Oppose Bill C484

The more I examine women's issues and politics, globally, the more I'm convinced that when push comes to shove, all types of political parties will throw women and reproductive freedom to the sharks if it means solidifying their power.

They all seem to use "religion" as a hook for the knee jerk paternalistic/moral voter.

Most women aren't paying attention to the precarious position that even Canadian women could be in at a blink.
talk to women from Serbia/Bosnia, or Russia, or Iran---women who felt as free and accomplished as many of us do. They never thought that this could happen to them.
If things fall apart to any degree, I don't see women secure in their rights to abortion, birth control or education any more than any other country in the world---women are often the first to be sold down the river when things go awry.

We must work on a much more wholistic gender lens shift so that every aspect of our society is automatically viewed in a complete, balanced way.
Once the male is not the standard and female is no longer "the other", we may have a better chance when changes come---and they always do.

In my opinion, eliminating all religious public influence and not giving religion such an enormous ethical pass, will go far in gender balance. The histories of all world religion is frightening, their behaviours are still appalling and women have always been the victims.

How can we not continue to have fundamental gender inequality in our society, when all major world religions model and teach inequality?

Abortion rights and the continual flogging of this issue by the religious, is just a symptom of something much more treacherous for Canadian women.

They might have a pollster working on it right now.

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Originally posted by remind:
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You know what, just because I posted my thoughts regarding the NDP's silence, does not mean 2 men get to jump into this forum and thread to play politics and banter back and forth off topic.
[/b]

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I apologize, remind, but what's more important IMO is that we're supportive. This is a vital issue for all Canadians.

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Originally posted by remind:
[b]I would ask what you see as being vital to all Canadians?[/b]

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Preserving and expanding the victories over women's right to control their own bodies.

I think, though, that it is essential to know and to influence what the various parties and individual MPs are planning to do on this issue. That's why I posted Nicole Demers views (do you have any comment on what she said?) and asked if anyone had seen any comment from the NDP.

We can't afford another disgraceful fiasco like the Bill C-2 one. Inch by inch this government is blackmailing the opposition parties into taking dangerous stands, or in remaining silent on important issues (like Afghanistan, the environment, soon capital punishment - and women's right to choose is also under attack). We need to unite as many people as possible in defence of past gains and to expand access.

[ 16 February 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

I don't think anyone was out of line here. This IS a political issue. It's about a Bill. It's important where the NDP stands on this, as they're probably the only party with any principle in the House.

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... les dйlais ont йtй allongйs de dix а douze semaines ...

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Quels dйlais?

Does this mean abortion is lawful only in the first trimester? I don't understand this I guess.

[ 16 February 2008: Message edited by: unionist ]

Please let Irene Mathyssen, your NDP candidate and Jack Layton know your concerns about C-484 and the non-existent position of the NDP so far. To reach the party itself: [url=http://http://]http://www.ndp.ca/contact[/url]
My own letter:

[b]Re: C-484
Will you denounce the risks it entails for women's rights, as pointed out repeatedly by the Abortion Rights Coalition of Canada?
The NDP's silence on this issue is very troubling to me, as attempts to push back women's right to choose are becoming more threatening in the US, in France and now in Canada.
I realize that Mr. Epp's bill claims to exclude abortion and pregnant women from the remit of the proposed legislation, but the implementation of such laws had strongly impacted pregnant women in the U.S., so C-484 should be analyzed in that light and should meet with principled collective opposition from your party instead of being used to split NDP ranks.
In solidarity,
Martin Dufresne[/b]

[ 16 February 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

I really don't think that this will end up being a partisan issue---people of all stripes are odd and fearful around reproductive freedoms---it is, after all the only way to keep women submissive, fearful, cooperative, etc. Rape and violence are somewhat effective, but forced reproduction is the ace.

I recently wrote a piece for the paper, taking the anti choice bunch to task for their absurd demonstration at our MP's office, protesting the 20yr anniversary of the decriminalization of abortion. I discussed religion (present and historical) as being the key tool used in misogyny.
One of the most vituperative letters written in response to me was from the President of the NDP Riding Association---A WOMAN --- who took me to task for being [b]unreasonable and unwilling to have a "balanced" debate over choice.[b] ---as bad as the fringe antichoice fanatics!!!(and no, as one reader pointed out,I've never bombed or shot anyone who disagreed with me)
This woman professes to be a feminist and attempted to paint me as an uneducated fanatic, using terribly bad taste to publically name the social elephant of religion as a huge problem for women everywhere. Oh yes, she also said that she was an athiest!
It was bizarre and she did the NDP no favours here for sure.
The NDP women here are furious at me because I proposed that all left of right women work together to get a liberal woman elected in this conservative riding---which would be an enormous challenge---

I'm very non partisan and very left---I just want Harper gone and I don't care who did what or who is more righteous---I just want the tories buried.
They are dangerous.
We can all come to terms on things after they are out.
I was so sorrowful that the NDP women would attack my assertions and warnings to all women to get involved or we may be forced back before we can resist effectively.

this is the rough copy of what I wrote and they freaked out over:

The 20th anniversary of the decriminalization of abortion came in Stratford with word of the predictable death threats against Dr Morgantaler and a disturbing antichoice religious protest at the local MP’s office.

Women in Canada owe a tremendous debt to Dr Morgentaler, Supreme Justice Brian Dickson , Justice Bertha Wilson, social activist Judy Rebick and all of the feminists who sacrificed so much to free women from the tyranny of forced reproduction.

