NDP Ex-MPs to rock Couillard's world?

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alan smithee alan smithee's picture

lombardimax@hotmail.com wrote:

First leadership debate:
http://montrealgazette.com/news/local-news/ndp-quebec-leadership-candida...

Best quotes:
Fortin said the provincial NDP is offering a voice for left-of-centre federalists. All the parties that currently have members in the National Assembly are either centrist, centre-right or sovereignist, he said. Québec solidaire, currently the most left-wing party in the provincial legislature, has been focusing more and more on its support for an independent Quebec, Fortin said. “It’s almost their first issue now.”

Côté said many Quebecers, rather than voting for a party they support, vote for the party they dislike the least.  “I believe that the electors in the province of Quebec want to have a new option.”

It's a pity they have 11 months to organize, elect a leader and get exposure. They should have done that at least 2 years ago and instead there's a big possibility we're going to end up with a CAQ government which is even worse than the current government in Quebec.

Things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. I'm getting older,not younger . I can't wait another 5-10 years or more for all I know.

It's too little,too late.

NorthReport

Finally!

Let's get this show on the road.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party_of_Quebec

pietro_bcc

I was at the debate and I'm quite impressed with both candidates. There's a video on the facebook group for anyone interested, though there's no video of the policy forum that preceded the debate, which was quite interesting itself.

lombardimax@hot...

http://www.cbc.ca/beta/news/canada/montreal/if-qu%C3%A9bec-solidaire-and...

The slow motion train wreck of Quebec Solidaire selling its soul to hard-line nationalists in exchange for — crickets. Quebec progressives who are not hard-line sovereigntists will have a new home in the  Quebec NDP.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

... Further reducing the amount needed for a parliamentary phoney majority in the National Assembly...

lagatta4
lagatta4

Here is the qs communiqué on the merger: https://quebecsolidaire.net/nouvelle/congres-de-quebec-solidaire-les-mem...

I didn't attend; I'm very busy with work and billing, and still not feeling 100% after being very ill this autumn. I probably would have attended at least part of it if I lived in another riding, but I live in Gouin (GND's riding) so there was no shortage of would-be delegates.

swallow

From CBC link:

Quote:

Option Nationale officials, moreover, have been critical in the past of Québec Solidaire's dedication to multiculturalism and its defence of higher immigration levels. That's made QS members worried the party is sacrificing its progressive values for the sake of trying to build votes among more identity-focused sovereignists.

"I could go as an observer, but I don't have the heart to watch this party that I have been so committed to building go through a train-wreck," said May Chiu, an anti-racism activist who was a candidate for Québec Solidaire in the 2008 election.

Well put.

I don't intend to vote QS any longer. 

lagatta4

Actually, I think those more rightwing sovereigntists broke with ON over the planned merger with QS. There was a very progressive young woman candidate for ON in my riding, and if QS wasn't an option, I'd have voted for her.

lagatta4

Here is an opinion piece from Sol Zanetti against those who oppose "diversity": http://quebec.huffingtonpost.ca/sol-zanetti/sattaquer-diversite-replique...

I'm not at all an expert on Option nationale, but I think that the more rightwing "identitaires" have gone elsewhere with the rappochement with GS. Of course all of this remains to be seen.

Pondering

lagatta4 wrote:
By the way, I am not a "nationalist"; I support the same rights for Indigenous nations as for the Québécois nation. If we lose almost half "our" territory, so be it. The question is national self-determination.  

If the question is self-determination maybe you should respect what the people determine they want rather than opposing them based on what you want and believe is right. When Quebec sovereignists were at their strongest they were insisting that Quebec's borders would not change. They knew their support would be in the single digits if there was any hint that Quebec would not remain whole. The only chance the "sovereignty for elites" movement had of success was deceiving the people.

Is it QS's position or your position that Quebec's borders could change?

lagatta4 wrote:
And here, people scabbing on a decade-long struggle for a truly leftist party.

You are out above all to destroy Québec solidaire. Fuck you.

I'm in favor of democracy. You only want self-determination if everyone determines they want what you want.  From the history I just read it is QS that is the scab. If you are anything to go by QS wants to deny Quebecers the opportunity to vote for a social justice party unless they embrace sovereignty which the majority of Quebecers are against therefore QS is putting sovereignty ahead of social justice.

