The more important Chinese NEws seems to be this:
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/03/22/china-reorganise-propaganda-effort...
ISeen in the context of the attack on Journalism in the US, this can only be seen as part of the rise of Fascisim being observed glabally. I key attribute of Fascism is control of the media by the State and melding it to propaganda objectives.
I think China can absorb an international economic downturn much more easily than the US can.
Probably. The populace hasn't really had time to become overly accustomed to prosperity. And they know they can grumble quietly, but I wouldn't foresee any mass pushback.
I wouldn’t look too far into this.
The Chinese and US markets are in a slight transition and this move from the US was probably orchestrated/conceived well in advance.
China wants to strengthen domestic demand, the US wants to strengthen domestic production. Throw in the withdrawing US colonial foreign policy and the North Korean sudden desire to throw away nuclear capacity that they went out of their way for decades to achieve.
So, in other words, China's wisdom will lead us all down the Shining Path?
You're remarkably restrained in your praise for China here, so I'm confused what you mean.
Markets Fall on Trade War Fears
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2018/03/24/trad-m24.html
"Fears were voiced that the measures could set off a global trade war..."
So, in other words, China's wisdom will lead us all down the Shining Path?
You're remarkably restrained in your praise for China here, so I'm confused what you mean.
i take it your first sentence is sarcasm and your second is an actual question.
So far from what I’ve seen of Trump, I don’t think he’s a war pig. He may very well be a womanizer, sexist racist and probably another good half dozen other things but I don’t think he’s a war pig.
Now he did make some way out there comments about how the US was going to bring the world to the brink of destruction, but I rather judge a politician by their actions and not by their talk.
I really believe that Trump and Xi Jin Ping see eye to eye and are on the same page. The big talk is for the gossiping paranoids that are ready to jump out any window on a moments notice. The paranoids will then make the fake trade war look good so that the red neck racists can feel like the white man is still winning.
US Demands China Reconsider 'Catastrophic' Ban on Importing Foreign Garbage and Recyclables
"Amid fears of a politically devastating trade war between the US and China, Washington has urged Beijing not to implement the ban on US garbage and recyclable materials that Asia's giant threatened to impose..."
Chinese Bombers and Fighter Jets Conduct Drills in South China Sea & Western Pacific
"The news of the drills comes just a day after the USS Mustin came within 12 nautical miles of Mischief Reef in the Spratly Islands archipelago in the South China Sea..."
Kim Jong-un & Xi Jinping Held Talks in Beijing
"North Korean leader Kim Jong un and his Chinese counterpart Xi Jinping have held talks in Beijing, in Kim's first foreign trip since taking office. Kim's wife reportedly accompanied him. Both Chinese and North Korean state media have confirmed that Kim is on a state visit to China. Kim arrived at the invitation of the Chinese president and stayed for an unofficial four-day visit. The visit comes ahead of the highly anticipated talks between Kim and US President Donald Trump, which are expected to be held by the end of May..."
US v China: In Washington, Hyper-Hawks Center Stage
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/03/26/100783/
"Today, the inevitable arrived. With Trump's declaration of trade war on China - which POTUS seems to relish - Washington has initiated the first head-on confrontation between itself and Beijing. China, of course, is prepared for the worst, on a much broader front than just trade..."
GT Editorial: Russian Diplomat Expulsions Signal Crude Side of Western Intention
http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/1095361.shtml
"On March 26, the US, Canada and several European Union countries expelled Russian diplomats from their respective foreign embassies and consulates in retaliation against Russia's alleged poisoning of former double-agent Sergei Skripal and his daughter. As of this writing, 19 countries, including 15 EU member states, have shown their support to Great Britain by enforcing such measures. Now, the majority of those who support Britain's one-sided conclusions happen to be members of NATO and the EU, while others stood behind the UK due to long-standing relations.
The fact that major Western powers can gang up and 'sentence' a foreign country without following the same procedures other countries abide by and according to the basic tenets of international law is chilling.
