Public-Funded Museums
Mon, 2007-05-14 05:05
#1
Public-Funded Museums
Mon, 2007-05-14 05:05
#2
I often think that we should have a history thread on babble, but since we don't, I'm going to post here.
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/arts_media.shtml?sh_itm=c0cd55dae8d0b8affe5e5efc8e3... Breon's article [/url] called "No moral qualms at War Museum" sheds some light on the issues facing a publically-funded institution, such as a museum or gallery. It begs the question how much of a role should public discourse/opinion play in the creation of new exhibits:
quote:
No such moral qualms have been raised so far against the temporary exhibition now running through January of next year entitled “AFGHANISTAN: A Glimpse of War” in which the CWM claims to “go beyond the headlines to capture Canada's participation in the international security mission in Afghanistan.”Featuring images by journalists Stephen Thorne and Garth Pritchard, the promotional and educational materials supporting the exhibit purport to “detail Canada's efforts to help Afghans rebuild a country shattered by war.”
But no mention of hot button headline grabbers like the recently exposed two-tiered “detainee transfer agreement” that renders prisoners captured by Canadians over to Afghan authorities who are accused of then subjecting them to brutal interrogation including torture.
Touring the exhibit recently with a group of Ottawa high school students, one couldn't help but be struck by the manipulation of pedagogical and didactic elements deployed (to use a military term) within the exhibit that would seem to indicate there is only one side to the story.
Bias in the media, and objectivity in the mainstream press are always hot-button issues, but what about opinion swaying exhibits at our museums and galleries? And should the Canadian War Museum (which I must admit I have never visited, though it was in my neck of the woods) be focusing on present-day conflict, or should it reflect mainly on the past?
This isn't the first controversy that the Canadian War Museum has faced. Only a year ago it came under fire by a group of veterens, this time over a portrayl of WWII. And it surely won't be the last.
quote:
And therein lies the contradiction not only within the exhibit but within the Canadian mission in Afghanistan. Where is the humanitarian assistance and the nation building? Look hard as you tour the rest of the exhibit to see the name of one NGO mentioned in detail along with the work they are doing. You won't find it.
[ 14 May 2007: Message edited by: jrose ]
Mon, 2007-05-14 08:27
#3
Maysie
Good thread topic, jrose.
quote:
opinion swaying exhibits at our museums and galleries? And should the Canadian War Museum (which I must admit I have never visited, though it was in my neck of the woods) be focusing on present-day conflict, or should it reflect mainly on the past?
I've never been to the CWM either, although my sweetie's mom worked there for years, and retired a while ago.
I'm kinda a drag to all my museum-loving friends and family, as I conceptualize museums (and large art galleries like the AGO) as showcasing stolen artifacts and propogating myths and lies about the history of Canada. When museum items are "purchased" like Sonya Bata of the Bata Shoe Museum, the exchange is simply laden with colonial exploitation and appropriation. This includes stolen FN items such as totem poles featured at the ROM, the National Gallery in Ottawa, and others.
As for the War Museum, I think we can safely assume that exhibits don't cover the ways in which soldiers, including Canadian soldiers, as well as Canadian "peacekeepers", routinely rape and abuse men and women in areas they're supposed to be "protecting". Anyone who wants something closer to the truth, or even a fuller verison of what happens in wars, is not advised to seek it out in a state-owned and -operated museum. Since the perspective of private museums would be even more suspect (Coming soon: the Conrad Black Museum of the History of Newspaper Publishing in Canada!) perhaps rethinking the concept of what purpose museums serve is in order.
Parts that have been left out of the Afghanistan exhibit isn't a surprise. I'm glad that some are making a fuss about what's been excluded, and the specious facts that are behind some of the claims. Whitewashing ain't pretty. Without the comfortable distance of history, realities of war are discomfitting, to say the least.
[ 14 May 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
Mon, 2007-05-14 10:15
#4
Its good to see that others share the views of what museums can or can not be in Canada. When the whole notion of a Museum of Human Rights was floated in Winnipeg by the Aspers, the first thing that came to my mind was the exploitation, fraud and theft of immigrants that went on in Winnipegs's garment industry with government (taxpayer) subsidies yet until in more modern times it all relocated to low wage countries overseas. The Museum of Human Rights here is a coverup for that exploitation, fraud and theft that was multi-hundreds of millions of dollars that ended up making multi-millionaires of its owners and more than likely on a more North American scale proped up the existance of Israel since it was given statehood by the UN in 1948.
