Discrimination against Muslims on Ontario campuses
Wed, 2007-03-21 16:42
#1
Discrimination against Muslims on Ontario campuses
Wed, 2007-03-21 16:42
#2
The Canadian Federation of Students' Task Force released today its [url=http://www.cfs-fcee.ca/html/english/media/mediapage.php?release_id=801]F... Report on the Needs of Muslim Students[/url].
quote:
“The goal was to develop a better understanding of the needs of Muslim students and to determine how well Ontario universities and colleges are addressing those needs,” said Jesse Greener, Ontario Chairperson of the Canadian Federation of Students. “It’s clear that every day Muslim students face both overt and subtle forms of Islamophobic discrimination on Ontario campuses.” [...]“A general ‘failure to accommodate’ was the most frequently identified problem by Muslim students in many facets of campus life,” said Ausma Malik, Task Force member and student at the University of Toronto. “From a lack of appropriate foods on campus and inadequate prayer space to inflexible academic policies that are often at odds with religious obligations, Ontario’s Muslim students often face a fundamentally different learning environment than other students.”
High tuition fees and the overwhelmingly loan-based student financial aid system are particularly problematic for Muslim students. “Interest-bearing loans are forbidden in Islam, which means that provincial and federal government loans are simply off-limits for many practicing Muslims,” said Mohamed Sheibani, Task Force member and the President of the Muslim Students’ Association National of the U.S. and Canada. “The Task Force is asking whether an inadequate system of need-based grants contravenes the spirit and intent of the Ontario Human Rights Code.”
The full report may be downloaded in PDF format [url=http://www.cfsontario.ca/mediareleaselinks/TaskForce-Final.Report-FINAL.....
[ 21 March 2007: Message edited by: unionist ]
Wed, 2007-03-21 19:01
#3
Maysie
Happy International Day for the Elimination of Racial Discrimination to you, too, unionist! [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img] I'm fairly sure the timing of the release of this report was on purpose for today.
I haven't read the whole report, but it sounds really good, and I hope there's some accountability measures that will effect some real change for Muslim students.
Wed, 2007-03-21 19:53
#4
Slight thread drift (sorry) but speaking of this important day today - the entire front page of the Ryersonian today was covered in two long articles about Canadian Nazis, on today of all days. These Nazis got a full airing of their views in two in-depth articles. Pretty gross lack of judgement on the part of the paper, I'd say. I'd link to it, but their web site hasn't been updated since April of 2006.
Wed, 2007-03-21 20:09
#5
quote:
Originally posted by Michelle:
[b]Slight thread drift (sorry) but speaking of this important day today - the entire front page of the Ryersonian today was covered in two long articles about Canadian Nazis, on today of all days. These Nazis got a full airing of their views in two in-depth articles. Pretty gross lack of judgement on the part of the paper, I'd say. I'd link to it, but their web site hasn't been updated since April of 2006.[/b]
Is [url=http://www.ryersonline.ca/articles/1575/1/Were-not-neo-Nazis-were-just-w... one of the articles?
Now back to the thread topic, which was... ummm...
Wed, 2007-03-21 20:19
#6
Oh, I guess I had the old site. My mistake.
Sorry about the drift, you're right. I didn't want to start a whole thread on it because I had nothing to link to, but I shouldn't have done it anyhow. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2007-03-21 23:40
#7
Well, puke a gallon! This is a thread drift I really didn't need to see. But just as a favour to anyone on this thread who may be a bit de-sensitized by cynicism or burn-out, here's something to snap you back to the real horror of this type of political shit.
This here below, for those of you who got a bit of an iron stomach, is an example I lifted off their blog site.
[b]These are just EXCERPTS of the full text there. Folks may remember I originally posted the whole script just to show even the slightest Doubting Thomas out there that all the things that are said about these hate groups is pretty much true.
But since I have been asked to cut it down, since it is very offensive (that's an under-statement) and the moderator here felt it's not appropriate for this forum, at least not it its full form. But just looking at these excerpts I think is more than enough to make even the most easy-going decent person realize just WTF we're all up against.[/b]
You know, if there ever are times when you get burned out and cynical and wonder if there’s anything really good or evil out there, just check out one of these sick sites to remind you of just how precious a sense of social justice, egalitarianism, democracy and mutual respect really is.