But we best be vigilant---it's not enough that some of us have done just fine for ourselves. All women owe a debt to those feminists. They made our success possible. We are now the ones collectively responsible for the future freedom of the next generations of women.

No woman can step into her place of power unless she has complete reproductive choice and freedom from male violence. Sadly, religious misogyny continues to deny women reproductive choice while encouraging male violence against them. This history of religious misogyny is clearly reflected in the vulnerability and suffering of women worldwide. We need to pay close attention to it. This history is our context, not just some abstract “Past”.

It's important to note that the anti-choice bunch are also usually anti birth control. These people have chosen religions that wage war against women and it's been a holocaust. Their much vaunted religious morals are belied by the millions of women and girls whose lives have been destroyed by religion. Religion was designed by men, for men and women need to examine it carefully through a female lens. When it comes to women,religious dogma always trumps reason and compassion.

Recent studies explain the resurgence of anthropomorphized religious practice and perversly blind right wing politics. The two are inextricably linked. When people feel isolated , if they succumb to the cult of fear (that both right wing religion and right wing politics promote), they may attempt to find a father figure as ”strong leader” in politics and/or a god-as-father figure in spiritual practice.
This makes them easy to manipulate and targeting women, especially women who have sex, is great team building.

When people choose a collective ideology over thinking, even very nice people behave unreasonably and are, by no means, harmless. Remember the Nazis.

Those of us who understand how dangerous religion and right wing politics are for women, also understand the tenuousness of our new freedoms. A great deal of religious money is used marketing the fervour against reproductive choice. Forced reproduction has always been the only way to keep women powerless. . Our choice to give birth when or if we decide to, is our key to equality.

Canadian women must stay better informed and get politically active if we don’t want to find ourselves in dark ages, yet again.

That's what I wrote.Doesn't it seem like something that most NDP women should be able to support??

[ 16 February 2008: Message edited by: morningstar ]

[url=http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Mode=1&Parl=39... McDonnough weighs in:[/url]

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Let me say, however, that there are a lot of things women desperately need that have been ignored by the government. Not one of them that has ever come to my attention is a call for this kind of bill. Women certainly need a lot more protection against domestic violence and violence that is visited on them in far too many communities.

I would say that at the heart of my concern about the bill is that it does indeed arouse considerable concern, real apprehension, about whether it is in fact a thinly veiled step in the direction of recriminalizing abortion in our country. I am sure there are going to be protestations, with people saying, no, no, that was made clear, the language was made clear and all the rest of it, but let me say that it further made me uncomfortable to hear several references, both from the Conservative sponsor of the bill and from the Liberal who spoke in support of it, to a number of American states, mostly southern U.S. states, and in particular, South Carolina, as one of the states that has had considerable experience with this bill.

Let me say the evidence is very clear that the bill not only could become a thin edge of the wedge in the direction of recriminalizing abortion, but actually identified as one of the benefits of the bill is that to adopt such a bill could in fact accomplish that very objective that sponsors of the bill in South Carolina have cited as the reason for their introduction of the bill.

There are many more things I could say, but I think that in the final analysis the point is that women need to be protected far more effectively and aggressively against violence, and that is the best way to protect vulnerable fetuses. If that were the objective, then we would be very much wanting to support such a bill.

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Here's my letter:

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Dear Mario,

I appreciate your decent voting record on most issues that are important to me. I am hoping to receive a positive response from you on this one as well. I'm writing about Bill C484, the Unborn Victims of Crime Act. While this Act in itself does not criminalize abortion, I am concerned that, by granting personhood to fetuses, it will lead the way to such a move in the future. Just the wording itself - "unborn victim" - this is pro-life/anti-choice rhetoric. This is how they refer to aborted fetuses and blastocysts as well.

Women have fought long and hard for their right to choose abortion for any reason. This legislation is a huge step backwards.

I have no problem with recognizing the particular harm with interfering, through violence, with a woman's right to choose to carry a pregnancy to term. I am a mother, and felt myself bonding with my belly and what would eventually be my son right from the moment I knew I was pregnant, three weeks along. I would have been devastated had I miscarried due to natural causes or, worse, through violence.

But the fact is, that violence happens to the WOMAN, not to the fetus. The fetus is part of the woman's body. If someone wants to introduce legislation with heavier penalties for assaults that cause the termination of pregnancy, I am fine with that. If there was real concern about the woman, as opposed to trying to criminalize abortion through the back door, the Bill would simply address the fact that women who miscarry due to violence have been the victims of two wrongs: the fact that she was assaulted, and the fact that she was involuntarily deprived of her choice to carry a pregnancy to term, thus greatly increasing HER emotional distress and recovery from the assault. The Bill would recognize the real victim - the woman - not the fetus.

It is clear that the pro-life Conservatives, in crafting this bill, are giving "the unborn victim" legal personhood status in order to pave the way to recriminalizing abortion.

Please do not allow that to happen. Please vote no to this Bill, and please try to convince your colleagues to do the same.

Sincerely, etc.

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Absolutely! Please, everyone, crib to your heart's content! That's why I posted it. [img]smile.gif" border="0[/img]

I do have to change 3 weeks to 8 weeks, but from the moment the doctor said 'you're pregnant' and I stopped crying (I was 18), I was fiercely protective of him.

Now he's 21 and I have to listen to him all day rant as it's Daytona 500 weekend...now if I'd known I'd give birth to a NASCAR fan........ [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]