Hello, babblers! I've joined this site hoping to engage in some thoughtful political discourse. Like anyone else, I have my own set of values, and ideas - but I'm pretty flexible, and open to those of others. I find listening to, and talking with others who are politically astute helps me to learn, and formulate ideas on how things work - or why they don't.
Look forward to talking with all/most of you.
Cheers!
Welcome.
I guess I'll start by asking the obvious question...why are you no longer a libertarian?
Hi Ken...thanks for the welcome.
In answer to your question, I was drawn to libertarianism by the straight-forward reasoning presented by its proponents...but as much as I admired the simplicity of some of their arguments...I've found that I still cannot fully reconcile the humanity argument.
It's hard for me to articulate what that is really, except to say that a recent interview I'd watched on Charlie Rose featured a guest (David Brooks - a writer for the NY Times) who managed to capture that lingering feeling I'd had in my head whenever I felt libertarianist ideas had the drop on well...just about everything.
And that lingering feeling is the humanity quotient...the fact that a lot of political discourse, and especially that espoused of by purists fails to consider the human condition...the fundamental things we as a people want or need at our most basic levels.
Also watching that interview where he talks about a book he's writing on the human brain I had a bit of an epiphanal moment when he mentioned how the media can be quite hyperbolic when speaking of things like those colour-coded brain scans we've all seen on the news that are purported to show brain activity whilst being stimulated by "this" kind of music, or "that" kind of smell.
He raises the point that such pronouncements are very premature, and that when it comes to mind science, like anything else we humans tackle, we soon learn we don't know near as much as we think we do. And that perfectly sums up economics, and politics for me at the moment.
I think we continually grasp for meaning in the tea-leaves and a lot of political animals get caught up in the science, without remembering to factor in that in the end we're all just humans being. I guess I shouldn't speak for anyone else...but all of that leads me to believe it'd be foolish for me to plant a toe, let alone a whole foot into one philosophical camp or another.
I think libertarians talk a good game...they have interesting ideas on how an economy or a society should run, and on paper they look clever - however, also cold and calculating...and I've come to realize that as mathematically efficient as their ideals may be - we as people, require community to thrive -as much as any other fundamental - be they food, clothing, shelter, etc.
Do I know now what political stripe I wear? I haven't a clue...haha...I think I'm more confused than ever...yet in a way, freer. I don't know, perhaps one day someone will say or show me something that will convince me that the "every person is an island", isolationist way of doing things is the best way or even the "right" way to run a society...but for now I suppose I'm a free agent - struggling mightily to maintain an open mind.
Hope that comes across less convoluted than it feels to me right now - it's the best explanation I'm capable of at this moment.
See ya on the boards.
Thanks for the very thoughtful response. I think you'll be welcome here if you keep posting like that.
Yeah, coming down on the side of humanity will get you an ear/earful.
Hello, babblers! I've joined this site hoping to engage in some thoughtful political discourse. Like anyone else, I have my own set of values, and ideas - but I'm pretty flexible, and open to those of others. I find listening to, and talking with others who are politically astute helps me to learn, and formulate ideas on how things work - or why they don't.
Look forward to talking with all/most of you.
Cheers!
It's like a formula....
"Hi! Blah blah blah.... hoping to engage in some thoughtful political discourse... I have my own set of values and ideas... blah blah blah...but open to those of others. Listening and talking with others.. blah blah blah... helps me to learn... [and therefore you should be willing to listen to me too] blah blah.
Look forward to talking with some of you."
And always the requisite:
"Cheers!"
prior to the concern troll/lefty virgin/Who me?Ididntmeantooffendanyone/what happenedtofreespeech posts and their subsequent banning within two weeks.
But hey, I could be wrong this time! "Welcome", f-lib.
jas, I'm with you. It's a wait-and-see thing for me, though.
I think we should give "fl" a chance. It doesn't sound like he or she is here to try to "save us from ourselves". I think we've actually got somebody with an open mind. I know it's weird, but there are still a FEW people like that out there.
I'm all for giving new babblers a chance when they take the time to make an introductory post, but I also feel these "intro" posts are totally unnecessary - I can't remember my exact first post here, but I think I found a link to babble.ca from another group I belonged to at the time, and I just jumped right in to the discussions.
I like the intro posts, Boom Boom, but you're right, they aren't necessary.
Ken Burch I am giving him a chance. I'm waiting and seeing. 
For some reason this image just popped into my head:
Forgive the defensive tone this will likely resonate with, but I jumped to the conclusion that there was likely an unwritten rule on this board that any new person must first introduce themselves before continuing on to weigh in on other discussions. Other forums I've taken part in in the past have laid into "noobs" who didn't use proper etiquette by first introducing themselves before posting anywhere else...forgive me for painting this community with the same broad brush.
