NDP Ex-MPs to rock Couillard's world?

Finally!

Let's get this show on the road.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Democratic_Party_of_Quebec

http://ici.radio-canada.ca/nouvelle/1070821/quebec-solidaire-accepte-la-...

From CBC link:

Quote:

Option Nationale officials, moreover, have been critical in the past of Québec Solidaire's dedication to multiculturalism and its defence of higher immigration levels. That's made QS members worried the party is sacrificing its progressive values for the sake of trying to build votes among more identity-focused sovereignists.

"I could go as an observer, but I don't have the heart to watch this party that I have been so committed to building go through a train-wreck," said May Chiu, an anti-racism activist who was a candidate for Québec Solidaire in the 2008 election.

Well put.

I don't intend to vote QS any longer. 

Here is an opinion piece from Sol Zanetti against those who oppose "diversity": http://quebec.huffingtonpost.ca/sol-zanetti/sattaquer-diversite-replique...

I'm not at all an expert on Option nationale, but I think that the more rightwing "identitaires" have gone elsewhere with the rappochement with GS. Of course all of this remains to be seen.

Ken Burch wrote:

So Pondering, what's YOUR theory as to why NPD-Quebec is still not a thing?

It's becoming a thing. From wiki:

The original party emerged from the Quebec Chapter of the Cooperative Commonwealth Federation, and aside from temporarily holding a single seat in the National Assembly (David Côté) it only played a minor role in Quebec provincial politics. During the late 1980s it came under the leadership of radical sovereigntists, prompting a rupture from the federal NDP. It voted to disaffiliate from the federal party in 1989 and changed its name to the Parti de la democratie socialiste or "Party of Democratic Socialism" in 1994.

Apparently radical sovereignists took over and killed it. Sovereignists would rather Quebec be controlled by right wingers in the hopes it will convince Quebecers to embrace sovereignty. Instead it has lead to Quebecers embracing the right in the form of CAQ and the Liberals. The left is nowhere to be seen. They are off in corner somewhere committing suicide on the alter of sovereignty.

The more I pay attention to politics the more I see that there is no political party interested in representing the interests of the 99% as the 99% sees it. They either want to change what the 99% wants or they want to give them just enough to win elections.

Because you don't agree with me, you won't vote for the QS candidate (who won't be me; I have no interest in standing for office) in a riding where I don't live?

Not that any of this matters. I have a right to think and say what I want. So do you. Of course I want workers to be able to earn money. That is not what the phrase "money talks" means. It refers to what is now called the power of the 1%, or the moneyed elite. And since when was I against people learning as many languages as possible? That is NOT what the domination of English means, or the threat of assimilation. Moreover, Couillard is certainly not standing up for the defence of French, on the contrary. And the CAQ's solution is the reproductive slavery of Québécoise women... Duplessis relooked.

But your analysis of Québec history seems strangely blind to the very strong influence of labour and popular movements in movements for francisation and greater autonomy, up to and including sovereignty.

What I said about the rights of indigenous nations was my opinion, not the opinion of a party. But QS definitely stands in solidarity with the 11 Indigenous nations in Québec, as well as others throughout the world.

As a practical matter, even if QS were to be elected, I doubt they'd push for an immediate referendum or even necessarily do a referendum at all.  They would want the chance to pass their agenda, and going immediately to a referendum would pretty much force them to put that aside.  Also, they are aware of the poll numbers of 

Also, if you want the NPD-Q to be an actual alternative to QS,  you're going to need to push them to actually be a Left party...to be "QS with federalism".  They aren't going to win anyone over by taking a "we have no truck with any of that socialist nonsense-we're a MODERN 'center-left' party!" nonsense.  Is that something you plan to do if you end up supporting them?

And would you agree that there's no reason for the NPD-Q to nominate candidates in any of the current QS ridings, given that nobody but the PLQ and the CAQ would benefit from them doing so?  That it should not be the purpose of the NPD-Q to try and wipe QS out?

lagatta4 wrote:

Well, in my riding it would be most likely to benefit the PQ...

​And you'd think that would be the LAST party Pondering would want to help.

The standard patter from sovereignist parties is to say the referendum will happen in the second mandate. Which means not at all. 

They won't, either in Gouin or in Mercier. If you vote against us, you are helping the PQ.  Not that I care what you do, as you have always poo-pooed activism and activists in favour of a passive "silent majority".

In the last election, almost all the posters of the (islamophobic) PQ candidate were defaced. I'm confident that wasn't done by QS activists; it was young unaligned activists.

It is not really clear what the NDP stand for. In Alberta, it seems to be oil, and in BC, it seems to be Site C. If the NDP want to distinguish themselves from the Liberal Tory Same Old Story, they need to stand against neoliberalism.

- Canadian money in tax havens needs to be repatriated and taxed. Otherwise Canadian tax rates are high enough, if only the rich were not allowed to avoid them.
- Higher progressive taxes on dividend income with exemptions for pension funds.
- There needs to be a Made-In-Canada industrial policy including Green initiatives, public works, skills development, protection of Canadian industry, and technological assistance for SMEs. 
- We need tighter control over imports made in countries which allow slavery.
- We need income supports to end poverty.

