NDP Ex-MPs to rock Couillard's world?

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Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

The Liberals could actually try BEING Liberal again...bring in some policies that are in the Quiet Revolution tradition.  It's not as though they have no choice other than being the party of the corporate center-right.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

Ken Burch wrote:

 It's not as though they have no choice other than being the party of the corporate center-right.

Perhaps you didn't get the memo. If PLQ are the party of the corporate centre-right,get ready for a new boss WORSE and hard right corporatist than the old boss. People can yell and scream all day but it's a race between the PLQ and CAQ. The PQ are already out of it and the QNDP is polling at about 1%.

I have a choice between these 2 parties. And I'll take the PLQ any day of the week,thank you very much. We don't need a Trump or Doug Ford in Québec. Non merci.

lagatta4

I don't understand. We (QS) are polling scarcely behind the PQ and very far ahead of the Qndp. Why on earth are you dismissing us?

I vote NDP federally, but that is not at all the same thing. There have been some very progressive Bloc MPs, but I don't see the Bloc polling well around here these days.

I hate the CAQ, but the Québec liberal party is also a cesspool of corruption and carcentrism. Find it hard to take criticism from Rivière des prairies, built as a carcentric monstrosity very recently, very seriously. 1950s urbanism at the turn of this century. Fuck cars, fuck pollution. Cars and personal trucks are needed in remote northern areas, not on our island or its periphery. They are fucking murder. There are few things I hate more, except wilful genocide or femicide.

The ligne rose is essential, as is the extention of the blue line. I'd add extending the green line to Pointe-aux-trembles.

As for extending the lines west, I certainly agree to that as well, but 30 years ago, suburbs such as CSL were opposed, with an antiquated equivalency between public transport users and violent thugs.

alan smithee alan smithee's picture

I don't care for cars either. They are pollution machines and everyone knew it for a few decades or so. Problem is,cars are not going anywhere.

I rememner when Mme Plante was elected and all the talking heads on TV and in paper ,on radio (CJAD) and online (But I must stress that these were Anglo Quebercers who are not very tolerant and live their lives in a huge hyperbole bubble) were running with their hair on fire that Plante 'would take their cars away. As I said,a hyperbole bubble. This was English media I don't know about French media but I'm sure  Le Journal took some pot shots at her and still do.

I don't drive and never owned a car. I used to get around all over the island by bike quite easily. And that was driving in the traffic (there were not many bike paths at the time. And helmets? what are they? I never heard of them)

Now I get around by public transit and I have few complaints with it. I live in Montreal traffic,even streets that are normally sparse have turned into highways because of all detours from all the construction going on. I now know the headaches commuting back and forth on the bridges,especially rush hour.

Considering traffic,construction and detours why would anyone want to drive through it? If people parked their cars before entering the dity and if Montrealers can put them in garages (let's face it,owning a car on the island is more trouble than it's worth.) and took public transit to get around the city congestion would pretty much disappear and it would save people money and it would be a plausible and easy way of traveling around the city.

But first you'd have to decrease the fares...very low. I'd say $1 or $1.25. But that isn't going to hasppen.

And I support the pink line. I think the blue line should extend not only east but west. Quite honestly I'd like all the lines excluding the yellow line to expand from the West Island to deep in Montreal East to Pointe aux Trembles.

The city should be pedestrian friendly. This is why making all of Ste Catherine a green space is a good idea regardless of drivers with their trucks,SUV's and showing off their vintage cars in the summer.

But I don't think most of this will happen especially when City Hall loses a relatively friendly relationship with the government. These plans will most certainly be quashed by Legault and his minions.

Great ideas that will be derailed until the City elects another green mayor in 20 or 30 years from now.

pietro_bcc

I don't care for cars either. They are pollution machines and everyone knew it for a few decades or so. Problem is,cars are not going anywhere.

I rememner when Mme Plante was elected and all the talking heads on TV and in paper ,on radio (CJAD) and online (But I must stress that these were Anglo Quebercers who are not very tolerant and live their lives in a huge hyperbole bubble) were running with their hair on fire that Plante 'would take their cars away. As I said,a hyperbole bubble. This was English media I don't know about French media but I'm sure  Le Journal took some pot shots at her and still do.

This was the case in basically all the right wing media, the so called "war on cars", the city is less friendly towards drivers than Coderre was, no doubt. But not to a huge extent, the only real changes as far as driving is concerned have been a handful of streets being shut down.

lagatta4

The Gazette is still harping about it. There have been some improvements in cycle paths, but more would mean reducing parking spaces. Yes, of course the JdM harps about everything.

