400 children illegally born in Israel to be deported

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Wed, 2010-08-18 17:40

kropotkin1951

Yiwah wrote:

Yeah yeah, whatever.

Heaven forbid I 'interrupt' this scintillating thread that was never intended to be a discussion, as the OP readily admitted. How dare I not simply let it die after a round or two of high-fives and 'Israel sux0rz!'. Don't worry, next time I won't confuse topics related to Israel as calls for anything more nuanced than one sentence condemnations...anything else might be construed as infiltration, or whatever other conspiracy-like notions you choose to subscribe to.

Because people really do coast around attempting to make you love Israel by talking about how Israeli racist immigration policies are given moral support by their 'developed' allies who are also using racist migration policies to access cheap labour. It's a very subtle and sneaky way of turning you into a pro-Zionist...careful!

Scornful sarcasm hardly ever wins debates. Your arguments have not convinced me that the Israeli immigration system is being fair or just in this matter. You have discounted the systemic "racism" in the Israeli system and implied it is the same as the systemic racism inherent in all western countries. You have failed to convince me by your posts that the systems are equivalent. I find the evidence overwhelming that there is a fundamental difference and that is "ethnic" purity as an underlying basis for the system itself.

Wed, 2010-08-18 17:41

#103

Cueball

Yiwah wrote:

Cueball wrote:

Please explain how they got there, if the German immigration system is overtly an immigration system designed to make Germany a state that is purely ethnically German?

Why would anyone engage your strawman argument?

Go back and read what was actually said, instead of making things up.

You might want to review the expulsion of Roma, including German-born children. Which I'm sure had nothing to do with racism/xenophobia, because no one came out and said it did.

So, in other words you can not find a single case of non-Jewish immigration for Israeli citizenship in the past 10 years.

Wed, 2010-08-18 18:54

#104

E.Tamaran

I think what Israel is doing is exactly like what Kahnawake FN is doing with illegal settlers. Kahnawake is trying to preserve the racial and cultural makeup of its community, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; just about everyone here agrees it's OK, so why isn't it OK for Isarel? Why the double standard?

http://rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/dont-let-door-hit-...

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:00

#105

Pants-of-dog

Frustrated Mess wrote:

....What is the reason for seeking to develop a moral equivalence between an explicity racist Israeli immigration policy, and a German immigration policy? To blunt the criticism, of course.

I'll bet as the occupation continues and as Israeli racism, festering, promotes even greater extremism, it won't be the last time supporters of Zionism will point to Germany and exclaim, "but they did it too!"

Except that is not what Yiwah is doing, so why did you quote Yiwah?

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:03

#106

Cueball

E.Tamaran wrote:

I think what Israel is doing is exactly like what Kahnawake FN is doing with illegal settlers. Kahnawake is trying to preserve the racial and cultural makeup of its community, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; just about everyone here agrees it's OK, so why isn't it OK for Isarel? Why the double standard?

http://rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/dont-let-door-hit-...

Nope. This is the difference between those who are marginalized asserting a right to defend their society in the face of ethnic cleansing and cultural and political genocide, and those who are in a position of power using ethnic exclusion in order to reinforce their ethnic cleansing and cultural and political genocide

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:04

#107

Pants-of-dog

kropotkin1951 wrote:

.... Your arguments have not convinced me that the Israeli immigration system is being fair or just in this matter.

Yiwah was not arguing that at all, so there is no reason for Yiwah to provide any argument for this.

Quote:
You have discounted the systemic "racism" in the Israeli system and implied it is the same as the systemic racism inherent in all western countries.

Nor has Yiwah done this.

Quote:
You have failed to convince me by your posts that the systems are equivalent. I find the evidence overwhelming that there is a fundamental difference and that is "ethnic" purity as an underlying basis for the system itself.

Nor is Yiwah claiming that the systems are equally reprehensible. You do not seem to be very clear on what Yiwah is attempting to discuss. I suggest reading Yiwah's new thread on the subject very carefully.

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:05

#108

Pants-of-dog

Cueball wrote:

So, in other words you can not find a single case of non-Jewish immigration for Israeli citizenship in the past 10 years.

Are you aware of what a strawman argument is?

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:12

#109

E.Tamaran

cueball wrote:
Nope. This is the difference between those who are marginalized asserting a right to defend their society in the face of ethnic cleansing and cultural and political genocide, and those who are in a position of power using ethnic exclusion in order to reinforce their ethnic cleansing and cultural and political genocide

So it's about the nation doing the exclusion, and not about the exclusee, that determines the correctness of the exclusion? I can live with that. Down with Israel, fucking Zionists!!!

By the way Cueball, do you agree with the Mohawks not allowing settlers to live on their land?

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:46

#110

Unionist

E.Tamaran wrote:

I think what Israel is doing is exactly like what Kahnawake FN is doing with illegal settlers. Kahnawake is trying to preserve the racial and cultural makeup of its community, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; just about everyone here agrees it's OK, so why isn't it OK for Isarel? Why the double standard?

http://rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/dont-let-door-hit-...

Just thought I would preserve this very revealing statement.

Wed, 2010-08-18 19:49

#111

E.Tamaran

Preserve all you want Walking Eagle. I fully support what Kahnawake FN is doing. It's the only way to preserve FN cultural/racial identity from settler influences. Deal with it.

Wed, 2010-08-18 20:05

#112

kropotkin1951

E.Tamaran wrote:

I think what Israel is doing is exactly like what Kahnawake FN is doing with illegal settlers. Kahnawake is trying to preserve the racial and cultural makeup of its community, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; just about everyone here agrees it's OK, so why isn't it OK for Isarel? Why the double standard?

http://rabble.ca/babble/aboriginal-issues-and-culture/dont-let-door-hit-...

So in your analogy where the Mohawks FN's are equated to the Israelis who are equated to the Palestinians? Was there some sort of extinquishment of their rights? Should Israel get to use their historic orchards and olive trees to preserve its racial and cultural makeup?

IMO that is the difference between Israel and some FN's grappling with assimilation.

Wed, 2010-08-18 20:13

#113

E.Tamaran

No, I already accepted cueball's explanation that israel is wrong to deport people based on religion/culture. But it is OK for the Mohawk to do it. Period.

Thu, 2010-08-19 00:39

#114

Cueball

E.Tamaran wrote:

cueball wrote:
Nope. This is the difference between those who are marginalized asserting a right to defend their society in the face of ethnic cleansing and cultural and political genocide, and those who are in a position of power using ethnic exclusion in order to reinforce their ethnic cleansing and cultural and political genocide

So it's about the nation doing the exclusion, and not about the exclusee, that determines the correctness of the exclusion? I can live with that. Down with Israel, fucking Zionists!!!

By the way Cueball, do you agree with the Mohawks not allowing settlers to live on their land?

To me its all about the evident power relationships, and though it seems the principles are the same on the surface, the context makes these too acts entirely different. What Israel is doing is aimed preserving the power of the privileged, what the Mohawk seem to be doing is defending the power of the marginalized.

It's a mistake to look at things simply in terms of pure principle seperate from the greater context of power relationships. It's not like the Mohawk are one of the top ten military powers in the world today, agressively expanding their territory, and holding large number of non-Mohawk people in huge open air prison camps. If anything it is the exact opposite.

A better example would be to comare the eviction of settlers from Mohawk territory, with the Palestinian demand for Israeli settlers to leave the West Bank.

Thu, 2010-08-19 01:05

#115

Catchfire

Closing for length.

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