Québec solidaire is destroying Québec solidaire by putting its ideology over the wants and needs of the people of Québec.

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

So Pondering, what's YOUR theory as to why NPD-Quebec is still not a thing?

It's becoming a thing. From wiki:

The original party emerged from the Quebec Chapter of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation, and aside from temporarily holding a single seat in the National Assembly (David Côté) it only played a minor role in Quebec provincial politics. During the late 1980s it came under the leadership of radical sovereigntists, prompting a rupture from the federal NDP. It voted to disaffiliate from the federal party in 1989 and changed its name to the Parti de la democratie socialiste or "Party of Democratic Socialism" in 1994.

Apparently radical sovereignists took over and killed it. Sovereignists would rather Quebec be controlled by right wingers in the hopes it will convince Quebecers to embrace sovereignty. Instead it has lead to Quebecers embracing the right in the form of CAQ and the Liberals. The left is nowhere to be seen. They are off in corner somewhere committing suicide on the alter of sovereignty.

The more I pay attention to politics the more I see that there is no political party interested in representing the interests of the 99% as the 99% sees it. They either want to change what the 99% wants or they want to give them just enough to win elections.

Pondering

lagatta4 wrote:
Believe me, I understand why RIGHTWING Italophones, Hispanophones, Lusophones etc want to speak English: because money talks. Leftists should be in opposition to that kind of crap. Which in no way prevents them from learning English or any other language.

The elite of Quebec want only French spoken so they have a captive worker population that has trouble even vacationing anywhere in North America while of course they educate their own children in English so the wealthy have no such limitations. Makes it easy for them to rule Quebec and line their coffers.  I suppose you also want English CEGEPs starved so they can't accept as many  francophones?

Leftists should be against people making money? Yes, people definitely want to learn English because it helps their professional development which leads to increased income which leads to a more comfortable and secure life. That is not a sin. It doesn't make them right wing.

You may be 100% right in every view you hold, in every nuance of eco-feminism, but your intolerance of others puts you in the wrong because that is never right. You want to deny people a political voice. QS will win in my riding and I was going to vote for them in solidarity but you changed my mind. Even if the NDP doesn't have a hope in hell of winning my riding I will vote for them as a gesture of solitarity and gratitude for giving me a choice to vote left without voting for "sovereignty". 

lagatta4

Because you don't agree with me, you won't vote for the QS candidate (who won't be me; I have no interest in standing for office) in a riding where I don't live?

Not that any of this matters. I have a right to think and say what I want. So do you. Of course I want workers to be able to earn money. That is not what the phrase "money talks" means. It refers to what is now called the power of the 1%, or the moneyed elite. And since when was I against people learning as many languages as possible? That is NOT what the domination of English means, or the threat of assimilation. Moreover, Couillard is certainly not standing up for the defence of French, on the contrary. And the CAQ's solution is the reproductive slavery of Québécoise women... Duplessis relooked.

But your analysis of Québec history seems strangely blind to the very strong influence of labour and popular movements in movements for francisation and greater autonomy, up to and including sovereignty.

What I said about the rights of indigenous nations was my opinion, not the opinion of a party. But QS definitely stands in solidarity with the 11 Indigenous nations in Québec, as well as others throughout the world.

Pondering

lagatta4 wrote:
Because you don't agree with me, you won't vote for the QS candidate (who won't be me; I have no interest in standing for office) in a riding where I don't live?

I suspect your views concerning the NDP are similar to the rest of QS now that it has joined forces with ON. I am so fed up with the left's obsession with sovereignty over social justice. Yes I know QS is also concerned about social justice but they would rather lose elections over sovereignty than win them without it. I am sickened that this next election seems to be between the Liberals and the CAQ, both right wing parties willing to shut-up about sovereignty, and no left wing party willing to represent the majority of Quebecers except maybe the NDP a little tiny bit.

lagatta4 wrote:
 That is not what the phrase "money talks" means. It refers to what is now called the power of the 1%, or the moneyed elite.

