"Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism" - Canada's immigration minister

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Unionist
"Anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism" - Canada's immigration minister

This is another wake-up call for those who said there was no difference between a Harper government and all those that came before:

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2009/02/17/kenney-racism.html]
Kenney says some Canadian Arab groups express hatred toward Jews[/url]

Quote:

Canada's immigration minister suggested that organizations like the Canadian Arab Federation and Canadian Islamic Congress should not expect to receive government funding because of their "hateful sentiments" toward Israel and Jews.

"There are organizations in Canada, as in Britain, that receive their share of media attention and public notoriety, but who at the same time as expressing hateful sentiments, expect to be treated as respectable interlocutors in the public discourse," Jason Kenney said in a speech Tuesday at an international conference on anti-Semitism in London.

"These and other organizations are free within the confines of our law and consistent with our traditions of freedom of expression, to speak their mind, but they should not expect to receive resources from the state, support from taxpayers or any other form of official respect from the government or the organs of our state," Kenney said. [...]

Kenney said a new type of anti-Semitism is taking root in Canada that manifests itself in anti-Zionist views.

"We do see the growth of a new anti-Semitism, the anti-Semitism predicated on the notion that the Jews alone have no right to a homeland," Kenney said.

Kenney said this isn't about legitimate criticism of the Israeli government.

"The argument is with those whose premise is that Israel itself is an abomination, and that the Jews alone have no right to a homeland. And in that sense anti-Zionism is anti-Semitism," Kenney said.

I proudly fit this wannabe Bnai B'rither's definition of an "anti-Semite". People should be very concerned about this latest declaration of war against democracy. Members of his own party, and certainly those of other parties, should be asked to publicly distance themselves from his views. We must tell the world that he does not speak for Canada.

 

 

Caissa

The flip side of the "Zionism is racism." meme. Neither statement is helpful.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Okay, someone else wrote that speech for Jason Kenney. There's no way he even knows what "respectable interlocutors in the public discourse" means. I've met him and heard him speak (long icky story).

That said, I'm pretty sure he was chosen by his party to spread this particular message to the international community. Harper doesn't let anyone go out on their own, and Kenney is saying the Conservative party line, just with some new additions.

Oh, and I'm sure cutting the vast levels of funding the CAF gets federally will help with the deficit. Undecided

P.S. Damn it! After reading the article I started to read the comments. Note to self: Don't Do That, Ever! 

Unionist

I didn't mean to suggest this is Jason Kenney's personal crusade. I don't care who wrote the speech. Don't you think we should call on all people, including those who vote Conservative, to condemn this?

Stockholm

If we carry Kenney's comments to their logical conclusion i guess that also means that anyone who thinks that Palestinians or Tamils or Chechens also don't have a right to a country of their own - is also a racist and not deserving of any government funds.

Unionist

Or Quebeckers!

Michelle

The Jews alone have no right to a homeland?  Wow, that's amazing.

Where is the Baptist homeland?  I wanna go there!  Furthermore, I want to annex Alberta for my new Baptist homeland!

What?  You mean Albertans might have a problem with that?  It's not fair!  They're anti-Baptist!  The Baptists alone don't have a right to a homeland!

And Wiccans!  Where's their homeland?  Surely they deserve one after what witches have gone through in Europe and in other areas of the world.  And witches are still persecuted and discriminated against all over the world.  Which country should give up their land so that Wiccans can move in and create their own homeland?  Perhaps we could convince Ontarians to clear out, and the Canadian government to allow the New Wiccan Homeland to secede from Canada. 

After all, every group has a right to a homeland.

Caissa

Are we really going to compare being a Jew and being a Baptist?

 

The first question we pondered in a course I took on the history of Jews in the European Diaspora was "What is a jew?"

Michelle

You're right - Baptists are actually a privileged group in the US.  But Wiccans aren't.  Where's their homeland?

Where's the Atheist homeland, Caissa?  Don't atheists have a right to a homeland, and to clear out all the current inhabitants from whatever land the international community decides would be best?

josh

Attitude probably explains this differing response:

"President Barack Obama moved toward reversing the Bush administration's boycott of the United Nations Conference Against Racism by joining talks this week on the proposed outcome declaration.

Obama sent a delegation to negotiations that began today in Geneva, and the U.S. will consider attending the April 20-24 conference, according to the State Department. 

