Rachel Notley VS John Horgan Round One

27 posts / 0 new

Wed, 2018-01-31 16:07

Mighty Middle

“It is so far beyond the scope of what they have the legal authority to do, they (NDP BC Premier John Horgan) are creating a MOCKERY out of our legal system,” an angry Rachel Notley told reporters in Edmonton.

“The B.C. government has every right to consult on whatever it pleases with its citizens. It does not have the right to rewrite our Constitution and assume powers for itself that it does not have. If it did, our confederation would be meaningless.”

Have we ever seen one NDP Premier threaten to take another NDP Premier to court?

Alberta Premier Rachel Notley has threatened to retaliate economically against what she called an "unconstitutional" move by the B.C. government to delay construction of the Trans Mountain pipeline expansion.

Notley has already vowed to take legal action against the B.C. government, which on Tuesday proposed new restrictions on shipments of bitumen that would flow through the expanded pipeline from Alberta to the West Coast.

On Wednesday, Notley called an emergency cabinet meeting to discuss Alberta's options to strike back in what has become a super-heated battle with the NDP government in B.C.

"The B.C. government took this action with no provocation and almost no warning," Notley said. "The government of Alberta will not, we cannot, let this unconstitutional attack on jobs and working people stand."

Though Notley said she has "every expectation" that the B.C. government will act within the law, her government has already made preparations for possible legal and economic responses should that not be the case.

"Specifically, last summer, I asked officials to begin work on polishing the tools in our toolbox," Notley said. "And so today, I would like us all to discuss how best to use those tools to stand up for Albertans and for their jobs.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/alberta-bc-crude-restrictions-kin...

Tue, 2018-02-06 18:30

Mighty Middle

Alberta Premier Rachel Notley says the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission will halt all imports of B.C. wine.

Tue, 2018-02-06 20:27

josh

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/report-on-business/alberta-to-stop-importing-bc-wine-in-dispute-over-trans-mountain-pipeline-expansion-notley/article37879749/?__twitter_impression=true

Wed, 2018-02-07 01:06

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Let them drink Rothschild! France 1, Canada 0.

Wed, 2018-02-07 02:21

Pogo

Do you think they contacted WWF to help choreograph this fight. They both get to play the angry hero.

Wed, 2018-02-07 02:34

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Attention BC and Alberta! What you don't want from each other, you can always get from us.

Love from Quebec.

Wed, 2018-02-07 19:16

Mighty Middle

Jagmeet Singh says that this fight between Notley and Horgan is 100% Justin Trudeau fault, full stop.

Wed, 2018-02-07 19:59

Mr. Magoo

NDP government vs. NDP government in a brutal, straight-razor fight to the death.

Whose wet dream in a warm bed is this?

Wed, 2018-02-07 20:28

kropotkin1951

Poor Notley is likely getting advice from Moe Sihota. Thank god him and Georgetti moved to Alberta.

Thu, 2018-02-08 05:29

(Reply to #9) #10

josh

Mr. Magoo wrote:

NDP government vs. NDP government in a brutal, straight-razor fight to the death.

Whose wet dream in a warm bed is this?

Yours maybe?

Thu, 2018-02-08 05:32

(Reply to #10) #11

josh

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Poor Notley is likely getting advice from Moe Sihota. Thank god him and Georgetti moved to Alberta.

She’s operating out of political self-interest. With a unified right now her oppositi9n. May not agree with it, but it’s the correct move for political survival.

Thu, 2018-02-08 08:45

(Reply to #11) #12

Unionist

josh wrote:

She’s operating out of political self-interest. With a unified right now her oppositi9n. May not agree with it, but it’s the correct move for political survival.

I see. So the NDP in opposition campaigns to beat the right (or they used to anyway). Once in government, the war cry changes: "Now that we've beat 'em - let's join 'em!"

Glad to see all Alberta parties now in a united coalition. Bitumenunity.

Thu, 2018-02-08 10:13

#13

josh

Alberta is a unique case. And again, I'm not saying it's correct on the merits, just that I can understand the politics.

