H1N1

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RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture
H1N1

dreaded first post

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture
RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Sorry, can't edit.  Cool

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

I'm RevolutionPlease and I'd really like to thank all babblers for a lot of information I couldn't find so easily.  I might not share all the same concerns and approaches but I'm really happy this place is able to exist.  I really appreciate the unpaid work the moderators do.  Likewise, all the unpaid babblers.  This is a good community.  I feel safe here.  Make of it what you will but for me it's a light in the darkness.

Aristotleded24

[url=http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/10/05-7]H1N1 Just Isn't That Scary:[/url]

Quote:
And if the swine flu -- H1N1 -- had hit just 10 short years ago, we would not have gone about our lives as if nothing was amiss. It's only due to stepped up efforts to screen for viruses after the SARS and "avian flu" scares, and our relatively new ability to quickly (and inexpensively) determine a virus's genome, that we know something other than the so-called "seasonal flu" exists at all.

...

It's true that the H1N1 strain has displayed a few unusual characteristics. There have been fewer lethal cases among infants and more among non-elderly adults than one would expect based on our experience with other strains of influenza. But looking at its impact on the population as a whole, the H1N1 virus has in no way proved to be more dangerous than the seasonal flu.

Rarely is the actual threat posed by swine flu put into any statistical context.

So consider this: According to the European Center for Disease Control, there have been 4,092 confirmed deaths from swine flu around the world through Sept. 1. ("Confirmed" deaths is a dubious figure, but I'll use it for the sake of argument.)

If the same rate were to hold out for the rest of the year, that number would grow to 6,138 for 2009. That would mean you'd have approximately four times the chance of getting killed by a lightning strike (in an average year), and would be 200 times more likely to die in a car crash than to succumb to the swine flu. (Actually, this underestimates the likelihood of dying in a car crash, because anyone can catch a virus but not everyone gets around in a motor vehicle.)

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

My bad, we're stuck in introductions for now.

Unionist

Bit of a non-story, A24. I have detected no FEAR of H1N1 out there. Nor have I met too many people who are afraid of being vaccinated. That seems like the healthiest attitude to me. We're not afraid of dying every minute, but we do decide as a society to wear seatbelts, drink relatively clean water, avoid unsafe sex, install smoke detectors, and get vaccinated against new flu strains where the scientific community generally agrees that that's important.

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Unionist, can you distinguish the difference between "wear seatbelts, drink relatively clean water, avoid unsafe sex, install smoke detectors" and "get vaccinated against new flu strains where the scientific community generally agrees that that's important"

 

I can. It's trusting the government to inject me with experimental drugs.

Unionist

RP, you can be the last one left standing. I'm going down with the herd. Anyway, what do you mean by "the government"? A nice young person gave me my shot - she wasn't even wearing a Harper or Charest button. And are you aware that most people who drink relatively clean water get their water from "the government"? You trust "the government" for water? Look at Walkerton. Head for the hills!

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Unionist wrote:

RP, you can be the last one left standing. I'm going down with the herd. Anyway, what do you mean by "the government"? A nice young person gave me my shot - she wasn't even wearing a Harper or Charest button. And are you aware that most people who drink relatively clean water get their water from "the government"? You trust "the government" for water? Look at Walkerton. Head for the hills!

 

 

Perhaps you misunderstand me.  I don't trust them for my water never mind injecting man-made chemiicals into my bloodstream.

 

I don't trust them in anything U.

Unionist

I understood you, RP. I'm not talking about you. I'm talking about the vast majority of Canadians who don't worry about getting H1N1 and don't worry about getting vaccinated and don't worry every time they turn on a tap in a municipal water system. My point was that most people don't spend their lives in fear that either a bug or the government will kill them. I acknowledge that some do.

 

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

They're scared, don't know what to do, much like I.  Can the Government instill some faith or keep the trough flowing?

 

Rhetorical question...

Sineed

So flu seasons are tracked from Oct to May.  Here's an update on child deaths from the flu in the US, compared with other flu seasons, compliments of the CDC:

Pediatric deaths 2006-2007 flu season: 78

Pediatric deaths 2007-2008: 88; of the 63 children who died whose vaccination status is known, 92% did not receive the seasonal flu shot.

Pediatric deaths 2008-2009: 147 (H1N1 got started at the end of last flu season)

Pediatric deaths for 2009-2010 flu season so far, counted from Aug.30. - Nov. 14 th 09: 138.

