Brainwashing 101: Start 'em young!

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N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture
Brainwashing 101: Start 'em young!

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

quote:


CBC: Any food packaged by McDonald's tastes better to most preschoolers, says a study that powerfully demonstrates how advertising can trick the taste buds of young children.

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2007/08/07/mcdonalds-advertising.html]M... the minds of children is profitable![/url]

quote:

"You see a McDonald's label and kids start salivating," said Diane Levin, a childhood development specialist ...

Study author Dr. Tom Robinson said the kids' perception of taste was "physically altered by the branding." The Stanford University researcher said it was remarkable how children so young were already so influenced by advertising.


That's capitalism for ya. Polluting the minds of children for wealth and profit. But at least they're not selling cigarettes to children.

jrose

quote:


But at least they're not selling cigarettes to children.

Well, both can be fatally harmful.

I'm going to move this to Youth Issues for discussion.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Yea, good point. I forgot about that film, [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Size_Me]Super Size Me.[/url] I guess it takes strong advertising, early in life when our brains are underdeveloped and we're more vulnerable, to get us to engage in such life-threatening activities as smoking and eating at fast food restaurants.

I haven't been to any of the big fast-food places myself in a very long time. My body tends to go into some kind of digestive shock as it tries to expel the alien intruder. It's not a pretty sight.

That's one of the benefits of not owning a car, I think. Less toxins in the environment and less toxins in me. Ha ha. Then again, I could be making a virtue out of necessity. A car is way too expensive a luxury for me to maintain right now.

jrose

[url=http://www.mcspotlight.org/issues/advertising/index.html]More information can be found here, though it seems like the Internet is flooded with all the information anyone could possibly want on both advertising to children, and McDonalds in particular.[/url]

Polly B Polly B's picture

Ugh. At our elementary school last year, McD's offered their "cheap lunch" to the kids. You could get a double beef burger, or a double cheese burger. WTF???? Kids in the under 11 age group don't need double anything, (like anybody needs double grease?) yet that was the only selection offered. That and fries, and a pop.

My kids took a lunch that day, along with my note to the new principal explaining to him exactly how disgusting that was.

[ 07 August 2007: Message edited by: Polly Brandybuck ]

jrose

I remember in middle school it was such a big deal to have our homeroom teachers take the whole class to McDonalds for lunch, or breakfast. It was a special lunch we'd all wait weeks for! I think maybe Mickey-Dees was paying off homeroom teachers in my home town to brand us early. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

[url=http://www.apa.org/monitor/jun04/protecting.html]APA: Protecting children from advertising[/url]

quote:

The advertising industry spends $12 billion per year on ads targeted to children, bombarding young audiences with persuasive messages through media such as television and the Internet. The average child is exposed to more than 40,000 TV commercials a year, according to studies. And ads are reaching children through new media technologies and even in schools--with corporate-sponsored educational materials and product placements in students' textbooks.

Here are some key points:

quote:

"Is it fair to allow advertising to an audience that is too young to recognize commercial messages are biased and have a persuasive intent?"

[b]Advertising effects[/b]

Certainly the messages' power of persuasion is compelling, the task force found. Studies cited in the report have shown that [b]after just one exposure to a commercial, children can recall the ad's content and have a desire for the product.[/b]

Some messages may influence children's behavior too, says Brian Wilcox, PhD, chair of the task force, which formed in 2000 to conduct an extensive literature review of advertising's effects on children. For example, [b]research has shown that child-directed ads for healthy foods can lose their effectiveness when children view ads for snack foods in the same sitting.[/b]

Indeed, [b]some researchers speculate that advertising geared to children[/b]--which largely consists of ads for sugary cereals, candy and fast-food restaurants--[b]may be contributing to the increase in childhood obesity by promoting unhealthy foods. Plus, studies suggest that eating habits formed during childhood can persist throughout life,[/b] according to the report.

[b]Also of concern is the "privatization" in children's media consumption,[/b] with a growing number of young children using the Internet and watching televisions in their bedrooms, where no one is present to explain what they are viewing or reading, according to the report.

