After Anne Frank Baptism, Mormons vow to discipline members
Sat, 2012-02-25 23:55
#1
After Anne Frank Baptism, Mormons vow to discipline members
Sat, 2012-02-25 23:57
#2
Yes...that's right...the Church Of Donny And Marie actually went there:
http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/02/22/after-anne-frank-baptism-mormon...
Reacting to a report that well-known Holocaust victim Anne Frank had been baptized by proxy in a Mormon temple, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints says it is committed to disciplining members of its church who conducted such baptisms, which violate church policy.
Word of the Frank baptism came a week after the issue of Mormon posthumous proxy baptism of Jews attracted national attention. This controversy surfaced after it was reported that the dead parents of Jewish Nazi hunter Simon Wiesenthal had been baptized in a Mormon temple.
The church apologized for that baptism, blaming it on a technical glitch in its system for submitting names for posthumous proxy baptism.
_________________________
Yeah...it was a glitch...right...
Sun, 2012-02-26 14:39
#3
Maysie
From Dan Savage:
HEY, EVERYBODY: You know how Mormons "baptize" dead people who weren't Mormons-including Holocaust victims-because Mormons believe they have a right to choose Mormonism for the deceased? And you know how the Mormon Church says that being gay is a choice? The same church that doesn't think you should have a choice about being posthumously baptized? Well, now you can choose homosexuality for dead Mormons! Just go to this link, All Dead Mormons are now Gay, enter the name of a deceased Mormon or ask the site to find a dead Mormon for you, and-presto!-that dead Mormon gets to have a gay afterlife!
Hee.
Sun, 2012-02-26 14:48
#4
From Dan Savage:
HEY, EVERYBODY: You know how Mormons "baptize" dead people who weren't Mormons-including Holocaust victims-because Mormons believe they have a right to choose Mormonism for the deceased? And you know how the Mormon Church says that being gay is a choice? The same church that doesn't think you should have a choice about being posthumously baptized? Well, now you can choose homosexuality for dead Mormons! Just go to this link, All Dead Mormons are now Gay, enter the name of a deceased Mormon or ask the site to find a dead Mormon for you, and-presto!-that dead Mormon gets to have a gay afterlife!
Hee.
Truly funny and completely appropriate -- this posthumous baptizing is bizarre, and just silly. How can any sane person support such rubbish?
Sun, 2012-02-26 18:50
#5
Well, exactly. It's completely stupid. Personally, Mormons can baptize me all they want after I'm dead - I'll still be worm food, it won't have changed a thing about my life, and no one alive who was important to me will think I'm a Mormon. It's horseshit, everyone who isn't Mormon (and probably a few who are) knows it's horseshit, and I can't imagine why anyone would give a damn.
I mean, yes, I get that it's supremely insensitive to baptize people of other religions who were the victims of genocide due to their religion - I totally get that, and I'm not saying that anyone is wrong to feel that the posthumous baptism of Anne Frank is disrespectful in the extreme. But this posthumous baptism stuff is so stupid and ridiculous that a headshake and snort is about all the protest I can muster about it.
I mean, they could baptize past deceased Popes, Mother Theresa, Ayatollah Khomeini, and a whole host of others (and who knows, they probably already have) and it wouldn't matter because it's a bunch of made up bullshit that only they believe anyhow, and it in no way affects anyone else's life (certainly not the dead person's), so who cares?
Sun, 2012-02-26 19:07
#6
When I was very young, I visited the Mormon pavilion at Expo 67. During the guided tour, they explained how everyone could become a priest. I pointed to the many framed photos on the wall and asked why there were no black faces. Did they discriminate against blacks? The answer was: "No, not at all - it's just that no black person has yet fulfilled all the requirements."
I didn't really give a shit about Mormons or any other religion by that point, so I let it go with a smirk.
Only much later did I learn that the scumbag guide was lying to me. Blacks were banned from the priesthood until 1978.
Not all religions are avowedly racist. But all of them lie to you.
As for Anne Frank, they'll have to try harder to beat what the Nazis did to her. And I'm confident they will.
Mon, 2012-02-27 00:41
#7
To be clear, what they are doing is not forcing someone into their religion after they are dead.
They believe that batism is something that must happen in this world, and if a person didn't have the opportunity when they are alive, it can be done for them by someone else. That is the whole reason why they are into genaeology, and one of the main reasons why they build those temples.
Their belief is that the person can choose after death if they want to accept that baptism or not. So no, they aren't forcing dead people to become mormons.
I can still see why many people would see the practice as offensive. But to be clear, that is how the Mormons see it, and why they do it.
Mon, 2012-02-27 00:51
#8
Their belief is that the person can choose after death if they want to accept that baptism or not. So no, they aren't forcing dead people to become mormons.
Did you even read this article?
Though the church regularly conducts proxy baptisms for dead, in what it calls an attempt to give everyone a chance to accept salvation through Jesus, it has a 1990s-era policy against conducting such baptisms for Holocaust victims.
So, everyone in the world potentially gets freedom of conscience - freedom to choose - after death, [b]except Holocaust victims[/b].
How ghoulishly appropriate. They weren't free to choose in life either.
I'm adding the Mormon church to my list of prayers. For extinction. Amen.
Mon, 2012-02-27 01:18
#9
Yes Unionist, although it wasn't necessary.
I was aware of that policy back when it was made, and back then Anne Frank was also a symbol of the controversy. So was quite surprised to read that even with a glitch or a rogue member, this happened.
And I'm not excusing anything. I said - quite clearly - I can see why many people would see the practice as offensive.
I am just pointing out exactly what the practice means to them, for those who didn't get to the link from the link (which itself has a few misleading and unexplained terms like "spirit prison").
