Former Ontario AG Michael Bryant is held after an altercation with a cyclist left the cyclist dead.
Ex-Ontario AG Bryant held after cyclist killed
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:25
#1
Ex-Ontario AG Bryant held after cyclist killed
Tue, 2009-09-01 08:39
#2
I read the news story this am. All around this is very bad press for the liberals in Ontario, whether federal or provincial, and it is not going to go away any time soon. Liberal brand, St. Paul's, cyclist (environment), expensive car, by-election (St. Paul's), entitlement, wanton disregard for person safety, entitlement - this has legs on so many levels and implications - it is far reaching.
The poor cycalist who died - it just not get worse.
Tue, 2009-09-01 08:54
#3
Anyone know if Bryant was drinking? I would assume the only reason to be at the Park Hyatt hotel at 10 at night would be to have a drink.
Anyways, looks like Bryant can kiss his dreams of ever becoming premier goodbye. This will be his Chappaquidik.
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:21
#4
reading his wiki bio - this guy absolutely made the wrong "in the heartbeat decision" and knows better.
Tidbit - "In 2003 Bryant, an avid cyclist, formed the activist group Shared Highways in Toronto."
More bio (liberal webpage) "Bryant is married to entertainment lawyer Susan Abramovitch, with whom he has two young children."
Another tidbit from the torstar article - "Police are also reportedly questioning a female passenger who was in the convertible at the time."
This is really, really bad all around
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:26
#5
I couldn't believe it when I heard the story this morning. The guy is a cyclist himself!
Dudes, seriously, it's time for bike lanes. Everywhere. And it's time for them to be enforced, too.
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:28
#6
SSC, it didn't say he was going to the hotel. It says he was arrested there, right? So I'm betting he just ended up stopping there (or getting stopped there) after the incident.
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:39
#7
Liberal brand, St. Paul's, cyclist (environment), expensive car, by-election (St. Paul's), entitlement, wanton disregard for person safety, entitlement - this has legs on so many levels and implications - it is far reaching.
Why not call him President and CEO of Invest Toronto, and pull David Miller into this story as well?
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:50
#8
Why not indeed - you know "why questions" tend to make others feel defensive (was that your intent)? Thus, if the "true intent" was to be generous, one would just add that any association with Bryant would be poison and seriously tainted, thus Miller has a problem with this optic too. I'm sure that was what you were inferring. Be kind to others and not assume anything.
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:51
#9
remind
The article stated that alcohol was not involved.
However, it is fucking hard to see how Bryant cannot be charged, he was trying to dislodge the now dead man, by brushing him up against trees and signs then drove over him. If he isn't, then class distinction has become everything.
What exactly is wrong with you know, stopping?
And what else do they need to get filled in, when they have surveillance video's and witnesses who saw what happened?
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:54
#10
remind
I agree Jan, as one could easily state that NOW magazine, who declared him the best MPP ever, is also seriously tainted then too.
Tue, 2009-09-01 09:55
#11
Be kind to others and not assume anything.
Jan, was that your guiding principle when you wrote this:
Liberal brand, St. Paul's, cyclist (environment), expensive car, by-election (St. Paul's), entitlement, wanton disregard for person safety, entitlement - this has legs on so many levels and implications - it is far reaching.
You were "kind to others"? You did "not assume anything"?
Physician, heal thyself.
However, it is fucking hard to see how Bryant cannot be charged, he was trying to dislodge the now dead man, by brushing him up against trees and signs then drove over him. If he isn't, then class distinction has become everything.
What if the cyclist was threatening him with a knife while hanging on to the car?
What's wrong with waiting for some actual information to emerge (beyond the initial sensational news items) before drawing conclusions about rich vs. poor, entitlement, fancy cars, climate change, and the St. Paul's byelection?
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:08
#12
I've been thinking the same thing, Unionist, that we know very little about what happened at this point. It's quite possible that Bryant has a defence - although it's also quite possible that he was a complete asshole driver. Hard to know at this point, since there aren't a whole lot of details beyond a few eye-witnesses who saw the ending chase.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:18
#13
We can look at the bright side. His death probably saved this cyclist from a very nasty criminal prosecution, private lawsuits, whatever Bryant and his friends could have lobbed at him. Imagine: attacking a high-end European convertible, not to mention the politician inside...
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:21
#14
We do know very little except for the article. I was talking about "present association" and how it creates real optic problems.
Generally speaking, due to Bryant's high profile and good name - if the cyclelist was the aggressor or was threatening with a weapon it would have been reported. It was not.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:26
#15
Martin, if I was a family member or friend of this cyclalist I would be feeling very offended. Nothing is "worse" than "death." In a heartbeat, without thought, none of that matters in the least. That is when one realizes that the "material" is irrelevant except for the necessities of life sustaining "material." Speaking from the heart.We can look at the bright side. His death probably saved this cyclist from a very nasty criminal prosecution, private lawsuits, whatever Bryant and his friends could have lobbed at him. Imagine: attacking a high-end European convertible, not to mention the politician inside...