Thu, 2018-02-08 10:39

(Reply to #13) #14

Unionist

josh wrote:

Alberta is a unique case. And again, I'm not saying it's correct on the merits, just that I can understand the politics.

I never accused her of being politically stupid - although history shows that when the NDP tries to out-right the right, the voters just drift over to the real right, rather than settle for the cheap knock-off. Already Jason Kenney has tweeted out his support for her boycott. Watch out, Rachel.

No, my disagreement with her is over the notion that people in B.C., or Québec, or anywhere, should assume the environmental risk for keeping her voters employed and their foreign bosses drowning in profits.

#Bitumenunity #Winotley

Thu, 2018-02-08 12:19

#15

quizzical

social interactions are pretty bitter between pro and anti pipeline people all spurred on by the conservative cyber war room.

i see the politics of Rachel's move. long term gain for the people of AB or short term drama that is decided by others in the first place.

mom is furious and stated all this drama could have been prevented if Rachel had just built a refinery. thinks short term polical thinking is at fault.

Thu, 2018-02-08 12:57

#16

kropotkin1951

Of course if Alberta wants a war.

Thu, 2018-02-08 13:01

(Reply to #16) #17

kropotkin1951

josh wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Poor Notley is likely getting advice from Moe Sihota. Thank god him and Georgetti moved to Alberta.

She’s operating out of political self-interest. With a unified right now her oppositi9n. May not agree with it, but it’s the correct move for political survival.

That attitude is what kept the BC NDP in the wilderness for four elections and Moe is the poster boy for backroom dealing that is supposed to be brillant but then blows up in his face. As Unionist said when the voters want to chose a right wing party they chose the people who aren't trying to pretend they are something they are not.

Thu, 2018-02-08 21:43

#18

Martin N.

You just can't make this stuff up. Did Hayman pull a fast one on Horgan? Did Horgan not read the fine print? In their haste to suck up to the Greenweaver and his whackadoodle henchpeople, the NDP is now all ill fitting Christmas sweater and no trousers.

If Canada had an actual Prime Minister rather than a narcissistic frat boy, this entertaining debacle would be short lived but with Trendy.2, anything is possible. Except for the global ridicule thingy, which non-Trudashian admiring adults may concern themselves with, Canadians not named John Horgan are in for a treat.

Thu, 2018-02-08 21:49

(Reply to #18) #19

Martin N.

kropotkin1951 wrote:

josh wrote:

kropotkin1951 wrote:

Poor Notley is likely getting advice from Moe Sihota. Thank god him and Georgetti moved to Alberta.

She’s operating out of political self-interest. With a unified right now her oppositi9n. May not agree with it, but it’s the correct move for political survival.

That attitude is what kept the BC NDP in the wilderness for four elections and Moe is the poster boy for backroom dealing that is supposed to be brillant but then blows up in his face. As Unionist said when the voters want to chose a right wing party they chose the people who aren't trying to pretend they are something they are not.

John Horgan and the saner members of his government will create a fine government, given the chance. Getting rid of the theatre of the absurd - the sucking up to the Greenweaver et al - is necessary to bring attention to governance, not drama. BC needs an election.

Thu, 2018-02-08 22:05

#20

Pondering

In a decade Harper failed to get a pipeline through. Trudeau will also fail but there is no action he can take at this moment. He can't stop Horgan from talking. It is still before the courts.

The BC NDP is doing exactly what they were elected to do. Protecting the province.

Fri, 2018-02-09 08:10

(Reply to #20) #21

Martin N.

Pondering wrote:

In a decade Harper failed to get a pipeline through. Trudeau will also fail but there is no action he can take at this moment. He can't stop Horgan from talking. It is still before the courts.

The BC NDP is doing exactly what they were elected to do. Protecting the province.

Except that they were not elected, they are attempting to usurp federal jurisdiction and they are frustrating a legal project with political jiggers-pokery.

If you think this mayhem will 'protect' BC, you need to inform yourself. Notwithstanding a very noisy minority, BC still supports this project. That has not changes since Adrian Dix fell on his sword.