Total # cases in the US from Aug. 30-Nov. 14 = 26,300; total # deaths = 1,049.

Canadian numbers: don't know how many children died - total # deaths week ending Nov. 26th = 30; cumulative total = 309.

Some are saying the flu epidemic is waning - the CDC reports a slight decline in the wk ending Nov. 14th.  Usually, it peaks in Feb.  Truth is, we have no idea.  Keep in mind that mortality rates and incidence rates are under-reported because they don't test everybody for the virus.

 

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

RevolutionPlease wrote:

Unionist, can you distinguish the difference between "wear seatbelts, drink relatively clean water, avoid unsafe sex, install smoke detectors" and "get vaccinated against new flu strains where the scientific community generally agrees that that's important"

 

I can. It's trusting the government to inject me with experimental drugs.

The H1N1 flu shot is not experimental.  It's just a flu shot.  Just like the ones we give grandma every fall.

The only people who say the flu shot is experimental want to sell you "immune-boosting" supplements.

RANGER

Timebandit wrote:

It is not a fast-tracked vaccine.  It is exactly like a seasonal flu vaccine, just like they've been giving old folks for years.  The only difference is that the virus used in the vaccine is H1N1.  They change the variant viruses every year to tailor the vaccine to the most prevalent viruses that year.  They tend to use 3 viruses, rather than just the one.

The adjuvant they're using is, IIRC, relatively new to North American vaccines, but has been used in Europe previously with very low incidence of reaction. 

Anti-vaccination sites and organizations have been pumping the fear of this vaccine and spreading misinformation such as the above all over the 'net. 

 

 

 

 

 Forgive me for having a different view:

 

 

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/07/29/swine-flu-vaccine.html

saganisking

Uh ranger did you read anything other than the headline in that story you just linked to

RANGER

Uh, sure did.

Wilf Day

Unionist wrote:
most people don't spend their lives in fear that either a bug or the government will kill them.

And rightly so.

However, more knowledge about viruses would be useful for all of us. It's a complex topic, but they mutate if you glare at them. The sub-strain of H1N1 from which they made the current vaccine was months ago. The vaccine is definitely worth taking, because it gives a degree of immmunity to most current sub-strains, but there are no guarantees.

My daughter, who studied microbiology at university and viruses in particular, is seriously afraid of what will happen when the AIDS virus mutates into an airborn form, and somewhat amazed it hasn't happened already.

The medical community has a wise practice based on long experience of not scaring patients (that's all of us laypeople) unnecessarily about things we cannot change. It's a fact that many people get better when you tell them they will get better. So there is, quite properly, a lot of scary information not much talked about. But for those who have paranoid tendencies, this is very worrying. Even for those who merely have intellectual curiosity, there are a lot of worrying things happening with viruses.

Trevormkidd

RANGER wrote:

Timebandit wrote:

It is not a fast-tracked vaccine.  It is exactly like a seasonal flu vaccine, just like they've been giving old folks for years.  The only difference is that the virus used in the vaccine is H1N1.  They change the variant viruses every year to tailor the vaccine to the most prevalent viruses that year.  They tend to use 3 viruses, rather than just the one.

The adjuvant they're using is, IIRC, relatively new to North American vaccines, but has been used in Europe previously with very low incidence of reaction. 

Anti-vaccination sites and organizations have been pumping the fear of this vaccine and spreading misinformation such as the above all over the 'net. 

 Forgive me for having a different view:

 http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2009/07/29/swine-flu-vaccine.html

The article is pretty confusing. 

The relevant parts, at least to me, are:

 

"Strain change is the regulatory tool the FDA uses to allow manufacturers to make the frequent adjustments needed for seasonal flu vaccine.

Flu shots have to be tweaked almost annually to keep up with the rapidly mutating influenza viruses. The strain change system lets manufacturers pull out virus strains no longer needed and slot in vaccine elements against newer viruses more likely to cause disease.

In the U.S. when seasonal flu vaccine is updated in this manner, no new studies are required; a strain change is considered a supplement to the original vaccine licence. (Canada uses a similar approach for seasonal flu vaccine, though it requires a small study each time.)

In this case, though, FDA officials have said they want manufacturers to do trials on the pandemic vaccine to validate that it's safe and ensure it is effective at the dose size that will be used. The data from those studies aren't expected to be available when swine flu vaccination programs start, however."