Many people in Montréal-Nord work in the healthcare field, and with the ligne rose, their commute time would be halved.

lombardimax@hot...

Has the NDP-Q gotten any coverage in election campaign? Any predictions on how Raphaël Fortin will do in Verdun on Election Day?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

It looks as though NDP-ex-MPs won't be rocking ANYONE's world this year.  This is probably due to the election of the less-progressive candidate to the leadership.  There simply wasn't any room for ANOTHER "socially moderate, fiscally conservative" party in Quebec politics, as it turns out.

lombardimax@hot...

In referencing the original title of this topic, the new NDP-Q managed to field 4 ex-MPs in addition     to the party leader and a former New Brunswick NDP leader. There also is at least one sitting elected municipal politician running. So from an organizational perspective, I think it has been a modestly good effort. The results will show if there are any unexpectedly good showings in some of the ridings.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

lombardimax@hotmail.com wrote:

In referencing the original title of this topic, the new NDP-Q managed to field 4 ex-MPs in addition     to the party leader and a former New Brunswick NDP leader. There also is at least one sitting elected municipal politician running. So from an organizational perspective, I think it has been a modestly good effort. The results will show if there are any unexpectedly good showings in some of the ridings.

How many candidates are they fielding altogether?

Pondering

lombardimax@hotmail.com wrote:

In referencing the original title of this topic, the new NDP-Q managed to field 4 ex-MPs in addition     to the party leader and a former New Brunswick NDP leader. There also is at least one sitting elected municipal politician running. So from an organizational perspective, I think it has been a modestly good effort. The results will show if there are any unexpectedly good showings in some of the ridings.

Yes they formed way too late. The centre left missed what might be their sole chance for another decade or more to have become the alternative to the Liberals. 

swallow swallow's picture

lombardimax@hotmail.com wrote:

Has the NDP-Q gotten any coverage in election campaign? Any predictions on how Raphaël Fortin will do in Verdun on Election Day?

currently 325 votes and 6th place behind the Greens leader. QS second. 

pietro_bcc

I haven't been paying much attention to the party for the past few months because of some of their positions on secularism as well as just the perception that the party was in disarray.

Well aparently they had their congress yesterday and there was big turnover in leadership because of a number of scandals and more importantly the leader Raphael Fortin received only 54% in the confidence vote, so I assume a resignation is imminent.

https://www.lenpdq.org/mise_jour_du_president

I really hope they can right the ship because this could be a good option to have, if people who are progressive and competant are behind the wheel.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Fortin's electoral failure represents the proof that a Third Way approach for NDP-Q is not ever going to get traction.  

lombardimax@hot...

I don't know anything about the internal conflicts.

There has been plenty of bad news and negativity about the NDPQ's first election results in 2018. Just for balance, here is some good news.

The first NDPQ elections results brought the party to 7th place (behind Solidaire, Greens and Conservatives).

If you compare the NDPQ 2018 results to the comparable results of those three parties in their respective first elections, the NDPQ is actually ahead of them all -- they are actually ahead of where the PDS/UFP/QS was during its first election after splitting from the Quebec NDP in the 1990s.

Here is a summary of the better riding results...

lombardimax@hot...

lombardimax@hot...

Sorry, I am having trouble attaching a .png image.

Unionist

Hey lombardimax@hotmail.com - tech support here! Do what I do:

1. Go to imgur.com

2. Click on "New Post" (upper left of screen).

3. Upload your .png image.

4. Right-click on the image and hit "Copy image address".

5. Insert that url in the "Image" function of your babble menu.

Roundabout, but it works.

 

lombardimax@hot...

lombardimax@hot...

Thanks Unionist.

lagatta4

Not good news at all. Enough to undermine QS would be terrible news.

Unionist

lagatta4 wrote:

Not good news at all. Enough to undermine QS would be terrible news.

I give up. What are you referring to here?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Unionist wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

Not good news at all. Enough to undermine QS would be terrible news.

I give up. What are you referring to here?

The idea that the rise of NPD-Q could undermine QS.  And that's true.  It could only be a tragedy if, in any of the ridings QS currently holds the NPD-Q took enough votes to throw those ridings to the PLQ or BQ or CAQ.

lagatta4

Yes, that is exactly what I meant. Not all sectarians are on the far left.