. . . . 

Israel and Canada have decided not to attend the conference in April, the UN said."

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aA8OrcAcDZ3c&refer=us

 

KenS

Given that Kenney is point man for increasing Cons multi-cultural depth [for which he has had some success]- I find this an alerming indication of how much they don't care what Muslims think and/or how much they have to gain among others with Muslim bashing.

I also think it was calculated. And I suspect they see benefits beyond ingratiating themselves with Jewish voters [the ones who were already leaning their direction are going to reliably like this].

 

And even it was Kenney going overboard with his personal opinion, its just as deplorable. I wouldn't bet everything the statement with a mandate from Harper. But I would bet that at the very least we are going to see no backtracking.

Caissa

Michelle are you being serious or frivolous and provocative? If you want to reduce Judaism to a religion, that's your prerogative but you know the historic terms of debate are much wider.

Salsa

Methinks the immigration minister should get  out of the real world and spend some time in the internet. Sheesh, that's the first time I've ever said that. Wink 

In every forum I've visited the anti-Zionism=anti Semitism argument has been crushed by the end of page one.

Maysie Maysie's picture

Salsa: Laughing

And the real world that Kenney inhabits is no real world that I would recognize.

Unionist: yes of course we need to call on everyone to condemn this, I just don't see it happening from Conservative circles. 

Maysie Maysie's picture

[thread drift]

I think the whole concept of "creating" a homeland, for any reason, and the idea of being entitled to having one/"returning" to one is an entirely weird concept to begin with, many times grounded in notions of imperialism and dominance, since aside from the aboriginal population who lives somewhere, everyone else is an outsider. Maybe a separate thread?

[/thread drift] 

Michelle

Thanks, Maysie, that was the point I was trying to illustrate too, but you said it better. :)

Caissa

It may seem old fashion but I support the right of both Jews  to have a homeland and the right of  Palestinians to have a homeland.

 

We just seem to go around the same mulberry bush...

johnpauljones

Look I think that this entire story is sad.  The CAF does good work on immigrant settlement issues. I have sat at meetings with their leadership at such meetings. Many organizations across Toronto get fed funds for such programs.

 

But at the same time the leadership of the largest Arab advocacy group should not have referred to a minister as a political whore. It is just not good optics.

If you are going to refer to the Minister that funds your programs as a political whore then you have to expect the Minister to respond.

 

Guess what Kenney fell for it -- now what happens?

Snert Snert's picture

Quote:
Which country should give up their land so that Wiccans can move in and create their own homeland?  Perhaps we could convince Ontarians to clear out, and the Canadian government to allow the New Wiccan Homeland to secede from Canada. 

After all, every group has a right to a homeland.

Did the left oppose the creation of Israel (or the theft of Palestine) when it was originally created? 

Michelle

I don't know.  I wasn't born yet.  What's your point?

Snert Snert's picture

Mostly that that would have been a more effective time to oppose appropriating the land.  Also that if the left supported the creation of Israel at the time, it makes it that much more difficult to oppose it now (not to be confused with opposing the actions of the State). 

Star Spangled C...

Isn't the CAF the group that passed around literature at the last Liberal leadership convention imploring people not to vote for Bob Rae because his wife is a Jew?

Caissa

The first country to recognize the new state of Israel in 1948 was the USSR. I don't know if that constitutes the Left, Snert.

remind remind's picture

Caissa wrote:
Michelle are you being serious or frivolous and provocative? If you want to reduce Judaism to a religion, that's your prerogative but you know the historic terms of debate are much wider.

Really, it is a religion forming a culture around it, and nothing more. And Michelle's points are more than valid. Next thing you know, the Mormon's will want a homeland, and it quite possibly could be Alberta!

Funny, I do not believe the historic terms of the debate are much wider than the current debate, AT ALL.

Caissa

Obviously our mileage varies, remind.

Michelle

Well, you know what they say, Snert.  The best time to do something is ten years ago.  The next best time to do it is now.

contrarianna

Snert wrote:
Mostly that that would have been a more effective time to oppose appropriating the land.  Also that if the left supported the creation of Israel at the time, it makes it that much more difficult to oppose it now (not to be confused with opposing the actions of the State). 

