

I said important things happen in the UK. Not neccessarily progressive things. See, for example, my references to the Empire and Thatcherism, neither of which I am in favour of. 

And, justified or not, the fact that they do have that UN veto is another thing that makes them somewhat worth discussing, I'd say. 

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

There's an interest simply because the UK is one of this country's former colonial overlords.

Many of this country's institutions for good or for bad were modelled or drew inspiration from institutions in the UK.

The CBC was "sort of" modelled after the BBC, the CCF/NDP was somewhat modelled after the UK Labour Party and our limited public medicare system drew inspiration from the NHS in the post-war UK.

Many of us in Canada are looking to influences from the current leadership of the UK Labour Party (and Bernie Sanders to the south of us) for inspiration on how to move a more radical political agenda forward.

The UK is currently in the midst of a major and on-going political crisis as a result of the Brexit referendum.   We're interested in how left-wing folks are able to maneuver through what is obviously a political dog's breakfast...not that we haven't had political dog's breakfasts of our own.

I would say that since about the 1970's, when refugees from the Chilean fascist junta started arriving in this country, along with the refugees from other parts of Latin America since, we have taken much more interest in the politics of countries to the south of the US...and that's a good thing.   It's a big world and we should pay much more attention to it.
 

WWWTT

voice of the damned wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

So, it tends to be a place where important things happen, to say the least.

I call BS!

Britain screwd the world over, but somehow has veto powers at the UN? How is that important?

Big waste of time going no where country.

 

I said important things happen in the UK. Not neccessarily progressive things. See, for example, my references to the Empire and Thatcherism, neither of which I am in favour of. 

And, justified or not, the fact that they do have that UN veto is another thing that makes them somewhat worth discussing, I'd say. 

WTF?

That's like saying nazi Germany was important.

Kudos to swallow for starting a thread for posters that don't like Britain (ya that's what I'm turning it into)

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

WTF?

That's like saying nazi Germany was important.

Kudos to swallow for starting an thread for posters that don't like Britain (ya that's what I'm turning it into)

NAZI Germany is a tiny itzy bitsy teeny weeny footnote in history. How different would our world be now if Hitler never came to power?

And starting an anti-Britain thread makes a lot of sense here since it will go along so well with the anti-China threads!!!!!!!!!!

 

NorthReport

Not anti-China but anti-totalitarianism, eh!

But if the shoe fits....

WWWTT

No actually it's anti-Communism when you take off all that wrapping you and Ken Burch like to use.

JKR

I have few qualms with China or Chinese communism. I think China has to resist the allure of being too totalitarian in order to preserve order in a country that’s expanding rapidly. Totalitarianism destroyed communism in Eastern Europe and from their own history China likely understands more than anyone how Totalitarianism can quickly set a communist country back a generation or two. I think the Chinese government has a lot of very difficult problems to deal with as they are progressing rapidly on many fronts and their continued progress requires maintaining law and order. Here in Canada we take for granted our very high level of law and order that allows our society to thrive. I think China is progressing rapidly and that this will benefit the world. 

swallow swallow's picture

Hey, I like the UK. It's Brit-tastic. 

But I agree the reason it gets disproportionate attention from babblers is colonialism and "limited background" of posters (like, it's 90% white dudes here, right? Babble isn't really a feminist and anti-racist space any more). 

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

No actually it's anti-Communism when you take off all that wrapping you and Ken Burch like to use.

Anti-Stalinism, not "Anti-Communism".  I have no issue with the original ideals of communism;  I simply reject the idea that dictatorship and an unaccountable, undemocratic Party are necessary to build.  And I don't want the PRC brought down and replaced with a capitalist restoration.

I'm no Cold Warrior.

NorthReport

Unfortunately

swallow wrote:

Hey, I like the UK. It's Brit-tastic. 

But I agree the reason it gets disproportionate attention from babblers is colonialism and "limited background" of posters (like, it's 90% white dudes here, right? Babble isn't really a feminist and anti-racist space any more). 

 

radiorahim radiorahim's picture

England in particular is the place where common lands were enclosed, the peasants kicked out and forced to move to towns and cities to figure out how to feed themselves,  the land was used to raise sheep for wool...and along the way, this thing called industrial capitalism happened.

