Palin VII

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What Palin so seductively represents...is a form of feminine power that is utterly digestible to those who have no intellectual or political use for actual women. It's like some dystopian future ... feminism without any feminists.

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In this strange new pro-woman tableau, feminism -- a word that is being used all over the country with regard to Palin's potential power -- means voting for someone who would limit reproductive control, access to healthcare and funding for places like Covenant House Alaska, an organization that helps unwed teen mothers. It means cheering someone who allowed women to be charged for their rape kits while she was mayor of Wasilla, who supports the teaching of creationism alongside evolution, who has inquired locally about the possibility of using her position to ban children's books from the public library, who does not support the teaching of sex education.

In this "Handmaid's Tale"-inflected universe, in which femininity is worshipped but females will be denied rights, CNBC pundit Donny Deutsch tells us that we're witnessing "a new creation ... of the feminist ideal," the feminism being so ideal because instead of being voiced by hairy old bats with unattractive ideas about intellect and economy and politics and power, it's now embodied by a woman who, according to Deutsch, does what Hillary Clinton did not: "put a skirt on." "I want her watching my kids," says Deutsch. "I want her laying next to me in bed."

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[url=http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/09/11/zombie_feminism/index.html]R... Traister on Palin[/url]

In many ways, Traister’s words could apply equally to Obama: “What Obama so seductively represents…is a form of black power that is utterly digestible to those who have no intellectual or political use for actual black people. It's like some dystopian future ... black power without any blacks.”

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Originally posted by just one of the concerned:
[b]That's true. Who's defending obama?[/b]

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Rebecca Traister, for one.

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Originally posted by Sven:
[b][url=http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122143727571134335.html?mod=opinion_main..."Why Feminists Hate Sarah Palin"[/url] by Cathy Young.

I think that title is a bit too absolute. It would be more accurate to say, "Why [i]Many[/i] Feminists Hate [i]the Idea[/i] of Sarah Palin".[/b]

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Sven,

Do you actually read the WSJ or do you find the links from other online communities where you hang out?

I tried reading it and I found it way too propagandish, like a printed Free Republic newsletter. I tried reading the article you linked to but by the end of the first paragraph I was like, too predictable.

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Originally posted by Sven:
[b]

It was "too predictable" because you've read similar columns by Cathy Young?[/b]

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It's standard oversimplified populist right-wing spin.

It starts with:

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Left-wing feminists have a hard time dealing with strong, successful conservative women in politics such as Margaret Thatcher. Sarah Palin seems to have truly unhinged more than a few, eliciting a stream of vicious, often misogynist invective.

On Salon.com last week, Cintra Wilson branded her a "Christian Stepford Wife" and a "Republican blow-up doll." Wendy Doniger, religion professor at the University of Chicago Divinity School, added on the Washington Post blog, "Her greatest hypocrisy is in her pretense that she is a woman."

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zzzZZZzzzZZZzzz

Methodology:

1) Make some offensive claims, exaggerate, establish silly thesis statement.
2) Come up with a historical analogy that is in fact not an analogy. (Thatcher was infinitely more qualified than Palin, and indeed earned her position, her appeal was very different)
3) Get some quotes taken out of context and out of median, and use them as "proof".

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Originally posted by Sven:
[b]

It was "too predictable" because you've read similar columns by Cathy Young?[/b]

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No, because it was on the WSJ op-ed page. Where strawmen, and women, and bashing anyone left of Dick Cheney, thrive.

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Originally posted by Sven:
[b]

Actually, yes.

I’ve said for a long time that equality between genders will require, as a precondition, gender equality at home. As long as women have to bear twice the burden at home as men do, women will always be at a significant disadvantage.

Young notes that Palin represents that kind of home (with her husband bearing a very large percentage of home responsibilities—he’s not working outside of the home at all now) and that that is a good model (essentially for the reasons I noted).[/b]

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Yes. And why is that relevant exactly?