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:28
#16
I bought my current bike, replacing one that had been Kenked, 4 years ago with the intention of commuting to work (about 5 K one way). But after a couple of months of going through the downtown twice a day, out of fear for my life, I stopped. Like a bike courier friend said, biking in TO is not a matter of if; it's a matter of when.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:30
#17
Snert
Generally speaking, due to Bryant's high profile and good name - if the cyclelist was the aggressor or was threatening with a weapon it would have been reported. It was not.
If we assume that the police really don't know yet exactly what happened, I wouldn't rush to assume that if they didn't report something yet then it cannot be true.
If you check all of the Toronto papers, they each have slightly different accounts. One suggests the cyclist was holding on to the door, while another seems to suggest that he was somehow hooked or caught on the door. One seems to give weight to the idea that the driver was trying to dislodge the cyclist intentionally, another suggests that that might or might not have happened.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:34
#18
...if the cyclelist was the aggressor or was threatening with a weapon it would have been reported. It was not...
What is this then? "Burrows would not confirm witness reports the cyclist jumped on the car after a collision around 9:45 p.m. on Bloor St., just west of St. Thomas St., and began fighting with the driver of a black Saab."
I think the process of clearing Bryant is in full swing.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:41
#19
remind
I agree martin.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:53
#20
Perhaps we could do a "guilty - not guilty" vote at this point? I think we've heard all the evidence we need to hear.
Tue, 2009-09-01 10:59
#21
remind
Unionist you do not keep driving down the street with someone attached to your vehicle.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:03
#22
What if that person "attached" to the vehicle is actually hanging on and punching you?
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:05
#23
The original report did not have Bryant's name and was pretty clear about murderous intent.
This is the hot button to end all hot buttons for me. I couldn't sleep for wanting to torture the driver last night (as in killing would be too quick).
It takes some pretty hard rational thinking for me to control this reaction.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:08
#24
According to the TorStar, the police has stated that "alcohol was not involved". How convenient. I wonder if they did an alcootest or simply provided Bryant with that act of faith out of goodwill.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:14
#25
Well, I was the one who brought up the possibility of alcohol initially but it appears I was mistaken. My understanding was that he was "leaving" the Hyatt hotel - which would lead me to assume he was having a drink - but it turns out he pulled in there after the accident. He could ahve been coming from anywhere so I wouldn't automatically assume alcohol in this case.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:16
#26
What if that person "attached" to the vehicle is actually hanging on and punching you?
According to the CBC, of the several 911 calls made during the incident, one was made by Bryant himself.
This morning, Andy Barrie interviewed a cop, who made a public appeal for witnesses to come forward. They're still piecing things together.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:17
#27
What's your point? From what little we know, it sounds like Bryant did something indictable and will suffer the consequences - regardless of whether alcohol was involved. The police may have and probably did do a breathalizer, since I think that's standard procedure after road accidents.
Meanwhile, we have this horrible incident and a man is dead and it seems like all anyone wants to do is to gleefully engage in schadenfreude because this involves a former Liberal cabinet minister.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:19
#28
What if that person "attached" to the vehicle is actually hanging on and punching you?
Rather acrobatic... Would you care to embellish that fantasy indictment, Jingles? What about the cyclist's feet? Kicking mud at the Saab's side panel, maybe? Scuffing them? How about attempting to rape the car's keyhole, while you're at it? (rolling eyes emoticon)
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:20
#29
Unionist you do not keep driving down the street with someone attached to your vehicle.
You're right, every time I've been in that situation, I slowed down and stopped safely. Except for that one time where the guy was pointing his Uzzi at my partner...
I don't know the full story here. You and others apparently do. So carry on.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:22
#30
remind
Found an original coverage before it was found out who the driver was;
Toronto cyclist has died after he was struck by a convertible in a Yorkville hit-and-run Monday night.The ordeal began just before 10 p.m. when the cyclist and driver got into an argument heading west on Bloor Street at Bay Street, police say. As the cars approached Avenue Road, there was a collision, Toronto police Traffic Services Sergeant Tim Burrows said.
“That altercation continued down Bloor Street from Bay towards Avenue Road. It escalated the entire time until a collision occurred,” the officer said.
Witnesses said the cyclist grabbed on to the side of the convertible before falling off. A witness said he struck a mailbox, while Sgt. Burrows said the cyclist hit a tree and a fire hydrant.