JKR

In a historic decision the Supreme Court in the UK has just ruled that PM Boris Johnson’s [and the Crown’s] prorogation of the UK Parliament was illegal! If sanity prevailed now Boris would have to  resign for lying to the Queen but that very likely won’t happen. As a Commonwealth nation I think this decision might effect Canada as the legalities of prorogation have also been debated here. This kind of decision might have prevented PM Stephen Harper from prorogating Parliament here in Canada. I think many of the recent events associated with the UK and Brexit have been historic for a Commonwealth nation and  people shouldn’t be surprised that it’s getting so much attention.

voice of the damned

Not to be pedantic, but...

As a Commonwealth nation I think this decision might effect Canada as the legalities of prorogation have also been debated here.

It's not our status as a Commonwealth nation that would be relevant here, since there are many Commonwealth countries which are republics and are not obligated to follow the British parliamentary system any more than they want to.

I believe the term for a Commonwealth country which maintains the monarchy is "Commonwealth Realm", but I'm not certain as to what degree that obligates us to follow British rulings about things like prorogation. I do know that when, for example, Mulroney wanted to add more seats to the Senate, he was required to get permission from the Queen, and had to send an envoy to London, IOW the Governor-General couldn't just act as her stand-in. So evidently there are still some formal connections there.

quizzical

Radiorahim glad i came across your posts.  they gave me heart and knowledge. 

JKR came to this thread to see if anyone knew whether this prorogation is illegal decision would impact Canada and PMs who would try this again.

it might be vitally important to us if this election creates a minority government.

WWWTT

Ken Burch wrote:

WWWTT wrote:

No actually it's anti-Communism when you take off all that wrapping you and Ken Burch like to use.

Anti-Stalinism, not "Anti-Communism".  I have no issue with the original ideals of communism;  I simply reject the idea that dictatorship and an unaccountable, undemocratic Party are necessary to build.  And I don't want the PRC brought down and replaced with a capitalist restoration.

I'm no Cold Warrior.

OK fair enough then. I'll try to keep this in mind in our future discussions

WWWTT

radiorahim wrote:

England in particular is the place where common lands were enclosed, the peasants kicked out and forced to move to towns and cities to figure out how to feed themselves,  the land was used to raise sheep for wool...and along the way, this thing called industrial capitalism happened.

Excellent display of ignorance.

China invented money. China invented the use of fossil fuels. China invented the compass and gunpowder, making colonialism/imperialism happen.

But I'm 100% positive that I myself am ignorant of many other countries cultures and peoples around the world.

I agree with swallow, the posters here come from a narrow background. A wider variety of posters will only bring more interest in different subject/topics/issues

WWWTT

JKR wrote:

In a historic decision the Supreme Court in the UK has just ruled that PM Boris Johnson’s [and the Crown’s] prorogation of the UK Parliament was illegal! If sanity prevailed now Boris would have to  resign for lying to the Queen but that very likely won’t happen. As a Commonwealth nation I think this decision might effect Canada as the legalities of prorogation have also been debated here. This kind of decision might have prevented PM Stephen Harper from prorogating Parliament here in Canada. I think many of the recent events associated with the UK and Brexit have been historic for a Commonwealth nation and  people shouldn’t be surprised that it’s getting so much attention.

LOL what a funny comment in this thread!

I think this thread is about or leans towards not liking British politics. And you're trying to hijack it into another England politics thread.LOL

JKR

WWWTT wrote:

JKR wrote:

In a historic decision the Supreme Court in the UK has just ruled that PM Boris Johnson’s [and the Crown’s] prorogation of the UK Parliament was illegal! If sanity prevailed now Boris would have to  resign for lying to the Queen but that very likely won’t happen. As a Commonwealth nation I think this decision might effect Canada as the legalities of prorogation have also been debated here. This kind of decision might have prevented PM Stephen Harper from prorogating Parliament here in Canada. I think many of the recent events associated with the UK and Brexit have been historic for a Commonwealth nation and  people shouldn’t be surprised that it’s getting so much attention.

LOL what a funny comment in this thread!

I think this thread is about or leans towards not liking British politics. And you're trying to hijack it into another England politics thread.LOL

I think it’s funny how your view of the world seems to be limited to how much you dislike things and people in it! LOL