This line of thinking presumes a static state of Israel and is part of the confusion (often deliberate) surrounding the term "Zionism".

Regardless of the real injustices in the original violent creation of the state of Israel, most nations and people accept it as a fact and would be willing to guarantee its pre-1967 borders. So in that strict sense most nations and people could be labled as "Zionist".
.
However, Israel is not a static state. It is continually  in the process of ethnic clensing, expanding settlements and stealing resources from de facto annexed territories.

This is the form of imperialistic hyper-Zionism that most people of conscience object to when using the term "Zionism".
And it is also this pro imperialistic hyper-Zionism which is defended by the Canadian government's use of the term "Zionism", that is made very clear by its actions and words. 

 

Pino

The diaspora lobbying is very influential in US politics. As long as US is backing them, there will be no peace.

Media coverage and propaganda is very much in favor of Zionist purposes. Beside, regularly there's a holocaust reminder either a holywood movie, museums, monuments... 

Bottom line : Zionists beleive, as the Tora says, Palestine region is their promised land period! they dont care about UN, EU, international laws, racism, what we say on this blog or elsewhere...as simple as that

Star Spangled C...

Oh, don't bring the Torah into this, Pino. The founders of Zionism were NOT Torah-believing Jews. They were secular.

Pino

you're totally right, at the origin Zionists were not that religious.

But as u see today the people that keep supporting the ideas of zionism are very much religious, and Tora overrules all human rules , according to them... 

aka Mycroft

Quote:
you're totally right, at the origin Zionists were not that religious.

That's a gross understatement - the Zionist founders of Israel were not at all religious and many were anti-religious.

contrarianna

The word, Pino, is "Torah" and if you are not a thread-derailing troll, try to educate yourself before posting.

Pino

How do you know? did you know them in person? zinoist movement wasn't religious in its essence but individually they probably been religious..

Israel govt today is right wing and it finds its audience in many very religious groups...what zionists were at that time exactly is different from what Israel reality is today.

Instead of putting so much effort in correcting exact word meanings, i just wish that you put so much effort on helping Canada not to support such injustice in Palestine... 

 

Caissa

Do some reading on Theodore Herzl, Pino.

Pino

guys(3 last posters) you should go on the field and see what's happening! i may not be "academically" as educated as you pretend, and english is not my mother tongue btw, but i worry more for what the reality is... it's far away from your "intellectual-confort" zone...

In french there's a say: "intelligence is like jam, the less you have the more you spread"

Pino

You should have suggested to S.Harper to read Herzl

Pino

or to Kenney ...

contrarianna

Pino wrote:

guys(3 last posters) you should go on the field and see what's happening! i may not be "academically" as educated as you pretend, and english is not my mother tongue btw, but i worry more for what the reality is... it's far away from your "intellectual-confort" zone...

In french there's a say: "intelligence is like jam, the less you have the more you spread"

 

Intellegence is not a matter of academic education, and not having a firm grasp of the language (if such the case) is not a problem in itself--but intellegence certainly doesn't include making sweeping and grossly  inaccurate statements such as:
"Bottom line : Zionists beleive, as the Tora says, Palestine region is their promised land period!"

Have a look at the signs in the image here:

http://www.nkusa.org/
and here:

Israel versus Judaism
http://www.israelversusjudaism.org/index.cfm

Interpretations of the bible play a much more total role in "Christian Zionism."

Unionist

Star Spangled Canadian wrote:
Isn't the CAF the group that passed around literature at the last Liberal leadership convention imploring people not to vote for Bob Rae because his wife is a Jew?

That "blood libel" type big lie was amply refuted on this board at the time. Thanks for reviving this trash.

Star Spangled C...

Unionist wrote:
That "blood libel" type big lie was amply refuted on this board at the time. Thanks for reviving this trash.

"The Canadian Jewish Congress has condemned the flyer and blamed Khaled Mouammar, president of the Canadian Arab Federation for circulating it. The federation has, in turn, accused the CJC of making "a pitiful attempt to discredit" it and has denied producing or distributing the flyer.

 

Nevertheless, in a release Thursday, the federation supported the content of the flyer.

 

"CAF believes that Canadians have the right to know the factual information provided" in the flyer, the federation said.