 

So if it had been a little earlier it would be in the seasonal flu shot. It still underwent the same testing that the seasonal flu shot underwent. I can't remember the number of Canadians in the clinical trials, but I read somewhere that Glaxo said that 9000 people underwent trials of their H1N1 vaccine throughout the countries where it is being distributed.

 

However, it is a fast-tracked vaccine:

 

"Governments and their vaccine regulators realized that if pandemic vaccines were treated like a brand new vaccine - for instance, recently introduced products to protect against HPV or rotaviruses - clinical trials involving tens of thousands of people would be needed."

 

But we essentially fast-track the changes in the seasonal flu vaccine each year because it is not treated as a new vaccine.

 

 

Refuge Refuge's picture

Well, I just got H1N1.  I didn't get the flu shot purposely because I think building my immunity naturally is much better than getting a shot for many of the reasons talked about above and if I could do it again I would get H1N1 again instead of the shot.  It was no worse than any other flu that I had and I think that all the hype about it is seriously over rated.

remind remind's picture

Take you do not have a stock portfolio you are trying to bump up.......

jas

Refuge, are you still sick with H1N1? You said you "just got" it, which suggests that you just came down with it. Or did you mean you just went through it? Was it confirmed H1n1? Just curious.

Refuge Refuge's picture

The doctor's won't confirm it but it was all the symptoms of H1N1 and the doctor said that the H1N1 is peaking before the other flu this year.  That and I was exposed to a group of people, one confirmed to have H1N1 and the rest went down with it as well.  So I am 90% sure it was H1N1.

I had it full out two weeks ago, was off sick for a full week (9 days) (was contagious for most of that anyway) and then returned last week but was pretty much only able to go to work and then come home and sleep.  Still feeling the effects of the tiredness and have the cough, which the doctor said would persist for a few weeks.

Lol Remind - no stocks for me!

Caissa

I just got the shot this morning at work. Ms.C. got it yesterday and has a great deal of soreness around the injection site.

remind remind's picture

Seems like every week someone is giving testimony, that they too got the shot.... :D

 

My testimony is:

I didn't, and never got the flu, in either wave...

My partner didn't, and has not gotten it

Daughter didn't and  has not gotten it, yet she works daily in public contact.

Granddaughter didn't, and has not gotten it

 

of course will add the rider "yet" for getting the "flu", but we never get the "seasonal" flu, nor shots either.

Daughter has never had the flu, ever in her life, nor has the granddaughter....yet....

 

Good handing washing, keeping hands away from your face, and lack of public touching of things, goes a long way

 

Caissa

Remind wrote: Seems like every week someone is giving testimony, that they too got the shot.... :D

 

Solidarity Forever.

remind remind's picture

 doesn't it have more to do with seeing stock portfolios expanding, or retracting.... ;) :D

 

well I suppose that is solidarity too.....

skdadl

Oh, testimonials are wanted?

 

I got the H1N1 shot a week ago yesterday. I was able to make an appointment at a clinic in my neighbourhood; I was early so I had a very brief wait, although they asked me then to sit for twenty minutes (I skipped out after ten because I felt fine). No reaction until the middle of the night, when localized pain woke me up. Two days of diminishing localized pain. Since then, very little, although there's a muscle in there somewhere that complains when I make certain moves, like lifting arms over head.

 

Still have to get the seasonal shot. I'm no spring chicken and I have a chronic throat problem (as well as six dependants), so pneumonia would definitely be a threat to us all. I know of a couple of people in similar circs who've ended up in hospital with H1N1; they're not out of the woods yet, and I think of them and their families every day. No one knows where this is going yet; whatever your choice, may you stay well.

Sineed

I got the shot a wk ago - same experience as skdadl.  Very sore arm - do you think it's worse than usual?  I get a flu shot every year and I don't remember having such a sore arm, but I wonder if it's psychosomatic because of all the fuss over this one.

I also should get it - I look after vulnerable people in my job, and I have asthma such that when I get the flu I'm sick for more than a month.  

From the chief medical officer Dr. Butler-Jones: "Forty percent of people becoming seriously ill and 1/3  of those who die had no underlying pre-existing illness."

skdadl

I don't usually have any reaction to the seasonal shot at all, Sineed, but I don't think this one was psychosomatic. For one thing, I was quite proud of self for having no reaction at all for hours, and when it finally happened, I was asleep -- then suddenly I awoke to a burning pain (it's true I was sleeping on that arm) that stayed for two days, but diminishing all the time. It was never debilitating, but a bit irritating. Now I mostly don't think about it, except every once in a while a certain movement will remind me -- again, it's not that bad, but it's there. A friend says this is the adjuvant causing the irritation -- is there no adjuvant in the seasonal shot?

