NDP Ex-MPs to rock Couillard's world?

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lombardimax@hot...

An interesting read below for anyone who questions Quebec Solidaire's commitment to socialism over sovereignty:

 

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2017/01/03/queb-j03.html

 

lagatta4

Not interesting at all. WSWS and the tiny sect behind it are utterly tone-deaf to the national question and labour and other social movements in Québec. I remember their carping during the Student Spring. They consistently support the dominant nation and deny the right to self-determination. I think that as Brecht said, they would like to dissolve the Québécois people and elect another people...

I'd also like to point out that the question of self-determination and sovereignty is only growing more complex with the growing recognition of the sovereignty and right to self-determination of Indigenous nations, which makes the question far more complex still, and requires looking at it in new ways. Different left currents that have joined QS - and others that haven't, have been saying this since Oka at least.

And for cripes' sake, they are angryphones!!!

(other political group) hailed indépendantiste nationalism as a form of “anti-imperialism” and supported the call for chauvinist language laws.

Mangez donc d'la marde!

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

swallow wrote:

The Quebec NDP will run in the next Quebec elections, says (interim?) leader Pierre Ducasse. Can't find anything in the English media but since it's in La Presse today, it will probably be in The Gazette tomorrow. 

[url=http://www.lapresse.ca/actualites/politique/politique-quebecoise/201610/...ès plusieurs mois de consultations, le Nouveau Parti démocratique du Québec «enclenche» le processus qui l'amènera à présenter des candidats aux prochaines élections provinciales, a confirmé à La Presse son chef par intérim.[/url]

Ducasse has just put out an open letter that maps out the outlines of an NPDQ potential platform. [url=https://www.facebook.com/npdq2018/posts/680609272114551]RECHERCHÉ : PROJET DE SOCIÉTÉ. Lettre ouverte par Pierre Ducasse[/url]

If they do, they should only stand in ridings NOT held by QS.  There is no good reason for a QNDP to try to take seats already held by a left party.  It would be unforgiveable for a QNDP to do anything that resulted in those seats falling to the PLQ(or worse, to CAQ) on a split of the left vote.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

Not interesting at all. WSWS and the tiny sect behind it are utterly tone-deaf to the national question and labour and other social movements in Québec. I remember their carping during the Student Spring. They consistently support the dominant nation and deny the right to self-determination. I think that as Brecht said, they would like to dissolve the Québécois people and elect another people...

I'd also like to point out that the question of self-determination and sovereignty is only growing more complex with the growing recognition of the sovereignty and right to self-determination of Indigenous nations, which makes the question far more complex still, and requires looking at it in new ways. Different left currents that have joined QS - and others that haven't, have been saying this since Oka at least.

And for cripes' sake, they are angryphones!!!

(other political group) hailed indépendantiste nationalism as a form of “anti-imperialism” and supported the call for chauvinist language laws.

Mangez donc d'la marde!

Mon Dieu!

I live on the West Coast of the US and have a better grasp of Quebec than those people do!  Where the hell did they get the idea that francophone Quebec workers were TRICKED into supporting sovereigntism?  Or that QS is part of a capitalist plot(a plot that apparently also includes "Pabloites", Stalinists AND Maoists-a coalition that sounds like an "opposites day" version of the People's Front of Judea/Judean People's front rivalry from THE LIFE OF BRIAN) to prevent the creation of a revolutionary party?  Was the WSW the one group on Quebec's left that wasn't allowed to join QS?  I ask that because the article sounds like somebdy settling scores.

genstrike

Never mind, found the answer

lombardimax@hot...
lombardimax@hot...

Karl Belanger gives his take on the new NDP-Q ...

https://translate.google.com/translate?ie=UTF-8&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Flac...

lagatta4

Yes, although QS remains small, it has more than doubled in size, become much younger and increased its following outside the Mtl metropolitan area signficantly. In part this is because of the Faut qu'on se parle (We have to talk) process started last year with a group of progressive people from different backgrounds, many of them young and not all from QS, on a long "listening" tour throughout Québec, even in remote regions, to grasp the concerns of people in regions far from Mtl and Qc.  https://www.fautquonseparle.org/

I don't know whether their book, Ne renonçons à rien, is being translated into English yet. It is supposed to be. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

Yes, although QS remains small, it has more than doubled in size, become much younger and increased its following outside the Mtl metropolitan area signficantly. In part this is because of the Faut qu'on se parle (We have to talk) process started last year with a group of progressive people from different backgrounds, many of them young and not all from QS, on a long "listening" tour throughout Québec, even in remote regions, to grasp the concerns of people in regions far from Mtl and Qc.  https://www.fautquonseparle.org/

I don't know whether their book, Ne renonçons à rien, is being translated into English yet. It is supposed to be. 

