NDP challenges Conservative attempt to reopen abortion file

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Unionist
NDP challenges Conservative attempt to reopen abortion file

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Unionist

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-accuses-harper-of-allow... accuses Harper of allowing Tories to revive abortion debate[/url]

Quote:

Stephen Woodworth, a Conservative MP from Kitchener, Ont., has promised to explain next Monday how he will initiate a national conversation on Canada’s 400-year-old definition of a human being – a conversation that could have profound impact on the legality of abortion.

Mr. Woodworth’s initiative, and recent news stories about the funding to the IPPF, prompted the NDP to suggest that the government is deliberately allowing the matter of abortion to be dragged back onto the national stage.

“Can the Prime Minister explain his twisted reasoning with regard to maternal health in developing countries?” Françoise Boivin, an NDP MP from Quebec, asked during the daily Question Period at the House of Commons. Are Canadians to understand, asked Ms. Boivin, “that he is giving in to the pressure by backbenchers on the fanatic religious right who want to reopen the debate on abortion?”

6079_Smith_W

Shit. 

I wonder if this has anything to do with Brad Trost opening his mouth again:

http://www.thestar.com/article/1124432--conservative-mp-brad-trost-says-...

 

As an aside, I don't know where the reporter gets the "400-year-old definition" from.  After all, it was less than 100 years ago that women were not considered human beings in Canada.

 

Unionist

And the Criminal Code which contains this definition (Section 223) is only 120 years old.

 

Unionist

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Conservative+take+issue+with+funding... take issue with funding of safe abortion advocate[/url]

This is the earlier story, showing the range of issues that "dissatisfied backbenchers" are conspiring about.

Those babblers who guaranteed that Harper was too smart to touch abortion will have to rethink their certainty soon.

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

6079_Smith_W wrote:

After all, it was less than 100 years ago that women were not considered human beings in Canada.

Vastly overstated. 100 years ago women were subject to certain "legal incapacities" such as the right to vote or hold public office, but they were certainly acknowledged as human beings.

 

Unionist

Hey Spector, serious question: Do you know (or how would one figure out) when the definition in Section 223 was first enacted?

 

6079_Smith_W

Vastly overstated? Perhaps you are right.

On the other hand, I have never had someone tell me  that I was not qualified to do my job because I was "not a person". I might see it as something more than a "legal incapacity".

Emily Murphy was told that by a defense attourney during her first case as a judge. 

She was also told the same thing by Prime Minister Robert Borden, who was upheld by the Supreme Court of Canada (on a technicality, because the court did find that women were persons).

It was only the British Privy council which forced our federal government to allow women to hold public office.

Sorry for the tangent, but it is relevant to this question, since the Supreme Court has never ruled on whether a fetus is a person or not. The question was considered moot given its ruling WRT the rights of women.  

Currently the born alive rule is the principle that fetuses are not legal people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_alive_rule

Any attempt to change the law will probably focus on that point. Unfortunately it doesn't help that some journals and even the CBC have recently used the meaningless but inflamatory term "feticide".

 

 

M. Spector M. Spector's picture

Unionist wrote:

Hey Spector, serious question: Do you know (or how would one figure out) when the definition in Section 223 was first enacted?

It's as old as the Canadian Criminal Code itself, which was enacted in 1892, and codified much of existing British law. The original text read:

Quote:
219. A child becomes a human being within the meaning of this Act when it has completely proceeded, in a living state, from the body of its mother, whether it has breathed or not, whether it has an independent circulation or not, and whether the navel string is severed or not. The killing of such child is homicide when it dies in consequence of injuries received before, during or after birth.

It has been reworded since then, but the meaning remains unchanged.

[url=http://www.archive.org/details/criminalcodevic00canagoog]Source[/url]

Unionist

I won't even ask how you found that obscure site, where "user tpb" uploaded a digitized version of the 1892 Code - but thanks for the answer!

Unionist

Press release today by the Fédération des femmes du Québec (of which Françoise David used to be the president):

[url=http://www.ffq.qc.ca/2012/09/motion-woodworth-motion-absurde/]Motion Woodworth, motion absurde[/url]

And a last-minute demo called today by the FFQ:

[url=http://www.cjad.com/CJADLocalNews/entry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10441253]Montreal protest against private Tory motion on abortion[/url]

Unionist

[url=http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Quebec+groups+call+Rona+Ambrose+resi... groups call for Rona Ambrose to resign for supporting fetal-rights motion[/url]

 

6079_Smith_W

Accorrding to last night's The National there is another private members bill on the way - this one to do with gender selection. Great - they get to be anti-choice and racist at the same time now.

