Thailand

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Thailand

"It most closely resembles 1992, when there were shootings of students by the military.

This is an extraordinary situation because people here believe that the government is simply not telling the truth in television reports, they are looking out on to the streets themselves.

They do not believe the military's line that it is trying to end the stand-off peacefully.

Killings alleged

A lot of people believe that the military have killed people."

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2009/04/20094131499900774...

from this and other articles at the news site, it appears many demonstrators are encircled by the army and there is concern that the military will continue to kill those they've entrapped, during the night or the next few days.

my understanding of the situation in Thailand is that the current ruler is making life very difficult for the rural poor, and protesters have sought to have a new election.

when protesters were attacked by military, they tried to defend themselves, using buses parked to block military from shooting at them.  all we're hearing on the news in this country that the 'benevolent' ruler of Thailand is responding 'peacefully' to aggressive 'red shirts'. 

the spin is unbelievable.  media have turned old fears of 'reds' into new demons. 

not just in the Thai situation, but in situations around the world.

it seems though that many 'reds' today acknowledge the abuses of 'reds' in the past. 

'reds' today cannot be equated with 'reds' of the past.

in fact, many 'reds' today are fighting for the self-determination and relief from dictators, poverty, assault and starvation that 'blues' once fought for.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ze

[url=http://facthai.wordpress.com/]Freedom Against Censorship Thailand[/url]

thanks

thanks Ze for that alternative source for news about Thailand.

it seems from Al Jazeera reports today that out of fear for the safety of demonstrators, protest leaders called off further action, for now.

apparently there are eyewitness reports of many dead protesters being carried away by the military, the bodies put in trucks, to avoid media getting word that the military had not simply 'shot into the air with blanks' but shot point blank at peaceful demonstrators.

it's a rich vs. poor issue.  the rich got 'yellow shirts' to demonstrate a few months ago at airports, leading to the ousting of Thaksin who was elected in a landslide.  Thaksin supported programs for the rural poor.  Thaksin got ousted by a lousy court decision which changed the makeup of parliament, now filled with those who dance to the tune of the rich.  Their dictator is calling for Thaksin's arrest.

so popular elected officials get manipulated out of office, criminalized, and their supporters get killed.

Thaksin's supporters say they will not give up their effort to get their legitimate leader reinstated.  Good for them.

The least our media here could do would be to report the actual story, and not the story dictated by the rich powers who want to pillage the countryside and its resources. 

It's the same story the world over.

 

 

 

thanks

meanwhile, the Ottawa Citizen implies through blame that demonstrators will be the cause of the economic crisis in the country!

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Travel/Thai+demonstrators+halt+deadly+prote...

what a joke.

i suppose the global economic situation doesn't have anything to do with the financiers and their puppets who disappeared multi-trillions in leveraged public funds.  and who continue to gather in useless forums to figure out how to squeeze us further.

Ze

Quote:
it's a rich vs. poor issue.  the rich got 'yellow shirts' to demonstrate a few months ago at airports, leading to the ousting of Thaksin who was elected in a landslide.

Not that the billionaire (and probably corrupt) Thaksin is any great hero of the poor, but that's pretty much how friends in Thailand describe the situation. Even the Economist points out that people keep voting for the policies championed by Thaksin, like better health care for the rural poor, and keep rejecting the agenda of the military and the current government. 

thanks

yup, that's what i hear too.

Ze

[url=http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/thousands-of-protesters-mass-i... are heating up again in Thailand[/url]

Quote:
The protesters accuse the country's elite — the military, judiciary and other unelected officials — of undermining the country's democracy and orchestrating a 2006 coup, in which Mr. Thaksin was ousted.

Mr. Thaksin's allies remained in power in the two successive governments, but were stymied by “yellow shirt” protesters and separate charges of conflict of interest and fraud, that were held up in court rulings.

The yellow shirts — who took to the streets last year shuttering Bangkok's two main airports — argue that voters in Mr. Thaksin's rural base are too easily bought.

Plenty of parallels with Iran and Honduras could be drawn.

NDPP

Thailand: US Sides With Increasingly Violent, Desperate Regime

http://nsnbc.me/2014/01/28/thailand-us-sides-increasingly-violent-desper...

"US State Department condemns protests against sham election, but ignores assassinations and thuggery aimed at opposition..."

compare and contrast with Ukraine

NDPP

Thailand: Vote Thaksin or Die (and vid)

http://landdestroyer.blogspot.ca/2014/02/thailand-vote-thaksin-or-die.html

"On eve of sham elections, regime openly threatens all who oppose it - literally with death.."

epaulo13 epaulo13's picture

Thailand’s Deep Divide

With popular singers belting out Queen’s “We are the Champions” and John Lennon’s “Imagine,” the enormous protests taking place against Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinwatra’s government have all the cultural luster of a progressive cause. Professional and highly educated people crowd the streets, and young people shout passionately against corruption. Middle class liberals around the world easily find much they can relate to.