[b]That lack of adult interpretation is a concern because young children tend to accept ads as fair, accurate, balanced and truthful,[/b] Kunkel says. "They don't see the exaggeration or the bias that underlies the claims," he says. "To young children, advertising is just as credible as Dan Rather reading the evening news is to an adult."

For children to critically process ads, they must be able to discriminate between commercial and noncommercial content and identify advertising's persuasive intent, the report notes.

[b]Particularly alarming to the task force is that commercials also often use psychological research to make their messages more powerful. For example, they draw from developmental psychology principles to build campaigns that persuade children they need a product and to nag their parents to buy it.[/b] In addition, advertisers often use characters and celebrities--such as from shows like "SpongeBob SquarePants" or "Blues Clues"--or premium gimmicks to reel in children.


What to do? Here's an example from Auz ...

[url=http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/bill/pcfjfab2006466/]Protecting Children from junk food advertising in Australia[/url]

It's not clear to me whether the Bill was passed or not.

[ 07 August 2007: Message edited by: N.Beltov ]

Agent 204 Agent 204's picture

Sometimes I think that if I had a young kid I'd bring it to McDonald's and, while it was washing its hands, surreptitiously spike the food with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denatonium]Bitrex[/url], so as to create an aversion for the stuff. But I'm not sure that would really be a good thing to do either.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Heh he. My own views may have been formed at an early age. My boyhood ski trips included a stop over at McDonald's in Nanaimo on the way to Green Mountain, Forbidden Plateau or even Whistler. In those days, that was the nearest McDonald's. However, the Nanaimo McDonald's had been charged with serving horse meat, on more than one ocassion I think, and that, shall we say, coloured my views of that esteemed restarant. Snerk.

Brian White

I think it is the same with religion. You get religion drilled into you when you are young and then all the evidence to the contrary in the world doesn't make a difference.

civicduty

Kids are taken to McD's and similar outlets by their PARENTS.

If you do not want your kids eating there then do not take them there.

Not hard. Take some responsibility for your own actions.

civicduty

quote:


I think it is the same with religion. You get religion drilled into you when you are young and then all the evidence to the contrary in the world doesn't make a difference.

This is the most insulting and offense remark I have ever read on this forum. This remark is a clearly statement of dislike for adherents of any religious belief, whether one is Christian or Muslim.

I am truly offended by such an invidiousness statement

Frustrated Mess Frustrated Mess's picture

quote:


I am truly offended by such an invidiousness statement

The Conrad Black School of Arrogance?

Anyway, the harm of a McDonalds is not just the quality of the food or the low wages or the contribution to the car culture. It also represents a disconnect between people, children in particular, and where food comes from and under what conditions.

The fast food and processed food industries (and fast food is processed food) drive the worst aspects of modern, intensive agriculture from factory farms, to the liberal use of antibiotics and pharmaceuticals, to the death of the small, family owned farm.

As well, it is what drives the demand for consistency of produce over quality, taste, and nutrition. And there is the presence of chemicals from flavouring to preservatives that have any number of unknown impacts on human development.

The difference between smoking and eating at a McDonalds is that almost everyone knows that smoking is harmful and you make a choice. I don't think most people give much of a thought as to the ingredients in McDonalds food or how it is processed or how it comes to them. How much sugar, for example, is in that special sauce?

People make no connection between the rise in fast and processed foods over the past generation and childhood disorders such as ADS, aggression, learning disabilities, and so on. The treatments to these issues are often found in the same labs that produced the food colourings, flavours, and preservatives.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

quote:


Brian White: I think it is the same with religion. You get religion drilled into you when you are young and then all the evidence to the contrary in the world doesn't make a difference.

You might want to elaborate a bit more on this. The way I see it, children are vulnerable to the McDonald's advertising because their mental and physical development is incomplete. They are more accepting of [i]anything[/i] that adults say to them. As I quoted above ...

quote:

For children to critically process ads, they must be able to discriminate between commercial and noncommercial content and identify advertising's persuasive intent, the report notes.

But the critical mental skills are exactly what is lacking with children. So they are sitting ducks. And whether it is McDonald's sugar and fat rich "foods" or religious propaganda really makes no difference. They're still sitting ducks.