The NDP seems to need a spine.

pietro_bcc wrote:

Its interesting how people seem to be discussing the NDPQ's place on the political spectrum. I must've missed the first policy convention and election of the first leader.

Raph Fortin from what I've seen seems to be a more centrist option of the current federal NDP strain and Raymond Cote seems to be more on the left (he even endorsed Niki Ashton in the leadership race.) You don't know what the NDPQ stands for because the party members themselves haven't decided what they stand for as far as policy is concerned (there are some broad set of principles outlined in the constitution and texts but not specific policy) that will come on January 21st.

I said NDP not NDPQ because I don't expect the NDPQ to be much different from the NDPA or the NDPO etc. Generally speaking QS is far more left than any of them. QS has male and female co-spokespeople instead of a leader. No matter how left-leaning the NDPQ ends up it will still be centre-left not left. It will still be a more conventional party with a much larger potential voter base than QS. A district like mine, Mercier, will stay QS. The NDPQ is more likely to take support from CAQ and the PQ and the Liberals than from QS. From CAQ because many CAQ voters are just sick of the Liberals and the PQ. From the PQ because the PQ used to be the moderate left. From the Liberals (and CAQ) because they were the only federalist option.

We will see but my prediction is that the NDPQ will have very little impact on the QS vote. We will see next election.

progressive17 wrote:

 Given that the NDP has performed so poorly in the rest of Canada of late, what reason is there to believe they will do well in Quebec? They could even get a good leader who is popular, but the party's poll numbers could stay marginal, as in Ontario. 

Quebec is nothing like Ontario politically. Quebec voters are more adventuresome than the average, more willing to upset the applecart. It's why Quebec has a reputation of being unpredictable. As a brand new party their numbers could be bleak but so what? What does it harm? They won't be taking anything away from QSON both parts of which have had plenty of time to establish themselves. Have you forgotten the Orange Wave? Quebecers are very capable of turning on a dime.

progressive17 wrote:

 
Saying that QS is a one-pony party on sovereignity is unfair.

Then it's a good thing I never said that. "Falling on their sword" for it just means it is not something they are willing to set aside in order to advance. That is one aspect of the QS but it is a huge aspect and one they have decided to emphasize in their union with Option Nationale. They don't have to renounce it but they do have to be clear that it's a closed issue for the moment. Their primary focus should be to prove to Quebecers that they are capable of running the province within federalism and delivering progressive provincial policy rather than focusing on percieved federal interference. Once they have achieved that goal they will have an argument for independence. Sovereignists are putting the cart before the horse. The old grievances no longer hold water. Quebec controls its own immigration, has a place on the international stage, has its own civil law, has been able to legislate protection for the French language and culture. Sovereignists have to prove they can do a much better job of running Quebec than the federal government does running Canada. There would have to be very clear concrete economic not symbolic benefits to separation. Even people who intellectually support the notion of sovereignty still won't support it because of the potential economic disruption. If, once in power, sovereignists proved they could root out corruption and deliver services efficiently and become genuinely transparent so citizens could see where our money is going I would vote for sovereignty.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/if-qu%C3%A9bec-solidaire-and-opti...

It would be a union of the small with the microscopic, but should Québec Solidaire and Option Nationale proceed with their proposed merger, it would alter the political environment for two increasingly rare species in Quebec: sovereignists and progressives.

We have sovereignist progressive parties, 2 of them, now 1, we have right wing sovereignists, PQ, we have right wing federalists, we have right wing inbetweeners, the CAQ. What we do not have is a progressive party willing to drop the sovereignty question.

Sovereignists have to come up with a particular reason for separating from Canada and because of the PQ they don't have one. Canada isn't threatening French in Quebec. Their latest emergency is stores in Montreal greeting customers with bonjour/hi in Montreal, the horror. CAQ even admitted their point in proposing it was to prove the Liberals aren't really committed to supporting French in Quebec. I'm hoping that is going to hurt them. The grand majority of French people in Quebec don't feel threatened by English anymore. Sovereignists have tried to focus on language as the issue but it was always intertwined with protecting the culture. That is what people are afraid of everywhere. They like living in a community where everyone shares the same values and cultural touchstones. They want Christmas trees not Holiday trees. In Quebec it takes on special significance for obvious reasons.

progressive17 wrote:

When it comes to issues that matter to people, they are always there with some analysis. Even the anglo media want to hear what they say. They punch well above their weight. They have a good ground game and well-established roots in the communities in which they are strong. As in the case of Project Montreal, it should eventually bear fruit.  

I have voted for them to give them a voice but they are nothing like Project Montreal and they don't have Valerie Plante. Project Montreal and Valerie Plante are intent on running the city for the benefit of Montrealers through practical changes.  There focus is on being good administrators. They aren't trying to sell anything else.

progressive17 wrote:

And say the NDPQ takes Quebec by storm and gets up to say 10% or even 15% in the polls. There will be people voting CAQ, Liberal, PQ, and QS. Unlike these parties, the NDPQ will have no "pockets of support" which might translate into seats. NDPQ support, like current NDP support in the Rest of Canada will likely be a mile wide and an inch thick. Translation: zero seats. 