Though really, for anyone who thinks this practice is any more outlandish than any other religious tradition, read at the end of that second link where it refers to baptism for the dead in the bible.
Personally, I find the notion of a piece of bread turning into human flesh, and then having to eat it as far stranger. but to each his or her own.
Mon, 2012-02-27 01:18
#10
Personally, I find the notion of a piece of bread turning into human flesh, and then having to eat it as far stranger. but to each his or her own.
No worries, Smith, they're on my list too.
Mon, 2012-02-27 01:34
#11
Well, you add a little Szechwan sauce, it's not too bad, actually.
Mon, 2012-02-27 01:54
#12
Pogo
Okay so if I understand Smith correctly, the baptism doesn't turn dead souls into Mormon's but are rather invitations for the floating dead to choose to be Mormon. Secondly, this invitation is explicitly not offered to holocaust survivors and that someone snuck Anne Frank in. Pretty crazy shit.
Mon, 2012-02-27 02:14
#13
Yup, yup and yup.
The other part of it is that they seal people to their families. They believe that otherwise people will not be able to be together after death, and this is - likewise - an opportunity for people to be together with their spouses, children, and parents if they want.
Again. I'm not arguing in favour of it. I amjust explaining it; and to them it is not just about offering people the chance to join their church.
And again, this fuckup, intended or not, is no less offensive because of it.
Mon, 2012-02-27 02:33
#14
Personal disclosure: My grandfather left the Mormon Church(in the 1920's)because he felt it was "a men's-only church". As a result, they told him that he would NOT be "sealed" with his wife, my grandmother. This meant, he was told, that he and my grandmother would not recognize each other in Heaven.
Mon, 2012-02-27 04:35
#15
The church claims to have raised the spirits of every dead POTUS and offered them a Mormon baptism, and only one refused.
Mon, 2012-02-27 05:24
#16
Had to be Lincoln...after all, he was our first gay agnostic president.
(...that we knew of...)
Mon, 2012-02-27 07:20
#17
Okay so if I understand Smith correctly, the baptism doesn't turn dead souls into Mormon's but are rather invitations for the floating dead to choose to be Mormon. Secondly, this invitation is explicitly not offered to holocaust survivors and that someone snuck Anne Frank in. Pretty crazy shit.
To be fair to the Mormon church, the reason they no longer offer this invitation to Jewish Holocaust victims is because Jewish groups negotiated this with the church.
The fact that the baptism is simply an invitation, and it doesn't even make the claim that the dead person actually ACCEPTS in the afterlife is an even stronger reason for me to wonder why anyone should care about this practice. Baptize away! It's all baloney anyhow, and at least it's one religious practice that doesn't harm anyone living.
Mon, 2012-02-27 07:21
#18
Not content to just go door to door, they have to knock on people's caskets and urns as well, and disturb even the eternal bliss of purgatory and other forms of afterlife. They're a persistent bunch I'll give them that.
Mon, 2012-02-27 07:51
#19
Okay so if I understand Smith correctly, the baptism doesn't turn dead souls into Mormon's but are rather invitations for the floating dead to choose to be Mormon. Secondly, this invitation is explicitly not offered to holocaust survivors and that someone snuck Anne Frank in. Pretty crazy shit.
Yup. Possibly as crazy as 2,000+ years posthumous symbolic cannibalism getting you into a magical afterlife fairyland where you'll be stuck with people who think exactly as you do for all eternity. I believe it's called "Hell".
Mon, 2012-02-27 08:08
#20
Maysie
I can't believe all of us missed this, including me on the first go-around:
(bold added)
After Anne Frank baptism, Mormons vow to discipline members
Oh yeah, baby.
Mon, 2012-02-27 12:41
#21
Boom Boom
If you think baptism for the dead is a flooded graveyard, you might not be a Mormon.
Mon, 2012-02-27 13:04
#22
Bec.De.Corbin
Mon, 2012-02-27 13:20
#23
"The fact that the baptism is simply an invitation, and it doesn't even make the claim that the dead person actually ACCEPTS in the afterlife is an even stronger reason for me to wonder why anyone should care about this practice."
Well, there's no reason to care. For me it's just an amusing oddity. But I can tell you from talking to real-life Mormons, that they clearly believe that the dead person's spirit was raised and communicated with and that the spook in question accepted Mormonism of their own free will.
On a related note, has anyone here ever tried to read the Book of Mormon? Jesus, talk about dull, repetitive and lacking in any substantial content. I could write a better holy book than that.
Mon, 2012-02-27 14:43
#24
Maysie
On a related note, has anyone here ever tried to read the Book of Mormon? Jesus, talk about dull, repetitive and lacking in any substantial content. I could write a better holy book than that.
I think they gave that chapter to a junior editor.
Mon, 2012-02-27 14:44
#25
I haven't read it yet though I do have a copy given to me by a student politics colleague about 20 years ago.
Mon, 2012-02-27 17:43
#26
bagkitty
I think Dan Savage missed the opportunity to appeal to the vast army of underwear fetishists by linking to Magic Mormon Underwear rather than indulging in tit for tat post mortem missionary games. Doesn't he realize that is more fun to taunt the living than the dead?
Mon, 2012-02-27 19:21
#27
Geez I thought you said Doc Savage and was about to wax eleoquent on old action fun fiction
Tue, 2012-02-28 10:07
#28
On a related note, has anyone here ever tried to read the Book of Mormon?
No - but I got a strange email from Elections Canada telling me of an address change for the Mormon bookstore... then this link:
[url=http://youtu.be/zdmMCaxixro]Baptize Me[/url]