Much thought has been given to why Canadians as a whole through elected government should publicly finance such a museum to the tune if over a hundred million dollars when its very foundation was the abuse of human rights and outright fraud and theft from exploited immigrants many of whom were just as abused and exploited themselves as those who benefitted most from the that industry and the multi-millions in money it provided. There are many who feel that Jewish interests could have paid for it and funded it all by themselves and given that they were supporting the human rights of others as of late that funding could have then been supported through public philanthropy and some government support afterward for work well done in the public interest.
There are those who think purely politically who put the Human Rights Museum as little more than a political payoff for political and monitary support given in the past from a community greatful for being given such breaks in prosperity as has happened in much of North America never mind Canada where half a world away Fascist and Nazni forces were bent on destroying a race out of jealously for being more successful than they were in carving out a living in a very anti-semetic world then that is shamefully still out there. Coupled with that is the arrogance of becoming so successful that grates on the minds of immgrants who got shafted. So where does it all stop?
It seems there will never be an answer as to what constitutes the "right and proper" museum and what it should or should not contain. It seems that any museum could be considered a snapshot in time and little more, to be taken with a grain of salt as there are other sides to other stories every time one is visted and seen.
Mon, 2007-05-14 10:33
#5
Maysie
Apologies for the thraed drift.
Proud, you say some problematic things:
quote:
There are many who feel that Jewish interests could have paid for it
and
quote:
Fascist and Nazni forces were bent on destroying a race out of jealously for being more successful than they were in carving out a living in a very anti-semetic world then that is shamefully still out there.
The second quote from your post above seems to be a garbled attempt to portray yourself as a progressive who isn't anti-Semitic, yet sadly, it fails. I call troll.
Mon, 2007-05-14 11:47
#6
I am very proud to say that my father and mother are both victims of Nazism. My mother at age 16 was taken as slave labour to Germany to build ME109 warplanes. She was starved to death and lucky to have survived. My father was a combatant who lost his country too. He was tatooed on both arms by the Nazis. One arm would not do. His back was painted with a shoot on sight symbol if he was found to be out of bounds in the concentration camps he survived and when liberated by the Americans was only 57 pounds in weight. Some of his friends he met there took bodies to the cematorias, they were just the same. My father had nightmares into the 1970s and his health and mental stability suffered all his life from what he had seen. They both gave us the freedoms many now have come to exploit under different banners. He was shocked to see that what happened back then was slowly over time also happening here. History has a way of repeating itself in different eras. Its no secret fascism has taken hold in the new world with some different players but its fascism is just the same though these days it can be rooted in economics. I dislike seeing cons being covered up by more cons. I detest seeing a modern world being taken advantage of by the same ideas but now with different players. Tell me that it just is not so? Just when are people who were not involved supposed to stop paying for the sins or conflicts of others? The world should never turn a blind eye to anti-semitism but by the same token just why are children the world today being made to pay for the sins of their parents and in the case where there was not history to begin with, why are those races never involved being made to pay to begin with? Answer those questions and maybe we can all come to some conclusions but somewhere the hypocracy has got to stop.
Mon, 2007-05-14 12:03
#7
Moderators notified. Babblers, please do not feed this thing any further.
Mon, 2007-05-14 12:35
#8
Hmmm. Based on this thread alone, I'm not so sure of the troll label. While Proudtobeadp is using problematic wording, s/he is referencing a hugely problematic federal proposal to set up a
[url=http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070420/humanrights... human rights museum in Winnipeg.[/url]
The museum is apparently the dream of the Asper family who originally conceived it as a holocaust memorial.
Opposition has come from many sides:
[url=http://www.canpalnet-ottawa.org/Holocaust_Museum.html]Susan Howard-Azzeh
Niagara Palestine Association [/url]
[url=http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/050701a.html]Lifesite[/url]
There were some interesting comments on the G&M site when the announcement was first made, but that seems to have disappeared behind a subscription wall.
edited for side scroll - sorry
[ 14 May 2007: Message edited by: siren ]
Mon, 2007-05-14 12:45
#9
remind
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
[b]Moderators notified. Babblers, please do not feed this thing any further.[/b]
Why have they been notified?