Well here's a few critiques, on initial read young completely and totally misrepresents Ellen Goodman's opinion piece. Wow talk about taking a paragraph out of context.

Goodman's thesis is about how her as a 'supermom
is being used politically and the hypocrisy behind it, not some sort of 'as a feminist I hate you' scree.

So onto Marsh, hmm yep...not exactly what Young portrays it to be either.

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So Young says: Yet some feminists unabashedly suggest that her decision to seek the vice presidency makes her a bad and selfish mother. Others argue that she is bad for working mothers because she's just too good at having it all.

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Then gives to examples of 'feminists' opinions suggesting that's what they think. Which if you actually read the pieces she's referring to that's not what they are saying at all.
Yes I have heard women speaking about Palin, about her motherhood and being selfish and yes some of those women are from the 'left'. Some may even be self proclaimed feminists. These woman aren't saying that though. On the other hand I have heard and read similar things from both women and me on the Right, mostly from Christian right circles. I believe Goodman comments a bit about the hypocrisy on that point.

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Young:Not to Ms. Marsh, who insists that feminism must demand support for women from the government.

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Uh no she didn't. Not even close. Marsh is talking about actual women, not some demands of some sort of 'feminism or intellectual feminist theory.

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I disagree with Sarah Palin on a number of issues, including abortion rights. But when the feminist establishment treats not only pro-life feminism but small-government, individualist feminism as heresy, it writes off multitudes of women.

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Here's where I both agree and disagree. She's right but she's also missing what many of the women she's referring to as 'writing off' multitudes of woman are saying. Which essentially that Palin image of 'woman', which sorry just isn't Palin but in the case of the election, a political creation, is writing off multitudes of women and that's where the 'kick in the gut is'. It really has little to do with Palin herself.
Some have reacted quite strongly and I've read some stuff which I do find quite appalling and 'unfemnismist' (for lack of better generalization).
The reaction though, has more to do with how the political aspects are being used. Not with who she is. This new 'vision' of feminism, isn't new or 'woman' isn't new. It's just suddenly become politically expedient so ergo 'new' and exciting. It's as if there is this new discovery on some sort of uncharted territory.
Which in a way I suppose it is, it's uncharted in the Republican mindset. So in this case I can say well good, even though I find it rife with the hypocrisy of it being used as strategically as it is. It is really irksome for instance how people like Dick Morris and Sean Hannity are now giving America lectures on the rampart sexism in society when just a few months ago they were bantering back and forth about women, eg Clinton, whining and not being able to take the heat and hiding behind apron strings, or Dobson's, who now lurvs Palin true feelings on women's place and traditional roles, McCain's sexist jokes and blah blah. I would absolutely love Palin to take people like that to task and call it for what it is as well as this partisan crap. That's doubtful though if the rhetoric around the press and critizism is any indication.
As Goodman points out, at least the working mom as been pushed out of the firing line. At least maybe.

As for Youngs comments on the whole Mom career, Dad home thing. Yes I think that great, though not that insightful to me at least. It's not an uncommon thing to see in my life. I think a lot of the 'feminists' she's talking about don't have an issue either, maybe because they don't see it as a big deal because in there lives its not a big deal. It's just one of the arrangements that working families come to if necessary or if they choose to.
Those women's comments go beyond getting all excited, 'like OMG a career woman, dad at home, wow wow' because maybe it's not all that exciting and they're talking about things beyond that fact?

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]In many ways, Traister’s words could apply equally to Obama: “What Obama so seductively represents…is a form of black power that is utterly digestible to those who have no intellectual or political use for actual black people. It's like some dystopian future ... black power without any blacks.”[/b]

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Not that I haven't been appalled by Obama's hypocrisy, war-mongering, and appeassing of the right-wing this campaign... But why should he have to live up to what other's idea of "black" is in order to be considered an authentic?