Thing is, not all religious education for kids is the same. Religious education that revolves around developing ethical, social and moral skills could be very useful and helpful for kids. My own church teaches a sexuality course for kids called "Our Whole Lives" which is age-appropriate, is also offered to adults, and provides the youngsters with information to help them make intelligent decisions about their lives. But, of course, there are lots of horror stories about the spirit literally beaten out of children in the name of religion, or an antagonistic attitude towards higher learning inculcated, or a Xenophobic attitude imposed, etc.

However, non-religious education can be just as harmful to kids as the most harmful religious education if the aim and result is to teach unthinking obedience, thoughtlessness, etc. Children are "ideal" recruits for military brainwashing, for example, because of their mental underdevelopment. Military 'education" around the world, e.g., the U.S. military is a great example, makes use of deep psychological understanding to "break down" adults, much less children, and turn them into efficient killers who will do what is expected of them.

In an ideal world, children would not have views foisted onto them as "fact" when they don't have the mental equipment (yet) to evaluate the merit of something as important as religious views, for example. It seems like child abuse to me. But that ideal world is a long way off. Parents, or the guardians of children, and not society as a whole, for the time being, decide what sort of "education" kids get and children's rights are still an unrealized dream.

It is highly instructive to note that even in Canada, for example, adults are protected by law from assault on their person ... but children do not have the same kind of protection. Too many adults believe that hitting children is a good thing and they are (partially) protected by the law if they do so. Swedish law provides a glimpse of a more humane treatment of children and their rights. It might be useful to have a look at the status of religious education for children in Sweden and see how that might be different from Canada as well.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Targeting tots could build brand recognition later in life, study says

 

Quote:
Reporting in a forthcoming issue of the Journal of Consumer Psychology, researchers say exposure to brands at a younger age significantly increases familiarity later in life - often, with people more quickly recognizing defunct brands to which they were exposed as kids than existing brands introduced to them as adults.

And, therefore, "This can be done through advertising in children's programs or through product placement."

Quote:
The study is the latest entry in a growing body of research that, controversially, empowers marketers to court children, and even infants. For example, knowing that young people are 350 per cent more responsive to the five senses than adults, cartoon-emblazoned scented diapers were introduced to boost recall among so-called "crib consumers."

"Children are requesting brands as soon as they can speak," says Susan Linn, director of the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood. "I've talked to plenty of parents whose child's first word was Coke or Elmo or Nemo."

The average 10-year-old is thought to be familiar with approximately 400 brands. The average kindergarten student can recognize some 300 logos. And at just six weeks, a baby can form mental images of corporate logos and mascots.

 

That's capitalism for ya. Brainwashing the kids, brainwashing the parents, brainwashing, brainwashing.

 

 

remind remind's picture

Oh nbeltov, glad you found this, am going to make it sticky with the one I started about more general sitings of it

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Yes, I looked for that thread, couldn't find it, and, happily, found my old one instead.

remind remind's picture

it is like a little present when that happens eh?

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

The positive feeling is counterbalanced by the knowledge that many, even most, of the thousands of babble entries I've made are gone forever. But, yea, it IS like a little present.

RosaL

civicduty wrote:

This is the most insulting and offense remark I have ever read on this forum.

ha! You can't be serious Wink 

remind remind's picture

Ya, I know the feeling nbeltov, exactly, and sometimes yearn for the archives, but I have a very good memory, most usually, so not too much has been lost down the memory hole.

 

500_Apples

N.Beltov wrote:

Targeting tots could build brand recognition later in life, study says

Quote:
Reporting in a forthcoming issue of the Journal of Consumer Psychology, researchers say exposure to brands at a younger age significantly increases familiarity later in life - often, with people more quickly recognizing defunct brands to which they were exposed as kids than existing brands introduced to them as adults.

And, therefore, "This can be done through advertising in children's programs or through product placement."

Quote:
The study is the latest entry in a growing body of research that, controversially, empowers marketers to court children, and even infants. For example, knowing that young people are 350 per cent more responsive to the five senses than adults, cartoon-emblazoned scented diapers were introduced to boost recall among so-called "crib consumers."

