La Loche School Shooting

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La Loche School Shooting

School Shooting in La Loche, 5 Dead

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/la-loche-community-school-loc...

"Five people have died in a shooting in the northern Saskatchewan community of La Loche..."

5 Killed, 2 Critically Injured in Canada School Shooting, Suspect Arrested

https://www.rt.com/news/329864-school-shooting-saskatchewan-canada/

http://www.newshashtags.com/trends/la-loche

Paladin1

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3412739/At-two-dead-one-arrested...

This paragraph at the end of the story stuck out to me.

Quote:
In 2014, a teacher expressed concern about violence at the La Loche school, citing an incident where a student who had tried to stab her was put back in her classroom after serving his sentence, and another attacked her at her home.

'That student got 10 months,' Janice Wilson told the CBC of the student who tried to stab her in class. 'And when he was released he was returned to the school and was put in my classroom.'

Paladin1

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/canada/we-will-not-be-allowing-anyone-...

It sounds like a teacher is one of the victims.

 

Correction; two teachers.

lagatta

André Picard on the school shooting and Indigenous despair:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/when-despair-reigns-violence-foll...

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I'm probably alone at babble with this position but fuck it. Time to trash the Young Offenders Act. It makes sense for youth guilty of petty crime but murder?

I remember being 17 and I was no more competent at 18. The difference is 3 years in juvenile detention to 20 years in prison.

The murders were premeditated and clearly,the suspect knew exactly what he was doing. He'll be back in the community by the time he's 21. It's bullshit. My heart goes out to the families and the community. I don't feel any sympathy whatsoever for the perp.

6079_Smith_W

Unless you are following that to its logical conclusion - putting them out of our misery - I don't see the point.

He was also roundly bullied.

I remember not to many years ago seeing a similar kid in our daughter's school flipping out and miming having a rifle in his hands, firing at people. The supervising teachers took him into the school, right past his 8 year old tormenters, standing there with shit-eating grins on their faces.

Sent a chill up my spine.

On another note, when his happens in San Diego (and it is happening right now as I post this) no one assumes this is the only thing that defines San Diego.

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

 

On another note, when his happens in San Diego (and it is happening right now as I post this) no one assumes this is the only thing that defines San Diego.

 

Please great spaghetti monster,let it NOT be a Muslim.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Unless you are following that to its logical conclusion - putting them out of our misery - I don't see the point.

He was also roundly bullied.

 

 

Are you suggesting the death penalty? If so,that is not something I'd support.

But even if the kid was bullied,does it justify his actions? Where do you draw the line? How can this be avoided? We can't start justifying mass murder with excuses such as bullying.

I have no idea how to eradicate such behavior. Kids are cruel and bullying has existed since the beginning of time. Anyone with an answer?

6079_Smith_W

But tossing a disturbed kid in a federal prison with a life sentence. That's okay?

We aren't hanging him, after all.

 

 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

But tossing a disturbed kid in a federal prison with a life sentence. That's okay?

We aren't hanging him, after all.

 

 

I don't know. But I think it's safe to say that anybody commiting mass murder are de facto 'disturbed'. I think 3 years in juvenile detention is a slap on the wrist for such a crime.

As I asked in my previous post,is there a definitive answer? I think competent mental health care can conclude whether the individual is simply 'disturbed' or a long term danger to society.

Crimes such as rape and murder are the most serious crimes one can commit. I have a hard time accepting leniancy in regards to such crimes.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Competency and being a responsible adult is a variable. In a legal sense, though, we have to choose a line somewhere. 18 seems to be the chosen line, not just for young offender/adult offender, but for joining the military and voting and, in some provinces, buying alcohol legally.

Is there a special internal shift that happens on the 18th birthday? No, of course not. But you have to have a line somewhere.

I don't know if there's going to be leniency - 3 years? Where are we getting that number? Could be more.  I'm more concerned that he get some psychiatric help, because whether he's tried as an adult or a youth, he will be out in the population some day.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Well, for things like driving, or buying alcohol, there's necessarily an arbitrary cut-off, because you can either drive or you can't, and you can either purchase alcohol or you can't.

But in theory, at least, juvenile sentencing could be on a progressive scale.  If you're ten, and you kill someone then maybe you get what anyone under 18 would get, but if you're 17 and kill someone, you get something in between what the ten year old would and what a 20 year old would.  This might better reflect the fact that at 17 you may still be a juvenile in some ways but you're really not a child anymore, and knowing better than to kill people shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation.

6079_Smith_W

Jesus, we just had a cop get off a murder charge, and there were plenty bending over backwards making excuses for the conviction he did get, and we're getting hard-assed about  a 17-year-old who snaps?

There are plenty of people hurting in that town, but I have heard no inerviews from anyone taking that line.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

That cop should have been charged with murder. Of course he wasn't,being a cop and all.

I'm not trying to be hard-assed about the shooter. I just have a hard time sympathizing with murderers. This is why I do not sympathize with that cop. There's something called a taser. But apparently,it's a toy they like to play with when a sus is unarmed. Kid with a pocket knife? Empty your weapon on him.

I hope that the 17 year-old gets the mental help that he needs. But I also hope he,in some way,is punished. If he killed one of my family members,I'd want blood. Turns out that the La Loche community are bigger people than me.

Timebandit Timebandit's picture

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Well, for things like driving, or buying alcohol, there's necessarily an arbitrary cut-off, because you can either drive or you can't, and you can either purchase alcohol or you can't.

