Trudeau calls Quebec byelection in Chicoutimi-Le Fjord for June 18

So two wrongs make a right?

And after all, Trudeau is Canada's Pipeline King, because against the wishes of many progressive Canadians, Trudeau bot a pipeline with our money.

PS I agree Sean.

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

It's settling in to a 50%-30% race with the Cons clearly showing massive strength. Don't underestimate Gauthier in Quebec! 

http://enr.elections.ca/ElectoralDistricts.aspx?lang=e

gadar wrote:

 

 

 

2015 results Con 17 Liberal 31 NDP 30 Bloc 21 

Today  Con 52 Liberal 29 NDP 9 Bloc 6

 Con up 35 Liberal down 2 NDP down 21 Bloc down 15

The votes collapsed for NDP and Bloc and went to the Con. 

I am an NDP supporter and find nothing to cheer for in this result. How does an NDP sympathiser find any good thing in this result. 

Go NDP Go Singh. Dont let this bog you down, you are only 12 points away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

No NDP supporter is happy with this result.  

And enough already with the "Go Singh" thing.  The NDP doesn't worship Singh like a god-in fact, he's received no greater deference than any other leader the party's ever had.   All that has happened is that Singh's been given the same chance any other incoming party leader would have received.   

And if you feel you have to vote Liberal to stop a Con taking YOUR riding(what riding do you live in, btw), that's your call.  Quit acting like you're being persecuted here for saying you were open to strategic voting-you never were.  All you got were people doing the same back-and-forth that happens on ALL message boards.  It's not as though the rest of us are responsible for one person calling you "a loser".  

Do what you want.  You're not a freaking martyr to anything.

You're not the only person who cares about keeping Scheer out of power.

Ken Burch wrote:

gadar wrote:

2015 results Con 17 Liberal 31 NDP 30 Bloc 21 

Today  Con 52 Liberal 29 NDP 9 Bloc 6

 Con up 35 Liberal down 2 NDP down 21 Bloc down 15

The votes collapsed for NDP and Bloc and went to the Con. 

I am an NDP supporter and find nothing to cheer for in this result. How does an NDP sympathiser find any good thing in this result. 

Go NDP Go Singh. Dont let this bog you down, you are only 12 points away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

No NDP supporter is happy with this result.  

And enough already with the "Go Singh" thing.  The NDP doesn't worship Singh like a god-in fact, he's received no greater deference than any other leader the party's ever had.   All that has happened is that Singh's been given the same chance any other incoming party leader would have received.   

And if you feel you have to vote Liberal to stop a Con taking YOUR riding(what riding do you live in, btw), that's your call.  Quit acting like you're being persecuted here for saying you were open to strategic voting-you never were.  All you got were people doing the same back-and-forth that happens on ALL message boards.  It's not as though the rest of us are responsible for one person calling you "a loser".  

Do what you want.  You're not a freaking martyr to anything.

You're not the only person who cares about keeping Scheer out of power.

Ken you dont like my post you dont have to read it or reply to it. Stop lecturing me.

I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

I am not discussing strategic voting in my post. It actually looks like there was strategic voting here and people voted strategically against the Liberal candidate. I wish they had voted for the NDP candidate instead, but they preferred the Con , oh well.

I am talking about the byelection result and how the vote for NDP collapsed. And no true NDPer would find anything to cheer about that. If nobody finds a cheer in that, thats good.

Quit like you are being persecuted somehow. I have not said anything bad about one person or "the rest of you" whoever that is.

Go NDP Go Singh You are only 12 percent away from sitting opposite PM Scheer.

Singh better start spending a lot more time in Quebec!

The headlines 

"NDP, which won riding in 2011, sees near total collapse of vote from past two elections"

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chicoutimi-le-fjord-byelection-result-1....

The byelection result is further evidence of the NDP's decline in Quebec, a decline which began with the 2015 election and has continued, remorselessly, since Singh assumed the leadership.  