"Children are requesting brands as soon as they can speak," says Susan Linn, director of the Campaign for a Commercial-Free Childhood. "I've talked to plenty of parents whose child's first word was Coke or Elmo or Nemo."

The average 10-year-old is thought to be familiar with approximately 400 brands. The average kindergarten student can recognize some 300 logos. And at just six weeks, a baby can form mental images of corporate logos and mascots.

That's capitalism for ya. Brainwashing the kids, brainwashing the parents, brainwashing, brainwashing.

We need to liquidate the corporate right to free speech.

Eventually with Cable and DVDs advertising may be reduced on television. HBO shows run for 51 rather than 42 minutes. Netflix, TiVo and DVR are laying siege on marketing.

Actually, I think I'd go with just liquidating the marketing sector.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Without the trillion dollar, or more, marketing and advertising sectors in North America, capitalism as we know it would collapse. The whole thing hinges, at least in part,  on the creation of demand as firms "compete" in the areas of market share - by advertising and marketing - and lowest payout to workers - by prolonged class warfare over the last few decades. There is no real competition in the area of price for many products whose sale is dominated by the monopoly-like or oligopolistic firms.

There are, of course, political consequences in turning the population into Matrix-like victims and consumers. And that is what "the left" and those who advocate an alternative are up against.

remind remind's picture

Excellent put, but I just think we need to be better marketers ourselves, in order to provide an alternative living style that people can SEE, in their mind's eye.

If what they can see, is doom and gloom, they will not even go there. So too, if it is to utopian.

The reality, when edited to basics is; we all live, eat, shit, and die, and we want to make that as humane and comfortable as possible for everyone, at any given point in time.

We see it can be everyone, others  believe that it can only be a few.

They have sold their vision better.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

I don't think the left makes full or proper use of all the efforts made by marketers and advertisers. Of course, what is useful and important for the left is going to be different from what is useful and important to those marketers and advertisers. In some sense, the propagandists for advertising and marketing know the working class better than many on the left who put that class at the centre of social life in a new society. I think the baby gets thrown out with the bath water here, as it were, the idea being, I suppose, that nothing useful can come from the study of such harmful activity.

In any case, brainwashing children has got nothing to do with what the left stands for; we stand for the protection of childhood, and the classroom,  from commercial propaganda. Capitalism, OTOH,  wishes to invade the classroom and turn it into a means of ever more profits ... the well being of children be damned. So we have a kind of ethical or spiritual denunciation against such practices.

However, I don't agree with your thumbnail summary. It is not simply a question of who sells better. Our spiritual and economic values, at least for socialists like myself, include a future with a vastly reduced marketing and advertising torrent of propaganda. Those efforts need to be turned towards more socially useful activity. Less brainwashing and more education is what we're about. So it is not simply who sells better, although there's an element of truth there. Capitalist advertising and marketing, on the whole, teachers social passivity and inertness. It takes the political energies of people and turns it into demoralization, nihilism, isolated individualism, and a generalized anger that can be easily directed at targets like women, visible minorities, immigrants, etc. Capitalism is the great Moloch, the great Satan, the great deceiver.

The ideal "consumer", from the capitalist point of view, is a drone who makes themselves available to the advertising torrent hurled at them - on television and in the media generally - and dutifully plays their role in keeping the "economy" going. Such drones never stop to consider what sort of economy they are helping to perpetuate. And so on.

We stand for citizens, not consumers.  We don't want to preach messages that lead to demoralized passivity. It is our aim to energize people, to MOVE them. When people move their consciousness changes. And so on.

So, it is not just a selling job, even of a vision. My two bits.

 

remind remind's picture

Pure semantics Nbeltov and nothing more.

 

You do not move other people, or engerize them,  without creating a vision for them to see the possibilities within.

hence mouseland.

A scoialist commercial if you will.

Your best teachers were those who could bring a subject alive by selling you the vision of it.

 

 

 

 

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

I'm sorry you feel that way. I agree with the necessity of having a vision by political leaders - or those who aspire to political leadership - but it is very difficult to bring people around to agreeing with "a vision" as opposed to getting people active on a particular issue that is near and dear to them. It really sounds like the making of obstacles rather than mobilizing people.

