Does the Sask. NDP even CARE anymore?

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Leftfield

Aristotleded24 wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:
Leftfield wrote:
I tend to think that the NDP's problems go deeper than historic shifts. Thinking back 30 years ago, among my peers (say my scout troop I was involved in as a teen) with one exception there wasn't a conservative in the bunch. Few of them would line up to the modern understanding of a New Democrat today. There was and is something socially wrong in the NDP. I feel like they ran eccentric single men in family neighbourhoods, old social gospel preachers in new young areas, socialists in heavily Catholic areas, and union bosses who couldn't lead their members. A number of those people were real bastards too. Ticking boxes that made one a good New Democrat was often more important than picking people who were good members of the community. Quite a few of the current crop of MLAs are career politicians or children of activists. Not relatable to average people.

Is "eccentric single men" meant to be a euphemism for openly gay men there?

I took Leftfield's post to mean that the Saskatchewan NDP doesn't really have the pulse on the public mood or the demographic makeup of the province, and as a result tends to select candidates that are not particularly well suited to the individual ridings.

Yep.  As far as I know, the guy I was thinking of is straight.  

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Appreciate the clarification.  You can see someone elsewhere might take that phrase as a euphemism.

Leftfield

Ken Burch wrote:

Appreciate the clarification.  You can see someone elsewhere might take that phrase as a euphemism.

Yep, poorly choosen wording on my part.  I was trying to think of a different way to say "peculiar personality"  for the person I was thinking of.  

Misfit Misfit's picture

Idiosyncratic? Kook? Odd? Boring and awkward? A misfit like me?

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Will Sask NDP support oil industry or Indigenous land rights?

quote:

But, a day after Meili’s June social media post in support of the camp, the Saskatchewan NDP announced their new Chief of Staff – the first major hire since Meili’s campaign victory in the March party leadership race. Meili’s choice for what is arguably the most powerful unelected position in the party was Olin Valby, a Texas-based oil industry manager working for TransCanada Corp, and a former staffer in the NDP Calvert administration.

quote:

“Valby has been trusted by the oil industry to shepherd over 75 pipeline and facility projects through stakeholder engagement and scoping,” says Emily Eaton, a researcher on Saskatchewan’s oil economy. She’s hesitant to embrace the congratulatory tide. Eaton predicts that Valby will leverage this experience as chief of staff in one of two ways: “Either he will adopt the Alberta NDP’s form of ‘new climate denialism’, where decision-makers employ pro-climate science rhetoric while continuing to deny what climate science actually means for policy. Or he will use his insider knowledge of the oil industry to undermine its power and influence in this province.”

Eaton warns that if he follows the first path, “the NDP will continue its historic support of the oil industry while attempting to manage the people and movements who oppose the unfettered growth of the industry.” She says, “as we have seen in Alberta, this would mean supporting oil development on Indigenous lands with little respect for the rights of Indigenous peoples to free, prior, and informed consent.”

She continues, “If he follows the second path, we can finally start moving towards the sustainable economies we all need. Our future generations need him to do the latter,” adding that “but doing so would betray the industry that has employed him for the last decade.”

quote:

There is a calculus for even well-intentioned settler politicians who aspire to power in Saskatchewan and beyond: don’t step up to bat for decolonization in practice, because the voters won’t support it. There is an infrastructure, both inside and outside of political parties, that sweeps “progressive” politicians to the centre, away from accountability to Indigenous peoples and their lands – and away from ecological sanity and social justice. Such politicians would not attain political power in this system otherwise. Are we seeing this in real time with the current Saskatchewan NDP?

Talk of “reconciliation” is too often divorced from the practical recognition of Indigenous people’s rights to the land. This is the ugly underbelly of the “reconciliation” industry. To his credit, Meili has demonstrated public support for the Justice For Our Stolen Children camp since June 13th – but the next day he appointed an oil manager from TransCanada Corp as his chief of staff. The question is: how does one so easily separate stolen children from stolen land, with a chief of staff whose career has been built on colonial resource extraction?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Leftfield wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Appreciate the clarification.  You can see someone elsewhere might take that phrase as a euphemism.

Yep, poorly choosen wording on my part.  I was trying to think of a different way to say "peculiar personality"  for the person I was thinking of.  

I understand.  And these days, it seems to be very difficult to find a term for the sort of guy you were trying to describe that won't be offensive to someone or carry some sort of unintended meaning. 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
And these days, it seems to be very difficult to find a term for the sort of guy you were trying to describe that won't be offensive to someone or carry some sort of unintended meaning.