During the Cold War, not one Western nation would have dared to make such a provocation and yet today it is carried out with unrestrained ease. Such actions are nothing more than a form of Western bullying that threatens global peace and justice. What Russia is experiencing right now could serve as a reflection of how other non-Western nations can expect to be treated in the not-so-distant future..."
The fact that major Western powers can gang up and 'sentence' a foreign country without following the same procedures other countries abide by and according to the basic tenets of international law is chilling.
So... governments have no right to expel a diplomat? That's a basic tenet of international law?
During the Cold War, not one Western nation would have dared to make such a provocation and yet today it is carried out with unrestrained ease.
Because then, as now, it's a basic tenet of international law??
On a scale of "yes" or "no". Not looking for what The Saker has to share.
The fact that major Western powers can gang up and 'sentence' a foreign country without following the same procedures other countries abide by and according to the basic tenets of international law is chilling.
So... governments have no right to expel a diplomat? That's a basic tenet of international law?
During the Cold War, not one Western nation would have dared to make such a provocation and yet today it is carried out with unrestrained ease.
Because then, as now, it's a basic tenet of international law??
On a scale of "yes" or "no". Not looking for what The Saker has to share.
[quote=NDPP]
But I wasn't asking anyone from "globaltimes". I was asking you.
Is it a basic tenet of international law that a country shall not expel another country's diplomat? Asking for a friend.
You guys are getting sidetracked. This is the China thread, not Russia.
I don’t see any relationship between the Korean leaders recent visit with Xi Jin Ping and an accusation from Britain towards Russia???
this recent historic visit between two communist heads of state is very important!
i suspect Xi Jin Ping desperately wants North Korea to make peace!!! Actually I think all 6 parties want to see a peaceful de escalation of the arms build up from North Korea.
China Korea and Japan will be the biggest winners and Xi Jin Ping will probably give China a new international image a huge boost!
this recent historic visit between two communist heads of state is very important!
DPRK doesn't consider itself a Communist country.
[quote=WWWTT]
You guys are getting sidetracked. This is the China thread, not Russia.
this recent historic visit between two communist heads of state is very important!
[quote=NDPP]
A view from China, as expressed in this Global Times editorial, under the circumstances of a full-court Western propaganda offensive against its closest international trading partner, and exposing the dubious and objectionable nature of the orchestrated demonization campaign against Russia is very much a suitable posting here.
"What Russia is experiencing right now could serve as a reflection of how other non-Western nations can expect to be treated in the not-so-distant future..."
As for the importance of the visit of the North Korean leader to China, I agree with you. It is indeed of great importance. Which is why I posted on it in #59...
Sorry NDPP but we are going to have to agree that we disagree about the thread drift.
WARNING more thread drift!
I do not believe that the obvious western BS demonization of Russia has anything to do with China's surging economy and welcomed open foreign policy. I believe it has to do with their surprisingly advanced weapons programs, their open strong support for Iran and North Korea. And possibly the huge military trade between Russia/India. Should also mention that Venezuela is also a recipient of advanced Russian military punch!
North Korea's super ICBM stats are very very similar to the Russian Satan 2 (RS-28 Sarmat)!!! I suspect Russia is helping the enemies of NATO through advanced military exchanges to keep NATO in check. And this probably has the blessing of BRICS, Vietnam, Cuba, Indonesia, Thailand and probably another 40-50 nations in Africa, South America and the rest of the world.
Not saying that this isn't a good subject to discuss, and it is slightly related to China and the recent Kim Jong-un historic visit to China, but more suited for the Russia thread or a stand alone thread
Yesterday on CCTV4, Chinese government will be imposing tarrifs on 128 different US agricultural product imports. And soy bean is so far not on the list but is being dangled as a threat to increasing tariffs if the US doesn’t ease the tariffs they imposed on Chinese imports.
This is great news for Canadian agriculture!
