Catalonia

Catalonia president rules out snap election

Hopes of a possible solution to the Catalan independence crisis have been dashed after the regional president, Carles Puigdemont, ruled out a snap election...

Reports earlier on Thursday that he was preparing to hold elections and abandon his pledge to declare independence brought a swift and angry response from many of his allies.

The Catalan Republican Left (ERC) party, part of Puigdemont’s ruling coalition, said it would abandon the government if the president called elections.

Gabriel Rufián, an ERC MP in Madrid, implied that Puigdemont had betrayed the independence movement, tweeting: “155 pieces of silver,” while Adrià Alsina, the press secretary of the grassroots Catalan National Assembly, tweeted: “Frau, Fraude, Fraud.”

Meanwhile, the far-left CUP party said it would not support elections, adding that the unilateral independence referendum held on 1 October had yielded a popular mandate.

​I suspect that if those parties in favour of independence thought they could win an election they wouldn't be quite so opposed to one. 

Catalan parties announce declaration of independence for this Friday

After this evening's speech by Catalan president Carles Puigdemont, who finally declined to call regional elections and put the next step in the hands of the Catalan Parliament, Junts pel Sí (Together for Yes) and CUP (Popular Unity Candidacy) have announced a declaration of independence for this Friday. Junts pel Sí is the currently governing alliance, of which Puigdemont is a member, a government installed thanks to CUP's support.

"Tomorrow we will finish setting a new course for our country". That was the statement from the president of Junts pel Sí, Lluís Corominas, at the start of today's Parliament debate. Corominas defended the mandate they take from the 1st October referendum and strongly criticised the response from the Spanish state which has culminated in the planned usage of article 155 of the Spanish Constitution to intervene in Catalan autonomy. He started his speech making reference to the leader of pro-independence organisations, Jordi Sànchez and Jordi Cuixart, who remain in prison awaiting trial, accused of sedition for organising demonstrations in the run-up to the referendum. This comment was greeted by a long standing ovation from the JxSí, CUP and CSQP (Catalonia Yes We Can) deputies.

epaulo13 wrote:

Catalan parties announce declaration of independence for this Friday

 

So it's all settled then.

I'll just point out that the Spanish state is acting in accordance with the constitution. It is the Catalan separatists who have acted against the constitution.

Celebrations in St James Square, Barcelona.

Rev Pesky wrote:

I'll just point out that the Spanish state is acting in accordance with the constitution. It is the Catalan separatists who have acted against the constitution.

The Spanish central authority is following the laws it created. Regional voices did not desire this framework and it was not meant to serve them.

..this is interesting. on the advice of the right wing of the party and the socialist party puigdemont threw in the towel on independence and called elections. i posted that call for elections up thread. then puigdemont faced a huge backlash from those supporting independence which caused his reversal and declared independence. according to this 13 min newscast.

26-Oct-17 TV News: 'Independence declaration back on the table'

Sean in Ottawa:

The Spanish central authority is following the laws it created.

​Constitution it created. A constitution which was created with the input of Catalonia, and was agreed to by Catalonia.

..a real news report

Catalonia Vows to Resist Madrid's Direct Rule

Expect to see acts of civil disobedience, resistance from public servants, and election boycotts in the weeks ahead, says Sebastiaan Faber of Oberlin College--as well as criminal persecution of Catalonia's political leaders

From Sean in Ottawa:

It must be remembered that the Spanish Constitution that recieved the approval you speak of gave more autonomy to Catalonia than they had in the previous regime... 

​Yet the Spanish Supreme Court ruled the referendum to be illegal according to the constitution. I think if there was general disagreement with the constitution perhaps the best way to deal with it would be to first change the constitution, then do the other things you want to do.

After all, would you accept that a government of Canada could act outside of the constitution? 

He didn't ask whether it happens, he asked whether you accept it.