How did you (or I) come to have the vision you have now? Wasn't it a combination of involvement in particular issues, over time, some independent work on your part, and so on, that led you to where you are today? Did you form your views, all at once, by being convinced by a particular vision? Don't forget, we are talkng about masses of people who have been, as it were, innoculated against socialist ideas, demoralized and demobilized by the advertising and marketing blitzkreig, and so on.

autoworker autoworker's picture

J-E-L-L-O

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

What's that about?

remind remind's picture

N.Beltov wrote:
I'm sorry you feel that way.

I do not think we are talking about anything different. At all.

Though perhaps I have held my vision for much longer, as pretty much for sure the first time I saw gender inequality, I knew what I did not want my world to look like, and that was very young, and nothing much has changed since. As a woman who realizes women's rights need advancement, still. That is my primary, just as it always has been.

I do not think political need to have a vision  really, if the people who are the party have the vision good enough. Let thm drive the vision outward

Quote:
Don't forget, we are talkng about masses of people who have been, as it were, innoculated against socialist ideas, demoralized and demobilized by the advertising and marketing blitzkreig, and so on.

 

I never for one moment forget this, I watch too many of my sisters in life walk around, not realizing their co-option. I just see that lamenting about what has happened to them, is not good enough.

We need to create visualizations  so they can see the path out of their plight and get themselves on it. It is not selling them anything.

it is showing what indoctrination is.

 

That is what Michaels Moores movies are. Exposing indoctrinations. Not selling a way of life.

autoworker autoworker's picture

N.Beltov wrote:

What's that about?

autoworker autoworker's picture

autoworker wrote:
N.Beltov wrote:

What's that about?


autoworker autoworker's picture

Jello is Jello is Jello... it doesn't matter which flavour, it wouldn't taste the same by any other name. J-E-L-L-O, Jello!

saganisking

um I believe the word you're looking for is advertising not brainwashing

I tend to agree the we live in an age where the dominant religion is consumerism but many here don't even realize how insulting it is to say that people who buy junk food for themselves or their children are brainwashed into it, while us smart people who don't eat mcdonalds have have resisted this evil propaganda.

There are many reasons that people eat junk food and these should be examined but brainwashing is not one of them.  Parents or teachers who convince their children that science can't be trusted are brainwashing.

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

Advertising to children who are ill-equiped to distinguish true from false claims, whose intellectual, social and emotional development is far from complete IS brainwashing.It's precisely the right term to describe the harmful effect, and intent, of advertisers. How else would you describe cigarette advertising and Joe Kool and candy-flavoured cigarettes aimed at kids? Give your head a frakking shake.

I will give you that there are many factors why, e.g., people eat junk food - I know, for example, that pop and sugar water drinks are cheaper than either milk or juice in poor Northern Manitoba FN communities - but that just shows that advertising and marketing have a context.

saganisking

N Beltov

I'm not sure where you live but I've seen very few if any small children smoking or standing in line to buy themselves fastfood

martin dufresne

EDUPAX, an educational NGO that started by taking on war toys and is now targeting media messaging in general, including the hypersexualization of kids into stereotyped roles, is organizing a conference on November 5 and 6 in Gatineau about media overdosing and child health. If you are in or near the NCR and understand French, this is a great opportunity for teachers and parents to make some links and contacts against this brainwashing flood.

« Les émissions, les films et les jeux vidéo violents m'ont toujours préoccupé pour leurs répercussions sur le comportement des jeunes. Ce colloque voit le jour parce que, maintenant, des gens ont accumulé des connaissances sur l'impact qu'a la consommation médiatique sur l'obésité des jeunes, ainsi que sur d'autres aspects de leur vie », annonce Jacques Brodeur, responsable du comité organisateur du colloque Edupax et conseiller en prévention de la violence et en éducation pour cet organisme à but non lucratif en prévention.

Il fait remarquer que les publicités s'adressant aux enfants ne cessent de croître, sans que ceux-ci ne soient vraiment sensibilisés à leurs méfaits. Il estime que la surconsommation médiatique a de fâcheux effets sur eux. « Elle affecte leur santé, leur propre estime, leur qualité de vie. Elle les expose à la sexualisation précoce, aux médicaments, aux produits amaigrissants, à la violence, à la criminalité, ainsi qu'au décrochage scolaire, etc. »

 

N.Beltov N.Beltov's picture

That's rather inane. Do you have kids? If you did, then you would know about the effect of TV advertising on your own kids. Any parent knows all about this.

