When people in Colorado Springs say no to a tax increase, they really mean it

Colorado Springs is the nerve center of the industrial-milirary complex which is completely funded by tax dollars.Peterson Airforce Base, USAF University, NORAD, Cheyene Mountain, War Games, Matthew Broderick...

Doug wrote:

This tax-averse city is about to learn what it looks and feels like when budget cuts slash services most Americans consider part of the urban fabric.

.... Can't say they didn't have the choice.

This is of course more or less the Vatican of the Christian right: headquarters of Focus on the Family and other like-minded groups.

Snert wrote:

"Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them.  etc

There are good arguments in support of the proposition that the words you are parodying were spoken to Jesus' followers who lived communally, sharing pretty much everything they had. That was why they didn't need to worry and that was how they would be fed. 

Hey, guess what? I got some good weed. 4:20 right now LOL

I was in Denver a few years ago, lots of rich folk there who I think would not put up with this kind of thing (city services being shut down in Colorado Springs), but who knows.

Ontario used to have a Grade 13, and dropped it.

I was still in school when there was a Grade 13, but I certainly don't remember the curriculum as being somehow focused on math or science.  There were pretty much the same options in G13 as in G12, including several English courses, Geography, and so on.

Well, it's kind of hard to argue that Grade 11 and Grade 12 are somehow crucial, when we allow anyone who wants to to quit school, and those grades, as soon as they're 16.  Not old enough to drive alone or at night, not old enough to buy a drink or a cigarette, not old enough to vote at the federal, provincial or municipal level, and not old enough to get a tiny little tweetybird tattoo, but old enough to decide that they now have sufficient edumacation to make it in the world, evidently!

Snert wrote:

Well, it's kind of hard to argue that Grade 11 and Grade 12 are somehow crucial, when we allow anyone who wants to to quit school, and those grades, as soon as they're 16.  Not old enough to drive alone or at night, not old enough to buy a drink or a cigarette, not old enough to vote at the federal, provincial or municipal level, and not old enough to get a tiny little tweetybird tattoo, but old enough to decide that they now have sufficient edumacation to make it in the world, evidently!

Well, it would be counter-productive to actually educate them, but it does keep them off the street at a time of high unemployment. 

Snert wrote:

Well, it's kind of hard to argue that Grade 11 and Grade 12 are somehow crucial, when we allow anyone who wants to to quit school, and those grades, as soon as they're 16.  Not old enough to drive alone or at night, not old enough to buy a drink or a cigarette, not old enough to vote at the federal, provincial or municipal level, and not old enough to get a tiny little tweetybird tattoo, but old enough to decide that they now have sufficient edumacation to make it in the world, evidently!

Yup those teenagers should be chained to their desks and told they have to go to school.  I am sure their learning outcomes from being forced to go after 16 will really improve. Our dropout rates are a function of many things not lest of which is that kids from poorer families have to way the cost benefit analysis.  

if they are not really academically gifted they might make it through an undergrad degree if they stay in school.  That will leave them $30,000 or more in debt and qualified to do the same jobs as if they had a grade 11 education.  Of course that is only the majority of the poorer students who will go to university.  There is always the other group who hang out with the rich kids and end up with good jobs from their connections but many people have a reflex vomit response to toadying to the wealthy.

Mortgage your future on the hopes of getting a better job working for the man.  Hard choice when the debt is certain and the rewards are uncertain.  

The problem is we are not giving our young people a good plan.  We need to give our students the opportunity to get higher education if they have the academic ability without amassing debt loads that are crushing.  That is the only sane thing to do as a society if we want an educated workforce not expect young people to carry an unreasonable financial burden.

Stargazer wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Mortgage your future on the hopes of getting a better job working for the man.  Hard choice when the debt is certain and the rewards are uncertain.  

The problem is we are not giving our young people a good plan.  We need to give our students the opportunity to get higher education if they have the academic ability without amassing debt loads that are crushing.  That is the only sane thing to do as a society if we want an educated workforce not expect young people to carry an unreasonable financial burden.

 

That's why we should have universal education, or reinstall the grant system, at the very least.

BTW, I'm unsure why we should think that life without the option of education is good. Isn't it bad enough that the right equates education with "liberal elites"? Why in the world would we be jumping on the same bandwagon? I'm not saying education is the answer to everyone's problem but it sure does help to have some education no? I mean, at least a high school education.We do have to deal with reality here.

Has anyone else not entertained the very real possibility that should this become more common (eliminating grade 12, etc.) the people who will be affected most are those from the lower class? Are we seriously naive enough to think that school in poor areas won't be the first to turf grade 12. Hey, if the budget is over the next year, maybe they can eliminate grade 11! Wow, so cool huh?

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Are we seriously naive enough to think that school in poor areas won't be the first to turf grade 12.

If cutting Grade 12 is to be a response to financial difficulties then I guess it wouldn't really suprise me if the poorest areas did so first.
But my bet is that it would be done across the province, not school by school (as when we dropped Grade 13) and perhaps private schools would try to fill the gap for those who could afford them.

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Pretty much. I can very easily see colleges deciding that the Utah diploma just isn't good enough so students applying must take other courses - which the colleges would be happy to allow them to pay for.

 

I forgot we were talking about Utah.  I suppose they could use their "extra" year to teach them about evolution and the dinosaurs and such.  Probably wouldn't hurt regardless.