Pondering

If the NDPQ rises in Quebec I think they would take more votes from the PQ rather than QS but QS needs to take note and ask themselves what they are doing wrong. Why CAQ, a younger party, is leading Quebec.

QS is getting airtime. It has an opportunity to speak directly to Quebecers. So far QS is not interested in reflecting the will of Quebecers. 

lombardimax@hot...

The view that NDPQ can only take support from QS is very narrow. In Ungava, it is arguable that NDPQ took votes from PQ and gave a close victory to the federalist CAQ. A similar thing could have happened in Jean-Lesage where s stronger federalist NDPQ campaign would have helped take support away from CAQ and given QS a more comfortable win. Voters are not all ideologues who shift neatly across the politic spectrum like Rabble posters do.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Pondering wrote:

If the NDPQ rises in Quebec I think they would take more votes from the PQ rather than QS but QS needs to take note and ask themselves what they are doing wrong. Why CAQ, a younger party, is leading Quebec.

QS is getting airtime. It has an opportunity to speak directly to Quebecers. So far QS is not interested in reflecting the will of Quebecers. 


CAQ has shit tons of corporate backing and a the involvement lot of long-time insider types from the right wings of both the PQ and PLQ.  It is also the inheritor of the Union Nacionale/Bourassa PLQ keep-extorting-the-federalists tradition.  And it's exceedingly unlikely that people who voted CAQ last time would ever vote for a party with any sort of progressive, humane, small-d democratic values.

There's nothing that CAQ does that QS could imitate or emulate without totally losing itself as a party.

Pondering

The second quote is not from me. You accidently left out Lombardimax. I'm not suggesting QS emulate CAQ policies. I'm suggesting they look to their primary goals and figure out how best to achieve them. 

82% of Quebecers do not want to discuss independence from Canada. I realize that many members and supporters of QS support independence. They need to think about what is most important to them, social justice or separation from Canada. Both is not an answer because as long as they are dedicated to separation they will not achieve enough power to advance social justice. 

Since the mid-nineties the PQ has only won elections by promising no referendums and while in office they haven't promoted independence directly. The CAQ won because they said straight out the party is not sovereignist. It doesn't matter that Legault is very much a sovereignist. He has promised not to seek it. 

QS is the last party in Quebec still promoting it. 

People have suggested that because most leftists in Quebec are sovereignist therefore QS has to support it. Most leftists may be sovereignist but that doesn't mean they wouldn't vote for a social justice party that admits it isn't what the people of Quebec want so puts that issue on the shelf. 

No Quebec party that I have lived under has been capable of reforming and running the Quebec government including reconcilliation with First Nations of Quebec. Do that first. Then talk to me about separation and you will have my support. 

 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

I'm all for reconciliation with the FN's of Quebec.  Pretty sure QS is, too-they have been more solidaristic with the Quebec FN groups than any other party which holds seats in the National Assembly.  

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

As to the second quote, I copied and pasted your post word for word.  There was nothing in your post indicating that you'd quoted lombardimax.  

It's time to stop obsessing about the referendum thing, or about demanding that QS renounce independence.  QS wasn't going to win the last election so the referendum issue was not something that was particularly pressing.  And the only way to get them to a no-referendum position-anytime-soon position would be for the idea to emerge, as I suspect it will, organically from within QS.  It's enough that they will look at the results and see that they don't have much growth potential from trying to out-Levesque the PQ.  They can't be made to do it from people, especially anglophone people, pushing them to do so from outside.  

lagatta4

A lot of us have been ACTIVELY involved in solidarity with Indigenous peoples and movements, including Oka and Idle no more, as well as anti-pipeline campaigns supported by Indigenous nations and local (non-Indigenous) communities in eastern Québec.

The members of QS are sovereign, whether sovereignists or not, and nobody from above tells them what to think about federalism vs independence. Our decision-making bodies are most democratic; we even get caricatured about it.

JKR

Ken Burch wrote:

Unionist wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

Not good news at all. Enough to undermine QS would be terrible news.

I give up. What are you referring to here?

The idea that the rise of NPD-Q could undermine QS.  And that's true.  It could only be a tragedy if, in any of the ridings QS currently holds the NPD-Q took enough votes to throw those ridings to the PLQ or BQ or CAQ.

Isn’t the vote-splitting problem of FPTP being eliminated  since Quebec is getting rid of FPTP?

Unionist

JKR wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Unionist wrote:

lagatta4 wrote:

Not good news at all. Enough to undermine QS would be terrible news.