The moneyed elite in Quebec are French not English.

lagatta4 wrote:
And since when was I against people learning as many languages as possible? That is NOT what the domination of English means, or the threat of assimilation.

No one is attacking French in Quebec. It is entirely within the power of the people of Quebec to be as French as they choose to be.

lagatta4 wrote:
 Moreover, Couillard is certainly not standing up for the defence of French, on the contrary.

How has he failed to defend French and from whom?

lagatta4 wrote:
. And the CAQ's solution is the reproductive slavery of Québécoise women... Duplessis relooked.

I hate CAQ and their rise is in part due to the Quebec left's focus on sovereignty over social justice.

lagatta4 wrote:
But your analysis of Québec history seems strangely blind to the very strong influence of labour and popular movements in movements for francisation and greater autonomy, up to and including sovereignty.

Just the opposite. Labour and popular movements were betrayed by the PQ. The Quiet Revolution was driven by a desire for social justice not separation from Canada. They were fooled into thinking their only enemy was English oligarchs leaving the French oligarchs off the hook.

Ever since then social justice has been in second place behind sovereignty association.

lagatta4 wrote:
What I said about the rights of indigenous nations was my opinion, not the opinion of a party. But QS definitely stands in solidarity with the 11 Indigenous nations in Québec, as well as others throughout the world.

Can't have it both ways. Either indigenous people have the same right to self-determination as Quebecers or they do not. Either QS is honest with people or they are not.

The truth is that Quebec's borders would likely change but sovereignists will never be honest with the people over that because they would lose whatever little support they had.

It really does seem to me that the left in Quebec is politically suicidal. They would rather lose to the right than give the 99% what they want to win elections then persuade them on other topics. Instead the left insists on 100% buy in on every topic and loses while the moderate left supports neoliberalism and loses. The only left that cares about trade deals are unions and the Council of Canadians. That includes Quebec. Quebec has signed on to CETA and TPP but I don't hear QS talking about that. Sovereignty is just so much more important. If I didn't know better I'd think QS was there to sabotage the left in Quebec.

This is the first entry on the QS website:

https://api-wp.quebecsolidaire.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/resultats-...

On the economic front they are anti-capitalist but they are all or nothing. At least they do oppose CETA, probably the only political party in Canada that does.

I am so sick of never having anyone to vote for provincially or federally.

 

 

 

 

lombardimax@hot...

"It's a big step forward for independence," Nadeau-Dubois said when the merger plans were announced in October.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/optional-nationale-votes-yes-to-q...

 

Pondering

lombardimax@hotmail.com wrote:

"It's a big step forward for independence," Nadeau-Dubois said when the merger plans were announced in October.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/optional-nationale-votes-yes-to-q...

Well he's got himself a job that will look great on his resume. I hope he doesn't really think this is actually a step forward for "independence". Quebec already decided, independently, to remain within Canada. Maybe someday politicians will put the interests of the people first but probably not in my lifetime.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

As a practical matter, even if QS were to be elected, I doubt they'd push for an immediate referendum or even necessarily do a referendum at all.  They would want the chance to pass their agenda, and going immediately to a referendum would pretty much force them to put that aside.  Also, they are aware of the poll numbers of 

Also, if you want the NPD-Q to be an actual alternative to QS,  you're going to need to push them to actually be a Left party...to be "QS with federalism".  They aren't going to win anyone over by taking a "we have no truck with any of that socialist nonsense-we're a MODERN 'center-left' party!" nonsense.  Is that something you plan to do if you end up supporting them?

And would you agree that there's no reason for the NPD-Q to nominate candidates in any of the current QS ridings, given that nobody but the PLQ and the CAQ would benefit from them doing so?  That it should not be the purpose of the NPD-Q to try and wipe QS out?

lagatta4

Well, in my riding it would be most likely to benefit the PQ...

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lagatta4 wrote:

Well, in my riding it would be most likely to benefit the PQ...

​And you'd think that would be the LAST party Pondering would want to help.

Pondering

The NDP is closer to the Liberal party than QS on the political spectrum. QS is not in competition to win elections in Quebec. The best they can do is less than a handful of seats if that. The NDP could be competitive within a couple of years because they are not a leftist party. The official NDP is centre and they accept neoliberalism. Like the Liberals they just want to soften the edges.