Mon, 2007-05-14 14:05
#10
quote:
Originally posted by remind:
[b]Why have they been notified?[/b]
Ummmm, because of a poster who started out by Quйbec-bashing in his first post, then union-bashing, then FN-bashing, then opposing "racial profile hiring" in Canada, then Canada-bashing (saying Canada is more oppressive than the U.S.) - and now Jew-baiting.
All that in under a dozen posts.
It's an all-time record.
Mon, 2007-05-14 14:17
#11
quote:
Originally posted by siren:
[b]Hmmm. Based on this thread alone, I'm not so sure of the troll label. [/b]
Really? How do you interpret the code about the garment industry - stuff like this:
quote:
...exploited immigrants many of whom were just as abused and exploited themselves as those who benefitted most from the that industry and the multi-millions in money it provided.
Duh.
Mon, 2007-05-14 14:33
#12
Guy used most the code words favoured by closet anti-Semites, I think Unionist is right here.
Mon, 2007-05-14 14:37
#13
This for example:
"It seems there will never be an answer as to what constitutes the "right and proper" museum and what it should or should not contain. It seems that any museum could be considered a snapshot in time and little more, to be taken with a grain of salt as there are other sides to other stories every time one is visted and seen"
Which 'museum' was he referring to and which 'side of the story' isn't being told? I think it's fairly self explanatory.
Mon, 2007-05-14 14:47
#14
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
[b]
which 'side of the story' isn't being told? [/b]
I think the one where the Nazi's were all about peace love and bunnies.
I third the motion, upon reading the post it does leave me with a strange feeling.
Mon, 2007-05-14 15:03
#15
I think most fit the profile, ya. Didn't take him long at all:
PtbNDP: "Problem is where have an assortment of criminal types in Canada and [i]in Canada we have laws that protect them too.[/i] These may be [i]the lawyers, doctors, judges, accountants[/i] and so on." (my italics)
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/babble/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic&f=1&t=006579]ht...
[ 14 May 2007: Message edited by: EriKtheHalfaRed ]
Mon, 2007-05-14 17:30
#16
Unionist is right. I've just reviewed proudtobe's other posts, and from the Quebec-bashing to whining about employment equity in the anti-racism forum, I think he'd be more at home elsewhere. It's obvious that he doesn't get what the mandate of this forum is.
Mon, 2007-05-14 18:16
#17
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
Really? How do you interpret the code about the garment industry - stuff like this:
quote:
Originally posted by EriKtheHalfaRed:
Guy used most the code words favoured by closet anti-Semites, I think Unionist is right here.
Huh. Well, I seem to be entirely out of the loop on that code.
I was just basing my input on the 2 posts here and seem to have missed what more sensitive readers can (still mysteriously to me -- "garment industry?) infer.
Michelle has made the decision so ...
How about that museum of human rights? Will it tell the story of women's suffrage? And if so, will it also include Harper's decision to take the phrase "equality" out of the mandate of
Status of Women Canada?
Mon, 2007-05-14 18:48
#18
remind
quote:
Originally posted by unionist:
[b]It's an all-time record.[/b]
Wow, and I only read this one, now I have to go and read all the rest.
Well, perhaps not, I seemed to have survived alright today without reading them, and seeing the record set, I am sure I can manage not reading them for the rest of my life too. [img]wink.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2007-05-16 09:22
#19
quote:
Originally posted by siren:
[b]
The museum is apparently the dream of the Asper family who originally conceived it as a holocaust memorial.Opposition has come from many sides:
[url=http://www.canpalnet-ottawa.org/Holocaust_Museum.html]Susan Howard-Azzeh
Niagara Palestine Association [/url][url=http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/jul/050701a.html]Lifesite[/url]
[/b]
I don't exactly agree with your analysis. What is wrong with the human rights museum having a focus on the Holocaust? It was one of the greatest genocides in human history and it clearly gave us the modern context for the idea of "human" rights today. That is to say, not women's rights, not black rights or Jewish rights, but the idea that as humans we all deserve these basic things.