Are people sort of getting a bit too sensitive?  Or else what do you mean here?

progressive17 progressive17's picture

NDPs are like Leafs fans. "We did something in the 1960s!"

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:
And these days, it seems to be very difficult to find a term for the sort of guy you were trying to describe that won't be offensive to someone or carry some sort of unintended meaning.

Are people sort of getting a bit too sensitive?  Or else what do you mean here?

No, not TOO sensitive.  More aware, in some ways, more attentive. 

And a lot of people feel they no longer have to put up with slights and acts of disrespect they used to be pressured to be "good sports" about, or didn't have the power in society to ask people not to do to them anymore.

You just want me to say they're "too sensitive" so you can work in your smug, dismissive "you're all being silly" thing again.  Sorry, not gonna play.  

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
You just want me to say they're "too sensitive" so you can work in your smug, dismissive "you're all being silly" thing again.  Sorry, not gonna play.

I would totally settle for you finding that term for that guy (that won't offend anyone).

Aristotleded24

Does the Saskatchewan NDP care? In Regina Northeast, yes they do:

Quote:
Yens Pedersen with the Saskatchewan New Democratic Party has secured a spot in the legislature following the Regina Northeast byelection with nearly 54 per cent of the vote.

"We have sent a message to the people of Saskatchewan that we can do better," Pedersen said at the NDP headquarters after his win.

"Tonight is just the start of a battle to win our province back."

His main competitor was Gary Grewal of the Saskatchewan Party, who got 39 per cent of the vote.

It's really a mixed bag. This riding has historically been NDP for a good length of time, with a few blips. And Pederson seems like a good guy, but doesn't seem to represent much in the way of change or new leadership, especially since his primary opponent was a member of a visible minority. I do hope the Saskatchewan NDP can attract a diverse field of quality candidates. There is also the issue of them still hitting a wall in the smaller centres outside Regina and Saskatoon. They absolutely need those communities on board, or the Saskies will govern forever. For example, Swift Current is a key constituency. Since 1944, the CCF/NDP has defeated a right-wing government 3 times, electing an MLA from Swift Current each time.

Having said that, winning a seat in a by-election that you didn't previously have is always better than not doing so, and the best comeback to any naysayers and critics. Congratulations are in order to Pederson and the Saskatchewan NDP. May this be the spring in your step that you need.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Regina is also the epicentre of a multi billion dollar fiasco and questionable land flipping by the Sask Party.

I would have been surprised if they lost.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Yens is a smart guy and will be an asset to the party. Glad to see he has a seat.

Aristotleded24

This little stunt was anything but smart:

Quote:
The Saskatchewan NDP accused the provincial government of trying to quietly privatize long-term care facilities in Regina and Grenfell, even though the party’s leader admits there is little evidence to support such a claim.

“We don’t see any evidence to the contrary, I suppose, is what we’re concerned about,” Ryan Meili told reporters at a Thursday morning news conference in Saskatoon with Opposition Seniors Critic Danielle Chartier.

...

Meili subsequently acknowledged that “due diligence on available options is appropriate,” but suggested issuing the requests signalled that the government had already settled on a private model for long-term care in both communities.

Health Minister Jim Reiter was unavailable for an interview Thursday.

In a statement, Reiter said the request for expressions of interest is an “information-gathering exercise,” and not a tender. It was issued to see “whether any existing service providers might be interested in exploring options for meeting long-term care needs,” he said.

“Long-term care services are publicly funded in Saskatchewan and that will not change,” Reiter’s statement read, adding that the request for expressions of interest is one of multiple options being considered.

The Saskatchewan Party government has proven willing to contemplate privatizing public assets — notably SaskTel, an idea it quickly abandoned — but the NDP’s long-standing fears of a major sell-off have never been realized.

Newsflash to the Saskatchewan NDP: You guys have been accusing the Saskatchewan Party of having a nefarious plan to privatize everything since the mid-2000s, and your support has declined in every election since then. The NDP is always accusing its opponents of wanting to privatize everything that isn't nailed down. That accusation typically doesn't result in any attention for the NDP when it does, other than for the public to simply roll their eyes at them. If you're going to accuse your opponents of wanting to privatize something, make sure you have the evidence to back up your claims. Otherwise, keep quite and move on to something else.