..constitutions are not written by and for the people. they are written by governments and then..maybe..in some rare cases are they ratified in an open, full disclosure process by the population. even then constitutions are administered/interpreted via the current administration. it wasn't the population that ratified the canadian constitution nor the patriation. 

"Governments are not representative. They have their own power, serving segments of the population that are dominant and rich." Noam Chomsky

Live Blog

1800 HOURS

• What happens on Monday? Or how to resist the article 155 onslaught (main points of NacióDigital report)
  Main points of the passive resistance being planned against article 155:
  - Ministers and senior executive to go to work as normal, challenging the Spanish administration to remove them physically;
  - Puigdemont to continue to work from the main government building (the "Palau") in St James Square, Barcelona, protected by special group of Catalan police;
  - Parliament to meet as usual (with meeting of speakership panel set for Tuesday);
  - The main public sector union, USTEC, has voted not to accept instructions from executives imposed under aricle 155 intervention. Workers Commissions (CCOO) will not offer disobedience. However, many workplaces have had all-in mass meetings and voted that they will not accept orders from executives imposed from Madrid.. The minority unity confederation Intersindical-CSC has already held over 30 mass meetings to impart methods of peaceful resistance.

..this real news report gives an important insight into why this independence movement is happening now. well worth the 13 min video.

Catalonian Independence: What are the Economic Stakes?

The conflict has a lot to do with Spain's economic failure since the world financial crisis of 2008 and its impact on young people and the long-term unemployed, says Mark Weisbrot, co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research

quote:

MARK WEISBROT: Yes. Well, I think you have ... The economy is a big factor, here, and unemployment is the biggest thing, because you have 18% unemployment in the past year, and twice that for youth. More than 40% of that is long-term unemployed, people who have been out of work for a year or more, and even the ones who are lucky enough to get new jobs ... And the IMF says that the prospect for the long-term unemployed is very dismal, but the ones who get new jobs, they're not permanent jobs, and so there's a whole generation there that doesn't have much of a future in Spain. There's nothing the government is offering. In fact, the government is not offering anything but more austerity, actually, and they're not going to do anything to really reduce unemployment. They've accepted it, and you can see this in the paper that the government does with the IMF, so it's not just speculation about their intentions. This paper actually ... Again, a joint paper from the government of Spain and the IMF, says that Spain is going to reach its full potential output sometime within a year, and yet unemployment will still be 16%. They're defining 16% as as good as it gets. 16% is, for them, full employment, and that means just really a whole generation doesn't have much of a future.

quote:

MARK WEISBROT: There's no doubt that Catalonia contributes more to the tax base of the economy than it gets back, and that's a grievance of some people there, but I think the big thing is the economy itself. You have this failed experiment. Since the world financial crisis and recession, you've also had a huge increase in inequality. The ratio of income from the top 20% to the bottom 20% is, like, 7.5, which is the third worst in the whole European Union. So, you have the unemployment and the inequality, and this is something that, again, they're not offering any solution. This is something that Spain shares with the rest of ... Or Catalonia, you could say, shares with the rest of Spain, and Spain shares with most of the rest of Europe, including France, and Italy, and Portugal, and most of the Eurozone countries, because they don't have any real control over their most important economic policies. It so happens that Spain has a right-wing government, so they go along with this austerity and the policies of the European Union, but the ones who don't want to, like Greece, who tried not to, they were crushed by the European authorities. It really shows that there's a fundamental democratic, prices of democracy, I think Professor Faber has talked about on your show a couple of times, and it really, the economics is a huge part of that. I mean, before the creation of the Euro, you could say that Europe was generally more democratic, or had a more advanced democracy than the United States. Now it's quite the opposite, and that's one of the reasons why Europe has more than twice the unemployment rate of the United States, because they've taken away any ability, or most of the ability, of the members of the Eurozone especially, and to a lesser extent the European Union, to control the most important economic policies.

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Rev Pesky wrote:

From Sean in Ottawa:

It must be remembered that the Spanish Constitution that recieved the approval you speak of gave more autonomy to Catalonia than they had in the previous regime... 