Warning: don’t read this if you just ate.
quote:
Dehumanizing the enemy
This is how these morons seriously frame their discussions.
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Maybe the lack of race-consciousness of white people is their racial weakness, whereas negros are loud, violent and prolific and relatively amoral and animalistic, as are the mexicans.
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"Dehumanizing the enemy" is important because it places them at a lower level. And at a lower level, they cannot win. So, why not use every effort and every tool for defeating them
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When discussing Jews as lying, deceiving, hypocrites and swindlers, this is merely observing their negative traits and bringing these traits to the front rather than hiding them at the back...Negros who are violent, boisterous, sex maniacs and Mexicans who are dirty, foul, tricky and malicious...for the sake of victory emphasize why we should consider them as subhuman dogs?
quote:
Why should they not be "Dehumanized"? We are at war with the rotten jews and all they stand for. Why should we abstain from using such tools? To give them a fair shake?If you see them as human, then you are less likely to maintain the feelings of animosiity necessary to persevere.
[ 22 March 2007: Message edited by: Steppenwolf Allende ]
Wed, 2007-03-21 23:52
#8
OK, now that my guts have settled and my teeth have stopped gnashing, I hope we can get back on topic by my saying skookums for this new effort.
I don't have any stats here, but I get impression there isn't a lot of readily available info on what Moslem students in general are facing in terms of post-secondary education (say in comparison to the info available on what many other religious and ethnic groups are facing).
For example, I found this kind of surprising:
quote:
“Interest-bearing loans are forbidden in Islam, which means that provincial and federal government loans are simply off-limits for many practicing Muslims,” said Mohamed Sheibani, Task Force member and the President of the Muslim Students’ Association National of the U.S. and Canada.
I'm not sure, off the top, how to help people in this situation.
Most of the Moslem colleagues and others I have known have mortgages, credit card debts, student loans, car payments, etc. Yet many of them are regular observers or practitioners of their faith.
And to put it into an economic/class perspective, it's interesting that this requirement of the Islamic faith doesn't seem to stop Islamic capitalists and regimes from getting neck deep into international banking and money lending.
Could this be one set of standards for the rich and another for the poor, much like in many of the Christian or Jewish religions?
Thu, 2007-03-22 04:39
#9
Maysie
Steppenwolf, for a whole host of reasons I firmly request that you immediately delete or drastically limit the quoting of vile racists on babble.
I also ask that links to vile racists sites not be posted in the [b]ANTI RACISM FORUM[/b]( or anywhere on babble, but that's just me).
In the future, please consider carefully what it means to quote unapologetic racists, even with all your warnings, in the [b]ANTI RACISM FORUM.[/b]
Thank you. I've chosen to deliver this message onthread rather than via PM so that everyone can know that this is not okay.
[ 22 March 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
Thu, 2007-03-22 04:53
#10
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenworlf Allede:And to put it into an economic/class perspective, it's interesting that this requirement of the Islamic faith doesn't seem to stop Islamic capitalists and regimes from getting neck deep into international banking and money lending.
Should the non-observance of these negate the tenet of a faith ? If George Bush flouts the rules of justice, should one say that the Christian faith does not call for justice ?
The one about interest is a concern and progressive people -as I claim to be- should support any initiative to get at least some of the capitalist parasites off peoples' back.
Assistance for the foundation of an Islamic bank or a permission for a foreign non-Interst (Islamic) bank would do the trick.
An Islamic bank usually invests in what is similar to ethical investments such as trade of goods and services. Examples of non ethical (or non-halaal) investments are investments in finances, arms, alcohol and porc trades, as well as investments in fields where there is child labour or where there is low (sub-standard) pay for workers. (The list is not ccomprehensive).
While we may not agree on all points, I think such banks should be encouraged by progressives.
In the meanwhile, as a Muslim, I do give any interest I receive to non-Muslim charities, since it is not permitted to give it to Muslim charities. Even some Muslim organizations give any interests they get to non-Muslim charities. Why we do not hear about this ? Because crowing about giving to charities is not permitted in the Islamic faith.