 

It went on to say that the Jewish National Fund manages all state lands in Israel and allows only Jews to live on such land, a "practice that amounts to ethnic cleansing," and added that "Canadians have the right to know who supports the JNF in Canada."

 

The flyer was produced and e-mailed to all MPs by Ron Saba, editor of an obscure magazine called Montreal Planet. But The Canadian Press has obtained an e-mail from Mouammar, in which he forwarded the flyer to others. Several days before Saturday's leadership vote, it wound up being posted on a website operated by an immigrant advocacy group."

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20061207/bob_rae_061207/20061207/

Unionist

I am a Jew, and Canada is my homeland. The homeland of the significant majority of Jews in the world is not Israel. Jews are entitled to consider Israel as their "homeland" if they feel like it, as long as they abide by international law and don't oppress or expel others and actually live there.

But when non-Jew Kenney tells the world that the Jews are "entitled to a homeland", he is telling me that I don't belong in Canada. That makes him an anti-Semite, akin to Hitler.  He should go find a bunker somewhere and do the right thing.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

And, one of the motivations of the originag gentile supporters of Zionism, such as Arthur Balfour, was to keep Jews(especially those from the Pale, who were considered by the British to be spreaders of Bolshevism)from immigrating to places like Britain, Canada and the U.S.  If there was a "Jewish state" these reactionary antisemites reasoned, the Jews could be kept out of THEIR states.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________ Our Demands Most Moderate are/ We Only Want The World! -James Connolly

Stockholm

"Did the left oppose the creation of Israel (or the theft of Palestine) when it was originally created? "

The answer is NO. Back in the 40s, 50s, 60s and into the 70s - being pro-Israel was a sentiment that was largely associated with the Left. In those days, if you were a good social democrat in North America or Western Europe your idea of a politically correct holiday was to be a volunteer on a kibbutz etc...In those days, the people who tended to be anti-Israel in the western world were realpolitik-loving rightwingers in the foreign policy establishments of the US, UK and France who thought that it made sense to be pro-Arab because the Arabs had all the oil. On top of that old-fashioned rightwing anti-semites tended to be anti-Israel as part of a reflexive hostility to anything Jewish.

I realize that the situation today in 2009 is very different - but i'm just telling people what the situation was in the early years of Israeli independence.

Unionist

It's amazing how this thread attracts attacks on the very targets of the anti-Semite Jason Kenney, and nostalgia for how nice Israel was. It shows how deep-rooted is the desire to sympathize with European settlers and denigrate the indigenous population. People should ask themselves how they manage to end up on the same side as aggressors and murderers, while still nourishing the narcissistic fantasy that they belong to the "Left".

aka Mycroft

I think many of the early Socialist Zionist kibbutz settlers would be aghast at what Israel has become.

If one is to be true to ones ideals one has to also take long hard reality checks. Otherwise, you end up thinking Stalin is the savior of the working class long after that ship has sailed and sunk or thinking that Israel is some sort of peacenik, socialist paradise when the kibbutzes have all largely abandoned most tenets of collectivism and largely privatized, most of the agricultural work is done by Thai foreign workers, own factories where other Thai workers toil, and exclude Palestinians from kibbutz membership.

Lord Palmerston

Sounds like Jason Kenney's speech was written by Irwin Cotler.

Stockholm

"If one is to be true to ones ideals one has to also take long hard reality checks."

There are some babblers who still refuse to acknowledge that Stalin ever did anything bad!!

Unionist

Stalin? He also believed Jews were entitled to a fucking "homeland". Google Birobidjan. The Israeli aggressors have many troubling features in common with both Hitler and Stalin. And we are still plagued with so-called "leftists" who can always see the evils of the past, but never the ones of the present.

Stockholm

"And we are still plagued with so-called "leftists" who can always see the evils of the past, but never the ones of the present."

That's for damn sure - look at all the people who are still in denial about how evil Robert Mugabe is.

RevolutionPlease RevolutionPlease's picture

Stockholm wrote:

"And we are still plagued with so-called "leftists" who can always see the evils of the past, but never the ones of the present."

That's for damn sure - look at all the people who are still in denial about how evil Robert Mugabe is.

 

sorry for the drift

 

It's not so much we support Mugabe but oppose the use of anti-colonialism gone wrong as a crutch.

Unionist

[deleted to try to navigate around drift]

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