​Yet the Spanish Supreme Court ruled the referendum to be illegal according to the constitution. I think if there was general disagreement with the constitution perhaps the best way to deal with it would be to first change the constitution, then do the other things you want to do.

After all, would you accept that a government of Canada could act outside of the constitution? 

 

I would expect the government of Canada to hold talks with a part of Canada that held a vote on independence and not refuse them -- even if that vote were illegal.

Talking is not against any consitution.

So, a few thousand inhabitants of the Mormon and bible-belts of far-southern Alberta hold an unofficial referendum about joining Montana, and vote by whatever majority to do so. The federal government is obligated to recognize this as legitimate, and fly representatives in to negotiate with their leaders?  

From an interview posted by epaulo13:

MARK WEISBROT: Yes, and I think Professor Faber mentioned this, but it's worth emphasizing that the popular party, and Mariano Rajoy, the Prime Minister, they have deep roots in the fascist dictatorship...

​This is nothing but rank slander. Mariano Rajoy was born in 1955, and is hardly old enough to have deep roots in anything from 1978 or earlier, but in addition to that, he is a grandson of one of the architects of the Statute of Autonomy of Galicia, Enrique Rajoy Leloup, who was removed from his teaching job by the Franco dictatorship in the 1950's.

Rajoy, and the party he is leader of, are right-wing, but it's a long way from right-wing to fascist, not the least of which is the difference in viewpoint about electoral politics, and constitutions.

voice of the damned wrote:

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Rev Pesky wrote:

From Sean in Ottawa:

It must be remembered that the Spanish Constitution that recieved the approval you speak of gave more autonomy to Catalonia than they had in the previous regime... 

​Yet the Spanish Supreme Court ruled the referendum to be illegal according to the constitution. I think if there was general disagreement with the constitution perhaps the best way to deal with it would be to first change the constitution, then do the other things you want to do.

After all, would you accept that a government of Canada could act outside of the constitution? 

 

I would expect the government of Canada to hold talks with a part of Canada that held a vote on independence and not refuse them -- even if that vote were illegal.

Talking is not against any consitution.

So, a few thousand inhabitants of the Mormon and bible-belts of far-southern Alberta hold an unofficial referendum about joining Montana, and vote by whatever majority to do so. The federal government is obligated to recognize this as legitimate, and fly representatives in to negotiate with their leaders?  

So we are comparing Catalonia to a few thousand bible thumpers? Sometimes you are  funny.

2 million people voted yes 177,ooo voted no.

If 2 million Canadians voted to leave, I would expect the federal government to want to talk to them about why they did so. The conversation can include a discussion about voting rates, questions, legality and legitimacy. But when that many people want to leave the country, the correct answer is not to crack down and avoid the discussion.

In terms of the percentage of the size of the area where the vote was held with a 97% yes result, it is closer to the population of the entire province of Alberta in Canadian terms than some far off corner of Southern Alberta.

43% of that part of Spain voted 97% in favour of independence. Any analysis would suggest that they may represent a majority given that you cannot presume everyone who did not vote would have voted the same way. Catalonia is bigger than 10% of Spain in population and more than that in economic power. This is not some new bible thumping division, but a very old nation.

Spain is being stupid if it thinks that this will go away by a refusal to discuss.

Spain's position is that its ancient nations do not have the right to self determination and cannot be divided no matter what the local populations want. This is an untenable position in the long term. It comes from a mentality that predates democratic process and is founded on intimidation rather than will.

Living in a country is like living in a marriage -- both must agree. One cannot out-number the other and say they had a vote (This adresses comments here that the entire population of Spain decides the future of a part of it. In Canadian terms it is like asking the Province of Ontario to decide if another part of Canada could be allowed to leave.

And good logic includes a number of variables-- scale is one of them.