Edited for typos
[ 22 March 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]
Thu, 2007-03-22 07:32
#11
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
[b]Most of the Moslem colleagues and others I have known have mortgages, credit card debts, student loans, car payments, etc. Yet many of them are regular observers or practitioners of their faith.[/b]
It was my understaning that this only applied within the faith - i.e. Muslims are not supposed to charge interest to other Muslims, etc.
Or perhaps I'm confusing it with similar restrictions by the Catholic church centuries ago, which still allowed for Jews to loan money to Christians (and along with it all of the unfortunate history that has stemmed from that little rule).
EDIT: Why do you use the quasi-incorrect (and offensive) spelling of "Moslem"?
[url=http://hnn.us/articles/524.html]Why Do People Say Muslim Now Instead of Moslem?[/url]
quote:
When Baby Boomers were children it was Moslem. The American Heritage Dictionary (1992) noted, "Moslem is the form predominantly preferred in journalism and popular usage. Muslim is preferred by scholars and by English-speaking adherents of Islam." No more. Now, almost everybody uses Muslim.According to the Center for Nonproliferation Studies, "Moslem and Muslim are basically two different spellings for the same word." But the seemingly arbitrary choice of spellings is a sensitive subject for many followers of Islam. Whereas for most English speakers, the two words are synonymous in meaning, the Arabic roots of the two words are very different. A Muslim in Arabic means "one who gives himself to God," and is by definition, someone who adheres to Islam. By contrast, a Moslem in Arabic means "one who is evil and unjust" when the word is pronounced, as it is in English, [i]Mozlem[/i] with a z.
[ 22 March 2007: Message edited by: Free_Radical ]
Thu, 2007-03-22 08:08
#12
Free_Radical wrote:
quote:
It was my misunderstaning that this only applied within the faith - i.e. Muslims are not supposed to charge interest to other Muslims, etc.
They are not supposed to charge anyone or accept (receive) interest from anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim.
The practice in Muslim countries had always been that people of other faiths (Christians and Jews) do whatever they wish among themselves.
While Muslims are not supposed to trade in gold (like being jewellers), they can buy it for personal use, to wear it (only women are allowed to wear it). To sell a personal belonging (in gold) they must not make a profit.
[ 22 March 2007: Message edited by: bohajal ]
Thu, 2007-03-22 15:44
#13
quote:
Steppenwolf, for a whole host of reasons I firmly request that you immediately delete or drastically limit the quoting of vile racists on babble.
No problem, Big City Gal. I cut it down to just a few sickening quotes. Normally, I wouldn't waste a half-second paying attention to anything these types of sick, violent, paranoid bigots have to say.
I thought it might serve as some food for thought for people out there who may not appreciate just how vile, disrespectful and destructive racist thinking is, especially when it's expressed by such paranoid violent flakes like these.
When I read what was on their site, I got, shall we say, angry (started swearing at the computer, which prompted a response from my wife).
I haven't read anything quite like this since the KKK tried to move in to the neighbourhood we were living in at the time (around 1981) to supposedly "clean up the neighbourhood" by harassing and attacking people of literally every ethnicity, political philosophy and religion they didn't like.
Instantly, brochures got circulated containing slander and lies against not only the various ethnicities in the area (including mine), but against individuals--people's neighbours--as well.
The community got mobilized and united and forced them out a short time later. But they didn't go without a literal fight (several of them actually).
It just pisses me off to no end that these types of sick little paranoid violent cults are still operating out there looking for a place to flourish.
I have found that exposing and examining these cliques in public is one of the best ways to fight them, since they are in fact quite gutless and cowardly and tend to hide in shadows like the little cockroaches they are.
Thu, 2007-03-22 17:35
#14
Just been going over this, and I'm wondering if posting overtly racist material like that is necessary at times. Pretending it doesn't exist in such raw form may not be wise, and it should be fairly clear most cases whether the poster is supporting these ugly sentiments or using them as examples of their ugliness. Either that or by linking to them directly, which raises other ethical questions.