Dr. Meili, I think you were the right choice to lead the Saskatchewan NDP. There was a reason that in a crowded field, you emerged basically out of nowhere and ended up on the final ballot against someone propped up by the Establishment on your first run. There's a reason you were elected NDP leader over the desires of Caucus. Your party wanted innovation, bold ideas, new thinking. But you really need to step up your game. Tap into that energy, innovation, enthusiasm, and desire for new thinking. Resist the tired, worn out thinking of your deadwood Caucus who are so in the bubble and out of touch with reality that they ended up handing historic majorities to a right-wing party. Stop hurting the party with crap like this and actually lead like you were elected to do.

Misfit Misfit's picture

Ari,

i agree that Ryan Miele gaffed on this one.

i actually believe that Ryan Miele is a dud, this is the first of many to come.

but your attack on NDP privatization fears is seriously misguided and inappropriate for our history in Saskatchewan. The Sask Party is running our crowns into the ground and chipping away at them little by little so that they slowly implode. And I guess you support that.

Misfit Misfit's picture

They shut down many of our provincial liquor stores and replaced them with private liquor stores and mandated that all new liquor stores will be private only. Do you call that privatization? I guess not, and it is perfectly ok.

Sask Power wind mills are private only. Sask Power had the money and resources to set up crown wind energy but according to Brad Wall,  Sask Power was banned from expanding. Those profits are for private interests only and not for the good of the province.

Sask Tel can no longer expand or develop by using its own revenues. The revenues go directly to the government to use. Sask Tel can only venture finance future projects. 

Brad Wall shut down our Saskatchewan Transportation Company rural bus service leaving poor people to hitch hike in -30  degree weather and risk their lives walking on the highways. This is a disastrous blow to rural Saskatchewan and the far north.

Brad Wall shut down SCN television network which promoted made in Saskatchewan documentaries and films. They sold the network to a company in Ontario with no background in telecommunications. Brad Sall sold all the assets for ten cents on the dollar.

According to you though, the real  problem is that the NDP are just too whiny about our crowns corporations.

 

6079_Smith_W

Meili is entirely right to be asking those questions because the sask party has been privatizing in increments, shutting down and selling public assets without consultation, floating endless trial balloons and even passing legislation that they can sell up to half a crown corporation without it being privatization at all.

Since canned because some people noticed and spoke up about it.

Maybe the right question isn't how much the sask NDP should water themselves down to become electable (speaking of not caring) but why this is the only province, for now, that still has a public telephone system, threatened as it is.

Aristotleded24

Misfit wrote:
They shut down many of our provincial liquor stores and replaced them with private liquor stores and mandated that all new liquor stores will be private only. Do you call that privatization? I guess not, and it is perfectly ok.

Sask Power wind mills are private only. Sask Power had the money and resources to set up crown wind energy but according to Brad Wall,  Sask Power was banned from expanding. Those profits are for private interests only and not for the good of the province.

Sask Tel can no longer expand or develop by using its own revenues. The revenues go directly to the government to use. Sask Tel can only venture finance future projects. 

Brad Wall shut down our Saskatchewan Transportation Company rural bus service leaving poor people to hitch hike in -30  degree weather and risk their lives walking on the highways. This is a disastrous blow to rural Saskatchewan and the far north.

Brad Wall shut down SCN television network which promoted made in Saskatchewan documentaries and films. They sold the network to a company in Ontario with no background in telecommunications. Brad Sall sold all the assets for ten cents on the dollar.

According to you though, the real  problem is that the NDP are just too whiny about our crowns corporations.

If all of this has happened, of course the NDP is right to go after this and call them out. Have they actually done so? That's an entirely different thing than going after the government for something that they "might" do.

Misfit wrote:
your attack on NDP privatization fears is seriously misguided and inappropriate for our history in Saskatchewan. The Sask Party is running our crowns into the ground and chipping away at them little by little so that they slowly implode. And I guess you support that.

If that was true, then I would have said, "I support the privatization of the Crowns." Can you find anything in my post to this thread or in my posting history on babble that would support that position?

I've been a part of this community since the NDP was last in power in Saskatchewan. The NDP started to talk about privatizations then, however it has had no appreciable impact on support for the Saskatchewan Party. The fact that we don't like the Saskatchewan Party doesn't matter. There's always people who don't like any particular party. What I'm concerned about is what the NDP does to call out Saskatchewan Party failures, propose alternatives, and actually win. It's great that the by-elections in the last 2 years have gone the NDP's way. That will only bring them back to 2007 support levels, when they first lost.

On a tangent, you've expressed reservations about Meili before. I'd be curious to know more about that, especially since his victory has the optics of the grassroots defeating the establishment. What is it about Meili that makes him an ineffective leader? What, if anything, do you think he can do to turn that around? Is there someone else you feel who can be more effective? Nicole Saurer seemed to be quite effective as an interim leader, but I guess she wasn't interested.