But one thing about this movement bothers liberal analysts, including quite a few in the foreign press. The protesters appear to have lost faith in the key tenet of representative democracy: rule by people or parties elected by the majority of citizens....

http://fpif.org/thailands-deep-divide/

NDPP

Thailand in Danger: Watch Out For Yet Another Coup  -  by Andre Vltchek

http://rt.com/op-edge/thailand-coup-detat-army-212/

"At times, it all increasingly resembles the Kiev scenario, and remotely, the Caracas, Venezuela situation. If there is yet another military coup, one could easily draw a parallel between Egypt and Thailand.

Pro-Western elites are attacking an elected government, or they simply pay for such attacks. The West watches and does nothing, or it is supporting its old allies, the elites, from behind the scenes.."

NDPP

Thailand's Ousted PM Flees Abroad: The Rest Of The Story

https://t.co/S5BoFgu44a

"US regime change stalls but not stopped in ASEAN."

WWWTT

I’m going to make an update on Thailand and a rant!

Apparently there was an election there a couple months ago (thanks icm for saying shit fucking racist assholes!)

As it turns out, there electorate system has changed and is not entirely fptp. 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Thai_general_election

WWWTT

Now I’m not much on following different electorate systems. In particular, alternatives to fptf. But there are babblers that are really kean on this. And I haven’t read one single thing from any of you about the newly adopted Thai system? 

Is this because of ignorance? Due in part to the racist ICM. Is it because of straight racism? If it was s white country that adopted an alternate electoral system would posters here be discussing?

Is anyone here surprised or even care an Asian non white country changed their electoral system?

Now I really don’t follow Thailand politics or political parties  I have been to Bangkock, there are many Europeans Americans and Chinese there. Very rough town. And I used to criticize Fred Hahn for posting Thai government propaganda like this one on fb

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cZGghmwUcbQ

But really, I would think that if anyone was serious in discussing alternatives to fptp, maybe you better expand you parameters?

 

 

WWWTT

As a side note, I found out about the Thai elections from a XinHua article. 

cco

WWWTT wrote:

Is anyone here surprised or even care an Asian non white country changed their electoral system?

My rough summary of Thai politics over the past 20 years would be: Thais vote for Shinawatra or a Shinawatra proxy. The Thai military overthrows the government, bans the party, and holds another more carefully rigged election, advising the people to try again. Rinse, repeat. The fact this election has delivered a victory for junta-backed candidates isn't indicative of a groundswell for electoral reform in Southeast Asia, but rather of continuity in Thailand's long tradition of military rule.

WWWTT

Yes Thailand has a military coup every 7 or so years. 

But I posted a Wikipedia link that explains their 2017 electoral changes. 

Are you willing to look at it? Or is everyone just going to write the Thai people’s off and not even bother?

WWWTT

And to add, even if the military throws another coup, isn’t their recent changes still not worth taking s look at for those interested in fptp alternatives?

swallow swallow's picture

The media reported the Thai elections. They were rigged to keep the army in power, and leftists out. 

If these had been fair elections, then sure, a mix of FPTP and PR top-up seats is interesting as a model. In this case, the top-up seats have been manipulated to reduce the strength of the Pheu Thai/Future Forward bloc.

 

WWWTT

OK Swallow it sounds like you follow Thailand politics more than I at the very least. So when time permits I'll try to remember to read up on the subject. Thanks

NDPP

Alternative Thai News Network

http://altthainews.blogspot.com

WWWTT

Thanks for the link NDPP!

I pulled this out of one it’s articles. 

So favoured by the West is Thanathorn and his Future Forward Party, that when he was summoned by Thai police to hear charges against him, he was accompanied by over a dozen representatives of Western embassies including from the US, UK, Canada, Finland, the Netherlands, France, Germany and EU diplomats.

Ya Canada is trying to screw around the people of Thailand. 

Ken Burch Ken Burch's picture

WWWTT wrote:

Yes Thailand has a military coup every 7 or so years. 

But I posted a Wikipedia link that explains their 2017 electoral changes. 

Are you willing to look at it? Or is everyone just going to write the Thai people’s off and not even bother?

Thanks for bringing this to the attention of people on Rabble. I can see how it could look like it was Western dismissiveness, and we all need to be careful of falling into that, but most likely the problem on this board was that folks here simply hadn't heard of this.

There does seem to be a valid point here about the change in the electoral system not being brought in with democratic intent.

WWWTT

Yes Ken Burch I probably was a little too harsh. 

However you have probably noticed a pattern to some of the threads I create here. 

Edired to add

I didn’t create this thread because a Thailand thread already exists. 

 

swallow swallow's picture

Why do people here not know about the Thai elections? The Thai elections were reported on plenty in all sorts of media. The BBC and the Guardian and CBC seem to be the most popular mainstream sources for many here; all reported the Thai elections fully. Maybe people are just more interested in an obscure declining country called Britain to notice more significant countries’ politics? 

I am no fan of Future Forward, but the US definitely backs the current junta, not its opponents. However it is always in US capital’s interest to make sure that liberal opponents of military regimes are kept in reserve as possible US allies later on. 

One informed analysis of the election https://www.newmandala.org/explaining-the-surprises-and-upsets-of-thailands-2019-election/