“The guy hanging on to the car hit the mailbox, hit the road, and the… car ran over him with the back tires. The guy bounced, and the car sped off and the person that he ran over was there just bleeding,” witness Manual Machado told CTV.
The cyclist was taken to hospital without vital signs and later declared dead.
Witnesses told a local television station that the victim was bleeding from his ears, mouth and neck.
The luxury car fled the scene, police say, but a man was arrested later nearby at the Hyatt hotel.
bolding mine
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/cyclist-killed-in-y...
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:27
#31
I agree with the above posters that more factual information is needed before we can reach any definitive judgements about Michael Bryant's actions.
As for his appoach to politics, the following excerpt from an old Steve Paikin interview is revealing:
Finally, a Michael Bryant story.
Ten years ago, just after he got elected, Bryant was a guest at TVO. I asked him how public life was treating him. His face went white as a ghost.
"The disloyalty, the back stabbing, the internecine warfare...I would never have imagined it," he told me. "And you know what?"
"What?" I asked.
"I love it!"
That kind of macho, politics as bloodsport attitude has always sickened me (even if he did make those comments in jest). If this incident does herald the end of his political carreer, then so much the better.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:29
#32
Stockholm sneered: ...it seems like all anyone wants to do is to gleefully engage in schadenfreude because this involves a former Liberal cabinet minister.
No, personally, I would be shocked and angry had it been any hit-and-run driver - to say the least of what is already transpiring - being provided such sympathy by the press and by people like you.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:35
#33
What sympathy????? I don't see any whatsoever.
Some people have made the point that we shouldn't be judge, jury and executioner based on some very fragmentary hear-say and media reports (makes sense to me) - but I don't see any expressions of "sympathy" for anyone (so far I seem to be the only one who expressed any sympathy for the deceased cyclist).
Maybe Martin would be happier if we got a group of vigilantes together to invade the holding cell where Bryant is and have a public lynching! I'm gad we don't live in that kind of a society. He is entitled to due process like anyone else and i'm sure all the facts of this case will come out in due course.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:38
#34
Martin, if I was a family member or friend of this cyclalist I would be feeling very offended. Nothing is "worse" than "death." In a heartbeat, without thought, none of that matters in the least. That is when one realizes that the "material" is irrelevant except for the necessities of life sustaining "material." Speaking from the heart.We can look at the bright side. His death probably saved this cyclist from a very nasty criminal prosecution, private lawsuits, whatever Bryant and his friends could have lobbed at him. Imagine: attacking a high-end European convertible, not to mention the politician inside...
I did way back.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:41
#35
Globe and Mail reports that Bryant is now under arrest and charged with one count of criminal negligence causing death and one count of dangerous driving causing death.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/toronto/former-ontario-ag-u...
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:41
#36
Thanks Jan, and you're right, you did.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:42
#37
What sympathy??
Attributing our critiques to "gleeful schadenfreude" and to Bryant's political associations.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:46
#38
It isn't sympathy, but in Toronto we've no shortage of asshole motorists and asshole cyclists. I am car-less and as such am mostly on foot these days, and get tired of having to run out of the way of bikes and/or cars that suddenly need to drive where I'm walking as I'm crossing a street or a parking lot, or boarding a streetcar.
Basically, there's not enough space for all the bikes and cars, and altercations are frequent. The assholery (or road rage, or sense of entitlement; whatever you want to call it) is rampant on both sides.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:50
#39
Pogo
When a politician is involved in a potential criminal act it is only natual for a political forum to speculate on the details. Take a look at previous threads. Once more facts arrive of course much of the speculation is shown to be silly and we move on. Then we look back and see what our tendencies were compared to the facts and what that says about us as individuals and as a group.
Tue, 2009-09-01 11:52
#40
Thanks Jan, and you're right, you did.
thank you
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:15
#41
Meanwhile, we have this horrible incident and a man is dead and it seems like all anyone wants to do is to gleefully engage in schadenfreude because this involves a former Liberal cabinet minister.
I don't think anyone here was really doing that. If anything, people are really upset about what happened because a lot of people here are cyclists and they're identifying with the cyclist because anyone who has ridden a bike in the city has taken their lives into their hands because of stupid drivers.
I think it's also important to recognize that while it's possible that Michael Bryant just might have some sort of defence, and we might not have heard the full story, making wild speculations about what the cyclist might have done (punched the driver in the head, had a knife) is probably also not helpful, considering that emotions are running high about this, and people might mistake such speculation for smearing the victim.
Anyhow, those are my thoughts right now about that.
What I really think would help overall, is for there to be bike lanes everywhere, and that they be strongly enforced, including public education campaigns to show drivers and cyclists what they need to do in situations like when cars pull over to let people out of the car, when street cars stop, etc.