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/sunday/2008/09/091408_5.html]Judy Rebick weighs in on Palin on Newsworld.[/url]

NBC has posted on its [url=http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/video/clips/palin-hillary-open/65... last Saturday's opening double monologue: the hilarious address to the nation of "Palin" and "Clinton". Awesome! (Which is why the vice-presidential debate will bomb - it's Clinton that a sexist U.S. public wants to see grapple with Palin, preferably in Jell-O).

[ 16 September 2008: Message edited by: martin dufresne ]

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Originally posted by M. Spector:
[b]Why should Sarah Palin have to live up to what others' idea of "feminine" is in order to be considered an authentic?[/b]

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I never said she did

Republican Strategy Response to "I can see Russia from my House" problem. This is one of the funniest things I read all day. I can't stop giggling. It's almost like they're purposely giving fodder to all of the comics out there. Yikes if they thought Fey's satire was bad. Think of what one can do with this...

[url=http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/16/palin-to-meet-foreign-leaders-a... to Meet Foreign Leaders at the UN[/url]

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Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin will meet with foreign leaders next week at the United Nations, a move to boost her foreign-policy credentials, a Republican strategist said.

Republican candidate John McCain plans to introduce the Alaska governor to heads of state at the opening of the U.N. General Assembly, although specific names weren’t yet firmed up. “The meetings will give her some exposure and experience with foreign leaders,” the strategist said. “It’s a great idea.”
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But McCain advisers hope her U.N. visit will show how quickly Palin can make key connections and become well-versed in foreign-policy issues.

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Originally posted by kropotkin1951:
[b]After watching this going on in the Excited States I have come to the conclusion that:

PALIN DOESN'T WEAR LIPSTICK

[img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]

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This looks to me like a misogynistic personal attack.

Do you two work at plumbing the depths of unfunny?

Let's get back to substantive problems like the fact that Sarah Palin's "feminist" credentials are pretty thin on the ground when she's got legions of paid peons who can take her of her kid Trig while she'll plant her well-paid self in the Veep's seat and pretend she isn't waiting for the old man's ticker to quit. Or consider how she made it so women would have to pay for their own rape kits. Real swell there, Ms Palin.

Ask any ordinary woman with a child who has Downs syndrome how much extra help she has been able to get for her child and how many people she had to cajole and bully into doing it.

(A personal note: As a private person who has a hearing loss, I am personally offended at Palin's use of a disabled child for political point-scoring. If I knew that I'd been paraded around as a young child for something that was wholly my parents' benefit, I'd probably be the teeniest bit hacked off about it.)

[ 16 September 2008: Message edited by: DrConway ]

No, but the Repubs love this kind of tokenism where they'll trot out some black guy or a woman and wave that person around saying, "See? SEE?!?! We're not just a bunch of old rich white guys that don't give a flying fuck about anybody but ourselves and I ME MY MINE, DAMN IT!"

Well, apparently for said black guy or woman to make it in the Repubs said person needs to buy into the macho white-guy bullshit that passes for intelligent political discourse in that party, to the point of Ms Palin endorsing a war with Russia or that other guy, J. C. Watts, outdoing his buddies for the sheer inanities that can pass his lips on taxation, race relations, and so on.

SHE. IS. NOT. A. FEMINIST.

Jesus, this is getting sickening.

Once again, Sarah Palin is about feminism as Log Cabin Rethugicans are about gay rights.

Its truly as simple as that.

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But how the hell is paying for childcare nto feminist?

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Ghislaine, I don't want to belabour the point, but the [i]ACT[/i] of paying for childcare is not feminist. Perhaps the [i]EXISTENCE[/i] of subsidized child care is due to feminist action. This is not the same thing.

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How do you think women with young children work? They pay people. How do you think women with young children with disabilities work? They pay people. If you are saying paying for child care is not feminist - you are out to lunch.

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Um, absolutely not. Many poor and working-class women who have to work outside the home for pay make arrangements with family members, work different shifts than their partners if they have them, enlist neighbours and older children.

And why do they do this? Because there is no free, or very inexpensive, quality childcare available for children of all levels of ability. And who do we have to thank for that? Right wingers such as Palin.