 

I figure I already have enough breathing and swallowing problems that flu could be suddenly dangerous. For those younger people who were healthy and then suddenly so sick, I am so sorry. I haven't heard a good explanation for that yet.

 

 

 

 

Sineed

That's right - there's no adjuvant in the regular seasonal flu shot.  The adjuvant consists of squalene, and if you google you'll get hits at all the kook sites making a big fuss, but squalene is naturally present in our bodies; it's an intermediate in the production of cholesterol.

Tommy_Paine

 

I don't think the extra sore arm is psychosomatic. It's a common complaint.  Remember back to the odd flu shot and shots for tetanus, I remember my arm being sore, but not like it was with the H1N1.   But it goes away, and there's nothing to report except I don't have to BUGS!!! BUGS BUGS BUGS GET THEM OFF OF ME GETTHEMOFFOFMEGETTHEMOFFOFME  worry about losing a week's wages due to illness.

remind remind's picture

Quote:
The adjuvant consists of squalene, and if you google you'll get hits at all the kook sites making a big fuss, but squalene is naturally present in our bodies; it's an intermediate in the production of cholesterol.

Then people will be wondering why kids have such high cholestero levelsl, eh...and what a bonus for the drug companies too.. they get  to sell more high cholesterol medication after selling the medication that caused the hgih levels.... ;)

Tommy_Paine

 

I do think there's something to the idea of making us sick so they can sell us the cure.  But I don't think it's a deliberate, planned out strategy.   But I do think pharmacuetical companies who sell us all the stuff for diabetes might influence the government to, for example, not do anything about the waiting list for gastric bypass surgery, or maybe they do what they can to keep the government from regulating all the processed foods and such that go down our kid's gullets. 

Not that anyone ever said, "Hey, you make high sugar content foods, and we'll make a bundle off of selling syringes, and Mr. government person, you guys keep your noses out of it." 

I think it all happens by accident.  But once the profitable circumstance is in place......

jas

AS you may have guessed, I don't get flu shots. The day after the Mexican outbreak was announced last spring, I came down (psychosomatically?) with what turned out to be only a 24-hour flu (the existence alone of which has me completely baffled - but that's a separate topic) so I thought, oh, maybe this will be my inoculation. So far, so good, but since then I have noticed a chronic low-grade lung congestion, with occasional pain in my lungs. Dry cough. I'm getting it checked out, but it did make me wonder if I had caught some form of low-grade H1N1 because I've never had respiratory problems from flu before. But I was visiting a hospital several times in June, and they had just months earlier gone through at least two quarantines, one of them being Norwalk virus, so I could have picked up something in the hospital, too. It also could be environmental (new apartment). It's unpleasant though, and sometimes makes me feel run down like the 'flu does.

I think we are definitely seeing some newer and hybrid kinds of infections.

remind remind's picture

Tommy_Paine wrote:
I think it all happens by accident.  But once the profitable circumstance is in place......

 

 am not that naive....and I know better than  believing anything in the corporate business world is coincidence/accident...

 

Sineed

The Norwalk virus (renamed norovirus for some reason) tends to last 4 days.  Many folks think these "24-hour" flus are food poisoning.

Factoid of the day: if you visit a hospital where there's norovirus, you want to wash your hands really really well with soap and water because the alcohol hand sanitizer doesn't work on norovirus.

Brian White

A pharmacist told me that they rushed out the first H1N1 shots as quick as possible and did not adjust the ph. (and this is part of the reason it hurt more). The other reason is that it is a more severe flu (for some people) than normal seasonal flu so perhaps the vaccine gives more reaction. 

In my case, I got the seasonal and the H1N1 shot at the same time and went back to the doctor 2 weeks later because the h1n1 was still hurting.

He said, "actually that is the arm where I gave you the seasonal shot". Getting the seasonal shot and  a little muscle stiffness just happened to set off my tendonitis. 

I got no bump with either.

But yeah, I never had a flu shot before, my gf and her son both said the H1N1 shots were sorer than usual and they both had sore red inflamed spots.

They have gone to some european vaccine set up this year, havn't they?  That is another possibility. Maybe it just hurts a bit more than the old system?