Fri, 2018-02-09 09:56

(Reply to #21) #22

Pondering

Martin N. wrote:
Except that they were not elected, they are attempting to usurp federal jurisdiction and they are frustrating a legal project with political jiggers-pokery.

NDP representatives were elected as were the Green representatives. The way our system works is that the members of the house select the leader which is usually the leader whose party won the most seats. In this case the majority of elected representatives did not have faith in the Liberal leader.

Martin N. wrote:
If you think this mayhem will 'protect' BC, you need to inform yourself. Notwithstanding a very noisy minority, BC still supports this project. That has not changes since Adrian Dix fell on his sword.

Not the people who live along the pipeline route. The majority of those oppose it and I think they feel a lot more strongly than the supporters do and that matters. There are also a lot of undecided.

Legally the project is still before the courts despite the federal government's decision. Furthermore the government serves at the pleasure of the people even between elections. I don't know if enough people in BC are willing to stand in front of bulldozers to prevent the project from being completed but if there are 10,000 people willing to be arrested the project can be stopped. Furthermore, any delays increase the chances the oil companies will pull out.

After their sudden cold feet on Keystone XL I'm not convinced they even want another pipeline or will a few years down the road. If they admit that they have reached maximum production in the oil sands and don't want to invest more because the price of oil doesn't warrant it their share values will drop like a stone and governments will come running for clean-up costs. When they go belly-up the CEOs and execs will get massive "retention bonuses" to shut them down.

Maybe they are willing to twin Trans Mountain but that doesn't mean they expect it to still be using it in 20 years.

Fri, 2018-02-09 21:11

(Reply to #22) #23

Martin N.

Pondering wrote:

Martin N. wrote:
Except that they were not elected, they are attempting to usurp federal jurisdiction and they are frustrating a legal project with political jiggers-pokery.

NDP representatives were elected as were the Green representatives. The way our system works is that the members of the house select the leader which is usually the leader whose party won the most seats. In this case the majority of elected representatives did not have faith in the Liberal leader.

Martin N. wrote:
If you think this mayhem will 'protect' BC, you need to inform yourself. Notwithstanding a very noisy minority, BC still supports this project. That has not changes since Adrian Dix fell on his sword.

Not the people who live along the pipeline route. The majority of those oppose it and I think they feel a lot more strongly than the supporters do and that matters. There are also a lot of undecided.

Legally the project is still before the courts despite the federal government's decision. Furthermore the government serves at the pleasure of the people even between elections. I don't know if enough people in BC are willing to stand in front of bulldozers to prevent the project from being completed but if there are 10,000 people willing to be arrested the project can be stopped. Furthermore, any delays increase the chances the oil companies will pull out.

After their sudden cold feet on Keystone XL I'm not convinced they even want another pipeline or will a few years down the road. If they admit that they have reached maximum production in the oil sands and don't want to invest more because the price of oil doesn't warrant it their share values will drop like a stone and governments will come running for clean-up costs. When they go belly-up the CEOs and execs will get massive "retention bonuses" to shut them down.

Maybe they are willing to twin Trans Mountain but that doesn't mean they expect it to still be using it in 20 years.

With respect, Pondering, please inform yourself on these issues outside of your confirmation biases. Try different sources of oil demand expectations out to 2040. Examine the polling on the issue - do British Columbians want this project or not? Just examine the facts without expectation of a predetermined outcome. Use you're critical thinking capabilities to come to your own conclusion - yours, not the siren songs of the manipulators, both pro and con attempting to influence the lazy minds and the downright stupid.

Fri, 2018-02-09 21:59

#24

NDPP

Revealed : Trudeau Government Welcomed Oil Lobby Help For US Pipeline Push

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/true-north/2018/feb/09/trudeau-g...

"Canadian government viewed Trump's election as 'positive news' for Keystone XL and energy industry..."

Remember Dan Gagnier?

Fri, 2018-02-09 23:46

(Reply to #24) #25

Pondering

Martin N. wrote:

With respect, Pondering, please inform yourself on these issues outside of your confirmation biases. Try different sources of oil demand expectations out to 2040. Examine the polling on the issue - do British Columbians want this project or not? Just examine the facts without expectation of a predetermined outcome. Use you're critical thinking capabilities to come to your own conclusion - yours, not the siren songs of the manipulators, both pro and con attempting to influence the lazy minds and the downright stupid.