I've been slogging through miles of horrid racist filth online lately researching the ongoing theft of tribal lands, and some of the worst is on supposedly academic sites, yet I'm not sure if everyone would even recognise them as racist as it operates on various levels. Open instructions in hatred at least reminds the average middleclass shmoe that that kind of twisted thinking is still alive and well everywhere. Right now racism against Muslims in particular is rampant everywhere in the West, now that its gotten the official nod by the state run media, and the direct result of that goes beyond hurt feelings. It's directly resulted in two invasions and the deaths of hundreds of thousands of inncocent Muslims with the illegal arrest of thousands more. That I think should be faced.
Thu, 2007-03-22 17:58
#15
I've also been researching the resuurection of the slave trade in Africa. Most people have NO idea that the companies they buy their sugar and chocalate from are employing slaves again, not just underpaid sweatshop labour but slavery. This should be made public, as its mostly Our companies doing it and they bloody well know it but bloody well don't care. Not unless they face justice.
Thu, 2007-03-22 18:03
#16
Ok, now back to the real discussion.
quote:
Should the non-observance of these negate the tenet of a faith ? If George Bush flouts the rules of justice, should one say that the Christian faith does not call for justice ?
I don't think the issue here is about the tenet of any faith. After all, faith, and the various progressive ethics often associated with it are, although sometimes misguided, based on positive and cooperative human values.
For example, I have a lot of respect for [url=http://en.allexperts.com/e/i/is/islamic_socialism.htm] certain Islamic Socialist/Marxist [/url]and [url=http://www.workersliberty.org/node/5714]Islamic Labour unions and action/dissident groups[/url] throughout history and today; as I do for the Jewish [url=http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/kibbutz.ht... movement[/url]and various [url=http://www.jewishlabor.org/]Jewish labour[/url]and [url=http://www.jewsforajustpeace.com/]progressive peace [/url] groups; and, of course, the many [url=http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/REsocialism.htm]Christian socialist[/url]organizations, like [url=http://www.religioustolerance.org/quaker.htm]The Quakers[/url], or [url=http://history.alliancelibrarysystem.com/IllinoisAlive/files/wi/htm4/wi0... Icarians[/url] or the [url=http://www.catholicworker.org/dorothyday/daytext.cfm?TextID=361&SearchTe... Workers' Movement [/url]and the [url=http://www4.cord.edu/fns/portfolios/knrise/liberation_theology.htm]Liber... Theologists.[/url]
But the fact is history is chalk full of examples—big examples—where the three great Biblical religions—Christianity, Judaism and Islam—have served as crutches for all kinds of capitalistic and feudal brutality, conquest, oppression and mass murder. That can’t be ignored as well.
quote:
The one about interest is a concern and progressive people -as I claim to be- should support any initiative to get at least some of the capitalist parasites off peoples' back.
I agree. Actually, interest, even more than profit or bloated dividends, bonuses and pay-outs to elite dictatorial do-nothings, is quite exploitative and parasitic, since it amounts to paying someone for literally nothing—much like in any type of capitalistic dominated venture, paying someone simply for their ownership or position of power.
While I don’t think we can readily do away with interest, since it is so entrenched in our economies (any money economy is going to have this as a feature to one degree or another), we can push for it to be as low as possible, mainly to cover operating costs and provide for minimal savings.
quote:
An Islamic bank usually invests in what is similar to ethical investments such as trade of goods and services. Examples of non ethical (or non-halaal) investments are investments in finances, arms, alcohol and porc trades, as well as investments in fields where there is child labour or where there is low (sub-standard) pay for workers.
I support that concept and practice, in the form of socialistic ventures such as financial cooperatives, like [url=http://www.fin.gc.ca/toce/2000/ccu_e.html]credit unions[/url] and [url=http://home.flash.net/~sric/]socially responsible and labour investment funds[/url].
But with due respect, I don’t see where, as said before, the dominant capitalistic financial institutions and Islamic regimes operate this way at all.
quote:
EDIT: Why do you use the quasi-incorrect (and offensive) spelling of "Moslem"?
Because I wasn’t aware of the actual difference between the two spellings. Despite after reading the info you linked to, much of the media and public literature still spells it “Moslem.” I had no idea that spelling has a derogatory meaning, and no Muslim person I have worked with or befriended has ever pointed this out.