And for the record...I found a lot of the replies in this thread to my being here a tad on the wary side, which is fair enough...it definitely sounds like you regulars here have had a bit of a rough go with new people. Given that apparent history, I can't blame the regulars here for being cautious, I suppose I would be too; regardless, I came here for the exact reasons I laid out in my intro, perhaps my words were cliched, but I meant what I said...and I find the idea of me coming here thinking I'm going to teach anyone anything to be quite laughable - I'm but a mere student myself, and may that never change!
Sure...like anyone else I have opinions on things, but I try my best to not be overly dogmatic - a brick wall absorbs almost nothing...I can't say I've always been open to other viewpoints (hence the nick)...but that's what life experience will do.
To me, the whole point of being part of online communities like this is to stretch perception, gain perspective (i.e. hear many sides on many issues)...all in the interest of - and at the risk of sounding trite - broadening horizons. Perhaps there've been blow-hards who've come here to sound off on their end-all be-all theories in the past...but what a colossal waste of time - I'm here for conversation, and for listening...not to deliver sermons.
I'd suggest that we use "fl's"presence as an attempt to see how we could present cases for the support of left politics to someone who isn't already "part of the choir".
He could function as a useful "reality principle" in that regard, and this would be important, since if the North American left is ever to grow, it needs to be able to make its case to those who aren't conversant with our ideas from the get-go.
So who deleted my post?
And why?
Where is conrad's post?
Where??
This is weird. There's only [url=http://bit.ly/2xNWN9]one place[/url] I can think where it might be...
I didn't conrad. Can you edit and repost?
I'm afraid I do, have, and always will, end my correspondences with "Cheers" (sans exclamation point). It's the pseudo-anglophile in me. "Ta-ra" is just a little too twee. I also like 'BCNU' (be seeing you) as I'm a big fan of The Prisoner. I promise I am in no way trolling.
Cheers,
Weltschmerz, what would be the effect on you if I went back and removed the 'cheers' from all your posts? I'm not going to, but just curious.
Anyway, it could be worse I guess.
Warmest Regards
Hey OG, the effect would be a combination of curiosity and confusion I guess. My personality, and its silly little idiosynchrosies, are mine, and while I defend anyone and everyone's right to disagree or just be annoyed by them, I would like to be given a reason why they were removed.
Actually, I notice that I don't do it here as much, because I don't sign my name to my posts. My "Cheers" are usually followed by my name. But I'd still be confused.
If everyone signed off on their posts, it would become meaningless, like "Yours truly," but it's charmingly retro when a few people do it, as if they were communicating personally with each of us. Though I find the net ones like BCNU or TTYL kind of flippant, personally.
Take care,
Ok Weltschmerz, just wondering if it would send you into panic attacks until you went back and fixed them.
I remain as ever, your humble servant,....
I'm fairly certain nothing posted on this board (or removed from it) will cause me panic attacks. If it does, I need to step away from the keyboard for a while...
Works for me.
Ok Weltschmerz, just wondering if it would send you into panic attacks until you went back and fixed them.
And then you can start raising and lowering the gaslights at random intervals...
Spam deleted.
I think we should give "fl" a chance. It doesn't sound like he or she is here to try to "save us from ourselves". I think we've actually got somebody with an open mind. I know it's weird, but there are still a FEW people like that out there.
Just to be on the safe side, I will submit an introductory post on FL's thread.
I'm just here trying to expand my mind without the use of hallucinogens.
Have a nice day
Given the easy availability of hallucinogens, why bother?
Welcome BTW.
Now that I've found God, it's time to move on.
Thanks for the welcome.
Has he moved on yet?
I may need to find a better hiding place. Kinda hard to do when you're omnipresent, but being omnipotent helps.
One of my favourites!
"...just a slob like one of us.." Yeah, pretty much.
Just having a giggle with God on a Monday.
The places babble has taken me.
I don't even believe in you, dude. 
Has he moved on yet?
I may need to find a better hiding place. Kinda hard to do when you're omnipresent, but being omnipotent helps.
I can't speak to omnipotence or omnipresence but I can say that being unipresent and impotent is a drag.
Go foth and sin no more.
Go foth? I would have gone with "Go froth"... just sayin'.
Go foth and sin no more.
Big grin Caissa.
Thanks
Btw, "foth", are you actually Allan Fotheringham?
Ken Burch, are you trying to "out" a new babbler?
What, next you're going to ask who "GOD" really is? 
You mean He's not who He says He is?
Golly, the implications!
There's never a Richard Dawkins around when you need one.
"When I talk to God, people say I'm holy...
When God talks to me, people say I'm psychotic".
(As somebody once said).
No, I wasn't trying out anybody, just asking. I always liked "Dr. Foth".