As to the PQ, what does it matter? Quebecers have rejected separation from Canada twice. If the PQ is silly enough to try again they will lose again because the majority of Quebecers wish to continue using a Canadian passport. I was horrified that it looks like CAQ could win the next election but really what does it matter? It's not like it's going to change anything. The Liberals will probably win again anyway because they will open up the cookie jar before the election.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

The standard patter from sovereignist parties is to say the referendum will happen in the second mandate. Which means not at all. 

Pondering

progressive17 wrote:
The standard patter from sovereignist parties is to say the referendum will happen in the second mandate. Which means not at all.

Unfortunately it still puts them in opposition to the majority of Quebecers. As long as the left considers separation from Canada to be the sword to die on the left will die. Sovereignists don't want Quebec to flourish as part of Canada. They need grievances to justify separation. The two competitive parties in Quebec have rejected the topic and focus on governing Quebec. Hopefully the NDPQ can make some inroads.

lagatta4

They won't, either in Gouin or in Mercier. If you vote against us, you are helping the PQ.  Not that I care what you do, as you have always poo-pooed activism and activists in favour of a passive "silent majority".

In the last election, almost all the posters of the (islamophobic) PQ candidate were defaced. I'm confident that wasn't done by QS activists; it was young unaligned activists.

 

Pondering

lagatta4 wrote:
They won't, either in Gouin or in Mercier. If you vote against us, you are helping the PQ.  Not that I care what you do, as you have always poo-pooed activism and activists in favour of a passive "silent majority".

Well you obviously made ignorant assumptions about me because I am all for activism I just think that activists are stuck in a rut using old-fashioned methods and approaches that are leading to failure in the battle against neoliberalism. I also think that activists lack respect for the general public too whom I guess you are referring to when saying "the silent majority".

I have no doubt at all that QS will win my riding. Do you seriously think there is a risk that they will not win Mercier? If there is any chance at all that they will lose the seat in the next election I'm sure I will know about it in time. That means I can use my vote to send a message.

Do you disagree that the official NDP is closer to the Liberals than to QS on the political spectrum?

progressive17 progressive17's picture

It is not really clear what the NDP stand for. In Alberta, it seems to be oil, and in BC, it seems to be Site C. If the NDP want to distinguish themselves from the Liberal Tory Same Old Story, they need to stand against neoliberalism.

- Canadian money in tax havens needs to be repatriated and taxed. Otherwise Canadian tax rates are high enough, if only the rich were not allowed to avoid them.
- Higher progressive taxes on dividend income with exemptions for pension funds.
- There needs to be a Made-In-Canada industrial policy including Green initiatives, public works, skills development, protection of Canadian industry, and technological assistance for SMEs. 
- We need tighter control over imports made in countries which allow slavery.
- We need income supports to end poverty.

The NDP seems to need a spine.

pietro_bcc

Its interesting how people seem to be discussing the NDPQ's place on the political spectrum. I must've missed the first policy convention and election of the first leader.

Raph Fortin from what I've seen seems to be a more centrist option of the current federal NDP strain and Raymond Cote seems to be more on the left (he even endorsed Niki Ashton in the leadership race.) You don't know what the NDPQ stands for because the party members themselves haven't decided what they stand for as far as policy is concerned (there are some broad set of principles outlined in the constitution and texts but not specific policy) that will come on January 21st.

Pondering

pietro_bcc wrote:

Its interesting how people seem to be discussing the NDPQ's place on the political spectrum. I must've missed the first policy convention and election of the first leader.

Raph Fortin from what I've seen seems to be a more centrist option of the current federal NDP strain and Raymond Cote seems to be more on the left (he even endorsed Niki Ashton in the leadership race.) You don't know what the NDPQ stands for because the party members themselves haven't decided what they stand for as far as policy is concerned (there are some broad set of principles outlined in the constitution and texts but not specific policy) that will come on January 21st.