It would be great for Canadian farmers and cash crop farmers especially if the US is hit with soy bean tariffs!
Soybeans are on the list. Watch NAFTA negotiations get easier.
US Stocks Crash as Fear of All Out Trade War Spooks Investors
"Wall Street saw heavy losses in early trading on Wednesday after Beijing announced retailiatory tariffs on American imports. On Wednesday, the Chinese Finance Ministry said Beijing would hit 106 American products including soybeans, automobiles and chemicals with a 25% tariff worth $50 billion. The move came as a response to similar US levies on Chinese goods..."
There seems to be a few differences in our sources for info here. Soybeans is a huge export crop for both Canada and the US. One of the fastest growing (if not the fastest growing) export crops Canada has and more provinces are now planting high quality hardy varieties that produce well in colder climates like Manitoba Quebec etc etc. I know it’s a big crop in southern Ontario. And if China is indeed going to tax US soybeans then this is going to put Hundreds of millions extra into the pockets of Canadian farmers!!!! Who knows, maybe even an extra billion over the next 5 years? I can’t really explain it or understand the workings of it but I get this impression that when Canadian farmers do good, Canadians are way better off.
However this Chinese tax on US soybeans is going to reall piss off rural midwestern US and the farmers in there are going to give Trump a fuckin earful that I don’t think he will be able to tolerate.
I still want to see more evidence soybeans is going to get taxed. Stuff like wine pork auto parts etc etc won’t have to same political impact as soybeans. Not in my opinion anyways.
Why the Soybean Could Be China's Trump Card in the Trade War
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/soybean-chinas-trump-card-trade-war-17313...
A 25% tariff on US soybeans. China's opening shot across the Yanqui bow is right into a GOP electoral sweet-spot. Ouch!
Ok then it looks like Trump is going to get a lot of flack in this trade war. This soybean tax is going ahead from the Chinese government.
Great news for Canadian farmers! Real bad news for the US mid western farmers!
I can see Trump changing his tone in say a few months? If Trump doesn't give in to China, then I doubt a republican will see the white house 2020. I wonder if Trump doesn't back down, if he will increase widen tarrifs on Chinese goods. And if so how would the Chinese further escalate?
Either way, the Chinese are winning this trade war up to this point!
Trump Threatens China With $100bn More in Tariffs in Response to 'Unfair Retaliation'
"Donald Trump has instructed the US Trade Representative to consider slapping China with an additional $100 billion in tariffs, accusing China of engaging in 'unfair retaliation' instead of backing down to Washington's pressure. Trump's call for new measures against China comes a day after White House economic adviser Larry Kudlow said he expected that the US and China would work out their trade differences. 'I believe that the Chinese will back down and will play ball,' Kudlow commented."
With Anti-Russia Hysteria Rampant, Beijing Reminds US About Ties Between Russia & China
"I am visiting Russia as the new defense minister of China to show the world the high level of our bilateral relations and firm determination of our armed forces to strengthen strategic cooperation,' Wei Fenghe told his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu. But the Chinese official was just warming up.
'The Chinese side has come to let the Americans know about the close ties between the Russian and Chinese armed forces, especially in this situation,' he said. 'We've come to support you.'
Wei arguably broke with polite Chinese diplomatic protocol which is typically more reserved in its public assessments, by openly mentioning 'the Americans' with regards to China-Russia military cooperation. This remark suggests a lot about Beijing's current mood towards Washington and the West, and nothing that could be considered positive.
'China and Russia are declaring closer ties not only due to their previous good cooperation but also because of changes in the international environment, Gao Fei, a professor of Russian studies at the China Foreign Affairs University told the Global Times. 'Western countries are putting political pressure on Russia and the US is provoking China into a trade war..."
Trump has just announced $100B more in import duties on China.
This is quite serious.
There are lots of global economic implications on this and potential damage to many countries including the US. I figure people can read that everywhere..
There is another issue here that deserves be acknowledged. Let's set politics aside for a moment and look at the underlying issue.