If Singh remains at the helm the NDP can expect to lose most of its remaining seats in Quebec and probably sustain losses elsewhere.  Love and courage indeed--the Party's going need both in spades the way things are headed!  The pity is that the Liberals are increasingly vulnerable to a forceful and intelligent critique from the left.  Instead the Party has a leader whose image, however unfairly, suggests a preoccupation with identity and diaspora politics. 

Time for Singh to step down.  Bring on Guy Caron. 

I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh. 

 

Gadar, you've been asked to stop derailing threads. Your antics are, at best, unhelpful and don't contribute to any kind of meaningful discussion. I don't care if you're here to promote strategic voting or if you have a shrine to Singh in your basement (now there's a creepy thought), just stop.

MegB wrote:

Gadar, you've been asked to stop derailing threads. Your antics are, at best, unhelpful and don't contribute to any kind of meaningful discussion. I don't care if you're here to promote strategic voting or if you have a shrine to Singh in your basement (now there's a creepy thought), just stop.

I hope the same standard applies to everybody. Why me acknowledging facts is derailing a thread while twisting facts is somehow acceptable.

R.E.Wood wrote:

Coldwell wrote:

The byelection result is further evidence of the NDP's decline in Quebec, a decline which began with the 2015 election and has continued, remorselessly, since Singh assumed the leadership.  

If Singh remains at the helm the NDP can expect to lose most of its remaining seats in Quebec and probably sustain losses elsewhere.  Love and courage indeed--the Party's going need both in spades the way things are headed!  The pity is that the Liberals are increasingly vulnerable to a forceful and intelligent critique from the left.  Instead the Party has a leader whose image, however unfairly, suggests a preoccupation with identity and diaspora politics. 

Time for Singh to step down.  Bring on Guy Caron. 

Great post, Caldwell. But Singh won't step down until after the coming defeat of the next election (like the credit card commercials, the NDP shouldn't ask "Can we afford another leadership campaign at this point?" but rather "Can we afford not to?")... anyway, we'll see which MP's are left to pick up the pieces of the NDP at that point, and I'll re-assess whether the next version of the NDP is something I can support.

Yeah, Singh's not going anywhere until after the election.  Maybe then the powers that be will realize that substance, not style, is what is needed.  Particularly on economic issues.  And that economic issues must be the party's number one priority.

And maybe if Erin Weir is re-elected, the NDP can welcome him back.  And elect him leader as an apology.  ;)

NorthReport wrote:

What's going on here is just the usual Liberal panicking one year prior to the next election as they watch their fortunes with the Pipeline King PM going South. 

re: Pipeline King

Again, if you think pipelines are the reason people are turning against the Liberals(and if not, I have to wonder why you've latched onto that nickname), how come anti-pipeline parties didn't do better in the byelection?

voice of the damned wrote:

bekayne wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

Don't confuse him with facts.

Kind of reminds me of when the Liberal Jim Coutts lost Spadina to the New Democrat Dan Heap in 1981, the height of western alienation. I knew right-wing Albertans who were cheering the Liberal loss, even though Heap was even more inamicable to their perceived interests than Coutts, and the riding of Spadina was certainly not one that cared a whit about the kind of issues that motivated the freeze-in-the-dark-crowd(or if it did, was on the polar opposite end of the debate).  

Part of the right-wing glee about Coutts losing was that he was an Albertan by birth(IIRC, he'd sat as an Alberta Liberal MLA at one point in the early Sixties).

This result is about the transactional nature of Quebec politics.  A lot of Quebecers, even among the majority who seem to be federalist at this point, see Quebec as being in an "us against them" relationship to the rest of Canada.  Consequently, politics for a lot of these folks are rarely about issues or ideology, but about which major party is offering the best "deal" for Quebec.  At this point, they probably believe, for whatever reasons, that Scheer offers Quebec the best "deal".  They see the Bloc as a party experiencing a Creditiste-like long, slow death(I'm thinking they see the Bloc as more or less in the same shape as the Ralliement was in early 1979), they see the NDP as a party that won't be close to being in government anytime soon, if ever, and Justin as a guy who had his chance and seems to be muffing it.   With their willingness to appease the soft sovereigntists and their natural alliance with the Quebec corporate elite, the Cons look like the party that would give Quebec the "best deal". 