I said NDP not NDPQ because I don't expect the NDPQ to be much different from the NDPA or the NDPO etc. Generally speaking QS is far more left than any of them. QS has male and female co-spokespeople instead of a leader. No matter how left-leaning the NDPQ ends up it will still be centre-left not left. It will still be a more conventional party with a much larger potential voter base than QS. A district like mine, Mercier, will stay QS. The NDPQ is more likely to take support from CAQ and the PQ and the Liberals than from QS. From CAQ because many CAQ voters are just sick of the Liberals and the PQ. From the PQ because the PQ used to be the moderate left. From the Liberals (and CAQ) because they were the only federalist option.

We will see but my prediction is that the NDPQ will have very little impact on the QS vote. We will see next election.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Given that the NDP has performed so poorly in the rest of Canada of late, what reason is there to believe they will do well in Quebec? They could even get a good leader who is popular, but the party's poll numbers could stay marginal, as in Ontario. 

Saying that QS is a one-pony party on sovereignity is unfair. When it comes to issues that matter to people, they are always there with some analysis. Even the anglo media want to hear what they say. They punch well above their weight. They have a good ground game and well-established roots in the communities in which they are strong. As in the case of Project Montreal, it should eventually bear fruit. 

And say the NDPQ takes Quebec by storm and gets up to say 10% or even 15% in the polls. There will be people voting CAQ, Liberal, PQ, and QS. Unlike these parties, the NDPQ will have no "pockets of support" which might translate into seats. NDPQ support, like current NDP support in the Rest of Canada will likely be a mile wide and an inch thick. Translation: zero seats.

Rural francophone ridings are the low-hanging fruit. They have far fewer electors than urban ridings. In these places it will be a 3-way battle between the Liberals, the CAQ, and the PQ. QS and the NDPQ will be nowhere.

Under an FPTP system, this means that a given party could win a majority of seats on under 30% of the popular vote. As someone who believes in democracy and government by the people, I find this to be especially dismal. 

It now seems to be in the interest of the Liberals, the CAQ, the PQ, QS, and the NDPQ to campaign on proportional representation. It would be nice if they all did it.

Pondering

progressive17 wrote:
 Given that the NDP has performed so poorly in the rest of Canada of late, what reason is there to believe they will do well in Quebec? They could even get a good leader who is popular, but the party's poll numbers could stay marginal, as in Ontario. 

Quebec is nothing like Ontario politically. Quebec voters are more adventuresome than the average, more willing to upset the applecart. It's why Quebec has a reputation of being unpredictable. As a brand new party their numbers could be bleak but so what? What does it harm? They won't be taking anything away from QSON both parts of which have had plenty of time to establish themselves. Have you forgotten the Orange Wave? Quebecers are very capable of turning on a dime.

progressive17 wrote:
 
Saying that QS is a one-pony party on sovereignity is unfair.

Then it's a good thing I never said that. "Falling on their sword" for it just means it is not something they are willing to set aside in order to advance. That is one aspect of the QS but it is a huge aspect and one they have decided to emphasize in their union with Option Nationale. They don't have to renounce it but they do have to be clear that it's a closed issue for the moment. Their primary focus should be to prove to Quebecers that they are capable of running the province within federalism and delivering progressive provincial policy rather than focusing on percieved federal interference. Once they have achieved that goal they will have an argument for independence. Sovereignists are putting the cart before the horse. The old grievances no longer hold water. Quebec controls its own immigration, has a place on the international stage, has its own civil law, has been able to legislate protection for the French language and culture. Sovereignists have to prove they can do a much better job of running Quebec than the federal government does running Canada. There would have to be very clear concrete economic not symbolic benefits to separation. Even people who intellectually support the notion of sovereignty still won't support it because of the potential economic disruption. If, once in power, sovereignists proved they could root out corruption and deliver services efficiently and become genuinely transparent so citizens could see where our money is going I would vote for sovereignty.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/if-qu%C3%A9bec-solidaire-and-opti...

It would be a union of the small with the microscopic, but should Québec Solidaire and Option Nationale proceed with their proposed merger, it would alter the political environment for two increasingly rare species in Quebec: sovereignists and progressives.

We have sovereignist progressive parties, 2 of them, now 1, we have right wing sovereignists, PQ, we have right wing federalists, we have right wing inbetweeners, the CAQ. What we do not have is a progressive party willing to drop the sovereignty question.