I will see your anecdotal evidence and raise you a carton of Sportmen's. That's the brand I smoked, at age 11, when I started smoking ... along with many of my friends and classmates. Have a nice day.

Fidel

saganisking wrote:

N Beltov

I'm not sure where you live but I've seen very few if any small children smoking or standing in line to buy themselves fastfood

Sometimes people don't have time to cook nutritious meals from scratch when both parents are working to make ends meet. Sometimes they don't even have time to make the kids lunch or are just too exhausted and shove a few bucks at the kids and tell them to eat at the cafeteria, and-or wherever. TV and fast food started out in the 1950's as frozen TV dinners and then escalated from there. Broadcast TV  and radio and food became an overnight sensation as far as propagandizing the public was concerned. Joe Goebbels himself never realized the propaganda potential for TV combined with radio and newsprint that today's capitalists have taken advantage of. Marketing propaganda used to be an art form. Now they have it down to a science.

Tigana Tigana's picture

Fidel wrote:

TV and fast food started out in the 1950's as frozen TV dinners and then escalated from there. Broadcast TV  and radio and food became an overnight sensation as far as propagandizing the public was concerned. Joe Goebbels himself never realized the propaganda potential for TV combined with radio and newsprint that today's capitalists have taken advantage of. Marketing propaganda used to be an art form. Now they have it down to a science.

Fidel, when I saw your post I thought of this article on Bernays, the man who began perfecting the pitch. 

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html

Fidel

Tigana wrote:

Fidel, when I saw your post I thought of this article on Bernays, the man who began perfecting the pitch. 

http://www.prwatch.org/prwissues/1999Q2/bernays.html

 

Bernays liked to cultivate an image as a supporter of feminism and other liberating ideas, but his work on behalf of the United Fruit Company had consequences just as evil and terrifying as if he'd worked directly for the Nazis. The Father of Spin sheds new and important light on the extent to which the Bernays' propaganda campaign for the United Fruit Company (today's United Brands) led directly to the CIA's overthrow of the elected government of Guatemala.

The term "banana republic" actually originated in reference to United Fruit's domination of corrupt governments in Guatemala and other Central American countries. The company brutally exploited virtual slave labor in order to produce cheap bananas for the lucrative U.S. market. When a mildly reformist Guatemala government attempted to reign in the company's power, Bernays whipped up media and political sentiment against it in the commie-crazed 1950s

 

Well that says it all right there. I'd never heard of Bernays before or that he influenced Goebbels. Fascinating. And US neocolonialists had an army of darkness working for them in the Pentagon, CIA, and sometimes CIA heads with connections to Wall Street etc. Howard Hunt was one of their tools in those days and responsible for planning the overthrow of governments in small Central American countries for the Fruit Company's and for the benefit of other fruit and trading companies benefit paying Latino workers next to nothing.

remind remind's picture

OMG, Sportmen's cigarettes, had forgotten all about them.

 

What a targeted hook name eh?

 

Ah... the elite they love their propaganda to keep the masses in check, here and elsewhere it seems,  cannot imagine anyone here denying  media and it's attendant structures, manipulation of the message and optics, but yet I just saw it. @#36

 

Quote:
Bernays liked to cultivate an image as a supporter of feminism and other liberating ideas,

 

Nothin new under the sun, eh?

 

 

 

 

 

Fidel

And I thought Howard Hunt was evol incarnate. This Bernays guy was real piece of work.

Tigana Tigana's picture

Another "path out of the plight"? 

McDonald’s Closes in Iceland After Krona Collapse

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=amu4.WTVaqjI

saganisking

I also occasionally stop for dinner at A&W for a greasy burger and fries or get KFC(very unhealthy) for the family but it is because of feeling like I don't have the time to go to the grocery store and by fresh food and prepare a nice meal that I do this.  Not having a car to drive to a store and load up with groceries, or a deep freeze to store enough food for a couple weeks is also a reason.  