Seen a clip about the pro Spanish unity rallying on CCTV4. Looks like there’s a good chance this is going to get ugly with police/ military taking sides. Arrests and detentions are very possible!!!

Guaranteed the Spanish economy is going to take a good solid hit from this instability. My fellow Iberians better figure this one out peacefully or it’s gonna fucking hurt hard soon!

A New Stage Opens in the Spanish State's War on Catalan Self-Rule

quote:

The Establishments Mobilize

However, that conclusion underestimated the huge pressure that the Catalan, Spanish and European political and economic establishments would bring to bear on the Catalan government. The 72 hours between October 23 and October 26 saw a near-panic mobilization of these powers-that-be.

Nonetheless, their offensive failed for two reasons: the resistance of the Catalan independence movement and the refusal of the PP to drop what it sees as a precious chance to liquidate Catalan self-rule as part of its long-held recentralization agenda for the Spanish state.

The mounting pressure on the Catalan administration, which included an ongoing campaign to scare companies to register themselves outside Catalonia and stern statements from European Union spokespeople, severely shook up the Puigdemont ministry and the ruling JxSi parliamentary fraction.

At the same time, it had no impact on the CUP that had been insisting that the overwhelming Yes vote be ratified by the proclamation of the Catalan Republic.

quote:

October 26, 10am. Puigdemont informs his ministers, JxSi MPs and representatives of the two main parties in JxSi – the Catalan European Democratic Party (PDECat) and the Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC) – that he has decided to call early elections and dissolve parliament. All he is waiting for is confirmation that the Rajoy government will call off its 155 intervention and thus avoid “extreme violence.”

Revolt

Puigdemont's announcement left the independence camp aghast. First to comment was CUP MP Carles Riera: “Up until now the Catalan independence movement has had one enemy, the Spanish state. Now it has a second, the Catalan government.”

Next to react were three PDECat MPs, who along with JxSi independent MP Germa Bel, tore up their party cards.

The ERC, while “respecting” Puigdemont's decision, said it disagreed with it and, after an emergency meeting of its national council, advised that if Puigdemont went ahead with his plan it would leave the government. Both the ERC and the smaller force, Democrats, called on Puigdemont to reverse his decision.

The ANC and Omnium Cultural reaffirmed their commitment to respecting the October 1 result. Sumate, the organization of Spanish-speaking supporters of independence, tweeted: "We don't accept Catalan elections, you have a mandate from the Catalan people and you must fulfil it.“

At the same time, the square outside the government building began to fill with angry protesters. They were led by the university students who had gone on strike that day in support of the Catalan Republic.

The students were halfway through their march when the news started to spread that Puigdemont wanted to call early elections. The chants of the demonstrations changed effortlessly to "Not a step backwards!", “Those who are in prison don't want elections!" [a reference to imprisoned ANC and Omnium Cultural leaders Jordi Sanchez and Jordi Cuixart], "Betrayal" and "No independence without disobedience".

Silence

In the hours after Puigdemont's announcement, the noise of revolt continued to grow, but it was accompanied by total silence from a Rajoy government that was supposed to commit to suspending 155.

When PP spokespeople were finally heard from, it was to say that “we have to re-establish statutory and constitutional legality with decisions of the Senate” (Javier Arenas, in charge of regional government policy) and “stopping the application of article 155 doesn't depend on the calling of early elections in Catalonia but on a clear renunciation from the Catalan government of independence aspirations.”(Galician premier Alberto Nunez Feijoo).

By 4pm, six hours after Puigdemont had dropped his bombshell, the media were still waiting for him to make a public statement that had originally been scheduled for midday.

Finally, it was clear the PP was not interested in giving any undertaking to Puigdemont and that, in fact, they were gunning for him.

At 5pm, Puigdemont announced that because he had not received any guarantees, the offer of going to early elections was off the table and the decision on whether to respond to the threat of article 155 intervention with an independence declaration was to be taken by parliament.

From lagatta4:

May I ask what is your beef against Catalonia?