Sovereignists have to come up with a particular reason for separating from Canada and because of the PQ they don't have one. Canada isn't threatening French in Quebec. Their latest emergency is stores in Montreal greeting customers with bonjour/hi in Montreal, the horror. CAQ even admitted their point in proposing it was to prove the Liberals aren't really committed to supporting French in Quebec. I'm hoping that is going to hurt them. The grand majority of French people in Quebec don't feel threatened by English anymore. Sovereignists have tried to focus on language as the issue but it was always intertwined with protecting the culture. That is what people are afraid of everywhere. They like living in a community where everyone shares the same values and cultural touchstones. They want Christmas trees not Holiday trees. In Quebec it takes on special significance for obvious reasons.

progressive17 wrote:

When it comes to issues that matter to people, they are always there with some analysis. Even the anglo media want to hear what they say. They punch well above their weight. They have a good ground game and well-established roots in the communities in which they are strong. As in the case of Project Montreal, it should eventually bear fruit.  

I have voted for them to give them a voice but they are nothing like Project Montreal and they don't have Valerie Plante. Project Montreal and Valerie Plante are intent on running the city for the benefit of Montrealers through practical changes.  There focus is on being good administrators. They aren't trying to sell anything else.

progressive17 wrote:
And say the NDPQ takes Quebec by storm and gets up to say 10% or even 15% in the polls. There will be people voting CAQ, Liberal, PQ, and QS. Unlike these parties, the NDPQ will have no "pockets of support" which might translate into seats. NDPQ support, like current NDP support in the Rest of Canada will likely be a mile wide and an inch thick. Translation: zero seats. 

That's possible but not predictable. Parties do shoot up rather suddenly in Quebec. The NDPQ just might be what people are waiting for. A party that will ignore the sovereignty issue and govern moderately progressively, like Projet Montreal.

progressive17 wrote:
 It now seems to be in the interest of the Liberals, the CAQ, the PQ, QS, and the NDPQ to campaign on proportional representation. It would be nice if they all did it.

I haven't thought about it a lot but I think I would be willing to try PR provisionally at the provincial level.

progressive17 progressive17's picture

The Journal de Montreal included the Conservative Party of Quebec in a recent poll I read. They were at something like 3-5%, but they were still included. Add the NDPQ and you now have 6 parties. I am afraid some party is going to be able to get a virtual dictatorship on around 30% of the vote. 

For the people of Quebec to be properly represented in the National Assembly, there has to be some form of proportional representation, or failing that at least runoff elections. The danger of doing nothing is that whichever party that wins in this scenario is going to be able to foist their agenda on the vast majority of the population which did not support them.

NorthReport

Long, long overdue, but better late than never. 

And provincial wings of the NDP can be a big help to the federales during federal elections as well.

Provincial NDP looks to make Quebec comeback as leadership race draws to a close

Raymond Côté and Raphaël Fortin are both vying to lead the newly revived party

 

The NDP in Quebec will run candidates for office for the first time in over a decade, but both Fortin and Côté remained tight lipped about strategy, focusing for now on clinching the leadership.

An earlier provincial NDP separated from the federalist NDP in 1989, and changed its name to the Parti de la democratie socialiste (PDS). The PDS would later become a founding pillar of Québec solidaire.

Raphael Fortin

Raphael Fortin is running for the NDPQ leadership. (CBC)

Fortin spoke about building a base for the party — now the fifth party competing for seats in the National Assembly — but admitted that the road ahead would be a difficult one.

"I'm conscious that it's going to be hard for the next election," said Fortin. "Maybe in eight years, or 10 years, we can expect to be a big force in the province."

He says that the NDP in Quebec offers a new choice for people who are left-leaning but don't support the sovereignty movement.

 

"There's at least 35 per cent of the population who don't recognize themselves in any party," said Fortin. "It's a new option for those who feel lonely in the political square."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/provincial-ndp-looks-to-make-queb...

Pondering

progressive17 wrote:

The Journal de Montreal included the Conservative Party of Quebec in a recent poll I read. They were at something like 3-5%, but they were still included. Add the NDPQ and you now have 6 parties. I am afraid some party is going to be able to get a virtual dictatorship on around 30% of the vote. 