China is a wealthy country only in the aggregate and not by population. China's attempts to gain in trade is a stated attempt to bring back enough economic progress to lift standards of living in China. The government there has two significant policies: First they want to increase Chinese wages and use this trade economy to do that. Second, the Chinese government has a stated goal of providing universal healthcare which it cannot presently afford. The US can afford universal healthcare but chooses not to.
China is a country that has recently been extremely poor attempting to rise above that. You may disagree with some tactics and many government policies (as I do) but that is the context of this trade war. Not long ago China was a recipient of significant aid from the world community. It is using trade and manufacturing to turn this around.
A trade war by the richest country in the world with the aggressiveness Trump is showing has to be seen in this context. It also must be seen in the context of historic exploitation forced on China by European and American aggression.
People here know that I am very willing to criticize the goverment of China and I want to see that country to do well. The Chinese space station coming down this last week is a reminder of an ancient civilization, one of the world's greatest in antiquity, that has managed to return itself to the forefront of technology. This is truly remarkable and has never happened before in human history to this degree. This country has in living memory gone from famine to become a significant economic power, but is still struggling with low per-capita income. Targetting it in this way is unseemly.
The world that sent food aid to China within the last hundred years should celebrate much of the progress China is making. The argument that China is getting more than its share out of the global economy given GDP/capita and history of being exploited by other countries is a false one.
It would take some time for the world to repay what it owes China. No aplogies or reparations have been made to address the scale of what Europe and America did to China in the last two hundred years.
It is necessary to see Trump's action in the light of colonialism, even where we may also be uncomfortable with some specific actions China may take.
@ NDPP
interesting link!
I believe North Korea is now going to get pulled into this. I can see the optimism of say just a few weeks ago in rekindling peace talks of any sort now vaporizing real fast. Perhaps if the tariffs continue, there will be more missile test?
Boeing in the US and the US aerospace industry in general is going down real soon me thinks
again, I still believe China is in the drivers seat and is winning the trade war and will win!
so far everything is playing into China strengthening their high tech and domestic markets. This should help prop the communist parties new position for pay equality.
Also still believe this was pre planned/orchestrated. We’ll see what North Korea does.
@ NDPP
interesting link!
I believe North Korea is now going to get pulled into this. I can see the optimism of say just a few weeks ago in rekindling peace talks of any sort now vaporizing real fast. Perhaps if the tariffs continue, there will be more missile test?
Boeing in the US and the US aerospace industry in general is going down real soon me thinks
again, I still believe China is in the drivers seat and is winning the trade war and will win!
so far everything is playing into China strengthening their high tech and domestic markets. This should help prop the communist parties new position for pay equality.
Also still believe this was pre planned/orchestrated. We’ll see what North Korea does.
I think China will win in part becuase this is not a trade war between China and the US but one between the US and the world.
There are trade disagreements between China and other countries but there is no apparent desire for a trade war.
While Canada's interests are more closely tied to the US and damage to the US will cause difficulty for Canada. The historic context of colonialism means that those who oppose imperialism and greater equality have an interest in the side of China in this situation.
This is not political right-left either, in my opinion, becuase protectionism is a position from across the spectrum and there are legitimate reasons to be concerned with open trade as we have it now. Some of Trump's rhetoric is not as wrong as the bullying that comes with it. Some of it could even be respected if it came with any sincerity. However, there are reasons not to abruptly try to damage another country and to consider the longer history with that country.
While I have reservations about trade agreements, I also do not see these relationships as entirely win-lose in the way Trump lays out even when there are problems with the relationships and the agreements.
All that said there is a strength as well as some weaknesses to the Chinese economy and Trump may find out that China and the US are not one more dependent on the other. With Trump's bullying, China may find itself ultimately with more partners to rely on than the US, leaving the US more vulnerable than the Chinese.
I am sure that it will not be lost on many countries that it is the Chinese now who are more politcally more interested in sustainability at the national level. Countries wanting to engage in saving the world from environmental disaster have more to discuss with China now than the US.