I give up. What are you referring to here?

The idea that the rise of NPD-Q could undermine QS.  And that's true.  It could only be a tragedy if, in any of the ridings QS currently holds the NPD-Q took enough votes to throw those ridings to the PLQ or BQ or CAQ.

Isn’t the vote-splitting problem of FPTP being eliminated  since Quebec is getting rid of FPTP?

You're kidding, right?

JKR

https://globalnews.ca/news/5001665/quebec-no-referendum-electoral-reform/

Quote:
The Coalition Avenir Québec, the Parti Québécois and Québec Solidaire all agree with adopting mixed-member proportional representation, commonly referred to as MMP. It’s the same electoral system used in Germany and New Zealand.

...

LeBel said she will table a bill — “a bill that will have the largest consensus possible” — before Oct. 1, even though the Liberal Party is against this reform.

Unionist

LOL yes, I know JKR. I guess it's just my chronic cynicism showing. Parties that win via FPTP don't generally push too hard to implement any alternate method. I dearly hope that I'm wrong this time.

JKR

I hope so too.

Maybe the leaders of CAQ feel that FPTP won’t benefit them over the longer term?

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Unionist wrote:

LOL yes, I know JKR. I guess it's just my chronic cynicism showing. Parties that win via FPTP don't generally push too hard to implement any alternate method. I dearly hope that I'm wrong this time.

IIRC, the PQ promised to implement pr in their 1976 platform-a platform that led to the only progressive PQ government ever, Levesque's first term-but then they realized they'd won 64% of the seats on 41% of the popular vote.

JKR

I think it’s harder to defend FPTP in Quebec now that Quebec has clearly moved away from being a two-party polity.

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

If the NDPQ rises in Quebec I think they would take more votes from the PQ rather than QS but QS needs to take note and ask themselves what they are doing wrong. Why CAQ, a younger party, is leading Quebec.

QS is getting airtime. It has an opportunity to speak directly to Quebecers. So far QS is not interested in reflecting the will of Quebecers. 


CAQ has shit tons of corporate backing and a the involvement lot of long-time insider types from the right wings of both the PQ and PLQ.  It is also the inheritor of the Union Nacionale/Bourassa PLQ keep-extorting-the-federalists tradition.  And it's exceedingly unlikely that people who voted CAQ last time would ever vote for a party with any sort of progressive, humane, small-d democratic values.

There's nothing that CAQ does that QS could imitate or emulate without totally losing itself as a party.

The bolded part in this quote was not said by me.

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

Pondering wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

If the NDPQ rises in Quebec I think they would take more votes from the PQ rather than QS but QS needs to take note and ask themselves what they are doing wrong. Why CAQ, a younger party, is leading Quebec.

QS is getting airtime. It has an opportunity to speak directly to Quebecers. So far QS is not interested in reflecting the will of Quebecers. 


CAQ has shit tons of corporate backing and a the involvement lot of long-time insider types from the right wings of both the PQ and PLQ.  It is also the inheritor of the Union Nacionale/Bourassa PLQ keep-extorting-the-federalists tradition.  And it's exceedingly unlikely that people who voted CAQ last time would ever vote for a party with any sort of progressive, humane, small-d democratic values.

There's nothing that CAQ does that QS could imitate or emulate without totally losing itself as a party.

The bolded part in this quote was not said by me.

It was said by me, and I didn't claim that it was said by you.  That's just how the Babble quote feature seems to work.  Not really sure how to correct it and I don't think most people here think it was you saying it.

pietro_bcc

I actually believe the CAQ on this issue, there is no indication of them backing a way, in fact they're still saying that there won't be a referendum and that it will be passed this year. No change in their messaging yet.

Pondering

Ken Burch wrote:

It was said by me, and I didn't claim that it was said by you.  That's just how the Babble quote feature seems to work.  Not really sure how to correct it and I don't think most people here think it was you saying it.

Sorry then, misunderstanding. Babble does have the crappiest forum interface. Maybe not the crappiest but pretty bad.

JKR

pietro_bcc wrote:

I actually believe the CAQ on this issue, there is no indication of them backing a way, in fact they're still saying that there won't be a referendum and that it will be passed this year. No change in their messaging yet.

It will be interesting if it is the CAQ that brings PR to Canada.

lombardimax@hot...

I’m glad to see QS people joining the NDP at the federal level. Nina Machouf will be a great candidate in Laurier-Ste Marie. Maybe Amir Khadir will run in Outremont?

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