For the people of Quebec to be properly represented in the National Assembly, there has to be some form of proportional representation, or failing that at least runoff elections. The danger of doing nothing is that whichever party that wins in this scenario is going to be able to foist their agenda on the vast majority of the population which did not support them.

The more parties there are the less likely it is that one will win any kind of majority. It could force a minority government which more like PR.  I'm not against provincial PR but I don't think anyone is pushing for it in Quebec.

"There's at least 35 per cent of the population who don't recognize themselves in any party," said Fortin. "It's a new option for those who feel lonely in the political square."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/provincial-ndp-looks-to-make-queb...

We deserve representation and so far the NDPQ is the only party willing to offer it.

Pondering

http://rabble.ca/babble/qu%C3%A9bec/ndp-ex-mps-to-rock-couillards-world?...

Christian Bourque, vice president of Leger, told CBC that it won't be easy to corner a significant share of voters but that some areas might prove a more strategic place to start.

"The Southwest of Montreal is probably the best breeding ground for the NDP [in] Quebec, because of the linguistic composition of these ridings and because they have always been sort of left-of-centre ridings," he said.

Doesn't seem like an area that would threaten QS support. If by any chance the NDPQ did threaten QS support it would be because QS is not reflecting the will of the people.

NorthReport

When the Quebecois left realize that they have for the first time a federalist option on their provincial voting ballot the NPDQ may do better than people anticipate. If humans hope to survive on planet earth for an extended period we must eliminate borders rather than build new ones. 

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I live in the South-West district. It's traditionally a Liberal riding but went Orange when the NDP was led by Jack Layton but went red again when Thomas Mulcair took over. Provincially it's the same story here. Traditionally Liberal.

I think the NDPQ came late to the party,they will have no influence whatsoever. I predict that next year the PLQ will once agin win this riding.

The NDPQ should have been organized at least 3 years ago. That way,everyone would be familiar with the leadership and platform.

I read in another post that the Journal de Montreal included the Quebec Conservative Party but not the NDP. First of all,the Journal is a right wing rag that makes up stories and has a natural leaning toward Conservative parties. Pay them no mind.

It's going to take at least 10 years for the NDPQ to have any hope of competing to form a government.

I'm not getting any younger,10 years means very little to me.

If they would have organized a few years ago or better yet,when this province went full on Orange. For the life of me, I don't understand why they didn't. If that were the case they'd be contenders in 2018. Huge oppurtunity missed as now this province is poised to elect the staus quo or the most right wing party in generations.Long story short,Quebec is screwed for an indefinate period.

Good job,NDPQ.

lombardimax@hot...

Alan Smithee, I believe there is more hope now than despair. The Ndpq may be late to the party but it’s never too late to finally get started. And, I don’t think we are worse off than where QS was just before they won their first seat with Khadir. And if the last Alberta election has taught us anything is that the status quo can be blown up and social democrats can come from nowhere to win overnight. The 2011 Orange Wave was another example of that. While QS has been head and shoulders the best option on the ballot until now, their love affair with Option Nationale and die-hard sovereigntists will be their undoing. A more lukewarm approach to the national question, like CAQ has, would make Quebec Solidaire unstoppable, in my humble opinion. Even the Ndpq non-party did better than the ON candidate in the last byelection.

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
The Ndpq may be late to the party but it’s never too late to finally get started.

And don't we perenially mourn the lack of electoral choices?

People seem to want more electoral choices, but not ones that might split a vote, or beat a favourite.  Just ones that will win by a landslide and magically grant their wishes or something.

lagatta4

In my riding, I doubt very much that they could prevent Gabriel Nadeau-Dubois from getting elected, but if they did, it would mean the PQ getting back in. In "real life" Nadeau-Dubois, Boulerice, and the Projet Montréal team all work together and get along very well - constitutional issues aren't often discussed... day to day riding issues involve other challenges.

pietro_bcc

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/516329/le-nouveau-npd-quebec-s-...