If none of the other parties can find an effective response to this, there's a good chance that the Cons could have the kind of sweep the PC's had in Quebec in 1958, 1984 and 1988(a year when the PC's GAINED seats in Quebec despite experiencing an overall loss of 40 from the previous election).

Ken Burch wrote:

voice of the damned wrote:

bekayne wrote:

robbie_dee wrote:

The Conservatives also support pipelines.

Don't confuse him with facts.

Kind of reminds me of when the Liberal Jim Coutts lost Spadina to the New Democrat Dan Heap in 1981, the height of western alienation. I knew right-wing Albertans who were cheering the Liberal loss, even though Heap was even more inamicable to their perceived interests than Coutts, and the riding of Spadina was certainly not one that cared a whit about the kind of issues that motivated the freeze-in-the-dark-crowd(or if it did, was on the polar opposite end of the debate).  

Part of the right-wing glee about Coutts losing was that he was an Albertan by birth(IIRC, he'd sat as an Alberta Liberal MLA at one point in the early Sixties).

His wiki page doesn't mention anything about his being an MLA in Alberta. Going by his electoral history, he never ran provicially.

But there might have indeed been the quisling factor at work in right-wingers cheering his loss.

CAQ provincially, and CPC federally. By a wide margin. A clear message from the people of Chicoutimi. Fuck the Left, fuck Sovereignists, fuck Liberals, and fuck everyone else just for good measure. As the NDP, Liberals, Greens, and Bloc will all be running a full slate in the federal, and as the Liberals, QS, NDPQ, Greens and PCQ will all be running slates in Quebec, it is CPC and CAQ all the way. The right has unity, and the left does not.

As the PCPO had a strong lead for many months going into the recent Ontario election, there is nothing Couillard can do about the CAQ. For sure, his government has been a lot cleaner than previous Liberal ones, but as Wynne showed, it does not matter how much you try to clean yourself up during a term in power, you will be ruthlessly punished anyway. 

Jack Layton worked like a dog in Quebec on top of being able to communicate in local French. People in Quebec actually liked Jack Layton, and Jack took every opportunity to tell people in Quebec he wanted their votes, and why. The NDP did not win in Quebec because it was the NDP, it won because it was led by Jack Layton. Mulcair was a Liberal, and people said, "Oh well I might as well vote Liberal and get the real thing." Now Oil Trudeau is acting like a Conservative w.r.t. the pipelines, people are going to say "I might as well vote Conservative and get the real thing".

Hmm, how do we solve this problem? Feynman diagrams might work. Oh look! >-+-<! Two ears, two eyes, and no mouth. Might work for a while. Or how about join the PCQ. "You want Duplessis? We are the ones who brought him to you! No one knows how to do unto you, as you would not do unto others, as we do!

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh.

If they haven't been banned, you're actually allowed to name them.

Will you name them?  Can we see for ourselves who you're talking about?

I think he's talking about people like Hunky Monkey...the guy who just couldn't let it go that Niki Ashton said the word "intersectionality".  There were two or three others heavy-handedly pushing the "it HAS to be Singh" narrative, treating everybody else like they were stupid children if they dared to support any other candidate.  

Mr. Magoo wrote:

Quote:

I also note how the strongest Singh supporters (and, conversely, the loudest bashers of the other candidates) that were around Rabble during the leadership campaign have disappeared. I'd say that was odd, but I don't think it is. I don't think they were ever here as a part of this "community", I think they just passed through long enough to bash Ashton and Angus ( and Caron to a lesser extent) and blind a few more people into voting for the shiny Singh.