6079_Smith_W

Not to imply that that the Sask NDP are actually doing everything they should be, but by your reckoning if they shut the fuck up and turn into the Sask Party and get elected it's all good?

And who said Meili is an ineffective leader?

 

Misfit Misfit's picture

Smith, I am not sure about Miele as an effective leader. I hope he is but I have my doubts.

the Sask Party has set up private MRI clinics in Regina and is planning more for Saskatoon. With this background it makes me wonder if the building in Grenfell had to be put up for tender or if the government could have built the facility automatically. If the government could have built the facility automatically then the NDP has reason to ask why this was not done. 

The Sask PRty has already embarked on a process of health care privatization. And we need to be concerned about further privatization efforts.

Miele is correct in expressing these concerns, but he did not handle himself well in the press. He is novice in the political spectrum and he has to learn how to. communicate with the media better.

 

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
it makes me wonder if the building in Grenfell had to be put up for tender or if the government could have built the facility automatically. If the government could have built the facility automatically then the NDP has reason to ask why this was not done.

These seem like two different things.  What does the public sector bidding process have to do with building "automatically"?

Do you mean "could they have just chosen a contractor they liked and proceeded?"

Aristotleded24

Now *This* Is More Like It:

Quote:

Meili says that even with the increase, Saskatchewan's minimum wage is still not enough for workers to live on.

"People working in low wage jobs are having to access food banks, they're having to access various social programs, they're still living in poverty despite having a full-time job," Meili said.

So it's clear to me that Meili wants to help the working poor in Saskatchewan, while the current government does not. I know who to vote for on that basis.

Aristotleded24

Misfit wrote:
Miele is correct in expressing these concerns, but he did not handle himself well in the press. He is novice in the political spectrum and he has to learn how to. communicate with the media better.

Isn't "effective political communicator" a euphemism for "lying sack of dirt?"

Misfit Misfit's picture

No it does not mean that at all. Not even close.

Michael Ignatieff was a brilliant man and a Harvard professor. He was very articulate but despite all this, the mainstream media could dance circles around him and portray him the very opposite of what he wanted to convey.

Ryan Miele is very intelligent and articulate as well. Unfortunately he is also not media savvy just like Ignatieff.

if Miele doesn't get media coaching, the media is going to destroy Ryan and the NDP in the next election about one year from now.

Aristotleded24

Or maybe the Saskatchewan NDP needs to wake up tot the fact that the media is the enemy, is going to attempt to destryo the party no matter what, and find their own independent ways of communicating with the people?

Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders were also destroyed by the mainstreem media. Instead of whining about it, they found their own ways to communicate and their message resonnated. We need to get with the times.

6079_Smith_W

Maybe when it comes to John Gormley that is true (and he does have a lot of people who listen to him); not so with CBC or the two major dailies. I don't agree with every approach they take to political coverage, but I certainly wouldn't call them the enemy.

Aristotleded24

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Maybe when it comes to John Gormley that is true (and he does have a lot of people who listen to him); not so with CBC or the two major dailies. I don't agree with every approach they take to political coverage, but I certainly wouldn't call them the enemy.

I'm going to have to disagree on that one. Do CBC or the major dailies do a good job explaining the perspective of someone who sees another person holding a cardboard sign at a busy intersection and thinks, "that might be a viable way for me to make some money?"

Even so, there is also CTV and CanWest Global to have to contend with. Not to mention that in smaller communities in Saskatchewan, political coverage tends to resemble coffee time chit-chats witht the locally elected (and usually) right-wing MLA, and the hard questions about these decisions these guys make are never asked. Regardless of the impact of the decisions these MLAs have on their communities, they generally love their MLA's because "he's such a nice guy." It's effective because when you put aside politics, that is true about many of these people on an individual basis.

Aristotleded24

6079_Smith_W wrote:
Not to imply that that the Sask NDP are actually doing everything they should be, but by your reckoning if they shut the fuck up and turn into the Sask Party and get elected it's all good?

That is not what I said at all. My point is that if you're going to say something, say something meaningful.

One of the basic lessons of communication that people often forget (especially in politics) is that people have their own perception filters, and that when you say something to them, what they hear isn't always what you intended to say. People already expect the NDP to criticize privatization. They also expect politicians on the right to scream about burdensome taxation. In the absence of clear evidence to back up either claim (clear evidence which Misfit provided upthread) people are just going to roll their eyes and get back to whatever it was they were doing before.

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