I am disgusted you are quoting Lifesite, which incidentally objects to the Museum's planned exhibits on how the Charter has helped same-sex couples and gay and lesbian Canadians:
quote:
This secular temple will be a place for Canadian schoolchildren to be taught to marvel at their country’s ‘achievements’ in advancing what are questionably, if not outrageously, called ‘Human Rights’ since the implementation of the 1982 Charter. Mingling with legitimate exhibits about the internment of the Japanese in WWII and other true human rights violations justly mourned, will be exhibits championing reproductive ‘rights’, sexual ‘rights’, same-sex ‘rights’.
I find that totally abhorrent and am shocked you would cite Lifesite as a valid criticism of the Museum.
Susan Howard-Azzeh's letter is a more reasoned critique, just arguing that a museum that is only about the Holocaust isn't accurately titled a Human Rights museum, but I hope the government does not scrap the whole project. I hope the Museum instead can be lobbyed to broaden its scope to other human rights violations, especially ones that Canada has faced.
Lastly, I just want to say that regarding the Afghanistan exhibits, I have heard many complaints from right-wing quarters about what is being presented. As I understand it, there is a lot of military gear ripped up by roadside bombs on display. The presentation is meant to showcase the experience of the Canadian soldier. For the first time in generations, thousands of our fellow Canadians are on combat duty, and people are dying in a foreign country. People want to know their experiences, sadly, much more than the experiences of the Afghans. This is inherently a one-sided story, but the museum has no pretext that it is anything else. I want to take issue with the commenter above who said all Canadian forces have engaged in rape and torture - we don't know anything about this happening in Afghanistant and I don't think we should make accusations like that lightly. I do agree the War Museum should try to present another exhibit on the experiences of the Afghan people though.
Wed, 2007-05-16 11:41
#20
Maysie
quote:
pencil-skirt: I want to take issue with the commenter above who said all Canadian forces have engaged in rape and torture - we don't know anything about this happening in Afghanistant and I don't think we should make accusations like that lightly.
That was me.
I don't say that lightly. I say it because it's true. It's what soldiers do. The sooner we all stop constructing Canadian soldiers and so-called peacekeepers as kindler and gentler than U.S. soldiers the better.
Check out Sherene Razack's book "Dark Threats and White Knights : The Somalia Affair, Peacekeeping, and the New Imperialism" for more on this issue.
quote:
People want to know their (soldiers')experiences, sadly, much more than the experiences of the Afghans.
This of course proves my point above, thank you very much.
Edited to add: I never said "all" Canadian forces/soldiers.
[ 16 May 2007: Message edited by: bigcitygal ]
Wed, 2007-05-16 12:22
#21
N.Beltov
The planned Asper Museum in Winnipeg recently got more public funding from the Conservative government. This is a P3 or something like that - lots of public funding but very little public input as far as I can see.
Somehow I think that Palestinians will be criminalized and First Nations will be ignored. Call me cynical. It should be a good place for a Human Rights protest, though. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img]
Wed, 2007-05-16 14:48
#22
quote:
Originally posted by N.Beltov:
[b]lots of public funding but very little public input as far as I can see.Somehow I think that Palestinians will be criminalized and First Nations will be ignored. Call me cynical. It should be a good place for a Human Rights protest, though. [img]biggrin.gif" border="0[/img] [/b]
I agree, N. Beltov. How/will this museum deal with Palestine. I believe this issue was raised from the get-go and has yet to be addressed. If it's a Holocaust museum, then call it that. The whole notion of a 'human rights' museum is deeply problematic, unless it honestly seeks input from a wide range of groups across Canada. As a publicly-funded museum, it should.
Wed, 2007-05-16 19:39
#23
quote:
Originally posted by pencil-skirt:
I don't exactly agree with your analysis.
What analysis? I introduced the subject of the Museum of Human Rights being erected in Winnipeg and gave some history.
quote:
I find that totally abhorrent and am shocked you would cite Lifesite as a valid criticism of the Museum.
You're offended by Lifesite? What a coincidence; so am I. In fact I would venture to say that the large majority of people on this site will find it offensive. As offensive as Lifesite devotees will find Susan Howard-Azzeh's letter.