What is the relevance of the number of registered voters within the Spanish State?

​I have no beef with Catalonia. I do have a beef with self-proclaimed leftists who think Balkanizing states will lead to some progressive state that will overthrow capitalism. It is also true, in this specific case, that it's not clear that a majority of Catalonians want independence from Spain. At the very best, perhaps half of the population are behind the separation, the other half are not. Hardly a recipe for a smooth transition to statehood.

​The relevance of the voter registrations was specific to a post in which was made a reference to ignoring one set of voters because of the small numbers, while accepting the other set of voters because of large numbers. My point was strictly about who decides what size of voting block is required to move from 'ignore' to 'accept'.

Live Blog:

MONDAY, OCTOBER 30

0800 HOURS

• [October 29]. Catalunya en Comú to stand in December 21 Catalan poll. Statement below.

At its meeting this Sunday the Executive Committee chose to participate in the elections to Parliament to defend its project for sovereignty and change

The National Coordinating Committee of Catalunya en Comú will be asked to confirm next Sunday, November 5, the decision to participate in the elections to the Parliament of Catalonia convened for December 21. This was agreed by the Executive Committee today, which met to assess the current political context and the calling of the election, and has chosen to participate in the December 21 poll.

The leadership of Catalunya en Comú considered it essential to defend its project for sovereignty and change at the ballot box and not leave this space empty in the electoral fight in Catalonia. The decision was relayed this evening to the members of the National Coordinating Committee of Catalunya en Comú  so they can vote on it at the next meeting of that body.

The Executive Committee of Catalunya en Comú will meet next Friday, November 3 to prepare a proposal for the ticket and code of ethics, which will also have to be endorsed by the Coordinating Committee on Sunday. Subsequently, all persons affiliated to Catalunya en Comú will be able to ratify the candidacy and the code of ethics at a mass meeting.

• [October 26]. Quebec Committee of Solidarity with Catalonia launched. Statement:

The behavior of the Spanish Government towards the people of Catalonia, which has exercised its right to self-determination by voting for their independence, is an outrage to all those who care about democracy. Brutality and repression, which have been the Spanish response to this legitimate democratic exercise, are unacceptable. The peaceful and courageous actions of millions of Catalans and Catalans are an inspiration for all. But this movement still needs concrete actions of support.

Civil society and human rights organisations in Catalonia have called for international solidarity. That is why we are launching the Quebec Committee of Solidarity with Catalonia.

In addition to the imprisonment last week of Jordi Sànchez and Jordi Cuixart, presidents of the Catalna National Assembly and Omnium Cultural, this Friday the Spanish Senate will apply Article 155 of the Spanish Constitution to suspend the autonomy of Catalonia. With this gesture, the Madrid government aims to dismiss the president and all his government, control the public media and the Catalan police and dissolve the Parliament of Catalonia so as to trigger elections where the separatist parties could even be deprived of the right to stand.

The times are serious, but the determination and capacity of mobilisation of the Catalan people are unshakeable. Let's show our solidarity with Catalonia from Quebec. We will see you this Thursday evening, in the middle of a crucial week for democracy where, as the poet Miquel Martí i Pol said: "Everything remains to be done and everything is possible".

From lagatta4:

Pesky, Bush, Harper and Trump have been elected. That proves nothing.

What the f is a "self-proclaimed leftist"? There is no academy that awards certificates of leftyness. We are pretty much all "self-proclaimed".

​Of course it proves something. It proves that, with the full history of the PP known to the public, 33% of the electorate still felt the PP was the best party to govern the state. Bear in mind this observation was made in response to  someone who was speaking as if that history was unknown, and the electorate were fooled into voting for them.

​As far as 'self-proclaimed' anything, I suppose it's true that anyone could call themselves leftist or progressive. At the same time, I have a right to ask what leftist principles they're defending or proposing in their arguments.

​Perhaps someone could tell me what bedrock left principles are at stake here?