If they haven't been banned, you're actually allowed to name them.

Will you name them?  Can we see for ourselves who you're talking about?

I will single out Hunky Monkey, certainly. He was vicious and rude against all the other candidates, but was absolutely awful to Ashton, in particular. He was loudly pro-Singh, stomping on anyone else's opinions. And he doesn't appear to be posting here anymore (or at least I've not seen the posts if he has been). I think his method of campaigning is rather Trumpian - crush the opponents and their supporters, and give the impression that your candidate - and only your candidate - has any chance of winning. Wait a minute... that was Singh's approach, too.

What neither Singh NOR his supporters ever seemed to get is that, once he won the leadership election, it was on him and on his supporters to reach out to and connect with the supporters of other leadership candidates, it was on him to make it clear that the ideas of the other candidates would have some sort of place in what he was doing, and it was on him and them to make it clear that they understand that the NDP is a coalition as much as a party, and that in a coalition there must be mutual respect at all times.

This didn't happen.

Instead, the whole tone seems to have been "I won-now, everybody needs to just obey me".

Sean in Ottawa wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

What neither Singh NOR his supporters ever seemed to get is that, once he won the leadership election, it was on him and on his supporters to reach out to and connect with the supporters of other leadership candidates, it was on him to make it clear that the ideas of the other candidates would have some sort of place in what he was doing, and it was on him and them to make it clear that they understand that the NDP is a coalition as much as a party, and that in a coalition there must be mutual respect at all times.

This didn't happen.

Instead, the whole tone seems to have been "I won-now, everybody needs to just obey me".

Yes -- but I would use other words than coalition as well -- it is a movement and that implies coalition and the need to be activist rather than managerial. The others I put up as potential future replacements are people who understand being activist.

The NDP is not a franchise store.

OK, I take your point.  

Pondering wrote:

gadar wrote:

 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing).  Also, I think he feels irrational bitterness towards North Report for some reason, and expressed this by spending about two weeks in a row imitating North's posting style in the way a school bully mimicks the way a younger kid on the playground said one thing the wrong way one time, and keeps doing so until the littler kid either cries or throws a punch at him, because once the littler kid has thrown the punch, the bully, according to the schoolyard playground version of the Marquis of Queensbury rules, then has an absolute right to beat the little kid to a bloody pulp with impunity and claim that the beating was self-defense because "he started it".

I think it's really, really like that with gadar, and that he's not going to stop until he's absolutely forced to.

gadar wrote:

Ken Burch wrote:

Pondering wrote:

gadar wrote:

 I worship Singh. I am free to do that.

You don't support Singh. You are mocking people who do. There are lots of NDP supporters who don't support Singh but they don't mock those who do. They present their arguments. I do recognize your hatred of Singh could be rooted in something you can't admit publicly which would explain why you are limited to mocking. 

In his case it's hatred of the NDP in general, and bitterness at his inability to convert everybody else here to the idea of "strategic voting"(i.e., the "you HAVE to vote Liberal, no matter what, just to stop the Cons" thing).  Also, I think he feels irrational bitterness towards North Report for some reason, and expressed this by spending about two weeks in a row imitating North's posting style in the way a school bully mimicks the way a younger kid on the playground said one thing the wrong way one time, and keeps doing so until the littler kid either cries or throws a punch at him, because once the littler kid has thrown the punch, the bully, according to the schoolyard playground version of the Marquis of Queensbury rules, then has an absolute right to beat the little kid to a bloody pulp with impunity and claim that the beating was self-defense because "he started it".

I think it's really, really like that with gadar, and that he's not going to stop until he's absolutely forced to.

Wow.

Yeah.  It is amazing that you've dragged this out and won't let it go.

I am free to support who I want to so Go NDP Go Singh. (I dont know how this is bullying). Threatening to "absolutely force somebody" when they had already stopped on the other hand comes very close.