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AIPAC Is A Criminal Organization (and vid)

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2010/03/desrhowitz-explains-how-c...

"AIPAC is a criminal organization. That the people of the US allow it to hold conferences is a mark of American un-freedom.."

johnpauljones

thanks for the link. i have never heard of jews san frontiers......

Prophit

Continuing the nonsence and libel. You can disagree all you want with AIPAC but wrongly referring to the organization as criminal is libelous.

al-Qa'bong

How about correctly referring to the organisation as criminal?

Unionist

Prophit wrote:

Continuing the nonsence and libel. You can disagree all you want with AIPAC but wrongly referring to the organization as criminal is libelous.

After you advise AIPAC to call their lawyers, you may also want to notify that anti-human dreg Dershowitz that his good name is also being dragged through the mud:

Quote:
Dershowitz is a liar, a bully, a plagiarist and an impostor...

These Jews sans frontières really seem to recognize no boundaries...

 

remind remind's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:
How about correctly referring to the organisation as criminal?

:D :D

Prophit

Is it any wonder given how some have no compunction but to act like namecalling bullies that even amongst others on the left Babble is looked at with some embarassment. Hell you can dislike AIPAC for all good reasons but when you morph into childlike silliness you just harm the integrity of this Board.

aka Mycroft

Prophit wrote:

Continuing the nonsence and libel. You can disagree all you want with AIPAC but wrongly referring to the organization as criminal is libelous.

Weren't several executive members of AIPAC indicted a few years ago for violating the Espionage Act, 1917?

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Prophit wrote:

Is it any wonder given how some have no compunction but to act like namecalling bullies that even amongst others on the left Babble is looked at with some embarassment. Hell you can dislike AIPAC for all good reasons but when you morph into childlike silliness you just harm the integrity of this Board.

 

Quote:

I am almost afraid to post. I'm sure Michelle will accuse me of being part of the calvary. You see anyone who disagrees with popular opinion is lumped together and demonized. Familiar tactic.

...

Honestly I feel very sorry for people like Unionist and Michelle. leaving aside the issue itself, to be on a politically active board such as this and know so litlte of the inner workings of party politics is just really sad.

Quote:

aka Mycroft, is this a Babble solidarity test you are demanding of Jaku? Seems to me whenever any issue dealing with such matters arise, you make all kinds of demands on her.

I love the smell of irony in the morning.

 

skdadl

The case against the two AIPAC employees was dropped by prosecutors last year, although Lawrence Franklin, the Pentagon employee who passed information to them and others, some of which he admitted could have been detrimental to U.S. security interests, was initially convicted and sentenced to 12+ years in jail.

 

[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Franklin_espionage_scandal]It's an interesting case.[/URL] The prosecutors backed out because of standards the judge set for production of evidence, whereupon the judge reduced Franklin's sentence to house arrest and community service.

Unionist

While AIPAC spends countless time, efforts, and millions championing international outlaws, aggressors, and mass murderers, Prophit protests that they haven't been found guilty of violating any criminal law in the U.S.

Neither has George W. Bush. Or Richard Nixon. Or Henry Kissinger.

I don't recall Adolf Hitler being found guilty of anything criminal after the Munich beer hall putsch either. He didn't even stand trial at Nuremburg.

So I'll just apologize to Prophit and acknowledge that AIPAC is to be presumed innocent along with the others I've mentioned.

 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

This seems like a good place to post this:

Quote:

With Israel seeking to keep large settlement blocs under any deal, Benvenisti said only 40 percent of West Bank land was actually up for discussion, making Palestinian statehood unviable.

Even Western aid to the Palestinians of an annual $2 billion, which is intended to boost the economy, is really perpetuating Israeli control in the West Bank by funding Palestinian adaptation to the fact of occupation, he added. "We have to change the vocabulary of the conflict," Benvenisti said. He called for dropping the two-state paradigm for discussion of a joint "bi-national regime."