I'm not going to change anyone's mind here, but my parents for example never kept soda pop in our fridge at home. never. Nor did they order out or pick up fastfood more than a few times a year neither did they buy us chocolate bars everyday as a treat for themselves or their children. 

My point is now that we've grown up none of us keep pop in our house or regularly order fast food very often despite seeing thousands of hours of commercials as kids for these products.  Nor do any of us smoke.  I feel that the parent's example has far more of an influence than advertising.

Brian White

It is the same as religion or terrorism.  Terrorist familys in northern Ireland used to bring up the kids and have them marching as good catholics or prods as soon as the kids could walk.  And the kids would know all the songs and sing every word too.   So if the religous fanatic, or sectarian fanatic  or advertizer can get in there first before the kids circuts are hard wired for rational thought, they have won. I do not think kids should get any religous instruction before they are at least 7.  If the kids mind is gotten to before 7, the poor kid is mentally fucked on that issue. Cannot think rationally.

Try your religous indoctrination on older people, please.

Sorry if I offended anyone.  And if God exists, I am pretty sure it has self doubt, and the same worries about its Maker as we have.   If there is just one God, you gotta really worry about the lonleyness issues too. Lonleyness screws creatures up.

Did anyone ever smoke on startreck? Brian

civicduty wrote:

quote:


I think it is the same with religion. You get religion drilled into you when you are young and then all the evidence to the contrary in the world doesn't make a difference.


This is the most insulting and offense remark I have ever read on this forum. This remark is a clearly statement of dislike for adherents of any religious belief, whether one is Christian or Muslim.

I am truly offended by such an invidiousness statement

Fidel

[url=http://gothamist.com/2009/09/25/mcmoms_do_mcdonalds_bidding_to_brai.php]"McMoms" Do McDonald's Bidding to Brainwash Other Moms[/url]

[url=http://www.mothersfortruth.com/Food%20Brain%20Washing.html]Fast food giants prey on parents' gullibility to sell unhealthy food to children[/url] '06

Quote:
Many experts name Ray Kroc, founder of the McDonald's franchise, and Walt Disney as the pioneers of child-focused marketing, since they first recognized children as a separate marketing demographic from adults in the 1960s. For Kroc and Disney, the decision was a pragmatic business move. "A child who loves our TV commercials and brings her grandparents to a McDonald's gives us two more customers," Kroc once said.

Who would deny their kid ice cream, toys, and cartoons? Kids have been the targets of multi-billion dollar corporate brainwashing propaganda for decades. It's a large reason why kids in North America are so unhealthy today. They've been producing fat kids for a long time like people are so many profitable widgets. And we can throw those people on the capitalist scrap heaps of time once junk food capitalists and big pharma are finished with them.

remind remind's picture

You know how things change in 20-25 years.

way back then my daugter was not alowed to watch tv, nor eat crappy foods, no sugars, yadda yadda....and I was literally accused of child abuse by some. They could not fathom how i could be so "mean" to her.

today, parents are told they are abusing their kids if they let them...

 

my daughter tells her friends the way she was raised, and they envy her, because they  are all having heart disease and other health problems by 30... 2 of her friends have actually had heart attacks because of poor diet throughout life.

 

Imagine heart bypasses at 30

 

and funny, I have now lived long enough to be "smart mom", instead of the "why can't you be a normal mom" and "you are so mean to me, mom".

 

saganisking

remind

so is it that you and you're daughter are smarter than the rest of those easily brainwashed folks or just less gullible(as per Fidel recent post)

I hate mcDonald food but what are they supposed to do - not try to market their product ? honestly - they should just tell people don't eat here?

Fidel

So is it the fast food industry's unwritten right of capitalism that they use their multibillion dollar advertising to win hearts and stomachs of the millions they exploit in this way? Surely ordinary people like us, and the pipsqueek warnings from Health Canada are just as effective at informing people of the long term health risks of eating poorly as big business is successful at brainwashing people from an early age? The truth is that there is an unwritten rule of capitalism. And it says that taxpayers' money should neither compete with private enterprise nor be used to curb private enterprise's ability to profiteer.

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