I've made my choice for leader. I was leaning towards Raymond Coté before, but Fortin positioning himself once again as the centrist candidate kind of seals it. Got my information for how the vote will be conducted in the mail yesterday.

cco

In addition to the derogatory comments he made about QS (not about them being nationalist, but about them being too far left), Fortin said at the debate "Governments don't create jobs, only the private sector can do that." No word on whether he thinks corporations are people. I'm thoroughly unimpressed with Raph. No such objections to Raymond Côté thus far.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

pietro_bcc wrote:

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/516329/le-nouveau-npd-quebec-s-...

I've made my choice for leader. I was leaning towards Raymond Coté before, but Fortin positioning himself once again as the centrist candidate kind of seals it. Got my information for how the vote will be conducted in the mail yesterday.

If the NPD-Q positions itself as a "centrist" party, that means it will essentially be running on the PLQ platform.  In other words, it would be one MORE party of austerity, inequality, and appeasement of greed.  Why even bother?  Why would Quebec embrace "La Voie Troisième" just at the moment the rest of the world is abandoning it?

Pogo Pogo's picture

I thought that was his point - that he was voting against the centrist option.

pietro_bcc

Exactly, I'm supporting Coté because of his policies and generally being more ambitious when it comes to the 2018 election, Fortin would render the NPDQ kind of pointless (it would still be slightly to the left of the Liberals given some of his positions, but not enough to justify the party and would still leave federalists without a true left wing option.)

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

pietro_bcc wrote:

Exactly, I'm supporting Coté because of his policies and generally being more ambitious when it comes to the 2018 election, Fortin would render the NPDQ kind of pointless (it would still be slightly to the left of the Liberals given some of his positions, but not enough to justify the party and would still leave federalists without a true left wing option.)

Thanks for clarifying.  If I were in the NPD-Q, I'd prefer Cote. 

BTW, does anybody know if Fortin is related to André-Gilles Fortin, the federal Creditiste leader who died in a car crash in the Seventies?

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
In other words, it would be one MORE party of austerity, inequality, and appeasement of greed.  Why even bother?

Conversely, then why even worry?  What more could they do but split the Liberal vote?  And how is that a bad thing?

pietro_bcc

http://quebec.huffingtonpost.ca/2017/12/28/le-coeur-de-jagmeet-singh-bal...

I've noticed that the NPDQ has slowly gained more attention in the media during the leadership race, more than I've ever seen for parties like the Quebec Green Party for example. The first step for any party establishing itself is gaining public awareness so this is encouraging.

lagatta4

Not surprising, given that it is a rightwards attack dog against Québec solidaire. Ironically, so are the relooking of the PQ and the rightwing of ON that is trying to take over the discredited Parti indépendantiste.  Obviously the bourgeois press will spotlight attempts to undermine a genuinely left party that has achieved some credibility and electoral support. Like duh...

Mr. Magoo Mr. Magoo's picture

Quote:
Obviously the bourgeois press will spotlight attempts to undermine a genuinely left party that has achieved some credibility and electoral support.

But how does a right-wing party (or, maybe more realistically, a 'centrist' party) undermine a genuine left party?  If people leave that genuinely left party to vote for the centrist or right-winger, how genuinely left were they in the first place?

I get that in a system with a finite number of parties, having a "Marxist" party and a "Marxist-Leninist" party might split the far left vote, but doesn't it split it by offering those Marxists who also agree with Lenin a better choice than if "Marxist" was the only option?

In other words, even as we hope for -- or maybe even EXPECT -- a party to support everything we believe, how can it be a bad thing if a new party offers some new beliefs?

There was a time when I felt like Ralph Nader needlessly split the left vote in the U.S.  And part of me still doesn't love the sense I have that he did it as much out of ego as any hope of winning.  But I've also come to terms with the fact that if voters chose him over The Democrat, it's because he offered something more, and that shouldn't be unreasonable.

lagatta4

Oh, I don't contest their absolute right to do what they want (not only the far left or alternative left are sectarian splitters and wreckers) but am just pointing out why the establishment press would jump on the story.

I suppose that the Dems could be considered "left" against the most recent knuckle-dragging incarnations of the GOP, but they are certainly not a "left" or anti-establishment party, far from it.

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