Israeli settlements buried two-state solution -expert

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

it's clear that Israel can no longer count on U.S. support no matter what it does, because the political atmosphere here is changing so fast. There are countless thousands of Donell Weinkopfs throughout the United States, Jews who would not have dreamed of criticizing Israel a few years ago, but are now thinking for themselves rather than offering knee-jerk praise.

Some of them were surely among the respondents to the latest poll of American Jewish opinion. A few of the most striking findings:

  • 82% want the U.S. to "play an active role" in the Israel-Palestine peace process
  • 71% want the U.S. to exert pressure on both sides to make compromises for peace
  • Fully half stick want U.S. involvement even if it means the U.S. exerting pressure on Israel alone to make compromises 
  • Asked whether U.S. criticisms of Israel should be made in public, more Jews say "yes" than "no"
  • 69% voted for Obama and 62% still approve of the job he's doing (far higher than the overall public's rating of the president)
  • Obama's favorable rating is 15 points higher than Netanyahu's.

It's also worth noting that Israel and Judaism are not very central in the lives of this sampling of American Jews:

  • Asked to name the TWO most important issues facing our country, only 10% put Israel on their short list
  • Well over half said they did not follow the controversy surrounding Biden's visit to Israel closely or at all
  • Only 23% attend synagogue services more than a few times a year, and only 39% attend activities of other Jewish groups

Why AIPAC Feels 'Like Shit'

 

Jaku

In other words AIPAC has been maligned here as a "criminal organization"

skdadl

It's true, I think, that the FBI wouldn't put it that way, Jaku, just as they have not called the JDL a terrorist organization, as far as I know. In the case of the JDL, they just say that it has engaged in terrorist activities.

 

I misspend some of my time fascinated by turf wars within the U.S. government. Far be it from me ever to whitewash some of the truly loopy things that the FBI do (track sales of ingredients for making falafels, eg, or help to kidnap Maher Arar, that sort of thing), but if you watch them long enough, you do start to get the feeling that they kinda sorta know the law and many of them actually care about it. Strange, I know, but true. And what Franklin did obviously really bugged them (pun pure serendipity).

 

Reading between the lines, though (and one always is with those fascinating Merkins, eh?), it's pretty clear that Franklin was Douglas Feith's man in that cute little parallel operation Feith set up within the Pentagon called the Office of Special Plans (OSP), godfathered by Paul Wolfowitz, and that gets us pretty high up in the Bush/Rummy Pentagon, who weren't really all that chummy with the FBI. CIA not chummy with the FBI either. In fact parts of the DoJ, to which the FBI belong, weren't all that chummy with the FBI during those years. Pesky criminal investigators, eh? Keep turning up actual evidence instead of sexy "intel." And we can't have that, can we.

 

But that's all in the past, and these days, we're just looking forward, right?

al-Qa'bong

Jaku wrote:

In other words AIPAC has been maligned here as a "criminal organization"

 

Cry me a river..without diverting the water to your settlements.

Arab resistance groups have been called terrorist organisations by my government, which has made it illegal to support their struggle against oppression and occupation.

 

 

Peech

Can you clarify which Arab resistance groups in particular you are referring to?

milo204

Who really cares if AIPAC is or isn't "criminal" in the classical sense.  They advocate international crimes, openly and with the full support of both Israel and the US, which in turn commit them.

that is reason enough to oppose them for me.

al-Qa'bong

Peech wrote:

Can you clarify which Arab resistance groups in particular you are referring to?

 

Coyness from Peech?  You know which groups are considered illegal in Canada.

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

milo204 wrote:

Who really cares if AIPAC is or isn't "criminal" in the classical sense.  They advocate international crimes, openly and with the full support of both Israel and the US, which in turn commit them.

that is reason enough to oppose them for me.

Amen.

Jaku

milo204 wrote:

Who really cares if AIPAC is or isn't "criminal" in the classical sense.  They advocate international crimes, openly and with the full support of both Israel and the US, which in turn commit them.

that is reason enough to oppose them for me.