If NAFTA falls through and the US slaps tariffs on us,I hope Canada joins China in bankrupting and crippling this decaying Empire.
I hope the Orange Moron tariffs everybody and everybody retaliates just like China.
When fascism comes to America,it will be wrapped in the flag and holding a cross. The Orange Fascist is going to destroy America and his sycophants are going to follow him down the drain. This is the Century where the US falls...and falls hard. I love it.
Chinese Ambassador Calls For Canada's Cooperation in US Trade Fight
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/chinese-ambassador-canada-trade-1.4609078
"...Lu said China is not seeking a trade war and called for a resolution through 'dialogue and negotiation'. The current climate makes it the ideal time to move ahead on free trade discussions between Canada and China, Lu said. China is willing to initiate the process with Canada at any time'.
So far Canada has remained neutral in the stand off between the world's two biggest economies."
Neutral on the American side.
A Conversation With Ajit Singh
https://blackagendareport.com/independent-journalist-corner-conversation...
"My writing about China aims to provide accessible and timely analysis of the country to address the severe misunderstandings about China amongst Western leftists and progressives and to combat the demonization which China is subjected to by US and Western imperialism. On a near-daily basis, the corporate owned media promotes hostility towards China with hawkish, sensationalist and dishonest reporting..."
Good read thanks for the link NDPP!
However it ignores the recent CPC congresional convention where Xi JinPing made a staggering 3.5hr speech, in it states the new direction of the CPC tackling income inequality.
So, a "conversation" with an Indian guy, on a site called "blackagendareport", to discuss China, for the purposes of actually discussing the "Western" "left".
Hey Mr. Magoo, who gives a ratts ass about the ethnic background of the person being interviewed? Or the name of the site?
Carefull brother, you’re bordering on making a racist implications
[quote=Mr. Magoo]
So, a "conversation" with an Indian guy, on a site called "blackagendareport", to discuss China, for the purposes of actually discussing the "Western" "left".
[quote=NDPP]
Yes, and exactly right they do so and many more to come. People all over the world are having discussions about 'the Western left' and what is to be done etc...
People all over the world are having discussions about 'the Western left' and what is to be done etc...
But when you have that conversation with yourself, over and over here on babble, how many "real" leftists does that count as?
So, a "conversation" with an Indian guy, on a site called "blackagendareport", to discuss China, for the purposes of actually discussing the "Western" "left".
Well, as far as I can tell, the guy is Canadian, and "blackagendareport" is a US-based website, so I'd say they have as much claim as anyone to being part of the "western left".
Though, apart from his nationality, the guy does seem to want to portray himself as a cheerleader for all things Chinese. And I'm not sure about all of his points. Arguing that the post-1978 reforms didn't constitute an embrace of captialism, he writes...
If these reforms had constituted the overthrow of socialism, one would expect to see the signs of a counter-revolution: dismantling of the socialist state, a significant reduction in Chinese living standards, and China’s subordination to imperialism. In Eastern Europe, capitalist counter-revolution led to the greatest population loss in modern history and increasing Western domination.
I don't know how familiar this guy is with the history of that era, but Chinese support for US imperialism continued for over a decade after 1978, most notoriously with the ongoing support for the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, which included the invasion of Vietnam in 1979.
Of course, I guess if the Chinese were willing participants in all that, it might not count as "subordination to imperialism" per se.
The Historic Background of China's Perception of the West
Thread: How West's betrayal of China in Versailles after WWI led to Long Chinese Revolution that shaped Chinese perception of the West today...
https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/992467817319485440
Fascinating view of this little-known history...
Bump
Ecological Civilization - Xi vs Trump
https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/05/10/ecological-civilization-xi-or-tr...
"Just as Trump's xenophobic vision spells potential danger for the world, so could it be that Xi's ecological vision could offer a glimpse to a hopeful future?"