But in theory, at least, juvenile sentencing could be on a progressive scale.  If you're ten, and you kill someone then maybe you get what anyone under 18 would get, but if you're 17 and kill someone, you get something in between what the ten year old would and what a 20 year old would.  This might better reflect the fact that at 17 you may still be a juvenile in some ways but you're really not a child anymore, and knowing better than to kill people shouldn't be an unreasonable expectation.

But a 10yr old and a 17yr old are not treated exactly the same under the young offender provisions. Young offender status allows a certain amount of flexibility in sentencing and in arriving at decisions on how to rehabilitate that are not possible under the adult offender rules.

kropotkin1951 kropotkin1951's picture

Here is an andedote to the community bashing in the MSM.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCAUW1LYTeQ&feature=youtu.be

quizzical

paladin please remove your post.

Paladin1

That town was in the news a few years back.

Quote:
http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/saskatchewan/violent-saskatchewan-mob...

A crowd of 50 to 70 people in the small northern town of La Loche, Sask., left a trail of destruction on Friday, storming a hospital, burning a police truck and attacking RCMP officers and paramedics.

Police said at around 3:15 a.m. CT in the town of about 2,300 residents, there were two big parties going on and two people were driving around on all-terrain vehicles.

When police tried to stop the ATVs, one of the vehicles went into a ditch and crashed. The driver, a 29-year-old man, passed out and an ambulance was called.

Then, crowds of people came out of the parties, apparently blaming the two RCMP officers for the man's injuries. The crowds attacked the Mounties, as well as paramedics, police said.

"Emergency personnel had cans, bottles, and other debris thrown at them," the RCMP said in a news release. "Several of the party-goers surrounded the police truck and ambulance and were threatening the members."

After the ambulance left the scene, police said they went to the hospital to check on the injured man. However, a crowd of 50 to 70 people also showed up at the hospital and tried to get in.

"It is believed the crowd's intent was to forcibly remove the two La Loche members that were inside the hospital," the RCMP said.

The police and hospital staff barricaded themselves inside, but people smashed the windows and kept trying to get in, police said.

Police said they had to use pepper spray to keep people out. All of the remaining Mounties in the town were called in for backup.

An RCMP truck was set on fire and the ambulance was severely damaged, police said.

The ATV driver was treated for minor injuries from his crash. None of the police or paramedics were seriously injured.

Police are continuing their investigation, but have not yet said what charges will be laid.

This isn't the first case of violence in the small village of La Loche.

Gang violence was blamed for the death of Matthew St. Pierre, 29, who was shot and killed across from the RCMP detachment on June 6, 2010.

In the summer of 2009, a 13-year-old girl was hit in a drive-by shooting. She survived her injuries but her father, Robert St. Pierre, said there was a definite culture of fear present in the community that made it difficult for some individuals to be brought to justice.

In 2009, RCMP told CBC News that there were possibly as many as 100 gang members in the village.

 

It may have nothing to do with the shooting or it could possibly paint a picture of an environment which lead this shooting. It's hard to say as there is very little news coming out about what happened and why.

Robert St Pierre says

Quote:
definite culture of fear present in the community that made it difficult for some individuals to be brought to justice.

This could possibly extend to someone being bullied and seeking help (but being unable to find it).

Paladin1

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/saskatchewan/security-person-to-be-deploye...

Security person to be added to La Loche school

Quote:

When school reopens in La Loche, Sask., later this winter there will be extra security people at work, the provincial government says.

The high school portion of La Loche Community School was the scene of a mass shooting on Friday that claimed the lives of a teacher, Adam Wood, 35, and an educational assistant, Marie Janvier, 21.

Two teens in the community, brothers Dayne and Drayden Fontaine, aged 17 and 13 respectively, were fatally shot in a home.

A 17-year-old boy has charged with four counts of first-degree murder and seven counts of attempted murder. 

Normally, some 300 to 350 students are enrolled in the Grade 7 to Grade 12 high school. About 500 students attend the kindergarten to Grade 6 school, which is in a separate building.

However, since the shootings, classes have been cancelled.

The Northern Lights School Division said it's developing a plan in consultation with parents and community to reopen the school.

Officials say the school will definitely not resume next week.

The school division met with teachers today to discuss options for where students might attend

At a meeting with parents on Tuesday, the division said it is prepared to add extra security which will involve putting a person inside the school to build relationships with students and staff.

It hasn't been decided yet whether that will be a security guard, a school resource officer or a member of the RCMP.

The plan is that the enhanced security will be permanent, although staffing decisions will have to be made, reviewed, and reconfirmed on an annual basis, officials said.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Why the judge felt the La Loche, Sask. school shooter needs to be sentenced as an adult

I suppose the one good thing to come of it is that, as the justice suggested, the programs and support that nobody denies he needs will be more available in the adult system.  I'm not saying it'll be enough, of course.

With an adult sentence, the publication ban on his identity will probably also be lifted.  Not that it's an important thing, but I can't deny I'll be curious to see what his relationship was with his first two victims.  Was he related to them, or were they longtime friends?  That would go a ways toward explaining:

- how he was able to ambush them in their own home

- why he evidently showed remorse at trial during the discussion of the first two killings, but little to none during discussion of the second two

- why a parent of the first two victims expressed a preference that he be sentenced as a youth