I think Harper is actually enjoying this. I have this image of him holding a mad dog on a tight leash - demonstrating that he has the power to let it go if he wants to. To someone who isn't paying attention he looks like the reasonable one.

Unionist

6079_Smith_W wrote:

Accorrding to last night's The National there is another private members bill on the way - this one to do with gender selection. Great - they get to be anti-choice and racist at the same time now.

They're using a different approach - a "motion":

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/tory-mp-presses-for-ban-on-... MP presses for ban on sex-selective abortion motion[/url]

 

Sean in Ottawa

This could go under media as well as it is also a complaint about crappy journalism.

Barbara Kay wrote a vile piece on sex selective abortion. She is entitled to her biased, anti-women, opinion. However, her article is misleading and manipulative as well. In that article she cites an Environics poll that found 92% of Canadians were against sex-selective abortions being legal. Frames those who oppose limiting a woman's right to chose as being a radical 8% fringe. I was immediately suspicious. I am sure the number who don't like sex selective abortions is extremely high but that the number who want it to be illegal would not be so high-- a large number of people even in today's right wing Harperland respect that women have absolute choice and do not have to explain themselves as to their reasons. I looked up the poll as I knew something was wrong with it.

Well, the survey was commissioned by the anti-choice group Life Canada.

The questions were leading according to the poll documentation. Before being able to answer, market researchers would tell people when the heart would start beating etc. This information is not just information that would help people answer the poll-- it would also help those who recognized that this was an anti-choice push-poll know when to hang up if they were not themselves anti-choice. I know enough about polling having worked in it myself to know that you can set up a poll to go the way you want by turning off respondents who might otherwise give you a different opinion than the one you are looking for. The poll is clearly one of those -- designed to deliver a specific result. Most people I know would have hung up on the first question while those who are anti choice would have done the entire thing creating the desired result. When you consider that, the poll's results are not all that good for the anti choice side. Still they created a poll that then lifted out of context -- unethically -- then becomes a leading position to place in an article as Barbara Kay did.

There are important things here that I want to point out: This is a textbook case of mass manipulation. The poll itself is not so bad as it is so clearly biased in the documentation that those reading it would not be fooled but the unethical reporting omits all of that. That is important to document. Of course the attack on women's rights is always essential to document as I do here. Since that is the more important of the two I placed my post here rather than under media. Below you will find my post put below Kay's article:

 

You talk about the poll from 2011. The poll told respondents, before they answered, reasons to make sex selective abortions illegal. It did not tell them the legal implications of limiting a woman's choice or how those limits can be extended using the logic of no longer respecting a woman's absolute control of her body. It did not tell them that if women were sufficiently empowered they would not choose to abort girls. It did not tell them that women could be forced into explaining themselves as a condition of having an abortion if they no longer had absolute choice or what that explanation process and potential legal sanctions could be. It presented a one-sided argument. But don't take my word for it read the poll documentation here: http://www.lifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/lifecanada2.pdf

Environics being a reputable polling company was careful in the documentation to include all that. You as a journalist unfortunately did not. You have a responsibility to report it when your information comes from a source that is biased and is created or collected in a biased way.

The poll was paid for and had questions designed by Life Canada an anti-choice lobby group. Environics in their report disclosed that fact: "The questions were designed by senior Environics researchers in conjunction with representatives from LifeCanada." When you quoted that poll, as a journalist, ethically, you should have included that information as well.

Sean in Ottawa

Interesting. I called the NP and they did not care and sent me to some voice-mail hell. I called the Ontario Press Council and they told me that the National Post was not a member unlike most other big papers like the Globe. I was advised to call the Post back and ask to speak to the publisher. I left a voice mail asking for a return call. I have also asked editorial to return my call.

Here is a link to the Post article I am complaining about: http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/12/19/barbara-kay-on-sex-select...

Ward

 

here's some gobble-d -gook

http://www.biomedcentral.com/1741-7015/3/18