I certainly wouldn’t be referring to an entire religious community as being "one who is evil and unjust," and that has never been my intent. I definitely will be using the “Muslim” spelling from now on. Thanks for the info.
Thu, 2007-03-22 18:10
#17
Erik, I just finished reading Carol Off's book, [i]Bitter Chocolate,[/i] in which she details slavery around the international chocolate trade and how it had been enabled by the large confectionary manufacturers (big surprise there!) in the interest of the bottom line. If you're researching modern-day slavery, this book was just published last year and is definitely worth a look.
[/shameless thread drift]
quote:
...inflexible academic policies that are often at odds with religious obligations
What would be an example of an academic policy that is at odds with a religious obligation?
[ 22 March 2007: Message edited by: Sineed ]
Thu, 2007-03-22 18:32
#18
quote:
Originally posted by Sineed:
[b]Erik, I just finished reading Carol Off's book, [i]Bitter Chocolate,[/i] in which she details slavery around the international chocolate trade and how it had been enabled by the large confectionary manufacturers (big surprise there!) in the interest of the bottom line. If you're researching modern-day slavery, this book was just published last year and is definitely worth a look.
[/shameless thread drift]
[/b]
Thanks, I will. Something has to be done to root this evil out, competely outrageous it's still going on Anywhere. Just got onto it reading about the conversion of Borneos rain forest to oil palm plantations, knew it existed still but never knew how Common again. [/My apologies, thread drift over-carry on/]
Thu, 2007-03-22 19:16
#19
M. Spector
quote:
Originally posted by Sineed:
[b]What would be an example of an academic policy that is at odds with a religious obligation?[/b]
How about a rule that says no prayer breaks allowed during an examination?
Thu, 2007-03-22 19:49
#20
quote:
How about a rule that says no prayer breaks allowed during an examination? -M. Spector
[img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
You are just jealous because they have a God and you don't, M. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
Thu, 2007-03-22 20:44
#21
quote:
Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]How about a rule that says no prayer breaks allowed during an examination?[/b]
Teachers were always telling me during exam time that I didn't have a prayer.
Thu, 2007-03-22 21:51
#22
quote:
Teachers were always telling me during exam time that I didn't have a prayer.
They told me the same thing.
I remember that was the argument against banning praying in public schools. When people used to say there is no place for prayers in schools, many students would insist there was just before taking a test you hadn't studied for!
Fri, 2007-03-23 01:23
#23
Maysie
quote:
Originally posted by Steppenwolf Allende:
[b]
I remember that was the argument against banning praying in public schools. When people used to say there is no place for prayers in schools, many students would insist there was just before taking a test you hadn't studied for![/b]
All joking aside, prayer in schools as I understand it, was about [b]institutional[/b] prayer. "Everyone bow their heads for a reading of the Lord's Prayer". Who remembers that? Public school, that's where it happened.
Individuals who need to go and pray, for their own religious reasons, are a whole other story. They aren't forcing anyone else to pray, they certainly aren't asking the schools to make their prayer times mandatory for all. It's a no brainer as far as I can see.
From the article:
quote:
“It’s clear that every day Muslim students face both overt and subtle forms of Islamophobic discrimination on Ontario campuses.”
quote:
“From a lack of appropriate foods on campus and inadequate prayer space to inflexible academic policies that are often at odds with religious obligations, Ontario’s Muslim students often face a fundamentally different learning environment than other students.”
Fri, 2007-03-23 03:12
#24
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
[b]Just been going over this, and I'm wondering if posting overtly racist material like that is necessary at times. Pretending it doesn't exist in such raw form may not be wise, and it should be fairly clear most cases whether the poster is supporting these ugly sentiments or using them as examples of their ugliness. Either that or by linking to them directly, which raises other ethical questions. [/b]
I'm going to start a new thread on this so that this one is not taken off track. Since we haven't had a clear rule on this, I think it might be time to make one.
Whoops, looks like [url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=15&t=001096]bcg's way ahead of me[/url], as usual. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]
[ 23 March 2007: Message edited by: Michelle ]