There is plenty of oil to satisfy world demand. Saudi Arabia and OPEC will drop their prices to drive Alberta out of business. They don't really have any choice. Oil is all they have.

I've examined the polling:

http://www.metronews.ca/news/vancouver/2017/09/26/poll-finds-support-for...

In the first poll on premiers’ performances conducted by the Angus Reid Institute since John Horgan’s NDP government took power in B.C., 47 per cent of people said Kinder Morgan’s $7.4-billion project should go ahead as planned, compared to the 33 per cent who believe it should be scrapped.

That leaves 20% undecided. 47% is pretty close to majority support but strength of feeling matters. I don't think that 47% is willing to get out there and protest in favor of the pipeline.

This rides on the number of people willing to physically blockade the route. I have no idea how many people that is. I could very easily be overestimating. If it is hundreds of people, or even just a couple of thousand, then the pipeline can be forced through. It depends on how many people they would have to jail.

Don't forget there are still the court cases. Nothing will happen until those are settled. Unless the oil companies withdraw in advance we won't have the final showdown until shovels are in the ground. Then we will know.

Sat, 2018-02-10 01:08

(Reply to #25) #26

progressive17 progressive17's picture

Martin N. wrote:

Pondering wrote:

Martin N. wrote:
Except that they were not elected, they are attempting to usurp federal jurisdiction and they are frustrating a legal project with political jiggers-pokery.

NDP representatives were elected as were the Green representatives. The way our system works is that the members of the house select the leader which is usually the leader whose party won the most seats. In this case the majority of elected representatives did not have faith in the Liberal leader.

Martin N. wrote:
If you think this mayhem will 'protect' BC, you need to inform yourself. Notwithstanding a very noisy minority, BC still supports this project. That has not changes since Adrian Dix fell on his sword.

Not the people who live along the pipeline route. The majority of those oppose it and I think they feel a lot more strongly than the supporters do and that matters. There are also a lot of undecided.

Legally the project is still before the courts despite the federal government's decision. Furthermore the government serves at the pleasure of the people even between elections. I don't know if enough people in BC are willing to stand in front of bulldozers to prevent the project from being completed but if there are 10,000 people willing to be arrested the project can be stopped. Furthermore, any delays increase the chances the oil companies will pull out.

After their sudden cold feet on Keystone XL I'm not convinced they even want another pipeline or will a few years down the road. If they admit that they have reached maximum production in the oil sands and don't want to invest more because the price of oil doesn't warrant it their share values will drop like a stone and governments will come running for clean-up costs. When they go belly-up the CEOs and execs will get massive "retention bonuses" to shut them down.

Maybe they are willing to twin Trans Mountain but that doesn't mean they expect it to still be using it in 20 years.

With respect, Pondering, please inform yourself on these issues outside of your confirmation biases. Try different sources of oil demand expectations out to 2040. Examine the polling on the issue - do British Columbians want this project or not? Just examine the facts without expectation of a predetermined outcome. Use you're critical thinking capabilities to come to your own conclusion - yours, not the siren songs of the manipulators, both pro and con attempting to influence the lazy minds and the downright stupid.

There will be demand for heroin and cocaine out until 2040. Should Alberta produce those as well?

Mon, 2018-02-19 22:08

#27

Mighty Middle

B.C. Issues Formal Challenge Against Alberta's Wine Ban

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2018/02/19/bc-alberta-wine-ban-challenge_a_...

It’s in BC's power to put this issue to rest. They can follow the law & halt their campaign to harass the TMP - or they can pretend they are a separate country with powers to make whatever laws they want with no regard for the Constitution or views and rights of other Canadians.

- Rachel Notley (@RachelNotley)

With the largest investments in housing and childcare in BC history coming in Tuesday's budget, we're taking steps to make life more affordable. We'll also continue to stand up for #BCWine and stand firm in our duty to defend our economy, environment and our coast. #bcpoli

— John Horgan (@jjhorgan)