They’ll ask you to run for governor or senator or any office and on it goes, as you are labeled the great savior of all time… the Noble Peace Prize yours for the taking…
The Noble Peace Prize?
I wouldn't rag on a babbler for that, but a "journalist"? Or their "editor"?
Anyhoo, I'll be as happy as the rest of the planet to hear that China will no longer be burning coal to make tea, or whatever. But NDPP, why work WWWTT's corner? His statue of Xi is almost halfway carved already. Why not just make yourself useful and hand him chisels?
LOL! Thanks for the chuckle Mr. Magoo. But Xi Jin Ping is the real deal and like I said before, he’s probably the best politician/statesman/diplomat in the world right now and will probably go down in the top 5 for the 21st century.
But that’s how the Communist Party of China rolls, they get results from putting the interests of the people above the corporations. I want to say that in the west, the people serve the corporations, in China the corporations serve the people!
But that’s how the Communist Party of China rolls, they get results from putting the interests of the people above the corporations. I want to say that in the west, the people serve the corporations, in China the corporations serve the people!
That must be super. For the people, I mean.
Well, one can say the GDP of China has increased by quite a bit over the years. Back in 1980, the GDP per capita of China and India were equal. Now the China GDP/p/c is more than double that of India.
In USD, in 1980 the China GDP/p/c was $312. In 2017, it was $8,836. You can add that up whichever way you like, it is still a considerable increase, and as noted above, it is now more than twice that of India (since they were equal in 1980).
I'm not going to speculate on how this happened, nor on how equal the distribution of that GDP may be. I will say that it would be difficult to have such an increase without the locals reaping some of the benefits.
But that’s how the Communist Party of China rolls, they get results from putting the interests of the people above the corporations. I want to say that in the west, the people serve the corporations, in China the corporations serve the people!That must be super. For the people, I mean.
I personally know many people in China who are doing well and are leading productive lives. After all immigration from China to Canada is dropping! According to the Canadian stats I’m reading.
Oh there’s dirt poor people in China, just like Canada. But the greener grass they have their eyes set on is in China, not Canada.
After all immigration from China to Canada is dropping!
Is there a corresponding INCREASE in immigration from Canada to China?
If we don't get immigrants from China, we will get them from somewhere else. The more the merrier. Someone has to pay for my pension.
I like new Canadians too.
I'm just wondering whether Canadians are saying to themselves "maybe it's time to emigrate to China!".
Certainly everyone who doesn't want corporations standing on their neck in jackboots might want to consider China, where I'm told that corporations work for the people. Gotta be better than spending the rest of their lives moaning about how wrong Canada's got it, yes?
Magoo you are just so fucking childish it is unreal. No conversation is immune from your stupid idiotic inane comments that are obviously designed to poke at people you don't agree with rather than have a discussion about the issues.
Ah. What's the "issue" du jour?
I thought it was how Chinese corporations work for the people?
I would have thought you'd be ecstatic to hear that (?!)
They exist for THE PEOPLE, kropotkin.
ed'd to ask:
1. are Canadians actually emigrating to China, and if not, why not? WWWTT has been making it clear for a while that China is totally awesome, and their government is totally awesome, and if their corporations work for the people then that's just gravy on the cake!
2. I've never had the sense that you care for Canadian corporations -- you can say, if I got that wrong -- so isn't it at least tempting to move to China, where the corporations will work for YOU? If you'd rather stay here and bemoan... well, why? That's like saying "I don't want to move under that awning; I'd rather gripe about the rain", yes?
After all immigration from China to Canada is dropping!Well, fewer immigrants FROM China might demonstrate that the standard-of-living in China is improving relative to what it had been. But a continued paucity of immigrants from Canada TO China might demonstrate that China still hasn't surpassed Canada.
Is there a corresponding INCREASE in immigration from Canada to China?
THIS FORMATTED BADLY. I'M REPLYING TO MAGOO'S QUOTE, AT THE BOTTOM THERE.