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:22
#42
I can relate. I actually ride my bike every single day right through the area where the incident occurred. If I had been working late last night - it could have been me.
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:27
#43
What if the cyclist was threatening him with a knife while hanging on to the car?
Just roll up the window, stop the car and call 911?
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:29
#44
Victim identified
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/victim-identified-in-bryant...
Victim was 33 y.o. Darcy Sheppard, a bike courier.
The ordeal began around 9:45 p.m. last night, on Bloor Street between Bay Street and Avenue Road, at a traffic light. Police said a cyclist and a man in a convertible got into an “altercation.”Raajiv Rajadurai, 23, said he was in an eastbound vehicle on Bloor Street when he saw a cyclist slam his backpack onto the hood of a convertible and then grab the driver's side mirror as the vehicle sped away.
“The driver was going so fast that at one point the biker was holding on to his car and there were sparks coming from the bottom of his shoes,” he said.
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:30
#45
if you look at this globe video of the car parked at the hyatt, there is a large dent in the back driver's side door. this would lead me to believe that the car in question was pulling out to the left in front of the cyclist and the cyclist ran into the car. this has happened to me, and is, besides being actually "doored", which thankfully has not happened to me yet, is in my opinion the most common collision type involving cars and bikes. i've lost count how many times cars pull out in front of me and come in contact resulting in me having to bang on the car and/or yell at the driver to get their attention so i don't get run over.
road rage is deadly regardless of which quarter it comes from. it's being reported now that the cyclist "attached" himself to the car as the car sped off. I am now going to assume the blame will be laid on the cyclist. it has already been assumed above the cyclist was "attacking" the driver. the driver then sped off the wrong way down bloor trying to knock the man off with street furniture. that is in my mind intentionally trying to murder the victim. no matter how much this is spun, a cyclist "attached" to your car, even if he's theoretically trying to punch you, is nowhere near the scale of violence driving a speeding car into fixed obstacles to dislodge someone. and to then run over the guy once he's off and fail to stop makes this murder to me. it may have all happened in the heat of the moment. the driver by acting as he did, regardless of the original incident, escalated the situation to murder. period.
i have no doubts Bryant will get a very expensive lawyer and claim self defense. I would also like to know if a toxicology test was done to rule out drugs.
the police have ruled out alcohol as a factor, but have they considered the effects of being "drunk with power?"
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:34
#46
it's being reported now that the cyclist "attached" himself to the car as the car sped off. I am now going to assume the blame will be laid on the cyclist. it has already been assumed above the cyclist was "attacking" the driver. the driver then sped off the wrong way down bloor trying to knock the man off with street furniture.
Or perhaps after his bike was knocked down, the cyclist just reached to hang on to something to avoid falling into the path of the incoming traffic. And the mighty politician got upset that his precious convertible was tainted by the touch of a commoner.
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:35
#47
remind
Globe and Mail reports that Bryant is now under arrest and charged with one count of criminal negligence causing death and one count of dangerous driving causing death.
Actually they said "possible charges", and what about leaving the scene of the accident?
And apparently he was going way too fast for anyone to read the license plates, and was going the wrong way on the street too.
“How can you explain the guy going the wrong way?” Mr. Machado said.
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:40
#48
What if the cyclist was threatening him with a knife while hanging on to the car?
Just roll up the window, stop the car and call 911?
It's a convertible with the top down. And didn't the OP link say the driver called 911?
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:51
#49
It's a convertible with the top down. And didn't the OP link say the driver called 911?Just roll up the window, stop the car and call 911?
Sorry for asking a stupid question, but I have never been in a convertible in my life. Can you usually close the top by pressing a button? How hard was it for him to just close the top?
Tue, 2009-09-01 12:57
#50
Not sure about that, sanizadeh. What I am 100% sure about, however, is that some people are very quick to draw conclusions based on who was involved, rather than waiting to find out what happened. It shows a potentially dangerous aspect of our human nature. I'm convinced you can summon up as many examples from history as I can.
Tue, 2009-09-01 13:20
#51
We're not "quick to draw conclusions based on who was involved", we're speculating based on eyewitness accounts and media and police reports, which I predict is little less - perhaps even more - than what we will have after we "wait to find out what happened". (For instance, I am betting that evidence from video cameras will be deemed inadmissible evidence under pressure from Bryant's defence team.)
Interesting that Unionist labels a "potentially dangerous aspect of our human nature" the urge to judge apparent killers, rather than the much better-ingrained and protected urge to blow away inconvenient folks.
As for Bryant calling 911, there is a good chance he did that immediately AFTER the "incident."
As for the large dent in the back driver side back door, Farnival, that could also be due to the bike falling into the car during Bryant's high-speed run.