I wondor if the shots now are still causing the same amount of discomfort as the first ones?

Brian

Tommy_Paine wrote:

 

I don't think the extra sore arm is psychosomatic. It's a common complaint.  Remember back to the odd flu shot and shots for tetanus, I remember my arm being sore, but not like it was with the H1N1.   But it goes away, and there's nothing to report except I don't have to BUGS!!! BUGS BUGS BUGS GET THEM OFF OF ME GETTHEMOFFOFMEGETTHEMOFFOFME  worry about losing a week's wages due to illness.

NDPP

European Parliament to Investigate WHO and 'Pandemic' Scandal

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16667

"The Council of Europe member states will launch an inquiry in January 2010 on the influence of the pharmaceutical companies on the global swine flu campaign..."

remind remind's picture

Thanks for the link NoDiff....

 

Quote:
The Health Committee of the EU Parliament has unanimously passed a resolution calling for the inquiry. The step is a long-overdue move to public transparency of a “Golden Triangle” of drug corruption between WHO, the pharma industry and academic scientists that has permanently damaged the lives of millions and even caused death.

The parliament motion was introduced by Dr. Wolfgang Wodarg, former SPD Member of the German Bundestag and now Chairman of the European Parliament Health Committee. Wodarg is a medical doctor and epidemiologist, a specialist in lung disease and environmental medicine, who considers the current “pandemic” Swine Flu campaign of the WHO to be “one of the greatest medicine scandals of the Century.”

The text of the resolution just passed by a sufficient number in the Council of Europe Parliament says among other things, “In order to promote their patented drugs and vaccines against flu, pharmaceutical companies influenced scientists and official agencies, responsible for public health standards to alarm governments worldwide and make them squander tight health resources for inefficient vaccine strategies and needlessly expose millions of healthy people to the risk of an unknown amount of side-effects of insufficiently tested vaccines. The "bird-flu"-campaign (2005/06) combined with the "swine-flu"-campaign seem to have caused a great deal of damage not only to some vaccinated patients and to public health-budgets, but to the credibility and accountability of important international health-agencies.”

The Parliamentary inquiry will look into the issue of „falsified pandemic“ that was declared by WHO in June 2009 on the advice of its group of academic experts, SAGE, many of whose members have been documented to have intense financial ties to the same pharmaceutical giants such as GlaxoSmithKline, Roche, Novartis, who benefit from the production of drugs and untested H1N1 vaccines. They will investigate the influence of the pharma industry in creation of a worldwide campaign against the so-called H5N1 “Avian Flu”  and H1N1 Swine Flu. The inquiry will be given “urgent” priority in the general assembly of the parliament.

In his official statement to the Committee, Wodarg criticized the influence of the pharma industry on scientists and officials of WHO, stating that it has led to the situation where “unnecessarily millions of healthy people are exposed to the risk of poorly tested vaccines,” and that, for a flu strain that is “vastly less harmful” than all previous flu epidemics.

 

*bolding mine

Unionist

NoDifferencePartyPooper wrote:

European Parliament to Investigate WHO and 'Pandemic' Scandal

NDPP, could you or someone help me out here?

The European Parliament (or EU Parliament), as far as I know, has nothing to do with the Council of Europe. The author also refers to the "Council of Europe Parliament", which is quite different and confusing.

So, what organization is the author actually talking about?

My other reason for asking is that I can find no reference to this inquiry on the internet, except originating from this article or Wodarg himself. Maybe it's just too soon, because it was only passed yesterday? But, which body passed it?

 

 

remind remind's picture

Does it really matter to the subject content at hand, which is an alleged falsified pandemic?

 

As it seems not to me.....and that any further continuance along this side line is merely a "look over here, not there".

 

Quote:
Unlike the European Parliament (an institution of the European Union), which was created after the model of the PACE and also meets in Strasbourg for its plenary sessions (prior to 1999, in the PACE hemicycle), its powers extend only to the ability to investigate, recommend and advise. Even so, its recommendations on issues such as human rights have significant weight in the European political context. The European Parliament and other European Union institutions often refer to the work of PACE, especially in the field of human rights, legal co-operation and cultural co-operation.

Important statutory functions of the PACE are the election of the Secretary General of the Council of Europe, the judges of the European Court of Human Rights and the members of the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture.