Oppose them? Why not? Wrongly malign? Not so much

Unionist

Jaku wrote:

In other words AIPAC has been maligned here as a "criminal organization"

I agree with Jaku. Until AIPAC has been proved guilty of supporting and financing aggression, war, mass murder, genocide, racism, assassination, state-sponsored terrorism, and apartheid, they ought to be "presumed" innocent - the same as George W. Bush, Henry Kissinger, and Osama Bin Laden.

Don't you people support due process?

The first step would be to get a warrant and arrest the scumbags. Then we take it from there.

 

skdadl

Tell me, Jaku: if I were to call Dick Cheney a war criminal, would I be wrongly maligning him? In spite of the fact that he has confessed repeatedly on international TV to having committed war crimes (as traditionally defined)?

 

And if I were to call him a war criminal, do you think he would take legal action against me? If so, how far down the list of people who have already called him a war criminal do you think I would be? Give or take a million, y'know.

Jaku

Dick Cheney has much to answer for but yes you would be legally libeling him. He could sue you and you could present many arguments and maybe win. Not the point skdadl. Its a nice strawman but you know its not the point.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

In the US, Jaku, it's essentially impossible for a public figure to win a libel judgment against anyone.  This is why many public figures file libel actions not in the US but in the UK, where they CAN win even if the material published about them is factually correct. 

Prophit

Jaku, legality and civility is simply not the issue.

skdadl

But it is the point. The prosecutions are there to be pursued, but in the land of looking forward, the only people who are going to be prosecuted are all those people who've been tortured for years at GTMO, the vast majority of them entirely innocent and one of them a child soldier who is also a Canadian citizen, but all of them with one thing in common: they are Muslim.

 

One bit of good news: two more of the GTMO Uighurs, a pair of brothers, are being transferred out of that hellhole, this time to Switzerland. God bless them, and God bless the Swiss. Given where they come from (the autonomous region right next to Mongolia), they should be able to teach the Swiss a few things about fondue.

Peech

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Peech wrote:

Can you clarify which Arab resistance groups in particular you are referring to?

 

Coyness from Peech?  You know which groups are considered illegal in Canada.

 

I don't suppose that one of these Arab "resistance" groups could be Hamas

 by any chance?? Wink

 

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

Hamas has killed far fewer innocent people than the Zionist state with the cheerleading and political cover of the racial supremacist, and criminal AIPAC. That doesn't mean that Hamas is innocent of anything, just that what Canada declares "terrorist" and "ally" is ideologically governed and has not a thing to do with justice, human rights, or truth. Our government, one might recall, would have declared Jewish resistance to Nazi Germany "terrorism" right up to the day war was declared by Britain.

Jaku

Thank you FM for jumping the shark ...just irresistable to use a Nazi analogy isn't it?...some people just never learn

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

It is not an analogy. It is a historical reality. If you could learn from history you would understand that a peaceful state committed to justice can't be founded on the blood and broken bones of another people and you would stop apologizing for Zionist racism and work, instead, for Palestinian justice. Do you really support the violent repression and dispossession of Palestinians by an ideologically racist government? How can you? What button turned off your humanity?

Peech

Frustrated Mess wrote:

Hamas has killed far fewer innocent people than the Zionist state with the cheerleading and political cover of the racial supremacist, and criminal AIPAC. That doesn't mean that Hamas is innocent of anything, just that what Canada declares "terrorist" and "ally" is ideologically governed and has not a thing to do with justice, human rights, or truth. Our government, one might recall, would have declared Jewish resistance to Nazi Germany "terrorism" right up to the day war was declared by Britain.

 

Oh my, the "proportionality" argument used to justify murder? I don't know whether to vomit or laugh at your hypocrisy. Hamas is an organization that by it's charter advocates the murder of all Jews and de facto carries it out on a lessor scale albeit simply because of of its ineptitude.Your analogy to Jewish resistance groups of the Nazis is intellectually dishonest at best. You are disgusting and have gone too far even by your low standards.