And I think those who wanted an NPD-Quebec have realized that they could only build such a party by being going scorched-earth on QS and focusing on destroying that party to the exclusion of all other objectives.-essentially, by doing unto QS as the old Canadian Communist Party used to do unto the CCF

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

Yes, although QS remains small, it has more than doubled in size, become much younger and increased its following outside the Mtl metropolitan area signficantly. In part this is because of the Faut qu'on se parle (We have to talk) process started last year with a group of progressive people from different backgrounds, many of them young and not all from QS, on a long "listening" tour throughout Québec, even in remote regions, to grasp the concerns of people in regions far from Mtl and Qc.  https://www.fautquonseparle.org/

I don't know whether their book, Ne renonçons à rien, is being translated into English yet. It is supposed to be. 

And I think those who wanted an NPD-Quebec have realized that they could only build such a party by being going scorched-earth on QS and focusing on destroying that party to the exclusion of all other objectives.-essentially, by doing unto QS as the old Canadian Communist Party used to do unto the CCF

I think that's a stretch. I joined QS as a show of support for Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois. I still don't think they have a chance of winning power provincially. I just want their voice to be a little louder. A provincial NDP would have a strong chance of actually winning power in Quebec.

Edited to add:

I see a tendency from the left of assuming people are making decisions based on in depth knowledge or have shifted ideologically on insufficient evidence.

When the federal Liberals were bleeding support left and right it wasn't that voters had shifted ideologically or had even shifted their alligence to different parties. They never had any alligence to begin with. The orange wave did not signify a huge shift to the left. Instead it was a result of the NDP convincing people they were centrist. That was the same way Harper won. Trudeau's win is not evidence of some massive shift in political philosophy. Voters just thought he would run the economy and country better than Harper or Mulcair. Now most swing voters are back watching Survivor not question period.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

So Pondering, what's YOUR theory as to why NPD-Quebec is still not a thing?

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

So Pondering, what's YOUR theory as to why NPD-Quebec is still not a thing?

 

pietro_bcc

I'm a member of the NPDQ and to answer the question of "why not vote QS which is already established" for me its because I'm an anglophone and while I have voted QS in the past (because I like their policies apart from separation) I will not vote for a separatist party who has a chance of winning (whether in a coalition with the PQ or on its own because of the 4 way split in voter intention.) Sure "you can vote no in the referendum", but a win by a separatist party doesn't just represent a referendum for our minority community. It represents another 10-20 thousand anglophones moving out of Quebec that we can never replace because of Bill 101, it represents further hospital and school cuts and closures (over and above what the Liberals already do), it represents a further degradation in our language rights. While I can vote no in a referendum, I can't vote no when it comes to those policies.

Without a change to Bill 101 our community is already dead (every census year shows that our population share in Quebec drops by half a percent or more) and without a change to Bill 101 we'll be gone within 20 or 30 years depending on the political situation, the morbid choice we have as a community is to continue bleeding out by voting federalist or to vote ourselves out of existence as a community by voting separatist. I vote continuing to hold on as a community in hope of a savior who will probably never come.

I've been attending the meetings held by the party regularly and will vote for the NPDQ candidate if there is one running in my riding. Finally left wing federalists have a choice, probably for the first time ever or at the very least since '76. I doubt we'll win a seat in the next election, but its not completely out of the realm of possibility for a new party in our province.

pietro_bcc

The NPD-Q will elect its new leader on January 21st.

http://montrealgazette.com/news/ndp-quebec-to-elect-new-leader-in-january

lagatta4

Pietro, anglofono? Davvero?

Having to communicate in French as a common language will not harm your community; on the contrary. Why on earth would progressive people of Italian, Hispanic, Lusophone etc origins rather learn English, a Germanic language? And living in French in no way compromises your ability to perfect your English, or your Spanish for that matter, in North America

It is bad enough that Celts from the Sceptered Isles were starved into emigration because sheep were more valuable than crofters, and then sided with their tormentors.

Why the fuck are you supporting national oppression? I don't really care whether or not you support Québec independence; I think the whole national question has seen a qualitative shift due to the demands of Indigenous peoples moving front and centre, as they should. The question is supporting self-determination and identifying with those who have experienced national oppression - or worse, genocide, in the case of Indigenous peoples (and perhaps Acadians, and certainly Métis).

Believe me, I understand why RIGHTWING Italophones, Hispanophones, Lusophones etc want to speak English: because money talks. Leftists should be in opposition to that kind of crap. Which in no way prevents them from learning English or any other language.

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