That, it seems to me, is the problem with museums and with this type of "human rights" museum in particular. All parties must have a say in multi-cultural Canada and it is highly unlikely that any cogent narrative can be agreed upon in a Canadian wide context.
Tue, 2007-06-19 11:46
#24
A quick update on this topic. A senate committee just recently discussed the case of an exhibit called "An Enduring Controversy," concluding that [url=http://www.cbc.ca/canada/ottawa/story/2007/06/13/museum-070613.html]The War museum should change display that riled vets.[/url]
quote:
Veterans who claim a display at the Canadian War Museum makes them look like war criminals have misinterpreted it, but the panel should be changed anyway, says a Senate subcommittee on veterans affairs. ...The subcommittee headed by Senator Joseph Day consulted four historians, read letters from veterans and history buffs, and ruled that the panel had been misinterpreted and is the subject of "clear misunderstanding."
However, Day said, the museum has a public responsibility to change the display.
It seems that Veterans argue that it makes them look like war criminals.
On CBC’s Ontario this week, one veteran says that the exhibit devalues the Canadian war effort, saying that it plays up the havoc wreaked upon such a military effort (the German casualties and the many who were left displaced). He does suggest that the balance needs to be restored to this panel, though he also says that nobody denies that there is a controversy over the raid.
The feature also begged a question of whether or not the Canadian War Museum should be removed from the power of the Museum of Civilization, and become a product of the Ministry of Veteran Affairs. Any thoughts?
Tue, 2007-06-19 15:02
#25
Hmm, gee, an exhibit that showcases the killing of thousands upon thousands of civilians during wartime makes those who perpetrated it "look like war criminals" does it?
I wonder why that is?
Tue, 2007-06-19 15:27
#26
quote:
Originally posted by jrose:
[b]
The feature also begged a question of whether or not the Canadian War Museum should be removed from the power of the Museum of Civilization, and become a product of the Ministry of Veteran Affairs. Any thoughts?
[/b]
I believe that Canadian War Museum should remain under the control of the Museum of Civilization however both museums and other organization such Veteran Affairs, Parks Canada should work together in their education of the Canadian public about all parts of Canadian history.
There should be insight and improvements made by specialists of Canadian history outside these departments.
[ 16 July 2007: Message edited by: Webgear ]
Tue, 2007-06-19 15:35
#27
quote:
I don't say that lightly. I say it because it's true. It's what soldiers do.
That pretty much means all soldiers BCG.
All nations have had bad soldiers, all nations WILL have bad soldiers, because humans come in all flavours. The focus on 'us good them bad' has a place when fighting the war (in a purely propoganda morale sense) but has no place anywhere, or anywhen else.
That said, its NOT what soldiers do, its what some soldiers do and shouldnt. And it should never ever be tolerated. IMO Nuremburg should have included victors on trial, not just the losers. And a shoddy unjust trial it was anyway. If they were going to do it without justice, they should have just shot them out of hand, like Goering expected.
Mon, 2007-07-16 11:40
#28
[url=http://www.rabble.ca/rpn/episode.shtml?x=60779]Some more interesting information, from the Rabble Podcast Network.[/url]
quote:
Israel Asper created a multinational media empire, CanWest Global. He was also a prominent figure in the pro-Israel lobby in Canada.Less well-known were Asper's efforts to create a museum to perpetuate his political outlook. This project was uncompleted at his death in 2003 but efforts to open a museum have continued.
James Kafieh is executive secretary of the coalition, Canadians for Genocide Education. They are opposed to the idea of a holocaust museum focusing only on the genocide of European Jews.
Wed, 2007-09-12 11:37
#29
[url=http://thetyee.ca/News/2007/09/12/MuseumEthics/]Exhibiting Conflicts: Whose truth gets told in today's museums?[/url]
From the Tyee
Mon, 2019-07-01 10:43
#30
Canadian War Museum Displays 51 of George W Bush's Propagandistic Paintings
"So why are some of these portraits about to be unveiled at the Canadian War Museum of all places?"
Because it is an official Canadian tradition to honour the works of great American war criminals that defend 'our way of life' and 'the rules based international order.'