I have family members who were victims of an Arab "resistance" group when one of it's members decided to "resist" life by strapping explosives to his body and blow himself up killing teenagers who were guilty of the crime of eating lunch.

The only way towards peace is to condemn ALL acts of violence and not defend murder as some sort of politically correct fucking bull shit. Israel is rightfully criticized and condemned for it's oppression and mistreatment of the Palestinians in the territories and by continuing to build settlements.

But murder is murder.

Unionist

Peech wrote:
I don't know whether to vomit or laugh at your hypocrisy.

You're not looking for suggestions, are you?

 

al-Qa'bong

Peech wrote:

 But murder is murder.

 

Quote:

Israeli troops shot dead two Palestinians in the occupied West Bank today amid a new descent into violence.

The two, who Palestinians claimed were detained while ploughing a field of olive trees near Nablus, were shot several times. Palestinian officials said both were 17.

 

Palestinians shot dead by Israeli troops near Nablus

Two teenagers killed day after boys, 15 and 17, shot in village

NDPP

4 Cousins And Their Funerals:

http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/03/22/four-cousins-and-their...

"These attacks and abuses, by soldiers and settlers, have long been documented by human rights organizations. But like so many abuses that are part of daily life under Israeli occupation here, the lives and plight of so many, only catching world attention when they become news.."

The Jerusalem 'Compromise'

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/03/the-jerusalem-compromise/

"the signs are that Barack Obama could be just as ready to accommodate the Israeli consensus on east Jerusalem as the previous Bush administration was in backing Israel's position on keeping the overwhelming majority of W. Bank settlers in their homes on occupied Palestinian lands. Obama still has no stomach to take on Israel.."

Netanyahu's Ring and the Legitimacy of Zionism

http://dissidentvoice.org/2010/03/netanyahu%e2%80%99s-ring-and-the-legit...

"There you have it folks. If your name is Bejamin Netanyahu, what more justification do you need to expropriate land from the native Palestinians.."

Barghouti: Not even Netanyahu Can Erase Jerusalem History

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=270862

"No attempt to Judaize Jerusalem will delete Palestinian history from the city.."

Caissa

Thread drift/ Everytime I see this title a vision of a giant waiting room pops into my mind./ end thread drift.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Peech wrote:

The only way towards peace is to condemn ALL acts of violence and not defend murder as some sort of politically correct fucking bull shit. Israel is rightfully criticized and condemned for it's oppression and mistreatment of the Palestinians in the territories and by continuing to build settlements.

But murder is murder.

You did not say that Israel commits murder.  You only say one is murder not the other.  

Come on live up to your platitudes.  Be balanced denounce the Israeli state for murdering civilians.  Go ahead it is the only way to peace.

Write it come on; "Israel is guilty of murder and that is wrong."  

Post it or stop telling other people they have to be balanced.

al-Qa'bong

Don't hold your breath.  According to Zionists' ghastly arithmetic, the death of 100 or more two-legged Arab beasts (or is it cockroaches in glass jars?) isn't worth the life of one Israeli.

remind remind's picture

WTH, "god bless", say it ain't so.....?

 

IMV, if God was blessing anyone, none of this shit would be happening. And if there is a "God" blessing people, after they have been tortured and terrorized to the max, then then said God is not worthy of being noted as blessing anyone, as "blessings" do not out weigh crimes against humanity.

al-Qa'bong

monetarily?

 

Where's Max Weber?

Peech

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Peech wrote:

 But murder is murder.

 

Quote:

Israeli troops shot dead two Palestinians in the occupied West Bank today amid a new descent into violence.

The two, who Palestinians claimed were detained while ploughing a field of olive trees near Nablus, were shot several times. Palestinian officials said both were 17.

 

Nice dodge but:

Do you agree that the murder suicide bombings of Israeli civilians is a legitimate exercise of  "resistance"

by your-so called Arab "resistance" groups (i.e. Hamas)??