That's possible but not predictable. Parties do shoot up rather suddenly in Quebec. The NDPQ just might be what people are waiting for. A party that will ignore the sovereignty issue and govern moderately progressively, like Projet Montreal.

progressive17 wrote:

 It now seems to be in the interest of the Liberals, the CAQ, the PQ, QS, and the NDPQ to campaign on proportional representation. It would be nice if they all did it.

I haven't thought about it a lot but I think I would be willing to try PR provisionally at the provincial level.

Long, long overdue, but better late than never. 

And provincial wings of the NDP can be a big help to the federales during federal elections as well.

Provincial NDP looks to make Quebec comeback as leadership race draws to a close

Raymond Côté and Raphaël Fortin are both vying to lead the newly revived party

The NDP in Quebec will run candidates for office for the first time in over a decade, but both Fortin and Côté remained tight lipped about strategy, focusing for now on clinching the leadership.

An earlier provincial NDP separated from the federalist NDP in 1989, and changed its name to the Parti de la democratie socialiste (PDS). The PDS would later become a founding pillar of Québec solidaire.

Raphael Fortin is running for the NDPQ leadership. (CBC)

Fortin spoke about building a base for the party — now the fifth party competing for seats in the National Assembly — but admitted that the road ahead would be a difficult one.

"I'm conscious that it's going to be hard for the next election," said Fortin. "Maybe in eight years, or 10 years, we can expect to be a big force in the province."

He says that the NDP in Quebec offers a new choice for people who are left-leaning but don't support the sovereignty movement.

"There's at least 35 per cent of the population who don't recognize themselves in any party," said Fortin. "It's a new option for those who feel lonely in the political square."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/provincial-ndp-looks-to-make-queb...

http://rabble.ca/babble/qu%C3%A9bec/ndp-ex-mps-to-rock-couillards-world?...

Christian Bourque, vice president of Leger, told CBC that it won't be easy to corner a significant share of voters but that some areas might prove a more strategic place to start.

"The Southwest of Montreal is probably the best breeding ground for the NDP [in] Quebec, because of the linguistic composition of these ridings and because they have always been sort of left-of-centre ridings," he said.

Doesn't seem like an area that would threaten QS support. If by any chance the NDPQ did threaten QS support it would be because QS is not reflecting the will of the people.

I live in the South-West district. It's traditionally a Liberal riding but went Orange when the NDP was led by Jack Layton but went red again when Thomas Mulcair took over. Provincially it's the same story here. Traditionally Liberal.

I think the NDPQ came late to the party,they will have no influence whatsoever. I predict that next year the PLQ will once agin win this riding.

The NDPQ should have been organized at least 3 years ago. That way,everyone would be familiar with the leadership and platform.

I read in another post that the Journal de Montreal included the Quebec Conservative Party but not the NDP. First of all,the Journal is a right wing rag that makes up stories and has a natural leaning toward Conservative parties. Pay them no mind.

It's going to take at least 10 years for the NDPQ to have any hope of competing to form a government.

I'm not getting any younger,10 years means very little to me.

If they would have organized a few years ago or better yet,when this province went full on Orange. For the life of me, I don't understand why they didn't. If that were the case they'd be contenders in 2018. Huge oppurtunity missed as now this province is poised to elect the staus quo or the most right wing party in generations.Long story short,Quebec is screwed for an indefinate period.

Good job,NDPQ.

Quote:

The Ndpq may be late to the party but it’s never too late to finally get started.

And don't we perenially mourn the lack of electoral choices?

People seem to want more electoral choices, but not ones that might split a vote, or beat a favourite.  Just ones that will win by a landslide and magically grant their wishes or something.

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pietro_bcc wrote:

http://www.ledevoir.com/politique/quebec/516329/le-nouveau-npd-quebec-s-...

I've made my choice for leader. I was leaning towards Raymond Coté before, but Fortin positioning himself once again as the centrist candidate kind of seals it. Got my information for how the vote will be conducted in the mail yesterday.

If the NPD-Q positions itself as a "centrist" party, that means it will essentially be running on the PLQ platform.  In other words, it would be one MORE party of austerity, inequality, and appeasement of greed.  Why even bother?  Why would Quebec embrace "La Voie Troisième" just at the moment the rest of the world is abandoning it?

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Quote:

In other words, it would be one MORE party of austerity, inequality, and appeasement of greed.  Why even bother?

Conversely, then why even worry?  What more could they do but split the Liberal vote?  And how is that a bad thing?

Not surprising, given that it is a rightwards attack dog against Québec solidaire. Ironically, so are the relooking of the PQ and the rightwing of ON that is trying to take over the discredited Parti indépendantiste.  Obviously the bourgeois press will spotlight attempts to undermine a genuinely left party that has achieved some credibility and electoral support. Like duh...

Oh, I don't contest their absolute right to do what they want (not only the far left or alternative left are sectarian splitters and wreckers) but am just pointing out why the establishment press would jump on the story.

I suppose that the Dems could be considered "left" against the most recent knuckle-dragging incarnations of the GOP, but they are certainly not a "left" or anti-establishment party, far from it.