75th anniversary of Holodomor marked

from Serbian Unity talking about U.S. airman Felman's experiences with Mihailovich's chetniks:

Quote:

Felman explained why the forces under Mihailovich had avoided direct attacks on German troops. At the start of the conflict, the Serbian guerrillas had engaged the German forces directly and had inflicted high casualties. The German command, however, responded with retaliations against the Serbian civilian population. For every German soldier killed, one hundred Serbs would be executed. In October, 1941, approximately 8,000 Serbian civilians, many of them schoolchildren in the city of Kragujevac, were rounded up and executed in retaliation for the killing of German troops. The cost became too high. So Mihailovichs forces engaged in what Felman termed Subtle Sabotage, sabotage that could not be detected. Moreover, German troops would no longer be randomly attacked but the focus would be on German military officers and key military leaders. Felman actually participated in acts of Subtle Sabotage with Mihailovichs Chetnik troops. He described how Chetnik forces had hollowed out pieces of coal and instead placed TNT in the core and deposited them on the coal car of a German transport train bound for Roumania. Finely ground-up gravel was placed on the axle gears of trucks and trains which would gradually breakdown.

This of course was later in the war, but the German supply lines to and from Romania and Balkans were varied for a purpose ie. not always the same routes due to past experiences with guerilla sabotage

Cueball wrote:

Ahh coal shipment [b]to[/b] Romania was sabotaged. I see. That has nothing to do with transport of oil [b]from[/b] Romania to the Russia front.

I never mentioned anything about transporting oil directly from Romania  to the Russian front. That was you, I'm afraid. What I have to say about that is, poor Canada! In fact, the Panzers were running out of fuel and supplies, and with lead Panzers of Hitler's army centre group stopped somewhere 20-30 Km outside Moscow by December 5th. That's as close as they would get before being beaten back by the Red Army. His kingdom for a steady supply line of fuel and food for the troops. 

Quote:

This because there was no meaningful insurgency, until after the invasion of Russia had begun. 

Centre group lead Panzers were right there, about a dozen miles from Moscow and Stalin holed up in the bowels of the Kremlin whille over two million were evacuated from the city. Victory was so close they could only savour it until supplies and reinforcements could arrive. It was late. It was December, in fact, and the cruel Russian winter about to set in. Hitler and Paulus and Bader et al were probably thinking, damn those Serbs for delaying lebensraum, the fascist war of annihilation against communist  Russia!

There is nothing in that comment about a direct transport of oil from Romania to the Russian front, as the crow flies, and especially not "a highway to Russia" as someone we both know let slip with somewhere above.

We're talking about overall fuel supply for the Wehrmacht and support vehicles. And there were several divisions riding around Yugoslavia and Balkans burning up precious juice and drawing down overall supply. Inadequate oil and fuel reserves were reasons for a punch into the Balkans and Romania. There never was a steady oil supply, and that was the problem. They didnt completely run out of guzzaline and oil outside Moscow and Stalingrad and Leningrad, but they were waiting for backup supplies which would trickle to the front by various routes after that.

As I was saying in another thread, German field commanders devised a plan of last resort toward the end of the war which some WW II  historians have claimed may have been successful. But Hitler fancied himself a Roman battle line tactician, and he denied them any chance for victory in Russia. They slowly ran out of fuel at the gates, like your tedious notes to me have come close to the truth with some prodding.

That was after June, and after the start of barbarossa, which took place before the month of July. They ran out of gas, like your nonsensical com-posts in this thread are now broken down and "out of gas." Some advice to you: Stay home in Toronto, and surely dont ever consider invading Russia. You'd likely repeat all of Hitler's worst mistakes and end up beating a hasty retreat from Moscow and bogged down in freezing winter weather at the infernal kessel in Russian crossfire with Stalin's organs raining shells down on your ill advised and misled troops.

Cueball wrote:

Fidel wrote:

We're talking about overall fuel supply for the Wehrmacht and support vehicles. 

No we were not, we were talking about you making up stuff in your head, such as that the "Germans needed to secure an oil/fuel supply line from Romania through Yugoslavia." That is what you said.

And I pointed out a source describing a railway route from Serbia to Romania which was sabotaged by Mihailovich and chetniks. Go find yourself a WW II era map of the Balkans and Romania showing railway lines and land routes leading to and from the oil fields at Ploesti. 

So youre saying they shipped coal to Romania by rail via Serbia, and then shipped fresh air in empty boxcars on the return trip from oil-rich Romania? Interesting. It's no wonder they lost the war.

Cueball wrote:

No. I am saying that the oil fields in Romania came complete with refineries, and so there was no reason to send the product to Hamburg before sending it to Russia.

What about the Danube? It was Nazi Germany's most important supply line. If you look at a map, it's runs right past the Romanian port of Giurgiu, which is due south of Ploiesti's oil fields - wholly south of that treacherous Carpathian mountain range -  and due south of those oil refineries you mentioned. And it skirts Serbia, Belgrade etc on the way to Vienna and Germany. 

This is from The US strategic bombing survey of 1945:

(and Map highlighting course of the Danube) for your convenience

Quote:

The German oil supply was tight throughout the war, and was a controlling factor in military operations. The chief source of supply, and the only source for aviation gasoline, was 13 synthetic plants together with a small production from three additional ones that started operations in 1944. The major sources of products refined from crude oil were the Ploesti oil fields in Rumania and the Hungarian fields which together accounted for about a quarter of the total supply of liquid fuels in 1943. In addition, there was a small but significant Austrian and domestic production. The refineries at Ploesti were attacked, beginning with a daring and costly low-level attack in August 1943. These had only limited effects; deliveries increased until April 1944 when the attacks were resumed. The 1944 attacks, together with mining of the Danube, materially reduced Rumanian deliveries. In August 1944, Russian occupation eliminated this source of supply and dependence on the synthetic plants became even greater than before.

It sounds like the Germans were shipping oil from Romania via the Danube before an allied bombing campaign and mining of that river highway was carried out. And if you trace the Danube on a map, it doesnt traverse north to the Russian front where the Panzers and GM and Ford and Opel trucks were needing fuel and other supplies. The Danube does, however, meander South-East from Germany to  Vienna, on to Belgrade and on to the riparian port of Giurgiu. Once it's loaded onto an oil barge or large vessel in any great amount, it takes time to offload. I think the shrewd thing to do would be to send it all the way, and most likely there were serreptitious shipments of fuel by rail.  I would have to surmize that all possible routes for shipping oil from Romania and Hungary were exploited by the Germans.

remind, you ought to clarify though that the Ukrainian Canadian Congress has a clear policy that it does not itself support or fund political parties.  I could not find that piece of info you refer to anywhere on the UCC site, in fact all I found were items which asked major parties in the election questions, and provided their answers publicly.  Elsewhere I found a specific statement clarifying that they do not promote or support any specific party. This is standard practice for NGOs, and most groups in elections provide questions related to their mandate and candidate responses.  so please clarify where you got the information that the UCC gave 5 million to Harper. 

Cueball wrote:

where the "final solution" was approved by delegates from various arms of the National Socialist state.

Except that socialism was out the window by 1936, and all German and international industrialist and banking friends won no-bid contracts for: munitions manufacture, infrastructure building, communications - imports financing - laundering of money and gold looted in surrounding couintries, and mass transit railway tickets(round trip prices for one-way travel) in blocks of 500, to name a few. Slave labour has at times been an ambitious dream for capitalists everywhere.