In general it meets 4 times per year at Strasbourg at the Palace of Europe for a week. The 10 permanent commissions of the Assembly meet all year long to prepare reports and projects for resolutions in their respective fields of expertise.

The Assembly sets its own agenda. It discusses European and international events and examines current subjects which interest the populations of the countries of Europe. The main themes covered are human rights, democracy, protection of minorities and the Rule of law.

 

The Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe (PACE), which held its first session in Strasbourg on 10 August 1949

*bolding mine

Sineed

Global Research is a kook site, FYI.

Unionist

remind wrote:

Does it really matter to the subject content at hand, which is an alleged falsified pandemic?

Yes, remind, I'd like to know who decided and when to launch an inquiry into an alleged falsified pandemic. The article quoted plays loose and free with the names of institutions. And I'm a little surprised that the MSM (nor anyone else...) hasn't picked up a story that dozens of European states are supposedly questioning the WHO's pandemic announcement!

Until confirmation, I consider this story as bordering on the looney-tunes. However, I stand to be corrected and will be glad for enlightenment. So far, ain't seen any.

 

 

ennir

As much as I would like to think this is true I too question this site.  I found an article posted on there on June 3, 2009 stating that Sarkozy had a secret plan to enforce mandatory vaccinations, the mandatory vaccination thing seems to be common to those sites trying to whip people into a panic, buy gold or silver and survival rations for when the police state arrives. 

Fidel

Sineed wrote:
Global Research is a kook site, FYI.

It's a Canadian site with contributions from leftwing writers from around the world. People like John Pilger, Tariq Ali, Fidel Castro, Noam Chomsky, Michael Hudson, Peter Dale Scott etc are not kooks.

Wingnuts writing for rightwing Vancouver make-believe think tank are kooks. David Frum is a kook. The discredited Conrad Black and his newz lacky empire were Canada's kooks. And there are a lot more of those whackos on the right kooking things up in this country still. Canada's senators in Ottawa are another group of old kooks who nobody voted for and need cleaning out of Ottawa for all time. The lunatic rightwing fringe is everywhere in Canada and US, but they have nothing to do with globalresearch[url=.ca[/url]">http://www.globalresearch.ca].ca[/url]

NDPP

skepticism is always a good thing - never take anything on trust, but especially from the same mainstream corporate media that brought you Saddam's WMDs etc. etc.

Unionist

ennir wrote:

 I found an article posted on there on June 3, 2009 stating that Sarkozy had a secret plan to enforce mandatory vaccinations, the mandatory vaccination thing seems to be common to those sites trying to whip people into a panic, buy gold or silver and survival rations for when the police state arrives. 

Hey ennir - guess what - the [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13835]Sarkozy secret vaccination plan article[/url] was written by the same guy (F. William Engdahl) who wrote this one about the so-called "European Parliament" investigating the WHO's pandemic announcement!

In fact, to this point, Engdahl is the only source I've seen on the internet for this story.

Still waiting for a credible source (definition of "credible" - anyone else).

 

Fidel

Unionist wrote:

ennir wrote:
 I found an article posted on there on June 3, 2009 stating that Sarkozy had a secret plan to enforce mandatory vaccinations, the mandatory vaccination thing seems to be common to those sites trying to whip people into a panic, buy gold or silver and survival rations for when the police state arrives. 

Hey ennir - guess what - the [url=http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=13835]Sarkozy secret vaccination plan article[/url] was written by the same guy (F. William Engdahl) who wrote this one about the so-called "European Parliament" investigating the WHO's pandemic announcement!

In fact, to this point, Engdahl is the only source I've seen on the internet for this story.

Still waiting for a credible source (definition of "credible" - anyone else).

Oh look! Engdahl wrote some stuff about crazy Gerald Ford and mass immunization in America since the 70's, the most vaccinated country in the world where millions don't have the right to see a doctor on a regular basis and never mind medical emergencies. Is it possible that big pharma and big insurance have corrupted US politicians in order to have their way with prescription drugs and phony health insurance schemes?  Who do we believe!?: corporate stooges or independent newsies?

ennir

Unionist, thanks for catching that one.

I question this site not for those credible voices on it, and there are as Fidel pointed out, but for the other voices which seem less so, this seems an effective strategy for disinformation.

 

Fidel

Of course, it would be no cause for concern for some of us that the WHO is accountable to no elected Parliament. Afterall, we have accountability issues with our own non-elected quasi-governmental bureaucrats for life in Ottawa. Who's keeping track? It's all good.

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