Caissa

I presume GOD will be along momentarily.

skdadl

I presume that remind is referring to my heartfelt wish for the Uighurs, a group of entirely innocent people who have been wrongfully imprisoned and tortured at GTMO for over eight years. My text for the day:

 

Quote:
10 Blessed are they that have been persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

 

11 Blessed are ye when men shall reproach you, and persecute you, and say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

 

12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.

 

Matt 5:10-12

 

Now, true enough, I doubt that the Uighurs volunteered to be tortured for anybody's sake, but they have been persecuted, and all manner of evil has been said against them, continues to be said, even after they have been declared innocent. And far be it from me to put words in GOD's mouth -- I just sent up a li'l petition there, which I believe is standard practice and to which he has often seemed open enough before, especially when one is petitioning for the innocents. 

 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Peech wrote:

Do you agree that the murder suicide bombings of Israeli civilians is a legitimate exercise of  "resistance"

by your-so called Arab "resistance" groups (i.e. Hamas)??

I repeat for emphasis that Peech you are not balanced.  I dare you to prove me wrong.

You did not say that Israel commits murder.  You only say one is murder not the other.  

Come on live up to your platitudes.  Be balanced denounce the Israeli state for murdering civilians.  Go ahead it is the only way to peace.

Write it come on; "Israel is guilty of murder and that is wrong."  

Post it or stop telling other people they have to be balanced.

 

remind remind's picture

Resistence to oppressive colonial occuptation has historically taken  stronger forms  of violence, than the very occasional suicide bomber.

al-Qa'bong

Quote:

Do you agree that the murder suicide bombings of Israeli civilians is a legitimate exercise of  "resistance"

 

Guess where Palestinians got the idea.  And guess who celebrates, literally, terrorism.

Quote:

The rightwingers, including Binyamin Netanyahu, the former Prime Minister, are commemorating the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, the headquarters of British rule, that killed 92 people and helped to drive the British from Palestine.

They have erected a plaque outside the restored building, and are holding a two-day seminar with speeches and a tour of the hotel by one of the Jewish resistance fighters involved in the attack.

 

...She and a fellow agent posed as a couple. They danced tangos and waltzes, sipped whisky and wine while they cased out the hotel.

On the day her brother and his fellow fighters posed as Arabs delivering milk and brought seven milk churns, each containing 50kg of explosives, into the building.

 

It's interesting how the first terrorists in Palestine disguised themselves as Arabs, to avoid suspicion of violence.

 

Incidentally, there hasn't been a Hamas suicide attack in years.  On the other hand, the Israelis continue to kill Arabs today.  You should send your friends a strongly-worded letter condemning their murderous behaviour.

 

 

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Incidentally, there hasn't been a Hamas suicide attack in years.  On the other hand, the Israelis continue to kill Arabs today.  You should send your friends a strongly-worded letter condemning their murderous behaviour

 

A-Q you are asking him to be balanced in his words something he claims to consider a precondition to peace.  Since he refuses to be balanced it is obvious according to his own view that he is an apologist for violence since he doesn't denounce it.  

 

NDude

al-Qa'bong wrote:

Quote:

Do you agree that the murder suicide bombings of Israeli civilians is a legitimate exercise of  "resistance"

 

Guess where Palestinians got the idea.  And guess who celebrates, literally, terrorism.

Hamas?

http://www.road90.com/watch.php?id=GOm2ccSWmR

and here:

http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PI...

and

http://tinyurl.com/yacu6yv

and here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5O3gK5OS-kU

and the children are trained here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTGbP55HGi8&feature=PlayList&p=54EC67DD3A...

Is that balanced enough for you ???

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

So NDude  are both sides murderers or not?  I don't need to see pictures of violence to know it is being perpetrated daily in the occupied territories. 

I condemn suicide bombers and I condemn the state terrorism of Israel.  I call both of them murderers of civilians.  

Do you agree that they are both killing civilians and that is wrong and they are both despicable?

oldgoat

Ndude is peech.  Nice BTW, when you signed on in 2005 you also created a sleeper account.

 

Asshole.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

I thought that was likely the case but I can't say that only someone with your powers can.

Wink

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