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Originally posted by bigcitygal:
[b]
Um, absolutely not. Many poor and working-class women who have to work outside the home for pay make arrangements with family members, work different shifts than their partners if they have them, enlist neighbours and older children.

And why do they do this? Because there is no free, or very inexpensive, quality childcare available for children of all levels of ability. And who do we have to thank for that? Right wingers such as Palin.[/b]

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I did not say that Palin is a feminist - obviously she is not. I was responding to Dr Conway's comment that paying for childcare is not feminist.

I read his comment as implying that if she were a true feminist she would be paying someone else to be looking after her kids.

Yes, we have major issues with childcare accessibility and affordability in this country. But, in Quebec where universal child care is a reality, parents are still required to pay a user fee. Is this feminist?

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Originally posted by Ghislaine:
[b]I read his comment as implying that if she were a true feminist she would be paying someone else to be looking after her kids.[/b]

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Ahem, no.

What I meant was that she would be endorsing the same kind of privilege that allows her to more easily bear the burden of raising a special-needs child, which is to say, subsidized and affordable and timely access to all the services he or she will need over the course of his or her lifetime.

I don't see her doing that. Her very actions suggest that she's OK with increasing her own privilege but not that of women in general, the most prominent being the pay-for-your-own-rape-kit thing.

The 'Russia from my House' line has gone utterly viral as well as the 'logic' expressed by it.
For instance on discussion boards where you have partisan arguing it comes up over and over, "Well by your guys logic I can see the airport from my office, guess I can be a pilot now right?" It's pretty durn funny how many times it's repeated in various incarnations.
If McCain/Palin win or not for that matter I predict it will be used over an over as an base expression/description of the admin or campaign. It was already out there before this skit because both McCain and Palin when asked about her foreign policy creds, said it, Fey just solidified it.

Also I do find the campaigns comment about 'getting away' from lipstick quite ironic, for one they are the ones that pushed the whole 'Obama called Palin a pig with lipstick' ads that they being admonished for right now plus they are the ones that brought the whole thing up in the first place and don't really seem to be quelling.
[url=http://mudflats.wordpress.com/2008/09/15/sarahphernalia/]Sarahfernalia[/...

I linked to that blog in a previous post about the Anti-Palin rally. I do really recommend it. For me it's probably one of the most interesting places to get info of whats going on for a number of reasons.
This blog owner started it before there was any real inkling about the nominations as commentary on Alaska politics in general. It seems pretty solid in that regard and has been consistently ahead of the news on Palin issues since the beginning. It's bias is obvious but it's not over the top crappy propaganda stuff. It's done with humor to from people who are actually living it and know more about the inside scoop.
The other reason why I find it interesting is watching how it's just blossomed so that now people from all over the US and the world are coming there daily to talk about what's going on. The blog posts are one thing, the comments the best part though with links being posted to everything.

It also appears to be more heavy on the female side of posters which with all of this academic talk flying around the news about Palin is actually to me at least, refreshing to get perspectives from
just the average people involved in the election. It's more then just political 'talking points' flying back and forth.

This blog on the rally was the source of the story that eventually went to the MSN news and in the comment section you can literally watch that happen and as it spread everywhere and see more and more people popping on to say mostly 'thank thank you guys this is so inspiring' from all over the lower 48. I don't think this would have gotten out at all if it wasn't posted there. This really is an example of how the internet postings of an average person can effect what goes on in elections.
It's not just talk though, people are actually organizing through it as well.

The blog owner has posted that they have to update the site because in less then 2 weeks they've got over 2 million hits and the numbers are rising faster then they can keep up. She installed a pretty neat map widget last night that shows graphically where people are and it is the entire world.

Right now the whole 'TrooperGate' thing is in the news and there's some excellent insight into the fanangling that the Repub campaign is doing around now that they are involved from people who actually live in Alaska and know Alaska politics.

[ 17 September 2008: Message edited by: ElizaQ ]